Reflections

[The7DeadlyVenomz]

Armageddon is not the real world. I don't want it to be the real world.

While I agree with RL insults and racial slurs being removed in place of locale-appropriate insults and slurs, I have no desire to see world-appropriate racial prejudices removed from the game. Consent is bad enough: when I started playing this game, "consent" was assumed because you were warned about the adult nature of this game before you logged in.

Then people started being offended by things they had been warned about before they logged in. And we changed, and we had multiple layers of consent and content-watering-down. And maybe that was alright, but I can't pretend I like it.

We're in the midst of a moment in RL where we might manage to effect some real change in the way some racial things are handled, and I pray to God we don't waste it. I am happy that issues are being addressed in RL. I do not want that to happen to Armageddon, though, when it comes to softening the world even more.

I know people are soft these days, and more culturally aware and sensitive and such, and that's great, but Armageddon isn't supposed to reflect the real world. Armageddon is supposed to be a NC-17 horror show, not a PG-13 fright-flick.

Incidentally, I say this as a 41 year-old black man.

[triste]

👏 well 👏 said 👏

[Heade]

Totally agree.

Also, I miss you 7DV. You should pop into discord voice with us if you see us in there.

[Pew Pew]

Yes! THANK YOU for saying this.

NC-17, not PG-13. Consent is given upon account and character generation.

[Cabooze]

#No"OOC Consent?"required

Thank you for voicing this.

[mansa]

In my opinion,

ArmageddonMUD is a social game where all players roleplay fantasy characters in a harsh desert world setting. 

There's written and unwritten rules that each player understands when we play out the character's lives in the game:
do not cheat,
do not use out-of-character knowledge to benefit your character in game,
do not use knowledge from your previous characters to benefit your current chatacter,
do not hold grudges from situations that happened to your previous character,
do not tell other players which characters you play,
do not use the GDB conversations to influence your reaction to characters in game,

...But it's still fundamentally a social game, and we share the stories of the characters we play with our fellow players.



I think that because we play the game with others, we should consider other players fundamental enjoyment of the game, and as a collective group make decisions of what sort of stories we want to tell together.



And on a serious note, the hashtag no consent required is fucking creepy.

[Is Friday]

I think there is a serious lack of self-awareness or maturity amongst those players who are pushing for a "no consent" policy. There are other games which espouse such rules and they are exactly as you imagine them to be, given such an extreme environment. No, we have consent rules so that we can enjoy the largest population possible while still catering to a niche and "hardcore" roleplaying experience. Coded actions do not require consent.

Putting another player in a situation in which they must roleplay something they personally feel uncomfortable with is just going to drive away more players from an already declining population. It's inconsiderate and power hungry in the least appealing way for women, in particular.

[seidhr]

Please don't use enormous font in threads.  Thanks.

[triste]

Agreed seidhr.

To be clear, OP never said no consent. They said consent was understood to be given on account creation because the game was understood to be NC-17. So OP has stated that he has always been pro-consent, but in a clear/simple/direct way, not a political/annoying/noisy way.

[Is Friday]

Agreed seidhr.

To be clear, OP never said no consent. They said consent was understood to be given on account creation because the game was understood to be NC-17. So OP has stated that he has always been pro-consent, but in a clear/simple/direct way, not a political/annoying/noisy way.

I'm pretty sure my comment and mansa's about "no consent" is referring to cabooze and others' posts, not OP -- to clarify.

[triste]

Agreed seidhr.

To be clear, OP never said no consent. They said consent was understood to be given on account creation because the game was understood to be NC-17. So OP has stated that he has always been pro-consent, but in a clear/simple/direct way, not a political/annoying/noisy way.

I'm pretty sure my comment and mansa's about "no consent" is referring to cabooze and others' posts, not OP -- to clarify.

Yup -- just distancing good, sane people who agree with OP from that.

[Saellyn]

Attacking our sanity without understanding our position is pretty unnecessary. Don't do that.

[triste]

Attacking our sanity without understanding our position is pretty unnecessary. Don't do that.

Do you prefer IsFriday's blanket "these people are immature?"

[Saellyn]

The idea of #NoConsent is not to force people to roleplay scenes, necessarily, but to have to deal with the consequences of living and playing in a very harsh, unforgiving world. That's all it is.

[triste]

The idea of #NoConsent is not to force people to roleplay scenes, necessarily, but to have to deal with the consequences of living and playing in a very harsh, unforgiving world. That's all it is.

As a victim of rape who has every reason to scream "Oh no, rape is scary, I don't want to see it in a game," I will say #NoConsent is agreeable and possible if you always allow a FTB. Anyone uncomfortable with something extreme without code implications should be allowed to ask for an FTB or quit OOC if they need to, done and done. And ask for explicit consent once per account creation [and when the policy starts for existing accounts]. Then the #NoConsent idea works.

I fully agree with OP that I dislike watering down content in his words, or censoring content in my words. But it's sometimes necessary to protect people. Do not restrict the thing from happening in a way that hurts plotlines, but allow people to FTB if they need.

[triste]

And last note is #NoConsent is a disgusting hashtag because it's too reductive and easy to misread. It's causing people to freak out. Consider better marketing, the hashtag I prefer is the one implied by the slogan of the game #MurderCorruptionBetrayal. Typically R rated, not PG-13 rated topics.

[tapas]

Attacking our sanity without understanding our position is pretty unnecessary. Don't do that.

Yes. Taking such a poor position will have us question your sanity.

[Heade]

And last note is #NoConsent is a disgusting hashtag because it's too reductive and easy to misread. It's causing people to freak out. Consider better marketing, the hashtag I prefer is the one implied by the slogan of the game #MurderCorruptionBetrayal. Typically R rated, not PG-13 rated topics.

The point of the hashtag is to get people to take notice of it, because when you try to have a civil discussion about the topics that lead to the #NoConsent, the opposition to those thoughtful and civil discussions is quite often reductive and inflammatory in response, sidetracking the discussion by using Ad Hominem attacks and character assassination instead of addressing the civilly discussed topic.

#NoConsent is a simple way to fire back at reductive counterattacks at thoughtful and civil discourse, and I feel like its reductive nature has done more to bring attention to these issues and opinions than any wall of text post that could have taken its place.

It has lead to hours of civil discussion and debate in discord voice, and if we get to a place where we can maturely discuss the issues surrounding the #NoConcent meme on the GDB without reductive backlash, then that will be a 100% victory for #NoConsent, even with consent in the game.

[Cabooze]

@triste and isfriday, if you really want to attack my character and question my sanity or self awareness, you should first reflect on your own. Being so volatile in your reactions to something you find obscene doesn't speak well for your own character, so don't come at me sideways because I decided to voice my opinion.

I'd like to reduce the need in order to perform tasks which break my immersion. If suddenly I need to: "ooc consent for x?", I lose a lot of my immersion. I believe if consent was implied upon logging in, and you are the one which does not want to participate, you should be the one that OOCs that you would like the scene to fade to black, or simply remove yourself from the situation by moving rooms.

Hence my support of the OP. Hence my very specific #No"OOC Consent?"required. You're the one that decided to read what I said in the most harmful light possible.

Attacking our sanity without understanding our position is pretty unnecessary. Don't do that.

Yes. Taking such a poor position will have us question your sanity.

No, your position is poor, because my opinion dictates as much. Oh, wait, I should stop using your logic.

[triste]

Cabooze, Saellyn, whoever else -- I agree with you in every regard but the hashtag #NoConsent, which is just gross.

OP's premise is by knowing the game is NOT PG-13, and is for adults, we just ask for consent once on account creation. Bebop also wanted to make Armageddon 18+. I didn't agree with her at first, but after seeing how shit has devolved I now agree with Bebop and 7DV's stance here.

But for the love of kitty cats come up with a better hashtag people who want to get laid consensually can get behind.

[tapas]

The fact that this conversation is even happening is bonkers.

No, consent rules are not changing. Deal with it.

[Heade]

The fact that this conversation is even happening is bonkers.

No, consent rules are not changing. Deal with it.

Are you sure? Do you have the power to enforce that? Are you a staffer?

My father once told me not to let my mouth write a check my ass can't cash.

[tapas]

The fact that this conversation is even happening is bonkers.

No, consent rules are not changing. Deal with it.

Are you sure? Do you have the power to enforce that? Are you a staffer?

My father once told me not to let my mouth write a check my ass can't cash.

It's not happening.

[Heade]

The fact that this conversation is even happening is bonkers.

No, consent rules are not changing. Deal with it.

Are you sure? Do you have the power to enforce that? Are you a staffer?

My father once told me not to let my mouth write a check my ass can't cash.

It's not happening.

How do you know? Maybe it is.

[triste]

The fact that this conversation is even happening is bonkers.

No, consent rules are not changing. Deal with it.

Are you sure? Do you have the power to enforce that? Are you a staffer?

My father once told me not to let my mouth write a check my ass can't cash.

It's not happening.

How do you know? Maybe it is.

The longer a tautological argument goes on the more I giggle.