Author Topic: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?  (Read 1164 times)

Barsook

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Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« on: April 28, 2020, 11:41:46 AM »
When did the IC history shift from the Merchant Houses having their own forces to creating the Garrison? What about the council? I have a feeling this isn't a "find out IC" but a case of the missing chronology of modern day Luir's and should also be included in "what you should know".

I'm also wondering how much was player created and that's why I'm posting this here instead ask the staff.

BadSkeelz

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2020, 11:59:56 AM »
The Garrison is a relatively recent development, within the last three RL years.

Short of it is is the Kuraci Fist wasn't able to protect the Outpost during a renewed period of gith threat, and they had to bring in the other Merchant Houses to shore up their defenses. The Garrison is the result of this combining of forces.

It was almost entirely staff fiat, although there were a lot of PCs from the other houses as we tried to hash out the current form.
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Barsook

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2020, 12:04:39 PM »
Quote
1659 (Year 42 Age 22)

    As Kurac and assorted allies make a strike on a gith tribe that has been harassing Luir's Outpost and trade for several years, the gith somehow gain access to the Kuraci Fist fort north of Luir's. Through apparent use of magick the fort is reduced to a glassed over wasteland by the gith.

Is it stemming from this? If that's the case, shouldn't it be expended a bit?

BadSkeelz

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2020, 12:11:03 PM »
Yes, that was more or less the starting point of shit "Getting out of hand."
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perfecto

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #4 on: May 04, 2020, 04:01:13 AM »
This is a good question, and I'll admit, even as an old hand at this game I have no idea who runs/backs/is part of "The Garrison" they just kind of took over and then it was "no more questions!" as per usual Zalanthan law.   8)
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Bast

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2020, 09:27:25 AM »
I kinda missed the entire Garrison thing happening but I got to say I feel its been a negative impact on the game from my perspective which is albeit limited. It creates a mini-tuluk where the nobles are the Merchants. I think it gives them too much power and is feeding a 'us vs them' attitude in game play as far Merchants feeling entitled and on equal ground with powers that are well above them. I think the Merchant class works best when its dependent on the higher castes. The relationship should always be 'you want my wares and I need your power and patronage to stay in business.'

But I also feel the big 3 GMH (I'm leaving out the 4th because its not playable anymore) should be broken up some to make more room for indy Merchants, tribals, and to acknowledge the Minor Merchant houses place in the game. I think we have better traction with tribal 'working' in the game instead of being in isolated roles that break up the player base if more of the tribes were sources of trade. Sure let Kadius have clothing, Salarr have armor and swords ect..those are things everyone generally needs so having a clan stationed in a city with those goods if you aren't going to stock the shops with them is a vital thing. But I think there would be a lot more inclusion if people were excited when the tribes pulled into town so you could buy rare and special luxury items.

Yeah I think its good the Kurac don't 'own' Luirs anymore but wasn't the issue there they always got to big for their breeches? I have played my fair share of Merchants before I well recall what a pain the Kurac could be with Luirs...but now we just have all the Merchants feeling entitled.

I should also again note my view is limited as I tend to have long lived PC's so it could be a perspective thing.
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triste

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #6 on: May 12, 2020, 10:12:22 AM »
But I also feel the big 3 GMH (I'm leaving out the 4th because its not playable anymore) should be broken up some to make more room for indy Merchants, tribals, and to acknowledge the Minor Merchant houses place in the game. I think we have better traction with tribal 'working' in the game instead of being in isolated roles that break up the player base if more of the tribes were sources of trade.

First off, I do not have exposure to the behind the scenes meetings, but GMH ruling Luir's is interesting to me just because it's an example of a more committee based form of governance while the main model in Zalanthas is authoritarian. I like that variance.

That said, I agree it's unbalanced. It is crazy to me that Luir's rents out warehouses and space to independent merchants and tribals, yet they are not represented. It also is not a coincidence that I've also seen independent merchants and tribes in Luir's brutally screwed over in ways the GMH never are.

It might open up interesting roleplay options if a seat was opened up for Tribal representation, as well as a seat for any independent merchant renting in Luir's. It would make warehouses in Luir's more desireable, and open up interesting roleplay around nomination/elections of these Tribal and independent folk.
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Barsook

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #7 on: May 12, 2020, 10:52:49 AM »
While I did say it was a doable idea and someone can be the change, there was a IC hint that I said.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 12:54:25 PM by Barsook »

triste

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2020, 11:13:06 AM »
Heh, 'sook had a good point before it was removed.

Essentially: the previous idea of having more seats is totally doable, someone with the means feel free to be the change IG!
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HeeBeeGB

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #9 on: May 12, 2020, 02:03:40 PM »
Feeling entitled and being entitled are two different things. I have seen merchants and Agents who feel entitled smacked the hell down when they are in Allanak by the powers that be. But the powers that be of Allanak only have so much reach, and I actually enjoy that the GMH have a bit of a capitalistic stronghold out in the desert. It's annoying to Allanak. It is something of a thorn in the side. That generates conflict.

If Allanak is the end all be all of power structure in the game, it is pretty stale and monotone, IMHO. Should Merchants cow to Nobles and Templars? That is certainly up to the PC. I don't find it to be an endemic problem of Luirs or the GMH, it is much more of a personal choice of approach for these people.

I do think the Garrison and the Council could use some tweaks, and they've already been tweaked quite a bit in the last 6 months to a year. In particular, the Council is a pretty dreary process (likely by design) but it's difficult to get almost anything accomplished, even when you have other Houses supporting each other or a certain cause/vote. It's also super hard to schedule that many PCs to be in the same room at the same time for an extended period of time. Can't we invent zoom calls in Zalanthas already?

Narf

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #10 on: May 12, 2020, 02:14:58 PM »

I do think the Garrison and the Council could use some tweaks, and they've already been tweaked quite a bit in the last 6 months to a year. In particular, the Council is a pretty dreary process (likely by design) but it's difficult to get almost anything accomplished, even when you have other Houses supporting each other or a certain cause/vote. It's also super hard to schedule that many PCs to be in the same room at the same time for an extended period of time. Can't we invent zoom calls in Zalanthas already?

I think it would be great if votes could be submitted via writing. Don't the merchants have some limited form of literacy? At least something that could be used for a yea/neh vote. Then you have a scribe opening up and reading "And merchant Oompah Salarr, who is currently attending to her consort's legal needs in Allanak (OOCly offline) votes Yea on the proposal to annex the new baobab tree three leagues south of the wall for Council needs"


Akariel

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #11 on: May 12, 2020, 02:58:32 PM »

I do think the Garrison and the Council could use some tweaks, and they've already been tweaked quite a bit in the last 6 months to a year. In particular, the Council is a pretty dreary process (likely by design) but it's difficult to get almost anything accomplished, even when you have other Houses supporting each other or a certain cause/vote. It's also super hard to schedule that many PCs to be in the same room at the same time for an extended period of time. Can't we invent zoom calls in Zalanthas already?

I think it would be great if votes could be submitted via writing. Don't the merchants have some limited form of literacy? At least something that could be used for a yea/neh vote. Then you have a scribe opening up and reading "And merchant Oompah Salarr, who is currently attending to her consort's legal needs in Allanak (OOCly offline) votes Yea on the proposal to annex the new baobab tree three leagues south of the wall for Council needs"

Just to add, and take this as 2 year old info as I have stepped down, the process was purposefully left vague in places so players could do things like this.

Brokkr

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #12 on: May 12, 2020, 03:40:01 PM »
That said, I agree it's unbalanced. It is crazy to me that Luir's rents out warehouses and space to independent merchants and tribals, yet they are not represented. It also is not a coincidence that I've also seen independent merchants and tribes in Luir's brutally screwed over in ways the GMH never are.

It's not like it is a democracy.  Why would you give up any more power than you had to? Its not like any of them need to look any further than Kurac itself to see what that leads to.

triste

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #13 on: May 12, 2020, 03:47:41 PM »
That said, I agree it's unbalanced. It is crazy to me that Luir's rents out warehouses and space to independent merchants and tribals, yet they are not represented. It also is not a coincidence that I've also seen independent merchants and tribes in Luir's brutally screwed over in ways the GMH never are.

It's not like it is a democracy.  Why would you give up any more power than you had to? Its not like any of them need to look any further than Kurac itself to see what that leads to.

Yeah, for these very reasons this would have to be something that develops in game. If it does, it would address the concerns I replied to (That the GMH has disproportionate power, which is currently by design).
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #14 on: May 12, 2020, 03:50:48 PM »
I like that we have a plutocratic, oligarchical Merchant's Republic in game where (theoretically) a wide range of characters can rise to power and prominence. It's an interesting contrast to the extremely stratified Allanaki power structure, and far more dynamic and relatable than whatever the hell Tuluk was trying to be. I'm intrigued by the politics I hear second-hand in game, and regret not being around to take it more by the throat when the Garrison was first being formulated.

Is Luir's as-is perfect? No, not by a long shot. But it's different and accessible and catering to a whole different slew of playstyles than Allanak.

I also think Zalanthan Merchants in general have better motivations than Zalanthan Nobility, who seem to spend most of their energy complaining about the Merchants. Edit to add: this is mostly a  reflection of Nobles not having a whole lot that they can actually Do.
« Last Edit: May 12, 2020, 03:53:22 PM by BadSkeelz »
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Lizzie

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #15 on: May 12, 2020, 04:48:33 PM »
I played one of the first Kuraci Fist members who was integrated into the Garrison when it first showed up. I was the only one left, eventually, after the others either quit the Fist, went into the Garrison and decided they didn't want to stay in it, or were killed off through the game's "natural selection" process (carru, gith, assassin, etc).

I was not given much insight on the behind the scenes (GMH politics) going on at the time, as my character was primarily a soldier and not a leader. What I did learn, however, was enough to make me confident that there was a LOT of political posturing going on behind meetingroom doors between PCs. Some of it was with NPC/clan leader intervention, some was not.

I actually LIKED the idea of the Garrison. I was one of the few who enjoyed it from the very beginning. It was a new kind of intrigue. My character might have just gone along because she didn't want to rock the boat or upset the status quo, but I, as a player, looked forward to her being bandied about like a pawn on a chessboard.

I don't know what it's like presently, but I really liked the concept of it and hope to experience it again, even if it has gone through tweaks since it originated.
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Halcyon

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #16 on: June 01, 2020, 12:27:07 PM »
As a player, I appreciate the politics of the Garrison.  In character, I keep having huge problems wanting anything to do with those politics. 

Military conflicts fought by bureaucracies and politicians just dont inspire much confidence.   I find this especially true when a pc can look out of the Luirs north gate and "see" the glassy ruins of a former fortress.  This is no halfhearted enemy.  They have numbers, intent, and juice the Garrison sometimes cannot match.

Some soldiers need to feel they can win.
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Modern Day Luir's- When Did it Start?
« Reply #17 on: June 01, 2020, 01:12:06 PM »
As a player, I appreciate the politics of the Garrison.  In character, I keep having huge problems wanting anything to do with those politics. 

Military conflicts fought by bureaucracies and politicians just dont inspire much confidence.   I find this especially true when a pc can look out of the Luirs north gate and "see" the glassy ruins of a former fortress.  This is no halfhearted enemy.  They have numbers, intent, and juice the Garrison sometimes cannot match.

Some soldiers need to feel they can win.

I'd love to see the Garrison (or the Arm, for the matter) launch coups against their out-of-touch bosses occasionally. Unfortunately that's well outside the scope of PC agency.
janeshephard: You really think BadSkeelz understands the concept of Wine In Front of me? This guy shot me as a townie when he felt threatened. The man's a neandrathal.

Miradus: He's not some weird mental abomination. He's just a guy on the internet.