Author Topic: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?  (Read 2255 times)

kahuna

  • Posts: 202
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #75 on: October 28, 2019, 09:38:27 AM »
NPC soldiers are not too buff.  Even half-giant soldiers are generally killable, but there is a strong aversion to it because of the nature of crimcode.

The 'soldier has arrived from nearby' is not a good addition, never was, and all this 'virtual world' stuff is entirely one-sided.  Once you start implementing virtual thievery, virtual muggers that pop into existence, virtual half-elves to focus on in the establishments people want to be nicer without a doorman...then I'll start believing you.  All the virtual world emphasis does now is stifle, not tell people to involve it in their roleplay.

Simply put, it removes content from the game.  It doesn't add it.  People don't 'remember the virtual world', they just avoid doing things.

For example, to combat the 'half giant NPC posted at the entrance to the 'rinth' issue, one could presumably get a few enterprising 'rinthers together to chase/kill off this NPC. However, the ability to call virtual soldiers into the active domain is entirely too stifling. PC thieves, regardless of affiliation, do not have the ability to call in gangs on good terms without 3 weeks of back and forth with staff, and 2 reboots that have since moved that NPC soldier in the first place.

The NPC, itself, isn't difficult to kill. Hell, if I can SEE other soldiers in the area that might come to their aid, I might avoid it or bring backup. The issue is when either 3+ NPCs filter into the same place from chasing bad thieves, or the scripting that pulls soldiers from the virtual surroundings that we, as PCs, cannot account for.

The problem discussed in this thread is that there were typically about 8 HG NPCs chilling at the entrance. Good luck killing that.

Riev

  • Posts: 5611
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #76 on: October 28, 2019, 10:39:33 AM »
NPC soldiers are not too buff.  Even half-giant soldiers are generally killable, but there is a strong aversion to it because of the nature of crimcode.

The 'soldier has arrived from nearby' is not a good addition, never was, and all this 'virtual world' stuff is entirely one-sided.  Once you start implementing virtual thievery, virtual muggers that pop into existence, virtual half-elves to focus on in the establishments people want to be nicer without a doorman...then I'll start believing you.  All the virtual world emphasis does now is stifle, not tell people to involve it in their roleplay.

Simply put, it removes content from the game.  It doesn't add it.  People don't 'remember the virtual world', they just avoid doing things.

For example, to combat the 'half giant NPC posted at the entrance to the 'rinth' issue, one could presumably get a few enterprising 'rinthers together to chase/kill off this NPC. However, the ability to call virtual soldiers into the active domain is entirely too stifling. PC thieves, regardless of affiliation, do not have the ability to call in gangs on good terms without 3 weeks of back and forth with staff, and 2 reboots that have since moved that NPC soldier in the first place.

The NPC, itself, isn't difficult to kill. Hell, if I can SEE other soldiers in the area that might come to their aid, I might avoid it or bring backup. The issue is when either 3+ NPCs filter into the same place from chasing bad thieves, or the scripting that pulls soldiers from the virtual surroundings that we, as PCs, cannot account for.

The problem discussed in this thread is that there were typically about 8 HG NPCs chilling at the entrance. Good luck killing that.

I'm not going to go back and check, but I think 8 NPCs was a misrepresentation of how many are there.
That said, more than 3 is bullshit in the first place. Codedly, we're just talking about the fact that HG soldiers don't engage in auto-patrol behavior, so once they reach the end of their jurisdiction, they stay in that one room until a Templar comes or the game reboots.

I'm talking about the problem of when its only one or two that "dared come close to the 'rinth without permission".
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #77 on: October 28, 2019, 11:39:44 AM »
I seriously don't understand the logic around "if you don't like it just kill them". Does anyone think that that's appropriate when it is so obviously an issue with the patrol code.
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RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 19133
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #78 on: October 28, 2019, 02:29:42 PM »
If anything I feel like it's too easy to avoid capture. Just spam-run and you're fine. If you don't think you can make it, ready up a nosave arrest command and they'll subdue you and take you to jail.

Don't want to die? Don't resist arrest if you can't outrun a bunch of half-giants.

Brokkr

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 898
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #79 on: October 28, 2019, 02:50:57 PM »
I seriously don't understand the logic around "if you don't like it just kill them". Does anyone think that that's appropriate when it is so obviously an issue with the patrol code.

Patrol code?  If you mean how some soldiers move around on set routes...none of those soldiers are half-giants, as far as I am aware.

kahuna

  • Posts: 202
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #80 on: October 28, 2019, 03:31:41 PM »
If anything I feel like it's too easy to avoid capture. Just spam-run and you're fine. If you don't think you can make it, ready up a nosave arrest command and they'll subdue you and take you to jail.

Don't want to die? Don't resist arrest if you can't outrun a bunch of half-giants.

This is outright false. The crimcode has been notoriously difficult to get around. Having every single NPC soldier come after you just because you have the wanted flag is unrealistic and does a disservice to the games criminal elements. There's a reason criminal PCs are rarely if ever played consistently.

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 19133
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #81 on: October 28, 2019, 03:37:02 PM »
The reason they aren't played consistently is because other players scape-goat, witch-hunt, and generally harassing them. Not because of the crimcode. Crimcode is harsh, but navigable. And there's plenty of ways to never get crim-flagged while you do nefarious things. Like working at night. Not having witnesses. Knowing escape routes if you fail. Making sure you're competent before you try the dangerous shit. There's so many options.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2019, 03:55:56 PM by RogueGunslinger »

Riev

  • Posts: 5611
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #82 on: October 28, 2019, 03:45:13 PM »
I seriously don't understand the logic around "if you don't like it just kill them". Does anyone think that that's appropriate when it is so obviously an issue with the patrol code.

Patrol code?  If you mean how some soldiers move around on set routes...none of those soldiers are half-giants, as far as I am aware.

Correct, which is what I mentioned earlier. The buildup of HG soldiers on Hathor's Way is because there is a zone break and they stop chasing. Unfortunately, HG's are not scripted in any way, and do not have any predetermined routes or locations they need to be at, so they stack up. Eventually, you get 3-5 of them in that one room, ready to kill any wanted people fleeing into the 'rinth.

Even that would not be a problem, per se, because you could kill a single HG soldier that wandered off. But soldiers have a script to call in virtual assistance. That makes them too buff.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

betweenford

  • Posts: 16
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #83 on: October 28, 2019, 04:33:48 PM »
It's been said at least once in the thread there were IC reasons for why those particular HG's were all posted on Hathor's Way. Bringing the discussion to patrol code kind of seems moot when they pretty much spawn at the entrance to the rinth due to IC events. Whether or not current events/circumstances still warrant all of those HG's being posted there is something that probably needs more discussion but talking about things like that without skirting recent IC events would be pretty challenging IMO.

To me it seems like most people think all of the HG's posted there is somewhat unreasonable and might not be reflective of current rinth/nak politics, and a holdover from somewhat recent events that needs some updating, but not everyone might be privvy to deeper politicking that still warrants keeping all those HG's there.
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gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 855
Re: Are npc soldiers too buff and what would be a good way to fix it?
« Reply #84 on: October 28, 2019, 05:18:09 PM »
I find it frustrating that a complaint that spans years gets shouted down by others simply by saying it's IC. If it was IC then maybe I should have heard about rumors for it in one of the several taverns either south or north of Hathors. If it's IC maybe we could see some retaliation? It's laughable how everytime I've ridden along for a AOD run into the rinth Staff has had rinthers shooting arrows at us and literally shitting on us at one point, yet when several soldiers gum up the main road all the VNPCs just churn on as if this is normal.

I guess so many people have just flagged this as problematic code because, no, there isn't a proper expected response to this and it's easier to just lump it in with other known bugs and try to play around it (to be read don't commit any crimes that week because your escape route is full of soldiers and you should wait for a reboot to escalate plot).
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.