Author Topic: Mounted NPCs  (Read 648 times)

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Mounted NPCs
« on: October 22, 2019, 11:43:00 AM »
With the new changes to NPCs and follow code can we begin to see mounted units (soldiers, traders, guard patrols, etc)? I think this would be an excellent time to implement this stuff as we already have scripting to have PCs run routes at certain times of the week and we can now have them chase you down until either your death or theirs. I propose we give certain groups the ability to actually do so without exhausting themselves in the middle of the Red. I'd like opinions and ideas related to this, please.

Additionally, for staff, is this even a possibility? Is there a reason we don't see any mounted NPCs? I have a feeling there IS a coded hurdle, but it's never been desirable enough to leap because the end goal would just be a stationary mounted unit. However I may be way off, so please shed some insight.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Titania

  • Posts: 249
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2019, 01:12:54 PM »
Players will just farm mounts.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 6213
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2019, 04:11:26 PM »
So?

A lot of people want to play raiders/bad people, but have an aversion to PK.  Might be fun to see a new 'bad guy' economy rise up without fear of killing actual PC's.  Right now there's just not a lot of targets for such.  Might be neat.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Alesan

  • Posts: 351
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2019, 04:14:28 PM »
Also, are we saying players don't already farm mounts off of PCs? Because I'm just guessing, but I'm pretty sure that's already a thing to an extent.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2019, 05:24:23 PM »
Also, are we saying players don't already farm mounts off of PCs? Because I'm just guessing, but I'm pretty sure that's already a thing to an extent.

Also I don't understand what the benefits of farming a mount is now that the butcher has a max amount of sid they'll trade over and that gets depleted rapidly due to entrepreneur ranger type PCs. So, like, you have a zillion mount tickets for no reason.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2019, 05:45:45 PM by gotdamnmiracle »
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Alesan

  • Posts: 351
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2019, 06:25:51 PM »
Also, are we saying players don't already farm mounts off of PCs? Because I'm just guessing, but I'm pretty sure that's already a thing to an extent.

Also I don't understand what the benefits of farming a mount is now that the butcher has a max amount of sid they'll trade over and that gets depleted rapidly due to entrepreneur ranger type PCs. So, like, you have a zillion mount tickets for no reason.

Well, I know mount reselling exists as a thing, too.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #6 on: October 27, 2019, 07:20:07 PM »
Sure, but accepting those things I think the issue is pretty moot. And mounted PCs are usually a force to reckon with. I'd love tp have small groups riding from Storm to Allanak, Luirs to Morins, Luirs to Allanak that could be intercepted. Or alternatively they could be lone raiders that, if not given a certain amount of money or a piece of your equipment  won't let you pass now that we have the threaten code.

I feel like all the parts are there to make the world more lifelike and giving PCs more mobility may be part of getting to that point.

My biggest concern is a group of NPCs getting wiped out due to Mekillots and other nasty naturally occuring things... but, that happens all the time in the lore, so why not? It'd make scavenging killingfields viable and dangerous because mekillot/ kryl are probably still nearby.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Qzzrbl

  • Posts: 4959
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2019, 10:24:01 AM »
Maybe give NPCs sub-par mounts that are hot garbage compared to the well-bred and pricey mounts available to PCs.

Remember, those four or five smalls you dropped on that beetle could probably keep a small commoner family fed for a while.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 10:26:28 AM by Qzzrbl »

kahuna

  • Posts: 203
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2019, 11:08:08 AM »
Players can make thousands upon thousands of coin by utilizing any numbers of scripts available and we're worried about putting NPCs on mounts in the game?

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2837
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2019, 02:08:45 PM »
Solution:

Who really cares?

How many bandits in the desert are going to have mounts? The mounted ones will probably be in larger groups as I imagine ambush hunters will be stealthed and not on a beast.

I imagine beasts owned by the military may be numerous but are tagged and you can't sell them or butcher them without some line of 'Bruh I aint gonna kill a Jade Saber mount'.

How much can you really sell a beetle for that it's worth risking getting trampled over by some guy on a mount? This is also after the change where people will chase you down for shooting arrows.
They cost like what, less than 800 in the shop.

SmashedTregil

  • Posts: 196
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2019, 05:30:21 PM »
Just make an NPC sdesced as mounted rider with 2x stamina and custom echo that makes bashing looks like charging. When you kill them, you kill the mount as well.

Question is ... Wtf for?
Peering into the darkness, your voice uncertain, you say, in sirihish:
     "You be wary, you lot. It ain' I who's locked 'p here with yeh. it's the whol
e bunch of youse that's locked down here with meh."

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2019, 06:28:53 PM »
Just make an NPC sdesced as mounted rider with 2x stamina and custom echo that makes bashing looks like charging. When you kill them, you kill the mount as well.

Question is ... Wtf for?

I dislike this. An entirely viable reason for attacking a PC or NPC is strictly because of the things they have (their equipment, their mount, their head). If you want to try and disincentivize banditry Or even just opportunistic theft I suggest you reread the setting and consider what seems reasonable in a post apocalypse setting.

And yeah, why not just reduce the price for owned mounts by a lot? We already do this same thing with gith gear and people still sell it for pocket change, yet no one complains. Allthe same I don't see why farming a mount from an NPC with equipment and skills is any less dangerous than possibly failing hopping ontop of an inix or ox? They'll both kill you dead, after all.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Brokkr

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  • Posts: 899
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2019, 08:08:29 PM »
The way our NPC saving works, you can't save an NPC as mounted on another NPC and have a zone reset load them that way.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2019, 08:34:07 PM »
The way our NPC saving works, you can't save an NPC as mounted on another NPC and have a zone reset load them that way.

Is there a way to have them run a script under certain conditions, similar to the Hunt script many NPCs already have? Why not just have certain NPCs try to mount whenever dismounted and standing? You could have them load up dismounted and promptly mount up and hitch their mount, right? Then that'd fix the problem of them getting dismounted by a charge or whatever and then fighting on their feet with their mount right next to them chewing cud.

Is that a possibility or am I misunderstanding the issue?
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 08:36:12 PM by gotdamnmiracle »
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Cabooze

  • Posts: 303
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2019, 09:43:47 PM »
The way our NPC saving works, you can't save an NPC as mounted on another NPC and have a zone reset load them that way.

Just make an NPC s/Mdesc/constantly reset Ldesc include the fact they are riding on an inix/sunback/beetle or whatever. Give them whatever coded bonuses/penalties such a thing entails (movement speed, inability to follow into certain rooms, etc..). Of course this would mean that they can't be knocked off their mount or have their mounts stolen, but it can be explained ICly that their mounts ran off on whoever killed them because of fear or whatever, or that is what they are trained to do. Maybe give their corpses a skinning loot-table for whatever they happen to be riding, to explain it as you also killing the mount accidentally when you kill the NPC. Lots of creative things to be done surrounding this, I think.
« Last Edit: November 02, 2019, 09:45:37 PM by Cabooze »

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2837
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2019, 02:47:12 AM »
Really don't know why you all are so against having mounted npcs when the sole reason I've seen is just 'lol why do that when you can just not'.

Also: "The way our NPC saving works, you can't save an NPC as mounted on another NPC and have a zone reset load them that way."

What happens if you try? Does the mount just disappear? If so: Proposed solution:
IDK how code works but something like "Npc notices he isn't mounted, runs script to summon a mount into the room and hop on one"

I assume it's a bigger pain in the ass than that

If it leaves a mount in the room + a NPC Idk how that would be fixed other than to pray they hop on each other because of code but then I feel like that breaks things whenever

SmashedTregil

  • Posts: 196
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2019, 09:22:45 AM »
What is the reason for these NPCs? Why does having NPCs that are mounted is so important, while having an NPC ldesced as mounted is a big no no. What exactly are we trying to achieve?
Peering into the darkness, your voice uncertain, you say, in sirihish:
     "You be wary, you lot. It ain' I who's locked 'p here with yeh. it's the whol
e bunch of youse that's locked down here with meh."

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2019, 10:49:47 AM »
What is the reason for these NPCs? Why does having NPCs that are mounted is so important, while having an NPC ldesced as mounted is a big no no. What exactly are we trying to achieve?

Realism, loot, targets for RP, the scaffolding for cycling traders, soldier unit, grebbers, raiders, hunters, randos, to name a few...

I will concede that changing the ldesc or mdesc is an option, but a poor one. It's like those NPC guard units where if you fight them theres no threat and no reward because they obviously don't drop equipment they don't have. Among other reasons why fighting them is boring and pointless.

I don't know why you have such an interest in making one of these types of fake NPCs and just handwaving it. If all we're gonna do is make ldesc'd NPCs then let's just not, I'd say. It's a poor solution in my opinion.

Unrelated: does anyone else feel they're getting "russian botted" with weird stances lately? Maybe I'm finally going crazy, but I'm waiting on one of the mods to notice this thread now and moderate me for arguing my points, all the while calling it trolling.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2019, 10:54:56 AM by gotdamnmiracle »
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

SmashedTregil

  • Posts: 196
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2019, 10:57:11 AM »
Oh. I dont understand the reason why these NPCs need to exist at all. I just don't mind if they do and assume that other people believe it's important they exist. So I offered an option to implementing them without needing to rework too much things code wise, potentially making the whole concept unworthy of implementation.


I begin to wonder if it's a matter of a strong PC raider activity and they want some more profitable NPCs that they can raid. Something that fits their theme, but doesnt force them enter cities where they'd die.

Is this the issue?  Where is the need for mounted NPCs coming from?
Peering into the darkness, your voice uncertain, you say, in sirihish:
     "You be wary, you lot. It ain' I who's locked 'p here with yeh. it's the whol
e bunch of youse that's locked down here with meh."

Qzzrbl

  • Posts: 4959
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2019, 11:21:12 AM »
I think it might be a matter of making the world feel more alive by bringing VNPCs to the foreground as NPCs.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2019, 12:25:54 PM »
I think it might be a matter of making the world feel more alive by bringing VNPCs to the foreground as NPCs.

Bingo. The desert already feels devoid of everything but scrab. I'd like to see the odd, hunter, squad of bynners, wyverns looking for slaves, dune witch. And I absolutely know these things can be automated. The reason they aren't yet is beyond me, but I was hoping we start small and slow by bringing NPCs upto the same capability as current PCs considering the new engagement code.

I didn't think I would have to define this, but I suppose I am advocating for improvement of the single-player experience of Armageddon, considering those individuals off peak, indies, or simply improving the experience for everyone.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2019, 12:47:49 PM by gotdamnmiracle »
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Brokkr

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  • Posts: 899
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2019, 02:16:42 PM »
Currently it would load the rider NPC and the mount NPC.  That is it.  No hitch/mount actions.  While that could be solved with scripts, having the riders rest their mounts at appropriate times, because the mounts won't regenerate movement when ridden just like your PCs' mounts don't, would be somewhat more involved.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Mounted NPCs
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2019, 02:33:20 PM »
Ah, I see. That makes more sense. Would it be possible then to have these outdoors NPCs on a clock where at a certain time (dusk until dawn) they will make camp, prompting them to change ldesc, remain stationary if attacked, and if not literally able to rest their mount, just give a flat +100% stamina to the mount at a certain time within this range?
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.