Author Topic: A Real Problem for Newbies  (Read 1921 times)

Lizzie

  • Posts: 8138
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #25 on: December 23, 2019, 02:56:05 PM »
Regarding the challenges newbies face with crafting, I agree with the below:
I want to say that the existing mechanism to learn this in game is to use the analyze skill.
Still, the analyze command allows characters to figure out recipes from stuff they find - a pretty realistic mechanism.
However, I thought I'd give a quick warning to newbies and fellow born-again newbies.  The Analyze help file says you will receive the "You cannot tell how that is made" echo for an item you don't have the coded skill to make.  You get no echo at all for an uncraftable item (confirmed again in the Notes section: If you don't receive a response, the object you are analyzing is not craftable).

Yet I know for certain there are some uncraftable items that will display "You cannot tell how that is made", making it appear to the newbie like the issue is with their coded skill and not that the object is truly uncraftable.  I don't think I've come across an example of the no echo situation since I've returned.  Personally, I think it would be helpful to reinstate the no echo - or even better, change it to "This item is uncraftable" so the PC knows it's just not possible, even if they had made alternative choices in chargen.

Actually if you get "You cannot tell how that is made" it could mean that it's probably only craftable if you're in a certain clan, and you're not in that clan. I believe VALUE will help you see who/what makes the item. Even if you're a master crafter, if you're not in that clan (or your character is not that race), then your character won't ever be able to craft it. It'll be craftable - just not by you.
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Zalanthan

  • Posts: 164
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #26 on: December 23, 2019, 03:08:45 PM »
Actually if you get "You cannot tell how that is made" it could mean that it's probably only craftable if you're in a certain clan, and you're not in that clan. I believe VALUE will help you see who/what makes the item. Even if you're a master crafter, if you're not in that clan (or your character is not that race), then your character won't ever be able to craft it. It'll be craftable - just not by you.
The Analyze help file says you will receive the "You do not recognize its craftsmanship" echo for those instances.  So if you are getting the "You cannot tell how that is made" echo for that result as well, it sounds like the Analyze help file may be misleading on clan-specific items too.  I haven't personally tried to analyze any clan-specific items (at least, not to my knowledge), but I can definitely confirm the issue with uncraftable items producing the wrong echo.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 8138
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #27 on: December 23, 2019, 03:24:24 PM »
Actually if you get "You cannot tell how that is made" it could mean that it's probably only craftable if you're in a certain clan, and you're not in that clan. I believe VALUE will help you see who/what makes the item. Even if you're a master crafter, if you're not in that clan (or your character is not that race), then your character won't ever be able to craft it. It'll be craftable - just not by you.
The Analyze help file says you will receive the "You do not recognize its craftsmanship" echo for those instances.  So if you are getting the "You cannot tell how that is made" echo for that result as well, it sounds like the Analyze help file may be misleading on clan-specific items too.  I haven't personally tried to analyze any clan-specific items (at least, not to my knowledge), but I can definitely confirm the issue with uncraftable items producing the wrong echo.

Oh that's right it was changed! I've gotten the "you cannot tell" message more than I ever get that "you don't recognize" message.
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rinthrat

  • Posts: 150
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #28 on: December 24, 2019, 04:30:27 AM »
I believe you always get "You cannot tell how X was made." now. That help file needs to be updated.

I don't like this change much. Yes, your character wouldn't know why they can't replicate something, but it gave the player some useful information about an awkward code issue. There is no IC reason your knife maker could make fany knife X but not shitty obsidian knife Y, and it was helpful for the player to know that there's just no crafting recipe (instead of a super secret way of some clan to make shitty obsidian knives).

th3kaiser

  • Posts: 455
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #29 on: December 24, 2019, 10:28:14 AM »
My real complaint with that is some of those items don't seem like they'd use any sekrit methods and the reason we can't make them are because they're flagged. Someone start letting me make knockoff Salarri arrows plz. Genuine Solarri arrows for sale in Cenyr! Low low prices!

Krath

  • Posts: 2593
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #30 on: December 24, 2019, 01:06:20 PM »
My real complaint with that is some of those items don't seem like they'd use any sekrit methods and the reason we can't make them are because they're flagged. Someone start letting me make knockoff Salarri arrows plz. Genuine Solarri arrows for sale in Cenyr! Low low prices!

+1
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Dracul

  • Posts: 1086
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Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #31 on: December 24, 2019, 01:49:31 PM »
My real complaint with that is some of those items don't seem like they'd use any sekrit methods and the reason we can't make them are because they're flagged. Someone start letting me make knockoff Salarri arrows plz. Genuine Solarri arrows for sale in Cenyr! Low low prices!

+1

Could be great, could even give something extra for salaar to engage with!


... Overall, fully agreeing with the initial post of this threat. I'm not even sure why...but I enjoy using the crafting system...but I only recently started discovering some basic crafting combos...that make sense...yet, when paired with another thing that makes sense does not compute, so it's silly, frustrating, and relies on ooc code knowledge more than anything.
Veteran Newbie

HavokBlue

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  • Posts: 6511
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #32 on: December 24, 2019, 02:58:32 PM »
I've played this game for a decade now and I've still never skilled up a crafter and only play them in clans that I know post recipe lists because I still don't know how to target recipes with tricky keywords and I'm too afraid to ask.
All the world will be your enemy. When they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 2047
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #33 on: December 24, 2019, 04:17:13 PM »
I've played this game for a decade now and I've still never skilled up a crafter and only play them in clans that I know post recipe lists because I still don't know how to target recipes with tricky keywords and I'm too afraid to ask.

You can use the numbers now, So like, craft bone into #1 or whatever the specific syntax is.

perfecto

  • Posts: 917
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #34 on: December 24, 2019, 06:46:41 PM »
This thread has got me laughing a bunch of times now (all for good reasons)

It's funny how collectively we must have a hundred years of time played on this game and even the vets still aren't sure what the hell we're doing sometimes.

Realistically the crafting code isn't a problem that should be made easier.  It's a puzzle to be solved for those with the mentality to sit and take the time to figure it out.  Let be real this is a long haul game, not something you finish in a week.  The fun of this game comes with figuring it out as you go.  Remembering back to when I first played it took me weeks/months just to figure out how to get across town and then back to where I started lol.
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HavokBlue

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  • Posts: 6511
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #35 on: December 24, 2019, 07:49:40 PM »
For what it's worth, I've never been dissuaded from playing the game by the crafting code. It's just easier to play PCs that get to boss the ones with the crafting skills around.
All the world will be your enemy. When they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed.

Delirium

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Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #36 on: December 25, 2019, 10:35:21 AM »
Oh, I know this one!

The analyze results were updated via a code release but the helpfile was not updated in tandem.

It used to be you could tell apart craftable and non craftable items by the echo you got when using analyze.

This is no longer the case. You won't get a blank return any longer even if something is not craftable.

You will just get "You cannot tell how that is made."
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

JBlack

  • Posts: 47
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #37 on: December 25, 2019, 05:43:39 PM »
I'd like a quieter playstyle if i tried again.. tbh crafting isnt that unintuitive and youcan learn by buyinng stuff. What my problem is.. was conflict... Nonstop!! From start to end of last character people were on my ass. I understood why for some case and not for others.. It's stressful.

SomeElf

  • Posts: 16
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #38 on: December 26, 2019, 09:53:26 AM »
I'd like a quieter playstyle if i tried again.. tbh crafting isnt that unintuitive and youcan learn by buyinng stuff. What my problem is.. was conflict... Nonstop!! From start to end of last character people were on my ass. I understood why for some case and not for others.. It's stressful.
Was that in a merchant house or as an indie?

JBlack

  • Posts: 47
Re: A Real Problem for Newbies
« Reply #39 on: December 26, 2019, 05:27:20 PM »
This one was indy, had plenty of shit in gmh though too.... one of my favs was dwarf who tried to raid me then threw feces at me. Friends said today I can be provocetive. Maybe its me.. Enormous time investments is another problem that I think the new classes systems tries to address. The dude I made shot up in skills, when i had a 17 day played ranger who had a jman in weapons. Fast is better because less time initially grinding should mean more rp.