Author Topic: Running Events For The Playerbase  (Read 707 times)

Is Friday

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Running Events For The Playerbase
« on: April 12, 2020, 06:47:30 PM »
I open up this thread as a complaint about the public events for the past few years catering to a small portion of the playerbase instead of being inclusive of the player population. Yes, I'm using the term player population because we need to think about this as players, not as Zalanthans. We're playing a game and want to have fun. It is not fun if your PC is not included. If you have a leader PC (no matter what clan) and wondering why you do not have an aide or people to interact with, this is a symptom of the problem with how you play the game. (Besides wholesale slaughter of anyone deemed a "problem", but that is a separate topic that I won't delve into here.)

1.) Events are catering to leader PCs who have already accumulated a lot of meta-influence and coded riches. This is not the way to run public events.

Nobles get a stipend they can bank while accepting favor-items for existing. I know this because I've played 2 nobles -- you can get most things you need for free and then some. GMH leaders get a hefty cut of their sales (which can be immense, depending on playtimes.) I know this because I have played 6+ GMH sponsored roles. This provides a disproportionate amount of affluence and influence into the GMH & Noble scene. In contrast: the local grebber will not have much at all if they are adhering to spending money on booze at the Gaj or items they need. This is working as intended.
 
For that reason we should encourage events toward the bulk of the playerbase. Events should seek to include PCs of the lower class if they are done beyond the walls of the Nobles Quarter. If an event is done in an upper class establishment or Nobles estate, then you should still have content for the attending parties, as appropriate.

If I'm logging in to an event in the commons and find that it is content that doesn't involve my PC? I am left with a feeling of "why bother?" for RPTs.

2.) Content should be added to events which makes them unique and worth logging in for.

If you are ICly planning an event for 3-6 RL months then there is little to no reason why you cannot add a unique game or contest for a special event. Your contest or event should not seem like something you came up with 15 minutes before the event beginning. That is lazy and frankly insulting to people who set aside time for a "great big RPT".

3.) Events should be run in a timely fashion as to maximize fun for the largest demographic of the attending PCs as possible.

This ought to be self-explanatory but I keep running into these events which include superfluous monologues, pointless "buy in", and no interactive content. If your event has a majority of the present players afk, then your event sucks and they will go play somewhere else that they can achieve some interaction.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2020, 06:49:59 PM by Is Friday »
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Draugr

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2020, 08:25:55 PM »
I despise having to police the GDB for content or to monitor what you all choose to discuss, but I will take a moment here to offer a few quick responses.

1.  If you are unhappy with the way public events are running, you are always welcome to pony up the time and effort it takes to generate one or more of your own that runs as you would like them to run.  Staff supports players that take the initiative to run these events.  We do not dictate how these events should be targeted, or we might as well run them ourselves.

2.   Content is generally added that is unique.  We cannot guarantee it will be content every player appreciates.  Nor can we guarantee it every player's character will have equal access to the content.  Finally, we will not dictate to the players that are ICly presenting the content, how it should be presented or to whom, unless they are stepping out of the bounds of the world-dynamic - like selling metal to commoners in trade for rat tails.

3.   Events are run by fellow players and often require coordinating a great deal of playtime both in preparation and execution.  None of which is made particularly easy by the spread of our playerbase across many timezones.  Coordinating an activity for 40-60+ players and expecting no downtime or delays is... very hopeful.  That said, efforts are made for events to run according to schedule, as the supporting staff and players *also* have other things to do on any given day.

So, by all means.  Please consider how you might run events for the underserved population of player characters noted, consider an event that would be thematically appropriate, and reach out to staff (either your clan's ST or Unclanned if you don't have one) and let us know what, if any, help you need coordinating.

ETA: not
« Last Edit: April 14, 2020, 10:36:01 AM by Draugr »

Is Friday

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #2 on: April 12, 2020, 08:36:16 PM »
I despise having to police the GDB for content or to monitor what you all choose to discuss, but I will take a moment here to offer a few quick responses.

1.  If you are unhappy with the way public events are running, you are always welcome to pony up the time and effort it takes to generate one or more of your own that runs as you would like them to run.  Staff supports players that take the initiative to run these events.  We do not dictate how these events should be targeted, or we might as well run them ourselves.

I would be happy to and have in the past run events with great support from staff.

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2.   Content is generally added that is unique.  We cannot guarantee it will be content every player appreciates.  Nor can we guarantee it every player's character will have equal access to the content.  Finally, we will dictate to the players that are ICly presenting the content, how it should be presented or to whom, unless they are stepping out of the bounds of the world-dynamic - like selling metal to commoners in trade for rat tails.

I have no dispute with your policy of enabling players for the content they wish to push forward. Events should engage the playerbase its catering to entertain on an OOC level with respect to lore and IC events--we agree. I have a dispute with how isolating some players are choosing to be by spend their staff bucks for "me only" content. This isn't a new phenomena, though.

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3.   Events are run by fellow players and often require coordinating a great deal of playtime both in preparation and execution.  None of which is made particularly easy by the spread of our playerbase across many timezones.  Coordinating an activity for 40-60+ players and expecting no downtime or delays is... very hopeful.  That said, efforts are made for events to run according to schedule, as the supporting staff and players *also* have other things to do on any given day.

So, by all means.  Please consider how you might run events for the underserved population of player characters noted, consider an event that would be thematically appropriate, and reach out to staff (either your clan's ST or Unclanned if you don't have one) and let us know what, if any, help you need coordinating.

I'd be happy to.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

mansa

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #3 on: April 13, 2020, 07:59:26 PM »
I think one of the things to talk about is scope and expectation.

To me, you could summarize events into something like 6 categories, based on scope and change effort from staff:
WorldRequires Changes
WorldNo Changes
CitystateRequires Changes
CitystateNo Changes
ClanRequires Changes
ClanNo Changes

Other questions to think about are:

Why are you running an event?
What are the possible results of the event?
Who are the target characters you want to have involved in the event?
What world changes / world reactions (aka Staff interactions) are involved in the event?




In my opinion, the most recent event was 100% player designed and created, and would be fit into the slot "citystate - no changes"
The events itself didn't require any staff intervention.  If we had no staff involved, the event would still go on without much trouble, though a lot less immersive.

1.) Events are catering to leader PCs who have already accumulated a lot of meta-influence and coded riches. This is not the way to run public events.

I think understanding the scope of particular events like this important.  I don't think some parts of the most recent event was designed to involve all players, and that's okay.  Players choose how they want their characters to interact with the game.   If the scope was meant to involve everyone, it wouldn't be an event focused on noble power structures and the influence of wealth.  If the scope was meant to involve everyone, it would probably be some sort of mixture between combat, hunt/gather item, and movement from point A to point B.


2.) Content should be added to events which makes them unique and worth logging in for.

I agree for the most part.  I found it most enjoyable just observing the -volume- of characters in the same area, and found that a reason to log in.  That's just one of the things I found of worth in the event.


3.) Events should be run in a timely fashion as to maximize fun for the largest demographic of the attending PCs as possible.

This is one of the hardest things to accomplish whenever you have more than three other people involved.  Herding cats, right?  I find that it may be helpful to break out-of-character to move the plot and story along.  I think most D&D DM's would agree.
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Spiderman

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #4 on: April 13, 2020, 09:02:02 PM »
I almost never post.  But man, I really think I had to with this one.  This is solely my opinion.

Friday:  You know, this thread made me think and random series of thoughts about how wildly rude it was toward the player base as a whole, by someone who touts how many times they have been in a position to present events like these to said player base.  It really means you should be very well aware, with your advertised and huge list of sponsored roles under your belt, what it takes, and can sometimes be a thankless chore, to present these events that sometimes can take real life months to accomplish. 

What you’re losing track of in the big picture of “throwing events for the player base” is the very large, very necessary distinction between events advertised in Staff Announcements and those advertised in Player Announcements.  They are two entirely different things, which require different considerations in scope.  Player Announcements is from your peers, using their ingenuity, resources, time and effort with “some” staff involvement, to try and offer entertainment and roleplay scenario for their fellow players.  You might get some objects built, you might get some echoes, but by and large, you’re going to get players, interacting with players in an effort to move people’s stories.  A great deal of time and effort from people, just like you, who either have a sponsored role, or don’t, is about the bigger picture and the story.  Involvement is more than just having the coins to buy a shiny doodad that’s being presented.  It’s about immersing the environment around your fellow players in a similar, like-minded roleplay scene.  This is what is Armageddon at its finest.  Shitting on the players who put time and effort into this, if you enjoyed it, participated, got anything out of it, or not, is frankly quite rude and is a bad look, especially to newer players who might have been getting first real taste of a big social event, who see a veteran presence come in and dump on all the work of fellow players. 

Not to be confused with those player driven efforts are those from Staff Announcements.  Should these be more in line with what you’re decrying the recent event about?  Absolutely.  Staff Announcements be they RPT, PBRPT, HRPT the bar is raised from the simple efforts of a bunch of players trying to entertain one another for the sake of doing so.  Those should involve mechanics, world changes and an attempt to get as many people “touched” by the event as possible.  If these go down, and somehow it makes zero impact on a large section of the player base, who were attempting to support and participate, then you might have a point.
I’m not trying to come off as an apologist, but I think the distinction needs to be made, and coming out and pointing fingers at fellow players who not only clearly give a damn, but gave their time and effort to engage and bring something to the environment, is not the way it should be done.  I say kudos to any players to take the time, effort and energy to invest in trying to make an event or scene for more than just a couple players, for the hard work scheming and setup, as well as the execution.  I hope there are many, many more.  The game will only ever be as strong as the player base is passionate, and with events like this, I think it shows.

Refugee

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #5 on: April 13, 2020, 09:17:59 PM »
My small contribution:
There's no such thing as an event you cannot be included in, unless your PC is physically not allowed to be there.

Even then, you can participate by bitching about it or wondering about it, or whatever you can think up to do.  But if you're allowed to be there, then there's lots of things to do.  It might not be as fun as actively participating, in, say, auctions that only very rich people have a chance to win anything.  But you can RP.  You can be awed, you can be pissed, you can be frustrated.  You can think up ways to liberate some of that wealth.  You can develop your PC's attitude toward it.

The best thing, I think, is that you're watching how Zalanthas works, and your PC now has some background for understanding.

Usually in these big things, there's stuff for the high players and stuff for the low.

I appreciate very much the people who take the time to put them on!  I don't want to do it.  Someone has to.  I am grateful they do!

BadSkeelz

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #6 on: April 13, 2020, 09:36:21 PM »
I think understanding the scope of particular events like this important.  I don't think some parts of the most recent event was designed to involve all players, and that's okay.  Players choose how they want their characters to interact with the game.   If the scope was meant to involve everyone, it wouldn't be an event focused on noble power structures and the influence of wealth.  If the scope was meant to involve everyone, it would probably be some sort of mixture between combat, hunt/gather item, and movement from point A to point B.

...

This is one of the hardest things to accomplish whenever you have more than three other people involved.  Herding cats, right?  I find that it may be helpful to break out-of-character to move the plot and story along.  I think most D&D DM's would agree.

I think it's interesting that you bring up DMing. I view Leadership roles as somewhat analogous to DMs in other tabletop games in their role of providing story hooks for (other) players to take advantage of. If every action of your Leader does not offer the potential for other characters, any characters, to potentially interact back, I would say you're not playing a Leader properly. Leaders should be played to throw out plot hooks, not solely to provide self-gratification.

There's nothing inherently wrong in noble-focused events. But they should be constructed in ways to provide as many means and avenues of interactions for characters at all social levels. At the very minimum there should be some reason to show up aside from gawking at nobles (even if that is something a historical trope).
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DesertT

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #7 on: April 13, 2020, 10:04:36 PM »
...stuff I totally agree with...

This.

I for one, had a BLAST!!

I -really- want to say more, but I had my character make the most of it regardless and again, REALLY enjoyed the whole thing!!

Sure, it was a bummer watching things go for more sids than I had, but I feel like there were plenty of opportunities provided to participate.

Not to mention goodies available to all, inks included!!

Great Support, Great Effort, Great Fun!!
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Asanadas

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2020, 10:58:02 PM »
Finally, we will dictate to the players that are ICly presenting the content, how it should be presented or to whom, unless they are stepping out of the bounds of the world-dynamic - like selling metal to commoners in trade for rat tails.
Surely you mean that, "We will NOT dictate to the players," right?
Be gentle. I had a Nyr brush with death that I'm still getting over.

Lotion

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2020, 05:51:10 AM »
It was neat seeing so many people in one place but as someone who is not used to parsing that much text in DIKU style after years playing LPmuds it was pretty hard to keep up. Having smaller events that happen more regularly would be really cool imo. Boxing matches in the Folley where people bet on the fights, talk shit, get hit would be fun. The Byn showing up to the Gaj after shit-day and all drunkenly singing together about how badass they are. Have the Atrium students put on a little play at Red's. Kank races across the salt flats. Having more smaller things that happened regularly would be just really cool to see; it would also allow new players to get used to roleplaying in bigger (number of people) scenes.

AdamBlue

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #10 on: April 14, 2020, 07:31:01 AM »
Can we get more big, world-altering events? Rad, thanks.

Draugr

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #11 on: April 14, 2020, 10:34:18 AM »
Finally, we will dictate to the players that are ICly presenting the content, how it should be presented or to whom, unless they are stepping out of the bounds of the world-dynamic - like selling metal to commoners in trade for rat tails.
Surely you mean that, "We will NOT dictate to the players," right?

Quite correct.

Refugee

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #12 on: April 14, 2020, 10:24:17 PM »
It was neat seeing so many people in one place but as someone who is not used to parsing that much text in DIKU style after years playing LPmuds it was pretty hard to keep up. Having smaller events that happen more regularly would be really cool imo. Boxing matches in the Folley where people bet on the fights, talk shit, get hit would be fun. The Byn showing up to the Gaj after shit-day and all drunkenly singing together about how badass they are. Have the Atrium students put on a little play at Red's. Kank races across the salt flats. Having more smaller things that happened regularly would be just really cool to see; it would also allow new players to get used to roleplaying in bigger (number of people) scenes.
These are really fun things, and anybody can cause them to happen.  Pick one and make it so!

Riev

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Re: Running Events For The Playerbase
« Reply #13 on: April 15, 2020, 09:19:59 AM »
One of my favorite times in the Byn was when 4 of us were in the Gaj for a night of drinking, and some poor sod at the bar became our target. They didn't DO anything, per se, but one member of the group decided to pick on them.

It became a bar brawl.

I yelled 'TOK PILE!" and every one of the Bynners started throwing mugs at the person's head and beating them down.
It was a great cohesive event.
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