Author Topic: Consent checklist command  (Read 1039 times)

kahuna

  • Posts: 167
Consent checklist command
« on: September 19, 2019, 08:48:38 PM »
We seem to be on an idea spree on the gdb recently so I thought I'd throw this one out there.

We've seen the game evolve over time and I wanted to bring up this idea of adding in a consent command so
players can check other players consents without going OOC to break immersion. I think this would also help in
terms of dealing with any complaints over roleplay as well, you could theoretically add almost
anything to this list and cover every aspect of roleplaying.  I will preface by saying this is not
an original idea, we used these consent checklists when I was a DM for D&D so I thought I'd bring the
idea over here.


consent [OPTIONS] [SUBOPTIONS] [LEVEL]
 
options
add
remove
alter

level
green - Enthusiastic consent
yellow - Okay if veiled or offstage, might be okay onstage but requires discussion before hand, uncertain
red - Hard line, do not include

consent list
Horror
Blood
Demons
Eyeballs
Gore
Harm to animals
Harm to children
Rats
Spiders

Relationships
Romance
.Fade to Black
.Explicit
.Between PCs and NPCs
.Between PCs

Sex
.Fade to Black
.Explicit
.Between PCs and NPCs
Between PCs

Social Issues
Homophobia
Racism
Sexism

Mental health
Claustrophobia
Gaslighting
Genocide
Heatstroke
Natural disasters
Paralysis/physical restraint
Pregnancy, miscarriage, abortion
Self-harm
Severe weather
Terrorism
Torture
Thirst

Additional Topics?


Examples:
consent add blood green
consent alter blood yellow
consent add romance fadetoblack green
consent add all green

consent vennant

Vennant consents to the following:
They are consending to everything.

consent amos
They are consending to the following:
Blood - Green
Gore - Yellow
Paralysis - Green
Torture - Yellow


They are not consending to:
Romance - Red
Sex - Red

Thoughts?

Heade

  • Posts: 812
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2019, 09:37:33 PM »
Ok, I gotta say, this makes me sorta...



So, to address the root of your idea, I don't think such a command is a bad idea specifically for sexually explicit RP or torture scenes, since staff has determined that those require consent. That said, extending consent to EVERYTHING, including things as mundane as blood or cruelty to animals is way, way over the top. We're playing a game in which murder is in the tagline of the game. Blood is par for the course. And addressing things like animal cruelty is far too difficult to police when definitions of what is cruel and what isn't vary from person to person. A vegan might think that eating animals is cruel. Suddenly hunter PCs need consent to wear furs or talk about their jobs.

Admittedly, I've never been a big fan of the consent thing for adult themes to begin with, because we're playing an adult game that even used to have an 18+ notification before you could create a character. Years ago, on the old website, it stated that you must be 18+ to play the game, and we didn't have all of these issues at that point. This is an RPI mud that features adult themes. If you can opt out of general harshness, what's left in the game? Fade to black everything? Are we going to add trigger warnings to room descriptions and game docs next?

Come on people, let's draw the line somewhere.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2019, 09:47:33 PM by Heade »
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

lairos

  • Helper
  • Posts: 610
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2019, 09:46:34 PM »
I'm all for an on or off consent flag for the usual....Sexual scenes and torture/graphic scenes and all that. I'm totally against adding any others.
A staff member sends:
     "The mind you have reached is currently unavailable.  Please try again later."

Heade

  • Posts: 812
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2019, 09:48:55 PM »
I have an idea instead. Let's take this the opposite direction. Instead of placing the onus on the players to get consent from each individual player, let's just put a trigger warning directly on the website:

"If you are disturbed by adult themes like murder, torture, sex, betrayal, theft, animal cruelty, slavery, or virtually any other horrible thing you can imagine that might happen in an RPI game where no consent is required to kill you, this probably isn't the game for you. If that's the case, thanks for stopping by. If not, welcome to Armageddon!"
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

Magnate

  • Posts: 85
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2019, 09:51:35 PM »
I've suggested this a few times in the last twenty years. I would love to see something but far less elaborate.

Graphic violence
Sexual

I also absolutely love Heade's comment - I think consent on a game like this is sort of silly. This isn't Mr. Rogers.


kahuna

  • Posts: 167
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2019, 10:07:16 PM »
Despite your preconceived notions, people under 18 do play this game. This is the internet and we can't control who connects to the game and who doesn't. I think it's important also to realize that this game has lost players due to roleplay scenes they may have been uncomfortable with. I don't think is okay.

The point of this command would not be to prevent roleplay from occurring. It would be more of a guideline of what somebody is comfortable with. I as a roleplayer would rather know what people find uncomfortable, or "hard-lines" before I begin roleplaying one on one with them. I do not think consent can always be acquired in large groups, but if this were available at least you have the option to find out. I would rather know then not know is what I am getting at. I do not really see a negative to it, the more information you have the better you can facilitate the scene.

Also your snide gif is unnecessary and not really productive for a discussion.

Dar

  • Posts: 1499
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2019, 10:15:39 PM »
What about people whom you cant see in the room?

I'm sorry. But I myself would feel better if I ooc permission for graphic content and have it granted by others.

kahuna

  • Posts: 167
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2019, 10:16:43 PM »
What about people whom you cant see in the room?

I'm sorry. But I myself would feel better if I ooc permission for graphic content and have it granted by others.

By all means you can still do this for gore, violence, torture, sexual scenes. I'm not advocating for removing the necessity to break if need be.

Heade

  • Posts: 812
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2019, 10:27:38 PM »
Despite your preconceived notions, people under 18 do play this game. This is the internet and we can't control who connects to the game and who doesn't. I think it's important also to realize that this game has lost players due to roleplay scenes they may have been uncomfortable with. I don't think is okay.

I think it's important to realize that this game has lost players due to oppressive rulings regarding adult themed content in a game that was listed as an adult-themed game. This game is very different from what it was when I first started playing. Even very different from how it was 10 years ago. And while I believe staff is better, I think that content and storylines in the game have suffered and stagnated in the wake of these kid-friendly changes.

Sure, people under 18 might play the game. People under 18 look at porn on the internet too. But you don't see porn producers lining up to self-censor out of fear that a minor might ignore all instructions to do otherwise and look anyway. At some point, a decision needs to be made on who you're going to cater to and who your target demographic is going to be. You're never going to please everyone, so a decision either way will cause you to lose people.

Also your snide gif is unnecessary and not really productive for a discussion.

Relax, it's a facepalm gif. It's not offensive or snide. It's the equivalent of an emote, or ::facepalms::, but I went out of my way to give you an entertaining graphic.

If something like that hurts your feelings or offends your sensibilities, then you're sort of making my point for me. We've come to a point where people's delicate sensibilities are detrimentally affecting both the portrayal of the gameworld and general OOC communication. I never signed up for My Little Pony MUD with bone swords. This is armafuckinggeddon. <---(I also suggest the official namechange, just to set the proper mood.)
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10458
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2019, 10:35:44 PM »
Armageddon is like BDSM. You always ask permission and you always offer the option to withdraw. I'm fine with the current consent schema.
My thoughts.

A sex and torture survey upon character creation

Nameless Face

  • Posts: 421
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2019, 10:37:05 PM »
So what would be the expected response if I decide, your previous flag determining your Enthustiastic Consent or not, that my PC was going to have the scene including any one of your categories that is not already covered by the game's rules for sexually explicit adult scenes, mutation or explicit torture?

Your PC has Red Flags for Animal Cruelty and Rats, from your suggested categories.  My PC stomps a rat in your presence and seems to enjoy it.  Now what? 


kahuna

  • Posts: 167
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2019, 10:40:06 PM »
So what would be the expected response if I decide, your previous flag determining your Enthustiastic Consent or not, that my PC was going to have the scene including any one of your categories that is not already covered by the game's rules for sexually explicit adult scenes, mutation or explicit torture?

Your PC has Red Flags for Animal Cruelty and Rats, from your suggested categories.  My PC stomps a rat in your presence and seems to enjoy it.  Now what?

Now nothing. This isn't meant to stop you from playing your character it is meant to give you information so you know what to avoid specifically if you're roleplaying a scene with someone that might be sensitive to them. Consent might be the wrong word, I see it more as guidelines and simply knowing what people are and are not okay with being around. It's better than being in the dark and knowing nothing, offending someone and them quitting the game over something you did, wouldn't you agree?

Nameless Face

  • Posts: 421
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2019, 10:52:20 PM »
I don't agree.

If the goal is to prevent anyone from being skeeved out, an open text box would better than categories.

"Hey, I'm really weirded out by mushrooms.  Just an FYI."

I would offer two other suggestions to the above person:
1.  Don't play a MUD called Truffleworld.
2.  Be wary of handing out your preferred kinks or fears in this particular medium.

kahuna

  • Posts: 167
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2019, 10:59:34 PM »
I don't agree.

If the goal is to prevent anyone from being skeeved out, an open text box would better than categories.

"Hey, I'm really weirded out by mushrooms.  Just an FYI."

I would offer two other suggestions to the above person:
1.  Don't play a MUD called Truffleworld.
2.  Be wary of handing out your preferred kinks or fears in this particular medium.

The goal is to prevent people from being offended during roleplay they might not want to be a part of. This is more easily accomplished if you can gain as much information as possible. Right now we have the consent system which is far from perfect or even ideal. Trusting players to just police their own roleplay doesn't really work. Having a system in place would make players more responsible for what they are doing to other players and it gives staff an easier way to see in bulk what they may or may not want to see. You could even have the checklist be a standard Q&A during account creation so new players can enter their stuff from the get go.

This doesn't prevent you from doing the 'red' categories, especially if you don't even know the person is visible. But if I am acting out a gore scene on someone that I have knocked out and I see their checklist shows gore as red I can stop myself before even having to break immersion for consent and simply move on. I can also prevent the headache of a possible player complaint or even worse chasing a new player from the game.

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10458
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2019, 11:00:54 PM »
I don't agree.

If the goal is to prevent anyone from being skeeved out, an open text box would better than categories.

"Hey, I'm really weirded out by mushrooms.  Just an FYI."

I would offer two other suggestions to the above person:
1.  Don't play a MUD called Truffleworld.
2.  Be wary of handing out your preferred kinks or fears in this particular medium.

Trusting players to just police their own roleplay doesn't really work.

it doesn't?
My thoughts.

A sex and torture survey upon character creation

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 19110
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2019, 11:11:01 PM »
This is a weird idea for a niche, adult themed roleplaying game. The closest comparison I can think of is how Japan blurs their porn.

Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 12970
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #16 on: September 19, 2019, 11:12:23 PM »
Wow.

Armageddon already has already has kind of a reputation about being a "sex MUD".  Do we really need to codify that with a detailed survey about one's sexual preferences during account creation?!?!?!

I would have NOPE'd the fuck away from the game so fast if I saw something like that.

Gentleboy

  • Posts: 31
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2019, 11:17:40 PM »
Why is severe weather on the list? Severe sandstorms are...part of the game code, right?

LindseyBalboa

  • Posts: 65
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2019, 11:22:29 PM »
Wow.

Armageddon already has already has kind of a reputation about being a "sex MUD".  Do we really need to codify that with a detailed survey about one's sexual preferences during account creation?!?!?!

I would have NOPE'd the fuck away from the game so fast if I saw something like that.

Lol.

Also, though, I don't see what problem this fixes. The amount of effort seems to offer little reward; Further, t still seems to break character, but now even more so, to me. I have not yet run into an IC situation where consent for violence etc was not respected and asked about, and the break in posing is shorter and out of the way more quickly than having to view someone's consent toggles and figure out what it's okay to pose around them and what not, every time I scene.

Namino

  • Posts: 472
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #19 on: September 19, 2019, 11:35:56 PM »
SideEyeMonkeyMeme.png at this whole thread.

Aromit

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 35
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #20 on: September 19, 2019, 11:43:55 PM »
My thoughts.

A sex and torture survey upon character creation does paint a particular picture of the mud to new players (an inaccurate one to be clear)

Secondly, players make mistakes. I may be A-OK with role-playing adult themes one day and not okay the next, maybe I have curious people around or I'm playing while working and forget to toggle a flag and something inappropriate pops up on my monitor. Maybe I'm having a bad day. I do this already plenty with mercy on/off, nosave and contact/cease, listen, scan. I would indeed do it with these flags too.

The suggested flags imo don't offer much for consideration, I would still show my fellow players the courtesy of asking oocly if they're alright to progress a scene involving adult themes instead of trusting some kind of toggled flag on the pc. Everything's covered under help consent, players are considerate and I've yet to ever witness a request for consent be disrespected or ruin a scene.

Help consent covers everything pretty well and asking consent is pretty simple and straightforward.

Thomoto

  • Posts: 107
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2019, 01:02:45 AM »
Despite your preconceived notions, people under 18 do play this game. This is the internet and we can't control who connects to the game and who doesn't. I think it's important also to realize that this game has lost players due to roleplay scenes they may have been uncomfortable with. I don't think is okay.

Okay, I am the youngest Armageddon player, (at least one of them) and I do get what your saying. But if the game has lost people because they were uncomfortable with the scene, thats why we have FADE TO BLACK. It makes sense to have the grey area where the scene is ROd afterward as if it happened but not explicitly played out.

The other thing is a come on bro thing. Violence to animals, rats, spiders? So the staff would have to ping you everytime theres a rat or a spider? And I would have to ask for consent every time I play a hunter or do anything to an animal even if not as gory as a consent scene, thats just PG13 at most. But sexual scenes and torture or extreme gore makes sense and Iím perfectly okay with going ooc to ask consent.
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*arrows*

Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2019, 01:05:09 AM »
Ay I'm pretty sure the OP was a troll, can we please just forget this thread ever happened?
The consent stuff is all fine the way it is right now and has been for 20 years.
More consent checks is silly. Less consent checks is gross. Let's just keep it all smooth and cool & be sure to "ooc consent?" before putting things in secret places, and everyone will be all fine.
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Dar

  • Posts: 1499
Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2019, 02:30:04 AM »
This would actually make a good april fools joke. Asking these kind of questions during chargen.  :).

Is Friday

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Re: Consent checklist command
« Reply #24 on: September 20, 2019, 08:20:43 AM »
The reason I create new alt accounts for my clanned PCs is because of other players catering their play in response to knowing stuff about me OOC. I am fully against an automated system which will further segregate the playerbase into those who consent and those who fade. I am always respectful of other people's preference in the game and like to roleplay in 95% of scenes with those who are into super dark shit. I don't want more ways to form meta cliques in the game. I want to play characters motivated by their needs and wants -- to act organically.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.