Author Topic: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill  (Read 587 times)

mansa

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New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« on: February 02, 2020, 05:13:00 PM »
Bludgeoning weapons has the sap skill
Stabbing weapons have the backstab skill
Slashing weapons have the riposte skill
Chopping weapons have the hack skill

I suggest that piercing weapons have a combat skill of its own.


I'm not sure exactly what sort of combat skill or stance it could be.  I might even say you need to "equipment two-handed" or "etwo" a spear weapon for the stance to work properly.  But I think it would be cool to give people an option when they personalize their characters as a two-handed spear type of character.
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Bushranger

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2020, 03:53:07 AM »
I always through that backstabbing was the piercing weapons combat skill. It was the original weapons style skill and as the first was the inspiration for sap and then later for riposte and for hack. As the first it came with the idea that not all piercing weapons would be suitable as piercing weapons also covered arrows, throwing knives and thrown javelins/spears so the idea of having stabbing weapons as a subset of piercing was developed. When the later weapon-type combat skills were implemented this idea of a subset wasn't carried over so slingstones, which are bludgeoning type weapons, can be used to sap. Throwing axes can be used to hack and whips (some of which are classed as slashing weapons) can be used to riposte. It leaves the stabbing subset for the backstab skill as an old and odd system and there are some two-handed spears that have the stabbing type and some that do not. I think rather than coming up with another unknown weapon based combat skill just unify the piercing/stabbing weapons so that all of them can be used with backstab the same as all bludgeoning weapons can sap, all slashing weapons can riposte and all chopping weapons can hack.
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roughneck

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2020, 08:27:35 AM »
Backstab mentioned.

And poison.

Brokkr

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2020, 11:33:44 AM »
unify the piercing/stabbing weapons so that all of them can be used with backstab

There is a reason that this isn't really that easy or optimal.

kahuna

  • Posts: 229
Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2020, 11:37:21 AM »
What would make the most sense is a similar attack to 'hack' just called 'thrust'. This would differ in the sense that it doesn't damage armor but pierces through it just giving you an extra attack at the cost of movement points.

Thrust
You thrust your heavy bone spear at the big ugly scrab.
The big ugly scrab dodges your pierce.

The difference being that thrust doesn't require a humanoid like hack does and could be used against monsters or humanoids.

th3kaiser

  • Posts: 455
Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2020, 12:58:22 PM »
I'd be down for a cripple ability. Succeed and you stab that bastard right in the leg. Slows down movement speed until healed? Something like that. I loves me some utility.

mansa

  • Posts: 9805
Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2020, 01:17:42 PM »
Thrust seems cool - a single strike outwards.
Maybe a move that would give a reel type of attack.

Or maybe a defensive stance that helps give a block against bash attacks.   (place the butt end of the spear to the ground, bracing for impact, etc, etc)

What other cool moves could there be?  I still think a move that would promote a particular playstyle of two-handed spears would be cool.
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Halcyon

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2020, 03:11:44 PM »
Long spears, pikes and polearms really shine in medieval group combat.   Especially when combatants are wearing helmets, pole weapons generate attacks at blind spots caused by those helms.  You are safe from the spear in front of you.  The spear behind the second shieldman over can strike you -hard- without you ever seeing it coming.

I'd suggest a piercing ability that is easier to use the more people are in the fight, and if successful, bypasses parry defenses.

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Dune Bunny

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2020, 03:12:27 PM »

What other cool moves could there be?  I still think a move that would promote a particular playstyle of two-handed spears would be cool.

Perhaps a move that promotes the distance created by a two-handed thruster? Maybe it'd slow down opponent attacks when successful, as a way of signifying that they're having to work their way around the reach of the 2H-spear?

Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2020, 03:45:09 PM »
How about:

hinder <foe>

At the cost of 10-30 (based on skill) stamina and a delay if it fails, attempt to catch an enemy by surprise and either:
33% - Catch them in the wrist, causing a delay in their next attack.
33% - Catch them in the foot, causing a temporary lowering of flee chance.
34% - Catch them in the chest, winding them and decreasing their stamina.

Higher chance of success in group combat, fail causes you to stumble and delay your next hit, critical fail causes you to lean too hard into the hit and fall prone. Critical fail vs someone with high Hinder gets your weapon hooked aside, opening you up to a higher crit chance on their next turn.

High advance, you're able to specify which hinder you want to do, i.e.:

hinder <foe> <foot/hand/chest>

Specifying lowers your chance of finding an opening, but allows - well - higher control over what you want to happen.

---

[sdesc] catches your wristbone with [pronoun] [weapon], causing you to flinch!
[sdesc] catches your ankle with [pronoun] [weapon], and you stumble, pain coursing through your foot.
[sdesc] catches your ribcage with [pronoun] [weapon], and you feel breathless momentarily.

You try to catch [sdesc]'s [area], but your [jab/stab/pierce] goes wide, causing you to fumble briefly!
You try to catch [sdesc]'s [area], but lean too heavily into the thrust and fall forward!
You try to catch [sdesc]'s [area], but they hook your weapon aside, leaving you open!
« Last Edit: February 03, 2020, 03:53:49 PM by MatisseOrOtherwise »
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Cind

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2020, 04:36:43 PM »
I'm sort of waiting on a new combat skill or change being put into the game that then destroys everyone who comes across it for two weeks before they manage to fix it.

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Bogre

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2020, 02:50:40 PM »
'Ward'

> Skill using spears / tridents against nonhumanoids, causing them to have an extra attack delay or lose a round's attack.

You ward off a desert-striped tarantula's advances with your spear, hampering its attack!
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Heade

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2020, 04:40:36 PM »
Yeah, something like Bogre's idea wouldn't be bad. I wouldn't want to see something with 33%/33%/33% different effects, because it'd be unreliable to do what you wanted it to do, and all the other abilities reliably have one effect if they succeed.
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Brokkr

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #13 on: February 04, 2020, 06:53:52 PM »
We did consider a "piercing weapons" skill when we were putting in place hack and riposte, that would be for non-stab weapons.

It was nothing like any of these suggestions though.  And had some fundamental issues.

mansa

  • Posts: 9805
Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2020, 07:01:59 PM »
We did consider a "piercing weapons" skill when we were putting in place hack and riposte, that would be for non-stab weapons.

It was nothing like any of these suggestions though.  And had some fundamental issues.

Cool.  So you're saying there's a chance!

What were the issues that came up?  Is there something we should brainstorm around?

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Brokkr

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2020, 07:11:38 PM »
Imagine a world where there is a counter to riding folks.

Then imagine how on Zalanthas you would train up such a skill.

Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2020, 07:40:20 PM »
Easy. Make riding mobs.
Goudra on gortok. Kagor on raptors.
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lostinspace

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2020, 08:12:49 PM »
Imagine a world where there is a counter to riding folks.

Then imagine how on Zalanthas you would train up such a skill.

I for one welcome the gith mounted archer invasion.
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Brokkr

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2020, 10:11:24 PM »
Gith can't ride due to the anatomy of their legs.

mansa

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2020, 10:19:33 PM »
Perhaps it could be used as a passive defense against various attacks.

You get a chance to get a bonus defense against trample
You get a chance to get a bonus defense against bash

etc
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Halcyon

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Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2020, 11:50:47 PM »
Imagine a world where there is a counter to riding folks.

Then imagine how on Zalanthas you would train up such a skill.

I know!

A half giant with a harpoon tied to his belt with 30 feet of rope.   Sometimes they unmount riders, sometimes they get drug into the silt.
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roughneck

  • Posts: 850
Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2020, 05:53:32 AM »
Imagine a world where there is a counter to riding folks.

Then imagine how on Zalanthas you would train up such a skill.

Imagine gith and delves with this skill.

AdamBlue

  • Posts: 850
Re: New 'Piercing Weapon Only' combat skill
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2020, 11:03:19 AM »
A piercing weapon's primary benefit is that it is a weapon even if you hold it still and allow an enemy to charge into it. Imagine having a 'brace' command that allowed one to 'brace' a direction with a piercing weapon and stab the first thing that came in from said direction, almost like Guard but in reverse. That way, if you see a scrab is approaching, you can brace your spear, and when it comes in, you automatically stab it directly in the body. Now, this does have potential for mistakes; For example, bracing for an enemy and then a comrade comes running into the spear wall and gets wrecked, so make it have an obvious visibilty on 'look'.
the tall man is bracing his weapon to the east
That way, a spear-wall would actually be an incredibly viable tactic when dealing with charging enemies, and could also add some utility for heavier armor and shield-users to rush in in large-combat scenarios to block or defend against blows.

While this is good and all...

I think we need 3 more combat abilities that coincide with:

Shield-Use
Dual-Wield
Two-Handed.


I propose Shield-Use (Whack):An attack much like Kick that uses your shield to strike a foe. Can actually make use of a spiked-shield's ability to do piercing instead of bludgeoning damage. Damages your shield greatly on a failure, damages it slightly on success. Doesn't knock anyone over, but can cause delay much as if they tried to do a kick themselves, which can lead to them taking slightly longer to try a manuver of their own.
Dual-Wield (Feint): An attack that attempts to bypass the parry skill, using two blades. Using the first blade to feint instead of strike, you can make the second strike much more accurate when attempting to fight a foe trying to strictly parry and dodge. Does NOT work on blocking from a shield, making it less effective.
Two-Handed (Ward): A defensive weapon skill that gives a large boost when wielding a weapon in two hands, that scales in contrast to how many foes you are fighting. The more enemies you fight, the larger boost to defense that Ward gives you, to represent wielding a large weapon and swinging it dangerously around to keep foes at bay for a short while. On a failure, you ineffectively swing the weapon around, doing nothing but still preventing you from attacking for a short while.