Author Topic: A call for goodie two shoes  (Read 2557 times)

Alesan

  • Posts: 369
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #25 on: December 10, 2019, 04:13:59 PM »
I mean that there are too many nice people..? I don't understand what's confusing about that statement.  Can you clarify what you're looking for specifically?

What kind of kindness in Zalanthas do you consider unacceptable? How much kindness do you consider to be unacceptable? Do you want 9 out of 10 people your character meets to be murderous psychopaths, or just assholes? Or 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? What is your ideal Zalanthas? I don't ask this to be on some kind of mission, I'm genuinely curious about what your version of the game would be.

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 5400
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #26 on: December 11, 2019, 04:02:51 PM »
I mean that there are too many nice people..? I don't understand what's confusing about that statement.  Can you clarify what you're looking for specifically?

What kind of kindness in Zalanthas do you consider unacceptable? How much kindness do you consider to be unacceptable? Do you want 9 out of 10 people your character meets to be murderous psychopaths, or just assholes? Or 1 in 100? 1 in 1000? What is your ideal Zalanthas? I don't ask this to be on some kind of mission, I'm genuinely curious about what your version of the game would be.

It's not that black and white.

I don't find any -type- of kindness unacceptable.
Or any *amount* of true kindness being how you raise your kid on Zalanthas seems hard to justify if the world is supposed to be like so:

Quote from: Armageddon.org
... it is about living out a character's sometimes short and always difficult life in the harsh world, Zalanthas.


But ShaL you say, what if my character isn't REALLY kind, he/she is just PRETENDING to be kind to get XYZ off Amos and Amosina! XYZ can be whatever you want it to be, information (#1 need for anyone on Zalanthas trying to survive), money, sex, influence, whatever. Then bravo you're a normal Zalanthan, THAT's what's normal in a harsh world, to not do dick without some kind of benefit to you, yours and your cause.

Tribals are exceptions to that annnnnd that's where it gets even more complicated.

Being as those in charge are murdering raping pillaging tyrannical overlords who have MRPT babylords vying for more power and influence within the system while simultaneously keeping the masses under their silk-clad, burnished and slippered feet, the system depends on everyone staying in their lane. Kindness is a lane that is dangerous on Zalanthas.  I think. People would hear about it, wonder why you're being so nice, how much favor are you accumulating, what are you PLOTTING against our ministry, our city, our HIGHLORD. You know?

To surmise, the appearance of kindness, good, actual kindness, questionable (not bad). Both are individual choices made by the creator of the character.

Human beings as we are now are rarely all good or all evil, within us we are capable of atrocities or benevolence. I just think that on Zalanthas, having been born into (what we in THIS world would consider) the normal barbarities, subjugation, and financial, emotional and physical scarcity that ARE the normin Armageddon, the need to survive and thrive and continue existing would create the type of personality that is self serving FIRST and above all.

There are always exceptions to the norm. What we play is entirely up to us.




I'm taking an indeterminate break from Armageddon for the foreseeable future and thereby am not available for mudsex.
Quote
In law a man is guilty when he violates the rights of others. In ethics he is guilty if he only thinks of doing so.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 2151
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #27 on: December 11, 2019, 04:23:40 PM »
I think a lot of people misunderstand what 'harsh' means in the realm of Armageddon. It doesn't mean be an asshole just because you can be and it is sometimes fun to play.

No, it means that having fleas because that guy at the bar also had them and now everyone on Miners has them. It means going hungry because you didn't work a 14 hour shift today. It means getting barely enough water to keep hydrated enough that your skin isn't just the roughest thing ever. It means life is HARD, it doesn't mean everyone is an asshole. It just means that everyone is selfish as shit and also predisposed to being assholes.

Harmless

  • Posts: 2863
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #28 on: December 11, 2019, 07:13:38 PM »
I often play characters that the OP would probably call 'nice.'

That's what they see in my characters.

They aren't seeing the inner turmoil, the coldness, the lack of care for the life and welfare of my characters' perceived/believed enemies, the awful pain my characters have had to endure in their often very long-lived careers.

If you think I'm being nice, you just are on my side.

When you reroll, you might just call me a bitch.

I'm frequently targeted for PK so I am unsure that would be necessarily the case if I were truly "nice."

However, newer players think I am nice.

You get familiar with Zalanthas' flavor of harsh over time. It isn't always about being an overt asshole, as was said.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5722
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #29 on: December 12, 2019, 11:28:28 AM »
Someone needs resources, and you provide them? Chances are there is a cost.
They may seem nice, but you are paying them. Either in coin, trade, or they are getting something out of it.
Sometimes the "something" they get is your friendship, or a sense of trust.

Chances are there are no 'true' altruistic people in the game (or real life). I don't think it helps anyone to call out anyone 'being nice' as 'against theme'.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

JohnMichaelHenry

  • Posts: 212
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #30 on: December 12, 2019, 11:54:10 AM »

Chances are there are no 'true' altruistic people in the game (or real life).

Ah. A true cynic. I have to say though, I'm glad I do not believe this. Perhaps it is true IG, which is what prompted me to start this thread, but from what I've seen so far, my perceptions are false.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
― Michael Scott, The Warlock

triste

  • Posts: 303
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #31 on: December 12, 2019, 12:10:53 PM »

Chances are there are no 'true' altruistic people in the game (or real life).

Ah. A true cynic. I have to say though, I'm glad I do not believe this. Perhaps it is true IG, which is what prompted me to start this thread, but from what I've seen so far, my perceptions are false.

There are evolutionary theories around altruism (and by extension "goodness") and to grossly simplify them for the sake of GDB debate it is a strategy to increase reproductive success for your group. Example, some animals in a pack might care for offspring they did not produce. I think being good and altruistic isn't common in Zalanthas but it 100% makes sense for tribal / group affiliated characters looking out for their own.
will do my best to maintain https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/, message me if something there needs an update.

Dar

  • Posts: 1556
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #32 on: December 12, 2019, 01:06:46 PM »
I remember the days when my pretty scary characters 'allowed' themselves to be raided, just because I wanted the then fledgling crimson wind to live and grow.

Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2019, 02:31:08 AM »
Just a disclaimer I am a novice player and dont post much. I agree with a few of the posts: There is too much black and white and not enough of the gray in the middle if we are talking about black being evil and white being good. There should be more of a bell curve with the median point being gray. It probably is more of a binomial curve with the median being dark gray and few people in the white or "good guy" section.

Why is this a point? I believe that with so much black and white and less of the nuanced gray position then characters retreat into their corners and dont interact because interaction means death. I could be off base but here are things I see. Examples:

1. Commoners leaving when a templar or noble enter a room. You know this happens. I have seen it done.
2. Very little in the way of non-death interaction from bad guys. There would be a perfect way to get some of the grittiness: Allow some other outcome than death at the hands of a guild type.
3. Very few PCs in the Arm. With the lack of competition why even try to fight the guild? (This is a guess on my part. I rarely see the "bad guys")

Riev

  • Posts: 5722
Re: A call for goodie two shoes
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2019, 09:29:00 AM »
1. Commoners leaving when a templar or noble enter a room. You know this happens. I have seen it done.
2. Very little in the way of non-death interaction from bad guys. There would be a perfect way to get some of the grittiness: Allow some other outcome than death at the hands of a guild type.
3. Very few PCs in the Arm. With the lack of competition why even try to fight the guild? (This is a guess on my part. I rarely see the "bad guys")

1. I have done this. In all honesty, it isn't always on PURPOSE, sometimes its morning and I have somewhere to be.
2. Personally, if I decide to engage in a situation where death is likely, I find that through roleplay I have a MUCH higher chance to only be maimed or just robbed. Do what your PC would do. Keep your eyes down. Follow directions. Don't immediately look, scan their face, copy down their mdesc. (that said, some people may just kill you anyway).
3. I have played Guild EXTENSIVELY. The Arm of the Dragon is not really MEANT to be "city cops".  They are soldiers, bred to fight in a war. They may chase criminals, out of boredom or because someone told them to. The Guild does not LIKE them, but they won't go out of their way to kill them (again, typically) unless the AoD decides to cut off the Guild's trade in some way, first. It only takes 2-3 PCs in either the AoD or the Guild to make things interesting, but there has to be an agreement to fight, not kill.

As to the last point, a lot of people roll Guild as the "Fuck the Templars we're going to kill them all wooo gangbangers!" and a lot of people roll AoD thinking they are going to clear crime from the city and crack some heads.

Honestly? Both the Guild and the AoD are just 'typical gangs'. They extort money from people, they enforce the 'law' in their respective areas. The AoD has Templars on their side, the Guild has an entire quarter of downtrodden hungry people willing to risk jail for a hit of spice.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.