Author Topic: Weapon Repair  (Read 886 times)

mansa

  • Posts: 9773
Weapon Repair
« on: December 20, 2019, 03:56:30 PM »
Hey,

I'd like to see weapons get 'dull' and need to be sharpened.
I'd like to see bows and crossbows have a limited number of shots allowed before it needs to get restrung.
I'd like to see clubs splinter.


I wouldn't mind seeing mundane tools anyone could use to sharpen slashing/piercing/chopping weapons - maybe it could also take into account the sword making/knife crafting/axe making skills.
I wouldn't mind seeing bows and crossbows have to be 'fixed' by using a tool AND using their bow_crafting skills.


What do you think?
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X-D

  • Posts: 5705
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2019, 06:47:03 PM »
Why?

I often wonder if people ask themselves, What exactly is this actually -Adding- to the game?

Also, who decides the numbers? How many hits on what till it gets "dull" How many shots before the string wears out? Is there a way to simply take care of the item?

What happens when it gets "dull"?

Now here is some perspective.

I have never had to replace a string on any of my bows, not even the crossbows...I take care of them. Some of them have had literally thousands of shots off them.

What happens when an already dull bone sword gets "dull" Does it become a club? Or an axe...and what about clubs?

The only thing I see it adding to the game is unnecessary, overcomplicated annoyance...as if we did not have enough of that from crafting/brew, Poisons, food, spice rotting etc etc etc.
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kahuna

  • Posts: 218
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #2 on: December 20, 2019, 08:53:51 PM »
Tools degrade in quality. I would love to see weapon durability added. In fact weapons should break far more often than they do.

Strongheart

  • Posts: 286
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #3 on: December 20, 2019, 11:40:50 PM »
An interesting suggestion though why fix what ain't broke? Literally! While I think that addition isn't necessarily bad, it'd be extra work coders would have to hash out for something that is more a quality of life revert if anything to hack n' slash gameplay -- not to mention a concept hardly popular enough to entertain.

In a world like Zalanthas, I'd wager that most of its inhabitants treat their weapons with care like X-D here and even if they didn't, you'd have to imagine just how incredibly sturdy a Sun Runner's war club must be to not splinter against megafauna. Suspended disblief aside, it's clear that physics don't work the same way in Zalanthas as they do on Earth.

While I believe more consideration could go into repurposing things (such as being able to repurpose one weapon into another like gith equipment or fashioning a dagger into the head of a spear) repairing weaponary would be an unnecessary chore. Wouldn't you find the effort somewhat convoluted to repair something that could so easily be stolen, lost, traded, replaced etc. when there are so many weapons available to you anyway? While a Zalanthan may treasure an item, they are at the end of the day objects that are meant for survival as opposed to luxury unless they're uppercrust or particular though that varies from character to character. Not to mention artifacts... let's not go into those.

Alright, let's also take code into account! There are already so many variables (often random) that come into combat anyhow and an addition such as this would overcomplicate the system. Imagine being Runners in the T'zai Byn where their sparring weapons keep going into disrepair due to how much they're used, why would they be taken care of when losing your sparring weapon is punishable? It can be expensive stuff and you can bet most Bynners are too poor or too cheap for that.

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on it, I just feel the cons outweigh the pros in this case. Plus nothing is stopping you from RPing your weapon as being destroyed or in need of repair! And that's my two sids on the matter.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 12:01:50 AM by Strongheart »

kahuna

  • Posts: 218
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #4 on: December 21, 2019, 09:31:37 AM »
An interesting suggestion though why fix what ain't broke? Literally! While I think that addition isn't necessarily bad, it'd be extra work coders would have to hash out for something that is more a quality of life revert if anything to hack n' slash gameplay -- not to mention a concept hardly popular enough to entertain.
Have you done some sort of study to claim that this isn't a popular enough idea? Any polls or anything or are you just making a baseless claim?

Quote
In a world like Zalanthas, I'd wager that most of its inhabitants treat their weapons with care like X-D here and even if they didn't, you'd have to imagine just how incredibly sturdy a Sun Runner's war club must be to not splinter against megafauna. Suspended disblief aside, it's clear that physics don't work the same way in Zalanthas as they do on Earth.
Just because it isn't coded doesn't mean the world has some sort of super hard wood or obsidian. Armor degrades and breaks because durability is coded for armor. Likewise we can assume the same with weapons. Anytime anyone levies realism or earth-like comparisons the excuse is always "This is a fantasy world." but that doesn't fly with normal discussion. You can't just hand wave everything and say it is a fantasy game so we shouldn't worry about realism.


Quote
Alright, let's also take code into account! There are already so many variables (often random) that come into combat anyhow and an addition such as this would overcomplicate the system. Imagine being Runners in the T'zai Byn where their sparring weapons keep going into disrepair due to how much they're used, why would they be taken care of when losing your sparring weapon is punishable? It can be expensive stuff and you can bet most Bynners are too poor or too cheap for that.
The Byn literally have a day called Weapons Maintenance where they dedicate an entire afternoon to taking care of their weapons. This amounts to mostly idling, afks, and a few emotes. Implementing Mansa's idea would solve this down time and actually give them something to do.

Quote
Anyway, those are some of my thoughts on it, I just feel the cons outweigh the pros in this case. Plus nothing is stopping you from RPing your weapon as being destroyed or in need of repair! And that's my two sids on the matter.
Nothing is stopping players from roleplaying that their shields are being broken down either. But guess what shields do break eventually, and there is even a combat skill specifically designed to destroy shields. This is a MUD not a MUSH we incorporate coded systems to support the realistic systems and physics that the world portrays. We have a climb skill with checks, you don't just emote climbing up the shield wall. We have numerous other coded skills to support players not having to roll a d20 in front of a storyteller. These automatic systems work very well, and while I think weapon degradation and durability needs to be discussed at a higher level within staff and by coders, Arm should definitely without a doubt have it.

kahuna

  • Posts: 218
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #5 on: December 21, 2019, 09:38:41 AM »

I have never had to replace a string on any of my bows, not even the crossbows...I take care of them. Some of them have had literally thousands of shots off them.

What happens when an already dull bone sword gets "dull" Does it become a club? Or an axe...and what about clubs?

The only thing I see it adding to the game is unnecessary, overcomplicated annoyance...as if we did not have enough of that from crafting/brew, Poisons, food, spice rotting etc etc etc.

It's fine that your bows and crossbows never wear out but according to this article that is patently false: https://www.archery360.com/2017/04/03/determine-bow-needs-maintenance/

Now these are modern bows that require maintenance, I am sure that 10,000 years ago bows wore out and required restringing as well.

mansa

  • Posts: 9773
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #6 on: December 21, 2019, 10:24:54 AM »
It's also...

A money sink  (what do you mean i have to pay for repairs?)
A "event" or "thing to do"  (what do you mean I need to repair my gear?)
A "social event" (what do you mean I need to find a bow crafter / sword maker to repair it once it got below 20% durability?)


In terms of "frequency of weapon degration" - that's just a variable you can adjust.   Have it after x number of shots or x number of combat rounds/parries/hits.
You could have 20 shots before it needs repair, or 1000 combat rounds.  *shrug*

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Riev

  • Posts: 5635
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #7 on: December 21, 2019, 10:36:12 AM »
I'm down for the consistency.
Armor breaks down when hit hard enough
Tools break down when you fail in a craft (that requires them, at least)

Weapons DO break, but it seems like they break only if they somehow parry a damaging enough attack to break their base hardness.

I can imagine an 'easy' implementation, that is shitty, and a 'robust' implementation that sounds like way more work than it needs to be. I'm down with the discussion being had, though, rather than "don't change things because it would be an inconvenience".
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Strongheart

  • Posts: 286
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2019, 10:47:14 AM »
I can almost guarantee you the majority of the active playerbase would not care for code that stipulates having to repair weapons, a poll could be run right now and the result would lean in favor of no change to weapons in that way. You already have to grind consistently and it wouldn't be any more enjoyable by slowing it down with not only yet another financial struggle but also a time constraint with, as said before, numerous upon numerous variables.

And no, if the weapons are breaking the armor than the weapon would have to be more resilient than the armor itself, otherwise how could bone even scathe or match obsidian armament? There's a skill that even focuses on dealing damage to armor itself, so you believe the niche use of axes should be nerfed in this sense by giving them durability versus the armor they're facing? Give me a break! Weapon types exist for a reason and that's the gamier bits of Arm upon the many things that are gamey. But anyhow, in reality, you'd be going for the weak points: the openings in the armor or other unarmored areas, though in this game combat is too random codedly for that to be the case. If armor worked as it is "supposed to" in the reality presented, there'd be almost zero reason to wear anything but the densest of armors that won't be pierced, hacked, slashed, or bludgeoned and whatever is closest to plate would reign supreme because for very, very obvious reasons, plate wasn't replaced until firearms were invented.

Weapon Maintenance is a Byn activity certainly, but it requires no actual in-game currency -- only roleplay and a small implementation of a grindstone here or there. Would you suggest making weapon repair in tangent with armor repair? That's even more code for volunteers to plop in there that just isn't necessary to facilitate RP.

Basically what I'm saying is that the combat code itself would need to change in order for weapon degradation to make sense because the systems offered simply do not support that feature. It'd actually favor certain styles of play more so than they already are! Clearly, a combat overhaul isn't currently in the works as many players have brought up in the past who consider the combat code in this game to be remarkably unfair and those interested in PvP have spoke their piece on that throughout the years of the game's existence. Pull back to someone like Namino who has demonstrated the deeper flaws of combat in Armageddon, his is the only name I can toss in here without scrubbing the forums but believe you me if this change was wanted it would have been discussed long before now. Even as people change and times change, this particular game isn't suited for that bit of code. I'm always down for new things but this is unwarranted to the current existing mechanics, and if you want "realistic systems and physics that the world portrays" where is bleed code? Gone! Case and point it just wouldn't belong because it'd make other existing mechanics in the game pointless such as poisons and... I could just ramble on forever as to why.

X-D

  • Posts: 5705
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #9 on: December 21, 2019, 05:14:49 PM »
I never said they did not need maintenance, in fact I specifically stated they did.

Quote
Also, who decides the numbers? How many hits on what till it gets "dull" How many shots before the string wears out? Is there a way to simply take care of the item?

What happens when it gets "dull"?

Now here is some perspective.

I have never had to replace a string on any of my bows, not even the crossbows...I take care of them. Some of them have had literally thousands of shots off them.

While I was specifically replying to Mansa
Quote
I'd like to see bows and crossbows have a limited number of shots allowed before it needs to get restrung.

Being, what is the number of shots, who decides, is there a way to prolong that by what should be a VERY long time through simple care?

Is this though for more then just adding annoyance? Money sink being yet another annoyance, like tools degrading, 99% of the time the tool degrades for some nonsense reason and degrades WAY WAY WAY too much.

But X-D, it is to help tool crafters and the like, weapons makers and repairers...Yadda.

I often have PCs tell mine they make tools, and that's nice, I'd deal with them if I crafted, but I don't because that mini game has gotten too annoying to bother with.

Armor and shields getting damaged happens very slowly, is it annoying to take it for repair, yes, but it is slow enough, if I know a PC that can repair them I might. But mostly now days I mostly just buy cheap gear that I can easily replace.

Personally I think all these things detract from the arm RP experience...every bit of added code means one must deal with the code RP more rather then the social. I liked when I could spend maybe 20% of my time actively thinking of/dealing with code and the rest on the social scene, It has not been that way in a while.

P.S. I have had two bows that should have had strings replaced, but they were a few years old and new tech was out so I sold them instead and purchased shiny and new.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 05:16:34 PM by X-D »
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Riev

  • Posts: 5635
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #10 on: December 21, 2019, 07:16:19 PM »
Most of what you said, X-D, seems to be "I don't engage with this part of the game, so I don't want that to intrude on the part of the game I enjoy".

If you take out "who decides", and put that on staff to figure it out, the idea of weapons degrading as armor and tools do would at least be consistent. Is your argument that you were against the degradation in the first place?

As it stands, I'm totally down with some sort of armor and weapon maintenance tool or macguffin that makes it harder for it to wear down. You go to get your obsidian vest repaired if it gets a crack, because a spider bit down too hard, but otherwise it doesn't really wear down. Same with swords, unless you're smacking the crap out of a training dummy as hard as you can, they should take a while to "go dull".

Currently, though, the weapons don't. They are either broken, or not. There is no wear state, even if its a meaningless "used/dulled/rounded/Its-a-club-its-fine".
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

kahuna

  • Posts: 218
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #11 on: December 21, 2019, 07:36:12 PM »
Here is a proposal that took me all of 5 minutes. Weapons have 4 total states, ranging from perfect condition to ruined. 100% to 25%. At 25% it can no longer be repaired
by PCs and has a 50/50 chance to shatter with every hit that lands. Every hit that lands has a 10% chance to lower the state by 1%. So if you land 20 hits you have
a 10% chance to lower it by 20 points.

Slashing weapons
100% - an obsidian sword
80% - a worn obsidian sword
50% - a dull obsidian sword
25% a ruined obsidian sword

Bludgeoning Weapons
100% - a stone hammer
80% - a worn stone hammer
50% - a chipped stone hammer
25% - a ruined stone hammer

Chopping Weapons
100% - an obsidian axe
80% - a worn obsidian axe
50% - a dull obsidian axe
25% a ruined obsidian axe


Piercing Weapons
No maintenance required, most points stay pointy. This could also be seen as a 'buff' to arguably the
weakest weapon type.

The weapon_repair skill would function similarly to armor repair. Repairing at a Salarr shop
could repair at 25% but players could never repair at 25%.

Edit: you could control for material type of the weapon. Obsidian and stone could be higher like 20% chance to lower 1 point. Bone and wood much lower maybe 10%-5% chances?

JohnMichaelHenry

  • Posts: 204
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #12 on: December 21, 2019, 08:36:46 PM »
I get what X-D is saying. All this stuff like armor repair and weapon repair ends up translating into forcing players to do tedious things that aren't very fun. For example, if there was an argument to make needing to eat food and drink water more realistic, we'd have to eat and drink all the time or starve and thirst to death. Seems like there has already been a change made to the amount of food we need to eat to stay full. Could be wrong on that, but it feels like I need to eat more than I used to have to. So that translates into me needing to spend time and coins trying to find food and water constantly, if its overdone. Same would be for weapon repair. I think most folks probably would do the same thing they do now with armor. Just buy new, rather than worry about walking around with patched stuff.
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X-D

  • Posts: 5705
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #13 on: December 21, 2019, 08:53:59 PM »
Huh...you meant already arguably the strongest weapon type right Kahuna? Heh. I love when people don't understand the bonuses of something and so use it wrong and think it is the failing of the weapon type.

Riev, I engage in that part of the game as little as possible BECAUSE the changes have made it un-enjoyable, not because it was un-enjoyable to start. I used to like having Brew and some small crafts on my PCs, I don't anymore.

As to the who decides, I know that staff decides, that does not mean they will be right, or even close to it.

Why would it matter if it is consistent? I argue that none of it actually -adds- to the game, putting in yet another annoyance to detract from the game for the sake of consistency is not a good argument IMO. It is just as easy to argue it would be consistent to remove armor degrading in order to be consistent...since weapons don't degrade.

The ONLY degrade code that I think was neutral is food, yes, it is annoying, forcing one to hunt or find some other manner to get food FAR more then they used to, less RP, more code grind...woohoo. But, at the same time, food used to build up to totally silly levels in clans and other areas... and a few other things, so on that -one- thing I think the pros and cons balance.

The most interesting part to me of these threads is...nobody ever comes up with the why it should be added, How exactly is this going to improve the enjoyment and roleplay of the players, hopefully a majority of players?
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
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kahuna

  • Posts: 218
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #14 on: December 21, 2019, 08:59:30 PM »
Quote
Huh...you meant already arguably the strongest weapon type right Kahuna? Heh. I love when people don't understand the bonuses of something and so use it wrong and think it is the failing of the weapon type.
I'm sorry but unless staff want to come and confirm this is pure speculation. From my experiences piercing is by far one of the worst weapon types to use.

Riev

  • Posts: 5635
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #15 on: December 21, 2019, 09:00:39 PM »
I think you are wrong, X-D, about people saying "Why it would be good". You simply don't agree with why it would be good.

That is different from not having ideas on the why. You do not like the changes. Cool. You are against feature creep. Cool.

You disagreeing simply because "I didn't like it when it was first done, and I don't like it now" isn't a reason NOT to, either.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #16 on: December 21, 2019, 09:25:51 PM »
IMHO, It wouldn't be worth the time to track down and coordinate a repair. There are a lot of things that have to be tracked down and coordinated as it is. A lot of coded maintenance that does not add anything meaningful to my role play experience. Cannot think of a single time it has. I'd rather buy a new bone sword every single time than endure even MORE easter egg hunt for PC with coded skill then play the time synch game.

I have never, ever said, "Man I'm glad I had to repair my armor that lead to a very rich roleplaying experience."

More coded hoops bad. I'd be against adding more coded hoops. Just let me roleplay my weapons needing polish.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2019, 09:33:17 PM by only_plays_tribals »
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John

  • Posts: 4257
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2019, 09:37:33 PM »
Weapons DO break, but it seems like they break only if they somehow parry a damaging enough attack to break their base hardness.
I'd be curious how often do weapons actually break. The documented dominant fighting style for the only remaining city in the entire game is centered around avoiding the downsides of dealing with your weapon breaking.

Funnily enough, lots of people seem to use shields and two-handed weapons instead of dual wielding. Could this be because the documented reason for this style existing is as rare as hen's teeth? Or are the advantages of the other fighting styles just so good that there's no reason to bother with dual wielding?

I'd personally like to either see the code updated to better reflect the documentation. Or update the documentation so we're not all playing the exception and using codedly superior fighting styles.

Or perhaps dual wielding is a great weapon style and people just avoid it because they don't understand it's benefits.

Kyviantre

  • Posts: 400
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2019, 10:10:43 PM »
More micromanaging of stuff is rarely advantageous.  I loathe it so much!  The game time is so much more sped up than real life, simple conversations can take an IG day...so I rather prefer to assume all the micromanaging of equipment, peeing, sleeping, catching up with family, de-lousing the family pet rat, etc etc etc, is done in the background as flavour.  Sure, these things can be fun to RP out...if RP needs a boost, but it is nice to do it as flavour, not as a needs-to-or-else.  Similarly, some are good for 'reasons to explain why I gotta log out'!

Bogging funtimes down with more "Urgh, I have to find another PC who has this specific skill, is in my area of the world, AND has my playtimes??", is very much a no-no-no-no-no vote from me.  It is hard enough to coordinate the big things, let alone anything that requires frequent scheduling.

Let people RP.  Don't force micromanaging down throats.  Freedom and choice for roleplay please!
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kahuna

  • Posts: 218
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2019, 10:17:34 PM »
Weapons DO break, but it seems like they break only if they somehow parry a damaging enough attack to break their base hardness.
I'd be curious how often do weapons actually break. The documented dominant fighting style for the only remaining city in the entire game is centered around avoiding the downsides of dealing with your weapon breaking.

Funnily enough, lots of people seem to use shields and two-handed weapons instead of dual wielding. Could this be because the documented reason for this style existing is as rare as hen's teeth? Or are the advantages of the other fighting styles just so good that there's no reason to bother with dual wielding?

I'd personally like to either see the code updated to better reflect the documentation. Or update the documentation so we're not all playing the exception and using codedly superior fighting styles.

Or perhaps dual wielding is a great weapon style and people just avoid it because they don't understand it's benefits.

My assessment is that two handed is ridiculously overpowered in comparison to every other fighting style and has been for some time.

Heade

  • Posts: 843
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2019, 10:24:38 PM »
IMHO, It wouldn't be worth the time to track down and coordinate a repair. There are a lot of things that have to be tracked down and coordinated as it is. A lot of coded maintenance that does not add anything meaningful to my role play experience. Cannot think of a single time it has. I'd rather buy a new bone sword every single time than endure even MORE easter egg hunt for PC with coded skill then play the time synch game.

I have never, ever said, "Man I'm glad I had to repair my armor that lead to a very rich roleplaying experience."

More coded hoops bad. I'd be against adding more coded hoops. Just let me roleplay my weapons needing polish.

Yeah, pretty much this. While breaking weapons from time to time might be realistic, I don't think it would lead to anything that enriches my gaming experience. It'd just be another annoying maintenance thing that harms the quality of life element of playing the game.

And I can attest that only_plays_tribals will RP their weapons needing polished. :D
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X-D

  • Posts: 5705
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #21 on: December 22, 2019, 01:36:00 AM »
Heh, I would say I am against feature creep...but it is far to late.
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Lizzie:
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Dar

  • Posts: 1540
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2019, 02:58:59 AM »
I've very keen to providing crafters a way to ply their skills and be an asset to others without crafting items that in reality nobody actually wants.

What I would suggest is give armor repair and weapon repair an ability to 'improve' the item beyond it's regular stats.


So if you maintain the armor, or weapons. Not only do you make them last longer, you actually give a tiny bonus to them. Make the armor a stone, or two lighter. Make the weapon have a +1 to accuracy. Something small and yet welcome enough.

If you dont maintain the weapons/armor enough, at first they'll lose the extra buff. Then they will begin to degrade further, growing less and less effective.

Allow the NPCs repair the items, but not give the buff. Allow the PC skilled ones give the weapons a buff.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1998
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2019, 05:26:41 AM »
Give it a +5 or something to damage for a perfectly maintained weapon. Disappears in a few hits, like 3 or 4 hits. Then from there like 50 hits before you need to 'fix sword'

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 108
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2019, 10:32:53 AM »
This falls into the category of coded shaving, to me. It's realistic, but I don't really want to have to go do that in-game. I'll RP it the few times I want to.

A 'sharpen' skill, as suggested, that tacked on a + to skill or attack or damage or something would be nice, but I'm not sure it solves any problem, which has to be the beginning point of coded change.

X-D

  • Posts: 5705
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #25 on: December 22, 2019, 12:46:30 PM »
Quote
I'm sorry but unless staff want to come and confirm this is pure speculation. From my experiences piercing is by far one of the worst weapon types to use.

And in my experience, when used...let us say, on the right type of PC, it is easily the best...far from speculation. And no, I do not mean a certain class either.

Or, in short, ya doin it wrong bud. :)
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
Lizzie:
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Gentleboy

  • Posts: 81
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #26 on: December 22, 2019, 02:15:10 PM »
I am all for something that will give heavy mercantile classes more power. I am not a smarty on code or anything of the matter, but, socially I like the idea. Also, it could help the economy of some places with others needing to resupply their weapon stocks. Especially with sparring weapons.

Also, perhaps custom weapons would be more sought after? Not sure what the bonus or degrade rate would be, but I'm sure depending on the request and material, it would be case by case.

Bogre

  • Posts: 3317
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #27 on: December 22, 2019, 04:44:35 PM »
The need to repair weapons/armor in Atonement did not overwhelmingly destroy the items, people's fun or the game.
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X-D

  • Posts: 5705
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #28 on: December 22, 2019, 07:23:48 PM »
How does that apply to the discussion? Atonement started with it, So, if you went to play that mud it is because that is what you wanted.
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Bogre

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Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #29 on: December 22, 2019, 09:02:53 PM »
I imagine if you went to play that mud it was because you wanted a space horror RPI, rather than item damage code. And if Armageddon only had things it started with, well: you can see the problem there. This is about adding a feature (item wear). Valid arguments against it would be "I would find it burdensome" or "I don't think it adds much realism for the work".

The post is relevant because it showed an example where it wasn't extremely burdensome.

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X-D

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Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #30 on: December 23, 2019, 06:12:37 PM »
Opinion.

I found it burdensome. Along with many other things of course. As was mentioned before, feature creep.

Is armor degrading extremely burdensome on its own...no, neither is food rotting, torches and lanterns blowing out in a ridiculous manner, tools degrading, having to wander the world to get a bunch of items that make little sense to make one poison cure and likely fail...spice rotting...why, who knows, it came from the ground. Poisons degrading. Etc etc.

None of these are "extremely burdensome" alone. Each is but a mild annoyance. Put together...yes, they are extremely burdensome.
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Lizzie:
If you -want- me to think that your character is a hybrid of a black kryl and a white push-broom shaped like a penis, then you've done a great job

Strongheart

  • Posts: 286
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #31 on: December 23, 2019, 11:20:07 PM »
None of these are "extremely burdensome" alone. Each is but a mild annoyance. Put together...yes, they are extremely burdensome.

Exactly! I was trolling a bit about how it's not something players want to an extreme degree, but rather it is something a player must realize they wouldn't want once they have it. I personally hate that spice expires, but this change was due to player responsibility and not the reality of the world. I wish there would have been more discussion concerning that change before enacted! As for poisons expiring, I'd be fine with it if weren't for the amount of time and danger it takes to procure the ingredients for them, apply them to a weapon successfully or not, and then actually use them effectively. The poison change also occurred for inappropriate use if I'm not mistaken!

Mr. Fancypants

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Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2019, 12:04:43 AM »
Being honest, spice expiring does way more harm than good. It also doesn't make much sense when you consider its origins in general, and the idea of it being stored and packed into warehouses before movement.

If it must expire, it should at least have a lifetime that is quintuple what it is currently.  As it is now, you might as well not bother buying spice unless you plan to smoke it all within a short time frame. Leaving it in a spice box on a table for the timer to relentlessly tick means you'll have no spice within a few IG weeks or a month, depending on the size (pinch, knot, etc). Bricks last longest but don't even fit into spice boxes, so you can't store them properly.

Since the market is so heavily PC-reliant in certain areas, that makes spice use an extremely cumbersome and wasteful exercise in frustration. If you try to stock up, you'll never smoke it all before it goes bad. If you don't stock up, you'll go IG months and sometimes years before the PC market gets back up and running from the latest collapse.

Let people stock up on spice for at least 3-5 IG years, left in spice boxes, on the table, including pinches. It still solves the problem of save rooms full of spice that's 3 ages old, without turning spice acquisition into a frustrating chore.


edit: well shit, this is a complete tangent from the original topic.
« Last Edit: December 24, 2019, 12:08:21 AM by Mr. Fancypants »

HeeBeeGB

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Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2019, 01:22:34 AM »
Might be cool to have rooms that are sorts of 'Humidors' for spice. Meaning all spice in that room lasts much longer. The sort of room reserved for Nobility / Templars / Spice-Movers.

Riev

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Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2019, 09:04:08 AM »
I don't know about you all, but I don't buy my heroin and then sit on it for a month before getting crazy.
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Lizzie

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Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2019, 10:01:23 AM »
I don't know about you all, but I don't buy my heroin and then sit on it for a month before getting crazy.

Heroin isn't spice. It doesn't give you the coded benefits that spice gives you. Heroin is also not legal everywhere except for one city.

Spice is not intended to be realistic. It's intended to be a game-specific expansion of the spice used in Frank Herbert's Dune.
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kahuna

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Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #36 on: December 24, 2019, 10:07:34 AM »
I think Rievs point is that an addict doesn't typically store drugs or wait to use it patiently. They binge every little bit they can get. Spice may or may not decay at a high rate, I personally don't have any experience with it doing so. I've had spice sit in my spice kits for well over a RL week. 2 RL weeks would be a month so if it decays around that time I think that's fine. Perhaps people shouldn't be stock piling spice in general? If ICly the spice decays at that rate then it is coded to do so. If it ICly decays at a slower rate then the code needs to be looked at for errors.


Mr. Fancypants

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Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #37 on: December 24, 2019, 01:18:46 PM »
Spice is used for multiple purposes, and pretending that only desperate addicts smoke it is ignoring the larger issue. The issue is that coded timers and a PC-reliant economy don't mix.

Strongheart

  • Posts: 286
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #38 on: December 24, 2019, 07:12:02 PM »
Spice is used for multiple purposes, and pretending that only desperate addicts smoke it is ignoring the larger issue. The issue is that coded timers and a PC-reliant economy don't mix.

Wholeheartedly agree! Spice just shouldn't have been altered in this way or at the very least to this degree. Quadrupling the lifetime may work! However, I still find it jarring to have stacks upon stacks of it stored someplace as it obviously reduces its value, so what can we do about that? Honestly it could be disposed of via VNPCs as an excuse for the spice stock dwindling so that way traders of spices have something to do every other week or so. I'll be the first to admit I've not got the best of suggesions when it comes to spice economics ;D #straightedge

Strongheart

  • Posts: 286
Re: Weapon Repair
« Reply #39 on: December 24, 2019, 07:14:00 PM »
Also! We should take this discussion to a new thread, I'll go ahead and startup one.