Author Topic: Content and creation  (Read 4771 times)

JustAnotherGuy

  • Posts: 2085
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #125 on: May 20, 2020, 02:34:21 PM »
I could see some sort of randomized features, but this is primarily and role playing game, where the focus is on role playing primarily.  I think some of the better features to work on is maybe moving or adjustable dens during different seasons, kinda like how some of the tribal camps move around.  Maybe work more on the AI of the creatures in the game like how certain big things move around the grasslands.  In any case, make the world seem more living and breathing, rather than static and same as it has been for many years.  I realize there has been updates here and there, but take the existing and improve upon what is there rather than building new.
Or you might get me.
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mansa

  • Posts: 9851
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #126 on: May 20, 2020, 03:38:31 PM »
To be a successful multiplayer online game, we should hit all the points on the Bartle's taxonomy of player types.  There should be something for everyone, killers, socializes, achievers, and explorers.

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We have ruins, battle sites, outposts, research/dig sites and so on that would explain a potential location for a "dungeon", be it above or below ground.

Great!  You got the concept of the idea - a semi-randomly generated location that appears and disappears in the desert wastes, using the 'enter' command, that can lead to a small/large area to explore.  Incentive to explore can be resources, treasure, knowledge, nothing, or whatever.  Maybe have a 'guardian spirit' type of MOB to defeat, and they drop a map and cool looking rare boots.  Have the explorers come back and have to hire a group to go back out to kill.

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Why? There's one group or two out there that needed <thing> and they made the thing. Beyond that, it'd be hard to game-world justify ....  If IC actions or <event> causes such to be doable/realistic, I'm game. Who knows? Some ungodly huge salt worm decides to go on vacation to a silt island? Boom - Tunnel.

Why.

I sometimes feel the game lacks some of these small adventure type quests that bored players could go on.  It's the fantasy adventure aspect of the RPG genre that sometimes gets missed out, because it requires time, energy, and work to set up.  With enough semi-randomness to it, any player could be out in the wastes and discover something new, giving the players another thing to do when they feel like they've done it all.

Why.

I sometimes feel that introducing new things to ArmageddonMUD is hampered by restrictions to a theme that shouldn't be as rigid in the fantasy setting.  I'd love to have new races pop up, cities be destroyed and rebuilt & then destroyed again, roads to be changed and modified.  I feel that some of the justifications that are required for changes should just be simply as because magick or because the wind blew or an earthquake opened up a new passageway through the mountains.  We're writing our own story, we don't need to align 100% with some predetermined DUNE or DARK SUN worldbuilding rules.

Why.

I wants it.    ;)
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 04:36:10 PM by mansa »
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Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #127 on: May 20, 2020, 04:27:22 PM »
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Clan compounds/apartments overhaul.

I'll be honest and say the ability for this sort of reworking has been largely spoiled by certain witnessed behaviour. It's not a one off case where we've seen X location be hit/raided stolen from with utter disregard for the world around them. There are, pending clan/tribe, hundreds of employees/family/guards/tribals there, and a PC waltz in and steals half a warehouse worth of goods and waltz back out. Changing the build to allow this isn't something I'm very interested in. Those actually wishing to engage the game world realistically and accomplish something like this are welcome (and encouraged) to work with staff on it. It's doable, but should be extremely risky/challenging - without the check and balance in place, it leads to abuse.

On the apartment front, this is something we've been discussing. Apartments are a very different creature compared to big compounds/Houses. Finding a balance of possible to do, but with appropriate risk would be ideal. We're working on it.

This problem of twinky behavior is not likely to go away, and its not that I'm suggesting that the clan and player treasures shouldn't be fully guarded, but every other location be more open.

There should be clan warehouses that only a couple people have access to that you need to go through guard who has a key. Equally lockers should be treated like apartments where you get the key to the locker once you are in an area for members only so anyone picking the locks would get their ass kicked.

Is this a lot of work? Yes, but clan compounds contribute to helping stagnate the game. As soon as someone is in their clan compound they are cut off from the rest of the world unless someone wants to potentially be trapped or fight his way out. These places should have a lot of people coming in and out all the time. There shouldn't be a closed door at the front.

Clan compounds should be safe for their members and their things BUT spies and enemies could still be lurking just around the corner. The solution to every problem in the city shouldn't just be run into your compound, though admitted it still the very best place to head to for a member as the guards will jump to your rescue if someone openly attacks you.

As for apartments, there is risk even if doors only locked from the outside and you could flee right out the door. These are places are crime code free and have only one exit. But i think changing it from guaranteed death to potential death is enough to get many more people to use them.  Maybe some of the much MUCH more expensive places should have crime-cod in the apartments to reflect hired security.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 04:28:54 PM by Dresan »
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Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #128 on: May 20, 2020, 05:01:10 PM »
One more thought:

I still believe that the overall power level of Allanak as a whole is way to strong for the current game.

I think most idea players/staff come up with are already easily handled at the red robe+ militia level.You add black robes and even tuluk suffers loses. Luirs is a pretty good example of a place that lacks this high magical presence and  where on can still seriously feel that a new threat of gith or magick could be what leads to staff implementing the ruined luirs map it had years ago.

Yet these thrilling events in luirs would feel  like nothing more than another spider den when places next to Allanak.

The high level VNPCs mere existence(even if we don't hear/see them doing anything) just makes Allanak feel untouchable and stagnant.  Now maybe at its heart that is the true theme of allanak, but it doesn't feel very interesting and it makes the effort of staff/players to do anything that feels somewhat relevant or impactful just feel kinda meh.

Granted this is just my opinion and it could just I should just be playing in remote places or small tribes, where events or my actions can have more impact.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 05:04:32 PM by Dresan »
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9001

  • Posts: 133
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #129 on: May 20, 2020, 06:25:47 PM »
This problem of twinky behavior is not likely to go away, and its not that I'm suggesting that the clan and player treasures shouldn't be fully guarded, but every other location be more open.

There should be clan warehouses that only a couple people have access to that you need to go through guard who has a key. Equally lockers should be treated like apartments where you get the key to the locker once you are in an area for members only so anyone picking the locks would get their ass kicked.

Is this a lot of work? Yes, but clan compounds contribute to helping stagnate the game. As soon as someone is in their clan compound they are cut off from the rest of the world unless someone wants to potentially be trapped or fight his way out. These places should have a lot of people coming in and out all the time. There shouldn't be a closed door at the front.

Clan compounds should be safe for their members and their things BUT spies and enemies could still be lurking just around the corner. The solution to every problem in the city shouldn't just be run into your compound, though admitted it still the very best place to head to for a member as the guards will jump to your rescue if someone openly attacks you.

As for apartments, there is risk even if doors only locked from the outside and you could flee right out the door. These are places are crime code free and have only one exit. But i think changing it from guaranteed death to potential death is enough to get many more people to use them.  Maybe some of the much MUCH more expensive places should have crime-cod in the apartments to reflect hired security.

Compounds are already codedly easier to get into than they should be by people who aren't supposed to be there. Making them less secure is something I think would have a hugely detrimental effect on the game. I think we've already seen what happens when sneaky characters go a bit too far with apartments. The security of a clan compound is one of a few very important, real benefits that is matched (mostly) codedly to its IC value. It's an OOC and IC draw towards clans that matches these powerful organizations' place in the game. It's entirely ICly appropriate and expected for it to be a really risky endeavor to try and sneak into, and then out of a compound.

It's already too easy to just rely on the code to do this. Making it even easier is going to drive players out of clans when the inevitable abuse happens more than it already does, and perhaps even off the game. Stealthy, sneaky characters and the ways they take advantage of those skills are an important, meaningful part of the game, but they're one of the roles that has a huge potential to negatively impact the experience of other players when not played in a well-considered manner.

This idea that clan compounds being as safe as they ICly should be stagnates the game is puzzling to me when my experience is that the opposite is true. When you don't have a place that can't be looted at the whims of some skilled up stealth PC, where you can't have some expectation of talking without being overheard, suddenly long terms plots become a lot more difficult and frustrating. Failure and struggle are a part of the game but when there's too much of it, particularly due to invisible forces you can do nothing to prevent and little to nothing to engage with after the fact, it really grinds down on the motivation to put in the effort to actually do things of consequence.

Screwing over clan security further is going to hurt the potential for plots that aren't 'screw over/steal from clan X'. It'll take away a really strong reason to be in a clan that's currently reflected both IC and codedly, when so few of the IC reasons to be in a clan are reflected as strongly as they should be. It could drive players out of clans, out of that kind of group gameplay, and even potentially off the game.

The more potential for abuse there is and the more actual abuse there is, the harder it is to trust that when something does happen it was done in an appropriate manner. I think trust is a huge factor in this kind of thing on both sides. We need to be able to trust other players to be RPing responsibly when it comes to using these skills, and we need to trust other players to be reacting to stealth appropriately as well. Otherwise things get pushed towards relying more and more on the code to try and avoid other peoples (perhaps just perceived) misuse of coded mechanics. That's not fun, and I don't think it's good for the game - even if it is inevitable to some extent. We need to err on the side of making stealth/sneak/steal/etc harder to abuse in my opinion when we do balance things. Even if nine out of ten times this kind of RP is done in a fantastic manner, that one out of ten times the experience goes horribly has the potential to make all those other times it's done wonderfully be more suspect. The players that engage in this RP well deserve better than to have their every attempt scrutinized with OOC suspicion, but the more awful experiences people have with it and the more awful those experiences are, the less they may be willing to engage with it in an open-minded manner - and it's justified not wanting to risk getting screwed over in an immersion-breaking manner.

Clan compounds are easy enough to get into as they are, and the risks in doing so are already milder than makes sense IC. It should be a risky endeavor, and if you feel like you should be able to slip in with virtual traffic and you think doing so will create fun for the game, arrange a plot with staff. You know what another great way to spy on a clan is? Join it. This sort of thing should be incredibly risky to any character trying it in this harsh, unforgiving world, not a common criminal activity.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #130 on: May 20, 2020, 06:58:32 PM »
@9001. I don't fully disagree with you but a couple things:
  • In my idea all your virtual stuff clan/PC would remain safe from thieves. Only stuff on your persons is still subject to normal risk found just about anywhere else.
  • Killing someone in a compound is probably the worst idea as it should lead to a bounty so high everyone will want a piece of you. Basically even if you succeed in killing someone there and you get away from all the guard that are more condense then in a tavern, you'll still be very easily identified. At the very least you will very likely receive justice vs getting killed in an apartment.
  • The big secrets are still often safe within emails between sponsored roles and staff, as well as many sponsored roles have offices they can take meetings to which adds that extra layer of protection.

That said I personally am okay with PC targeting each others plots rather then just having to resort to kill the other PC. Plot having a chance to fail because PC are investing time in watching and listening to you from the shadows doesn't seem so bad to me.  This is actually what I hoped would be Tuluk's theme would be rather than the feeling that all plots would fail with certainty because their templars knew everything.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2020, 07:06:12 PM by Dresan »
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9001

  • Posts: 133
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #131 on: May 21, 2020, 12:54:03 AM »
@Dresan

I'm going to tackle your points a bit out of order.

That said I personally am okay with PC targeting each others plots rather then just having to resort to kill the other PC. Plot having a chance to fail because PC are investing time in watching and listening to you from the shadows doesn't seem so bad to me.

I agree with the first part of that 110%. I want more avenues for conflict that aren't immediately jumping to 'how do I kill this character', from every angle. The second part is where things get more complicated. The amount of time invested in things doesn't matter to me if it just makes no sense in the first place. This gets into the question of what does it mean to sneak and hide. What's happening virtually to justify the coded effects? If you're on a busy street, blending into the crowds is a thing. Or in a crowded tavern. And if someone notices you despite this, they're noticing that you're trying to be inconspicuous, and failing.

In a clan compound, however, what's supposed to be happening? Are you wearing clan livery and acting in a way that's not suspicious in that environment? Or are you dressed head to toe in stealth gear, sticking out like a store thumb? Are you hanging around a table, listening to conversations? Hiding under it? There are NPCs and vNPCs doing their own business in clans... but they're doing things that should make sense. I have come down hard on people hiding/sneaking in clans I have leadership positions in for hiding and sneaking about, after being berated for doing it myself.

It's like a (somewhat) less absurd version of managing to shadow someone into an apartment and remain hidden. Is it codedly possible? Yes. Does it make any sense to be able to get through the door behind someone unnoticed, and then cling to the ceiling like some kind of elf ninja to avoid detection? Not so much. Do you really think your PC isn't going to stick out in a clan compound, particularly if they're lingering or rummaging through things they don't seem to have any reason to be. I don't see a situation where being able to get away with this using code alone makes any sense.

I don't want my plots to be messed with because someone has a high level of hide and is essentially ignoring the virtual world and what it ICly means to use the hide and sneak skills. I'll reiterate those skills aren't always used with disregard for what sense it makes. I'd even wager that most of the time their use is reasonable enough. You're not encouraging plotting and RP by opening up clans to be infiltrated in a more cavalier manner. You're just encouraging plotting to be stifled and happen over Ways. And for anyone hiding in compounds to be attacked. Anyone acting suspicious in a sneaky manner in a compound should be attacked, especially if your clan is unrealistically lax about gate security. This just (reasonably) encourages more seeking out and smashing of stealthed PCs, and more unrealistic sneaking to avoid that.

I don't see this as realistic, engaging, or interesting interference with plots. It's just frustrating, immersion breaking, and draining.

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In my idea all your virtual stuff clan/PC would remain safe from thieves. Only stuff on your persons is still subject to normal risk found just about anywhere else.

A clan compound isn't just anywhere else though, for the reasons outlined above. Again, this goes in to what it means ICly to be doing something like stealing. It's the difference between someone bumping into on the street and lifting a pouch off your belt and some out of place figure in a dark cloak lingering by your bunk, picking through your pack or things. Even if they're disguised in clan livery, it's still a wholly different environment.

I think anyone who wants to pull that off is welcome to coordinate with staff.

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Killing someone in a compound is probably the worst idea as it should lead to a bounty so high everyone will want a piece of you. Basically even if you succeed in killing someone there and you get away from all the guard that are more condense then in a tavern, you'll still be very easily identified. At the very least you will very likely receive justice vs getting killed in an apartment.

Killing someone in a compound you're an intruder in should get you ganked, unless you managed to pull it off somewhere private.

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The big secrets are still often safe within emails between sponsored roles and staff, as well as many sponsored roles have offices they can take meetings to which adds that extra layer of protection.

Encouraging leadership roles to be even more stingy with secrets and plot information is going to make the game less engaging, not more. If you're suggesting that some rooms don't allow hiding, and reflect the impossibility of that in their room description, I'm all for it. Otherwise, we still have the issue of hide being abused as invisibility. Driving every even somewhat sensitive conversation into these secure rooms is something that I think will stagnate the game further.

P.S. I know I'm opposing you on almost every point here, but I do appreciate that your willingness to debate them and highlight our differing perspectives.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #132 on: May 21, 2020, 09:07:45 AM »
Let us not get into a deep discussion about game play mechanics since for ever reason you may have about its 'realism', someone else can come up with a counter to the effect that it all turns into a hyperbole.

I don't disagree that clans should offer some of the benefits it current does in full, but i would sincerely suggest staff review what level of commitment(time) people should be giving to clans to begin receiving the benefits that they do. Some clans do not need the level of protection they get for ALL its members from day 1, nor should they be giving all its members a place to hang out outside of work. Even communal sleeping areas should probably be something for full members not every dirty new recruit depending on the job they will be doing.

The amount clan members get for free because its collecting dust somewhere in the compound should be reviewed.

These places amass such huge amount of goods that there is often no longer any need for members to earn their own shit. This is one of the reasons I feel the game needs to be more aggressive with decay. If it isn't on a PC and instead just sitting in one of these storehouses, it should begin slowly decaying and breaking down. Or be like shops someone coming in everyone once in a while and take it away to making use of it.

The lack of need for anything is really detrimental and reduces interactions for PC. Right now there is very little opportunity to get to those secrets,whether through stealth or bribes. I would rather have people be stingy but still have an opportunity rather than have no opportunity at all.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 10:49:01 AM by Dresan »
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Riev

  • Posts: 5721
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #133 on: May 21, 2020, 09:55:10 AM »
Great Merchant (Flop)House.

Since nobody employs rando hunters anymore, there is now a communal building that all recruit crafters/aides of the House congregate in. It provides a modicum of security, but not the gate + guard of the typical compound. Base it off the Tuluki tattoo code, but have it look for an item of clothing, perhaps? Something where you need a particular item in order to get by the front desk area, but also easily abuseable by those who can sneak/hide/acquire that item themselves.

If you can prove yourself an asset to the House, they let you in the Compound as a full member. Until then, use the Flophouse. Don't use the Flophouse. Buy an apartment, they don't care.
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Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #134 on: May 21, 2020, 12:18:08 PM »
I think the view of clans today are still polluted by the fact that years ago being in a clan sucked compared to being indy.

During this era:
  • Tuluk was in full swing and you could get involved with political plots with joining clans 
  • Rangers ruled the world and thieves sucked.
  • Indies were richer than clan members
  • Some were very respected and had backing with their noble patron.

 Allanak is a different beast that doesn't support or encourage indies like Tuluk did. Heck just a couple years back you couldn't sell a chalton hide with salarr/byn making sure you weren't stepping on their toes. Back before the war there were two indie shops in tuluk competing and hiring people.

Indies in allanak feel like walking targets just waiting for their day to be crushed. Stealth actually matters now too as much as bash, archery,ride and disarm.

Additionally progression in any game is important for long term fun. Wealth, power and social status should be things earned with time, if not it should come with appropriate risk. The pendulum basically skewed too far the other way now with clans offering way to much as soon as you join.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 12:22:45 PM by Dresan »
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9001

  • Posts: 133
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #135 on: May 21, 2020, 01:03:49 PM »
The amount clan members get for free because its collecting dust somewhere in the compound should be reviewed.

These places amass such huge amount of goods that there is often no longer any need for members to earn their own shit.

I think this is something to be addressed by leader PCs in clans. Things accumulate, and there are good reasons to deal with that clutter. It makes sense for the people in clans to decide what's worth the space it's taking up, and what isn't. And how much should be earned by new hires, and what should be given. How this should work should depend on the clan itself, and the leadership style of whoever's running things. Organically driven need for things is fun. Forcing it for the sake of it is just adding to the grind.

I could say more on the topic, but this is already getting to be a bit of a derail.

Great Merchant (Flop)House.

I like this idea. It makes sense to me ICly that people need to prove themselves a bit before getting access to the more secure area. My concerns would be that people are already generally unimpressed with a clan's coded benefits despite the IC draw they should be, and the splitting up of the clan leading to less interaction with the newer members, and I wonder if it'll make GMHs less newbie friendly. I think GMH clans should be a great place for new players to get acclimated to the game.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #136 on: May 21, 2020, 03:16:30 PM »
I think this is something to be addressed by leader PCs in clans.

In the same way you don't agree stealth 'reasoning' should be left in the hands of player due to that 10%, I don't agree this should be left with the player either even if they are sponsored.

But I agree the conversation has derailed a bit. Good discussion though.
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9001

  • Posts: 133
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #137 on: May 21, 2020, 07:02:57 PM »
In the same way you don't agree stealth 'reasoning' should be left in the hands of player due to that 10%.

This is not what I said, and misrepresenting my point. I think it is up to players to determine when and how the use of their skills is reasonable, but at the same time when it comes to what is codedly possible and how easy it is, we need to err more on the side of protecting from abuse and misuse on that kind of thing when it comes to weighing the balance of things.

Okay. Now I'm done on this topic, at least on this thread. Just wanted to make sure my point wasn't misunderstood there.

Kyviantre

  • Posts: 535
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #138 on: May 21, 2020, 11:32:11 PM »
'Carry' command.  Similar to subdue, but for a willing 'victim'.

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carry miffy
You move to pick up a green-eyed person.
A green-eyed person lets you carry them.
/
A green-eyed person refuses to let you pick them up.

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A tall person would like to pick you up, do you accept?
yes
You get picked up by a tall person.
/
no
You refuse to be carried.

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setdown miffy
A tall person puts a green-eyed person down.

Changes out the 'walk' text (to '<carried> is carried by <carrier> in from the east') and ldesc is altered (to '<carried> is here, being carried by <carrier>').

Doesn't flag crimcode like subdue does (since it requires at least OOC compliance).

If carrier is unconscious, automatically accepts.

Perfect for carrying your lovely lady/gent around your apartment, for carrying your injured sergeant to a medic after she got her leg bitten off by megafauna, or for carrying your latest recruit home when he got black-out drunk in the Gaj.

Subdue is always so...dodgy to use for these things (because crimcode doesn't discriminate!), and it'd be nice to not be codedly walking (ruins immersion!).  Subdue is great...but this covers the other reasons someone might want to haul another person around in a more peaceful and careful manner!

Blurb should be simple (not necessarily as above, but similar), to allow for carrying in bridal-carries, fireman's lifts, or just two burly troopers slinging a drunk runner between their shoulders.  Nothing too 'cute', basically!

Not sure about the 'setdown', could just toggle 'carry' to drop them?  Open to suggestions for that!

Obviously only one person able to carry another.  Should be close enough to subdue to be not horrible to pillage it for easy code parts (mebe?)

110% would PK six people for this addition ;D
« Last Edit: May 21, 2020, 11:36:54 PM by Kyviantre »
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Helloworld

  • Posts: 58
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #139 on: May 22, 2020, 02:44:23 AM »
Addition of a "not" clause to "get", "put", "drop", "junk" etc.

Example:

> get all.branch not.thorny

> put all.branch bag not.thorny

> junk all not.branch

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Thoughts? :)

9001

  • Posts: 133
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #140 on: May 22, 2020, 03:05:30 AM »
Addition of a "not" clause to "get", "put", "drop", "junk" etc.

Example:

> get all.branch not.thorny

> put all.branch bag not.thorny

> junk all not.branch

Do you see where I'm going with this?

Thoughts? :)

Love it! Though my preferred syntax would work it in with the keywords, just with a symbol preceding it like '!'.

'get all.dye.!red bag' or 'get all.!red.dye bag' would get all dyes that don't have the red keyword from a bag.

Perhaps the more natural language approach in your post is more intuitive for most people, though.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 03:07:50 AM by 9001 »

Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #141 on: May 22, 2020, 06:36:50 AM »
Not to detract since I do like the carry idea. But I thought this thread wasn't about purely coded ideas.

Mind you all the ideas require some coding at some point but perhaps the carry idea should be moved to its own thread in coding section.
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Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #142 on: May 22, 2020, 10:10:26 AM »
I was actually thinking of putting this thread on coding or general discussion for a long time. However, its not so much of ideas as some suggestions.

The Wisdom stat...... :(

I don't think I need to go into the utter value of strength these days, or agility which often compete for first or second priority. Both of these are important to combat or stealth character both of which have quite a bit of popularity these days. Endurance often is a healthy second at times too, if you get one shot you can only blame yourself for not prioritizing this stat higher.

From this perspective alone we can see that wisdom is a bit lacking. However, having played with a super high wisdom (elf) character a while ago I am pretty disappointed with what this stat did for my character compared to the benefits of any other stat. The main advantage of high wisdom is supposed to be learning faster. The main problem is that the way it does this is that in my opinion it is promoting twinking,unless you are spamming your skill way more often this benefit is lost. Even this benefit for combat roles has diminished with the bonuses found for training in clans.

The benefits high wisdom provides to perception skills is painfully disappointing. Assuming no other bonus, you won't be spotting a player that has prioritized agility that easily with scan, listen is even worse in this regard. Watch seems to be amazing all on its own. In general i am fine with this as I believe strong stealth brings a lot to the game though.

I have seen one cool thing come out of having high wisdom but its a chance encounter that only happened once since i started playing this game.

To a point skills trump stats, but that doesn't mean stats don't matter. This is actually a good thing in our game because we have the option of prioritizing stats. Someone who prioritized agility and endurance over strength has different ability and advantages over someone who prioritized strength and endurance. That is a good thing, it adds variety, and a need to used varied gear and play styles even within the same classes. An aide that prioritize endurance can probably an arrow to the neck which would kill the rough bynner who prioritized strength and agility. This adds great variety to the game's encounters and in the way the game is experienced.

Unfortunately, the fact that wisdom is so lackluster diminishes that flavor and variety to the game.

Some ideas to make wisdom a more tempting stat to prioritize over strength or agility (at the very least endurance):
  • wisdom could add +skill bonus to skills when successful in the same way a piece of gear might.
  • wisdom could in-prove chances of critical success for some skills or combat or even landing poison. Agility helps you hit,strength helps you hit harder,  wisdom could help you hit better, endurance helps you survive it all.
  • Wisdom should no longer help people learn as often. Instead it should helps you learn more with every failure. Giving you an increasing chance to learn x2 or x3 times more
  • The bonus from gear and environment could be boosted by wisdom providing 0/50/100/150/200 percent more bonus depending on wisdom.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 10:38:01 AM by Dresan »
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mansa

  • Posts: 9851
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #143 on: May 22, 2020, 10:58:09 AM »
...
The Wisdom stat......

The thing about stat modifications to existing skills and other coded functions is ...

How can I, as a player, make my character increase their stats?  There is nothing you can do within the game to forcefully increase a stat point permanently.

So it becomes - there is something about my character that I cannot change, that is preventing me from succeeding at something I want to.

I feel we would need to be very careful with what we want to modify when it comes to perks based on a something we can't really adjust after the fact.   That's why RPG games usually allow character to adjust their base stats as they progress, and allow the players to pick what stats they want to increase.
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Dresan

  • Posts: 1383
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #144 on: May 22, 2020, 12:25:43 PM »
I believe the ability to prioritize stats is sufficient enough for this particular game since PCs die/store all the time. 
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Narf

  • Posts: 901
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #145 on: May 22, 2020, 12:58:11 PM »
I'm not sure about the rest of the suggestions with wisdom, but I do really like changing wisdom so that it increases the amount you learn each time instead of changing how often you learn. As it is, characters with high wisdom will only gain some of the benefits of it if they have extended playtimes. I know some skills don't work that way, but most of them do.

Personally I'd rather just say: You can get one skill bump a day. The amount you get from that bump is based on a combination of your wisdom stat and whether the skill is a fast-raise or slow-raise skill.

Helloworld

  • Posts: 58
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #146 on: May 22, 2020, 02:10:52 PM »
Quote from: Shabago
"Outside the Known" force.

This has likewise been something to come up a few times on staff-side chatter. As a general rule, the team seems agreeable to the idea on paper, much like some of you in the player base at large. It has it's appeal and a pretty decent list of pro's. There are some cons attached to it as well.

Q: Why were they never mentioned anywhere in game legend? A: They were outside of the Known!
Q: Ok, if outside of the Known, how are they getting into the known? A: Skimmers over the silt! (example)
Q: Ah, but the silt in enclosed by cliffs - where are they getting through? A: An earthquake broke a hole?
Q: Ok, so an event that never occurred in game happened off screen allowing this new race? How do players interact with them? A: Players can set sail to their homeland or see them when they come ashore, in angry/peaceful fashion?
Q: So, an area even further out than Tuluk that requires mass building, and would take a big chunk away from condensed play zones and thus, utterly eliminate the point of Tuluk's closure?
A: This is awkward.

Tongue in cheek, obviously, but I imagine you all get what I'm driving at. "New race" out of nowhere in the current setting would be real jarring/senseless on the continuing story of the game as a whole. Adding one 'outside' the Known defeats the purpose of the condensed play-area for interaction.

Yes, absolutely there are ways around said cons/hurdles and we've continued to speak on them staff side. Again, pros and cons to the various suggestions.

Short answer - Maybe.

I think it's possible to have the story develop in such a way as not to be jarring. Doesn't even have to involve a new race's entry into the narrative. Mantises have been somewhat absent for a while. Perhaps something going on in their neck of the woods pushes them out into the playable races territories? Not as much building needed (I can only guess though).

Interestingly I actually think this kind of event would further condense the player base, people would gather to the conflict and story and have to rely on each other more. 

Possible reason for the change in their cultural behaviour (ingress into the played territories) could be due to a technological innovation of some kind. Not sure what fits but perhaps the wheel? Domestication (or primordial version of the same, think symbiosis).

People's thoughts? More I think about the mantis idea actually, the more I see its merits.

th3kaiser

  • Posts: 486
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #147 on: May 22, 2020, 02:41:23 PM »
I mean, we have other races that are canon that only a handful of people have ever seen or heard about. I'm thinking about a specific one that had a ton of plot stuff a decade ago. Some of this stuff already exists, I don't see why we'd need to make up brand new ones. But whatever, I honestly think we and staff take this game FAR too seriously sometimes.

Why can't we have races from beyond the Known show up? Because we ourselves have painted us into this corner with our strict adherence to rules we made up as a community. Just let loose a bit, y'know?

DesertT

  • Posts: 943
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #148 on: May 22, 2020, 03:27:22 PM »
Halflings Riding Mantises!!
The early bird gets the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese.

number13

  • Posts: 1108
Re: Content and creation
« Reply #149 on: May 22, 2020, 07:42:12 PM »
Quote from: Shabago
Tongue in cheek, obviously, but I imagine you all get what I'm driving at. "New race" out of nowhere in the current setting would be real jarring/senseless on the continuing story of the game as a whole. Adding one 'outside' the Known defeats the purpose of the condensed play-area for interaction.

You put 'new race' in scare quotes, so I know you know...it isn't necessarily about a 'new race' so much as as strange culture, and a hint at a wider world beyond that which is Known.

Just as with the random dungeons, there's a lot of places that exist virtually in the game, that we cannot go to or enter. There must be rooms on the game map that simply end. Though it would be plausible in the narrative for a character to continue exploring, we collectively make the decision to say, "The narrative focus is here, not there."

There have been forces from Beyond invading the Known, before. When there's a [elelmental/demon/space-kank] attack, nobody thinks that means we have to take the fight into their home plane, and now all of the sudden there has to be three city-state sized settlements ready to go in the Elemental Plane of [whatever].

Maybe if PCs make the arduous trek to the homelands of the invaders, they get stored for a couple RL years to account for the distance and difficulty of the trip.

Someone might say, "Well, my silly mage has goofy powers that lets them go places very fast." To which I say, a) the Known might be special for the strength of elemental magic in the vicinity. Outside the Known could be magic-dead, and without water, for hundreds of thousands of leagues, until you reach the next Oasis. And b) those goofy powers cheapen exploration, and therefore probably shouldn't exist in the first place.

...

Brings up the idea that the invaders might the survivors of an Oasis that was defiled to death. A plotline like that would emphasis the apocalyptic theme of Arm, which is often missing in action.
« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 07:51:16 PM by number13 »