Author Topic: Master Scan?  (Read 1483 times)

Giled

  • Posts: 160
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2020, 12:41:36 PM »
I suppose the main problem I have here, aside from the fact that I'm a -terrible- sneaky, is the lack of interaction options. If I spam walk away from a raider, there's a good chance the raider is going to get another chance at me to correct my lack of rp, with a pair of bone swordz to the face. So I can either learn to rp through a raid, or try and run and face the consequences.

If I'm a sneaky, and I get caught out of stealth and spam walk away, there's not nearly a high of a chance of proper retribution. I understand the hesitance to just get attacked / spam HG guarded to death if in a lawful area against a crimcode immune PC, but when I'm playing a soldier or bounty hunter for that matter, or anything after a sneaky, I'd rather have a scene than either a spam flee / hide/ run, or just walking into a room and attacking someone because if I don't, they'll just run off and disappear, possibly forever, once they're skilled enough.

I understand I can watch someone, but 'disappearing' into thin air in the middle of a room is entirely too valid a means of escape. Threaten, watch, chase all exist, but taking the time to enter that command and the delay is enough for someone to just get away, not to mention that those commands disable scan, so if they do leave, you have to scan all over again to try and find them, and by that time, they're long gone.

That's just my opinion on the matter though.

Bast

  • Posts: 969
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2020, 01:50:56 PM »
I don't know if this is actually the case already or not but I feel like some areas should be a ton harder to sneak/hide in. Rooms with active penalties to hide/sneak.

 The Arboretum for example..your all black ninja gear should be working against you in the well lite all white marble room filled with dozens of silk clad nobles..each of whom has a guard that's main job is keeping anyone their charge doesn't want to talk to well out of arms reach. To blend in upper crust places you should have to wear silks..and the fact that there are dozens of Vnpc body guards roaming around should inflict a heavy penalty on anyone trying to be sneaky in there.

I can think of few areas that should make it harder to stealth about and should carry a penalty based on Vnpc's, guard presence, lack of cover, good lighting ect...all of that should count against someone trying to hide and much like any good table top GM would apply a circumstance penalty to a PC in a table top game. I mean if you dressed like a murder hobo and smell like poop your going to stand out trying to slip past dozens of guards roaming the Dome at any given moment. I know I would toss a step penalty at any player that didn't take steps to make themselves blend in better. Stealth isn't all about hiding in corners and lurking in the rafters.

Along the same lines you should get a bonus sneaking in the Salarr compound if you are wearing a stolen Salarri uniform for example. I don't know how you would code for that..but thats  my two cents on the subject.
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Inks

  • Posts: 1309
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2020, 07:08:38 PM »
So, I'm curious. For those who have had a problem with Master Scan vs. Master Hide/Sneak, how many of you have prioritized wisdom on the character with master scan?

I ask because, most people with master hide/sneak have likely prioritized the associated stat to at least 2nd best, and I often hear people on the forums say that wisdom is their dump stat, or second to last. And since scan is one of the skills based on wisdom based on the help files, it would make sense that it doesn't function as well against people who prioritized the associated stat higher than the typical master scanner might.
Do you have experience with high wisdom/max stealth characters able to consistently spot max stealth elves? Or are you just suggesting hypotheticals?

I personally dont in either direction. I do believe high Agility elves get a far bigger boost to stealth then max wisdom humans get to perception. But I cant say for sure unless staff wants to reveal more details about the code. So far their only contribution to the discussion is that stealth equipment isnt playing a significant role (likely because many people - or perhaps just me - dont actually know which equipment provides stealth boosts and for which scenarios the boost applies. So therefore many thieves could be wearing the wrong equipment. Or else their stealth is just so good they dont bother).

I have seen high wis pcs that are almost impossible to hide from even on elf stalker/ misc. Yes they were mundane.
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Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2020, 07:09:38 PM »
Much as I like uber stealth of doom....I believe the relationship between scan and hide should be looked at.

Back in the day if I had a low wis dwarf ranger with master scan he could spot uber elf assassin. Oh it was not a 100% thing...Not even 50% But it could be done. Today I find that a good wis human with master scan cannot spot pretty much anybody with master hide. In fact, I played a human PC with master hide and nobody at all could spot him, Not even legacy rangers even if they had done things to make it easier to spot him. It was amusing standing there listening to them complain that they could not see him even with this scan improving thing.

Don't get me wrong, I quite enjoyed that immunity...but it was OP.
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KittenLicks

  • Posts: 107
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2020, 07:59:02 PM »
So, I'm curious. For those who have had a problem with Master Scan vs. Master Hide/Sneak, how many of you have prioritized wisdom on the character with master scan?

I ask because, most people with master hide/sneak have likely prioritized the associated stat to at least 2nd best, and I often hear people on the forums say that wisdom is their dump stat, or second to last. And since scan is one of the skills based on wisdom based on the help files, it would make sense that it doesn't function as well against people who prioritized the associated stat higher than the typical master scanner might.
Do you have experience with high wisdom/max stealth characters able to consistently spot max stealth elves? Or are you just suggesting hypotheticals?

I personally dont in either direction. I do believe high Agility elves get a far bigger boost to stealth then max wisdom humans get to perception. But I cant say for sure unless staff wants to reveal more details about the code. So far their only contribution to the discussion is that stealth equipment isnt playing a significant role (likely because many people - or perhaps just me - dont actually know which equipment provides stealth boosts and for which scenarios the boost applies. So therefore many thieves could be wearing the wrong equipment. Or else their stealth is just so good they dont bother).

I have seen high wis pcs that are almost impossible to hide from even on elf stalker/ misc. Yes they were mundane.
Anecdotally, I have had exceptional wisdom PCs with master scan and dismally failed to see any hiding elves ever. It's pretty weird that there's such polar opposite experiences.
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Heade

  • Posts: 868
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2020, 10:36:02 PM »
Much as I like uber stealth of doom....I believe the relationship between scan and hide should be looked at.

Back in the day if I had a low wis dwarf ranger with master scan he could spot uber elf assassin. Oh it was not a 100% thing...Not even 50% But it could be done. Today I find that a good wis human with master scan cannot spot pretty much anybody with master hide. In fact, I played a human PC with master hide and nobody at all could spot him, Not even legacy rangers even if they had done things to make it easier to spot him. It was amusing standing there listening to them complain that they could not see him even with this scan improving thing.

Don't get me wrong, I quite enjoyed that immunity...but it was OP.

Remind me. Do you normally prioritize wisdom last if you prioritize at all? I recall you saying you don't prioritize stats, but if you did, where would you put wisdom?
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Armaddict

  • Posts: 6233
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2020, 05:56:53 AM »
Quote
In this way, the best way to catch an elf is with your own elf, just like the best way to defeat a mul in the arena is with your own mul.

Maaan, if people actually did this more (some people do do it) without everyone jumping on why it's wrong in society (it's not), elves would be way more popular.  I had to slave for days of playing time to get people to even consider it.

Sorry for the derail, that made me sigh happily.
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Brokkr

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Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #32 on: February 25, 2020, 05:11:17 PM »
Maybe it would help if staff weighed in on this and let us know if this is likely the issue at hand. Brokkr?

Without bonus's, the system works fairly well.  With bonuses, from a variety of things, the stacking can make it work much more to the favor of the hiding person.  Given the way scan works, quick fixes like capping would likely result in an uproar.

DesertT

  • Posts: 899
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #33 on: February 25, 2020, 05:48:28 PM »
Without bonus's, the system works fairly well.  With bonuses, from a variety of things, the stacking can make it work much more to the favor of the hiding person.  Given the way scan works, quick fixes like capping would likely result in an uproar.
Not looking for a quick fix.

Would just like it to be looked into.

Again, at least one peek, probably more per opened container, multiple opened containers, multiple steals.... not one hint.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2020, 08:14:51 PM by DesertT »
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kahuna

  • Posts: 229
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #34 on: February 25, 2020, 06:56:40 PM »
An easy and fairly quick solution would be making using the no_hide room flag on more rooms where it's obvious hiding there would be almost impossible. Most taverns should be no_hide, it's a big open room with tables like a restaurant where the hell are you hiding under someones table? Obviously the streets are a different story. But apartment entrances, rooms that are like just Hallways with torches lining it would have literally no where to hide but the code allows you to hide there. It's jarring and I understand why scanners would want a buff but I think this is a better solution because I'm typically always in favor in making it harder to find someone than easier.

Brokkr

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Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #35 on: February 25, 2020, 08:07:09 PM »
Taverns are also crowded, which is sort of the opposite of no_hide.

Harmless

  • Posts: 2845
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #36 on: February 25, 2020, 10:35:24 PM »
yeah, i've long been a proponent that hiding probably means in city settings just not being suspicious at all. It's akin to disguise or distract or lying/deceipt. You're just a vnPC.
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Harmless

  • Posts: 2845
Re: Master Scan?
« Reply #37 on: February 25, 2020, 10:41:26 PM »
imms, if you guys do decide to put no_hide on more rooms around the gameworld, which I am fine with, maybe we need:


nosave_vis: Not intentionally breaking hidden status by following.

That way if you're stalking someone to try and kill them and they are walking into an area you know you won't stay hidden in, you won't follow them if on.
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