Author Topic: Renaming Bards to Entertainers  (Read 250 times)

Barsook

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Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« on: September 05, 2019, 08:44:12 AM »
Sorry if this the wrong board.

This was brought up in the #help channel on Discord and I found this worthwhile to discuss. No edits are made, so there are misspelled words.

Quote
mascgentleboyhellToday at 8:21 AM
I have a question about the role of bards
Based on the help files it seems like Tuluk was a huge part of their culture
But now that Tuluk is not playable and the House of Fale is closed, that leaves just Kurac
But Kurac’s bards are apparently more about entertainment
Which makes me wonder, do bards still long to be in the courts of Tuluk (as the file says) or are all bard traditions kinda... gone?
Y’know what, I’m gonna ask all this in general. It’s too hypothetical/opinion based.
 
BarsookToday at 8:25 AM
I was wondering that myself, but it might be the case of "be the change IC".
I know there is at least four bards in Allanak.
 
mascgentleboyhellToday at 8:28 AM
@Barsook full time or hobbyist? I’ve never seen someone who’s full occupation is bard.
 
BarsookToday at 8:29 AM
I think hobbyist. I think I never seen a full time one even when Fale was open.
Althought it's hard to tell, methinks.
 
Katima 🚧Today at 8:32 AM
I feel like bards don't have to be kept in such a tight box as 'has to be connected to tuluk'. If every singer or musician had to be from a specific place or culture, there would be no music. You could always do a question request up to see if there are documented requirements for that type of role.
Your PC doesn't have to call themself a bard.
 
BarsookToday at 8:34 AM
Then would "bard" be the wrong term? Maybe "enterianer" would be better? It sounds like bards focus on song,  poerty, and to some extent lore.
 
Katima 🚧Today at 8:36 AM
Fair enough. But can't there be bards that never even heard of Tuluk? STaff could probably give more insight.

What does everyone of this?

Jihelu

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #1 on: September 05, 2019, 11:05:57 AM »
Bard is a pretty universal term, though in actuality I think it refers to more so poetry. In Armageddon I think people have taken Bard to mean 'likes music and plays an instrument' more so than 'storyteller'.

Entertainer can refer to a lot of things though is probably more appropriate. Especially for those who may hate Tuluk more so than most and think that even using the word bard is stupid (They have a bardic circle after all)

cnemus

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #2 on: September 05, 2019, 01:10:21 PM »
Bard is a subclass name and it is not necessary to name yourself a 'bard' IC if you take it, it is a set of skills. I do not support changing it to entertainer. While I've seen plenty of people call themselves a bard IC, that doesn't require the subclass. Your character can be an artisan that calls themselves a raider. They are what they do, not what skills are on their list (although there should be a reason the character has them).

Bard and entertainer both mean different things within the setting. I don't see a reason to smash them together. There have absolutely been full time bards.

Both of these titles have IC meanings and distinctions that mean different things and will be received differently based on location.

Quote from: Help Music https://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Music
In Tuluk, the Bards of Poet's Circle dominate in the area of muscial expression and tend to shun those outside of the Circle that perform for profit. Over the past Age, Tuluki music has slowly reverted back toward traditions rooted in tribal and Old Tuluki thought and music theory.

The bardic lifestyle is more loose in Allanak, where performances are common in taverns, streets, and the bazaar - but many bards aspire to serve House Fale to provide entertainment for its special events.

In Luir's Outpost, entertainers for House Kurac help keep the attention of visitors and travelers during their stay. Beyond the walls, many tribes have lorekeepers that are well-versed in the oral traditions of their tribe.

According to the website, House Fale is still open. Even if it were closed to PCs, it still exists and bard PCs can aspire to join it. Only a discussion with staff could identify the particulars of such an aspiration, but I would never let that stop me from trying. It could be a lifelong struggle to get recognition that provides endless opportunities to get involved with things.
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Veselka

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #3 on: September 05, 2019, 01:10:57 PM »
Honestly, Entertainer is/was a rank in House Kurac, and always seemed to imply some sort of either prostitution or hosting over performance of music.

Bard almost immediately invokes 'plays music for people to get money or notoriety'. I think changing the word, or nixing the word simply because the Bards of the Poet's Circle are currently defunct, wouldn't be a good decision. It's arbitrary, it puts people in a weird spot if they happen to say 'Bard' and people are like 'wut is bard'.

Bard = Entertainer, but Entertainer doesn't necessarily = Bard.

My PCs in Allanak tend to call people Musicians over Bard if they play a musical instrument, if that's any consolation.
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Nameless Face

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #4 on: September 05, 2019, 01:19:46 PM »
I think there are "bards" everywhere there are people.  Especially when we remember that Zalanthas is a non-literary world.  Outside the city-states, legend and culture is passed down almost exclusively through teaching stories, mythology song and legend-dances.

In the Allanak, in the coded villages and outposts, I don't imagine that the passing of culture is so much of a thing.  Powerful forces ruthlessly control culture there.  There, "bards" exist because of the fact that people just like to be amused.  There are street performers /everywhere/ in the NPC representation all over ArmageddonMud.

I don't think in 'nak they are likely to call themselves "Bards", though.  With that pesky capital "B".  Probably too much association with those stinkers in the North.  They might, but they might get a stink-eye from time to time from the fancypants who know about the trouble the Bardic Cycles in the North have gotten up to and might still be getting up to for all we know.

Entertainers, performers, musicians, street-hustlers, performance artists. I can think of a slew of PC's whose whole lives were in those kinda of categories and not just as a hobby.  Circuses?  Travelling carnivals?  Possible and proven possible.  I guess I don't think the name matters.  Ask one when you find one?  Pretty sure they're out there.



Marauder Moe

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #5 on: September 05, 2019, 02:37:20 PM »
Wait, House Fale got closed again?   :'(

Barsook

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #6 on: September 05, 2019, 02:39:06 PM »
The def of a bard is as follows:

Quote
: a tribal poet-singer skilled in composing and reciting verses on heroes and their deeds
b : a composer, singer, or declaimer of epic or heroic verse
2 : poet
From Merriam-Webster

I don't know why I waited to post this but it's the word bard that doesn't make sense based what I said above.

Wait, House Fale got closed again?   :'(

Sadly, yes, earlier this year, in spring.

Medena

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2019, 02:48:08 PM »
Wait, House Fale got closed again?   :'(

My reaction exactly!  I never got to play a Whatsit yet and really wanted to.  :-( 
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Lizzie

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2019, 02:50:16 PM »
I always considered a Bard (with a capital B) to represent the elite political manipulators of a society. They were the lorekeepers, the cultural caretakers, the ones who could make or break a Lord or Lady with a few well-placed words. They created the gossip and made sure it was sent to the right people. They determined who the hero was of wars, and who the victors were. People believed what the Bard instructed them to believe, and they lived according to those beliefs.

That was the traditional function of a Bard. They weren't "entertainers" though they used entertainment to spread the propaganda as an artform.
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Barsook

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #9 on: September 05, 2019, 03:04:41 PM »
Quote
Bard
(Subguilds)

Bards possess a talent with their hands and their voices that they put to use to make a living wherever they can. They are capable of producing their own instruments when materials allow and know enough about fast talk to get the best prices for them. Less musically-inclined bards often earn a living performing tricks involving small sleights of hand, or by repeating and embellishing stories they have overheard.

Bards are able to learn listen, haggle and instrument making to journeyman level. They are able to reach advanced level in sleight of hand and watch. Bards are adept at picking up new languages and accents.

See Also:
Bard Roleplay, Bards of Poets' Circle, Music

The bolded part is what I don't get why it's a part of the bard subclass. The other part all makes sense but I feel that still really points to Tuluk and the tribes. But that might just be me because I already asked that question. *shrugs*

JohnMichaelHenry

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #10 on: September 05, 2019, 03:37:51 PM »
The definition of bards as it has always been in the fantasy genre, includes, along with music or poetry, a wide variety of skills that makes them very adaptable. D & D bards followed this definition well through its many different rule sets, as well as just about every fantasy MUD I've ever played with bards as a class. Bards have always been the 'jack of all trades, master of none' even more so than rogues. I believe that the bard subclass in Arm, based on that understanding and the limits of our game, fits the bill quite well.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
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Medena

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #11 on: September 05, 2019, 04:03:09 PM »
Quote
Bard
(Subguilds)

... Less musically-inclined bards often earn a living performing tricks involving small sleights of hand, or by repeating and embellishing stories they have overheard....

The bolded part is what I don't get why it's a part of the bard subclass. The other part all makes sense but I feel that still really points to Tuluk and the tribes. But that might just be me because I already asked that question. *shrugs*

I think you're getting a bit hung-up on the name.  It's just a name.

Subclasses are a collection of related skills that reflect ways of earning money that PCs have had in the past or perhaps they are hobbies or interests.  People can play bards without having the bard subclass.  People can have the bard subclass and not actually play as a bard or performer of any kind.  I've always loved the bard subclass and have used it on many characters.  My memory is kind of hazy of so long ago but it seems to me that a noble I played back in 2005ish had bard as a subclass, either that or subclass "house servant", another fave.  :D

And how often have you ever heard someone going around calling themselves a "forester"  or a "caravan guide"?
« Last Edit: September 06, 2019, 12:24:00 AM by Medena »
Quote from: J S Bach
If it ain't baroque, don't fix it.

Barsook

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #12 on: September 05, 2019, 04:17:42 PM »
Very true, it might be the name that I got hung up on. I guess it's a OOC name for a group of professions.

Yseulte

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Re: Renaming Bards to Entertainers
« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2019, 05:04:06 PM »
The term ‘bard’ always felt far more Tuluki given the Poet’s Circle and prominent place of bards in the northern societies. That said, I would think an Allanaki would find a better term to make use of such as minstrel, harper, sonneteer, versifier, poet, rhapsodist, or just musician to avoid the common connotation of Tuluk and bard being entwined.

There are far more options than simply Kurac or Fale as an entertainer. Be an independent, make a troupe supported by a Borsail, Oash, or even Kadius. Fashion a PC clan where you custom craft instruments, play costumes, play make-up and more. Or be a renegade bard from Tuluk with no Circle affiliation only dreams of joining and lament that love to anyone with ears in the north.
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