Author Topic: A way to make elementalists scary  (Read 2557 times)

Eyeball

  • Posts: 1101
A way to make elementalists scary
« on: August 01, 2019, 09:45:03 PM »
Every time they cast, there is a chance they'll lose dominance over their link to their element and suddenly manifest as some horrible, aggressive representation of it. The player is no longer in control.

The chance is normally tiny (or maybe even zero) for unwounded mages, but the more hurt they are, the bigger it gets.

A Vivaduan might turn into some dripping, multi-tentacled creature. A Rukkian, into a spiky ball with stubby limbs. And so on. Not only could they fight, but use magick effects as well. Inventory is dropped or (in the case of worn items) destroyed.

Eventually the outburst wears off and they resume their former form.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 10:25:04 PM by Eyeball »

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9813
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #1 on: August 01, 2019, 09:58:28 PM »
First off, thanks for editing.

Second, no.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 10:59:53 PM by Synthesis »
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Hauwke

  • Posts: 1929
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #2 on: August 01, 2019, 10:45:22 PM »
This sounds well outside the realm of what Zalanthan Elementalist Magick is supposed to be. Hard no from me on that front.

However, mayhaps sorcerers.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 1101
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #3 on: August 01, 2019, 11:01:49 PM »
How about for nilazis?

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9813
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #4 on: August 01, 2019, 11:09:31 PM »
I feel like you need to clarify what you mean by "make elementalists scary."

Make them scary to who?  The person playing the elementalist, or other players?

Quote from: WarriorPoet
I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: Smuz
I come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: Vanth
Synthesis, you scare me a little bit.

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10458
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #5 on: August 01, 2019, 11:17:45 PM »
I think the Elementalist shouldn't be punished. The people arpund them? Maybe. Why not just make them more powerful and rely on the years of play one must accrue to acquire the required karma that represents trust invested in the player.

This idea itself I am completely against. Yes, it makes them scary/risky, but the penalty to the Elementalist player's experience massively outweighs the benefits to the theme.
My thoughts.

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Lizzie

  • Posts: 8018
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #6 on: August 01, 2019, 11:24:28 PM »
I doubt anyone would play one if every time they cast a spell, there was a chance of a magick-themed mul-rage episode. Helping someone dying of
  • with [totally non-violent, non-invasive solution to x], and instead, kill them because random dice roll? No thanks. Be a victim of that unfortunate dice roll? Absolutely not.
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chrisdcoulombe

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Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #7 on: August 01, 2019, 11:30:56 PM »
I will kill all of you. lol
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triste

  • Posts: 68
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #8 on: August 02, 2019, 12:11:47 AM »
I doubt anyone would play one if every time they cast a spell, there was a chance of a magick-themed mul-rage episode.

Be a victim of that unfortunate dice roll? Absolutely not.

The OP here made an analogy to mul rage, someone rightfully replied that that is a mechanic you need to find out about IC, so we shouldn't even be talking about this at all.

But can I just say this whole situation, including the assertion that we can't talk about existing rage code, is ludicrous and I 100% agree with Lizzie's summation?

To avoid getting in trouble by talking about things we shouldn't be talking about, let's just do a thought experiment here.

Imagine playing a game of D&D, and suddenly your DM says "Oh sorry, you critically failed a dice roll I just made behind my DM screen here. Your head explodes! You are now dead." You, as a player, would likely say "WTF?!?!" The DM would then say, "Oh, when you picked the super-psionicist class, what you didn't know is every in game day I am rolling two d10s and if you get two zeros your head explodes and you die." You, as a player, would likely say, "Well why didn't you tell me that's how it worked to begin with?! I thought as a super-psionicist my head would maybe only explode after a lot of exertion or getting injured." The DM then shrugs and says, "Ooops, sorry, it was just a random dice roll all along. Death is permanent, maybe pick a different class next time, now you know how it works."

That is the exact situation players of certain in game races are in now. Before even remotely considering extending this mechanic to gickers, we need to fix the situation for our existing guilds/races. It needs to be spelled out extremely explicitly, both what causes the episodes and what prevents it. Gickers are given the exact spheres/etc for casting spells, and any "rage" code should be made just as explicit. Once we fix the situation and do that, I might be in favor of something like this.
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Jihelu

  • Posts: 2824
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #9 on: August 02, 2019, 12:23:11 AM »
This reminds me of some shit out of Warhammer where magick has a chance of making things go 'fucky'.

I don't see WH40k Psykers like I do Arm Magickers, nah.

triste

  • Posts: 68
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #10 on: August 02, 2019, 12:28:37 AM »
Good point, Jihelu. I stand by my DnD example, an will riff on the Warhammer example you just posted. In DnD/Warhammer/etc, Player Character rulesets are equally transparent to the player and the DM for a reason. A change like this would only be acceptable if we fix the current problem we have with not documenting the mechanics for players properly.

The sad fact is the mechanics under discussion here are discussed on the shadow boards anyway. Why are they discussed on the shadow boards? Because for lack of clear documentation, you are basically condemned to die as a new player dealing with the mechanics we're discussing. The system is broken in that regard. If anything the best thing to come out of the original post here is a clear explanation of mechanics that we need to see elsewhere in the game.
I don't play anymore but will do my best to maintain https://tristearmageddon.github.io/arma-guild-picker/, message me if something there needs an update.

Halcyon

  • Posts: 298
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2019, 12:52:39 AM »
My  suggestion would be that when a spell is cast, both the mage and the few rooms around him or her picks up some amount of "negative charge".   The charge naturally decreases over time, and high horn spells, and more powerful spells increment it faster.

Once the area or mage gets past a particular point of "charge", there is an increasing chance of an effect being generated.   This is where a person in the same area might pick up a curse.  The curse isnt a targeted griefing tool.  Its a random bad effect from being around the naughty.    Once the mage or area triggers a bad effect, their negative charge is purged to create that effect.   More negative charge in a backlash would make for a bigger negative effect.  The farther you push things, the worse the backlash.

Negative effects would be different for mages and areas, and maybe different for the type of spells that added into the negative charge.   In addition to curses, uncontrolled elementals could be summoned, thaumivore critters might stop by for a meal, or the local magickal authority could take notice.

Incidentally, this solves some scripted / spamcasting for skilling.
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Synthesis

  • Posts: 9813
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2019, 01:04:30 AM »
I don't like hard-coded random negative effects because the superstition-based fear of 'gickers is culturally thematic, not based on how magick supposedly actually works.  As such, hard-coded mandatory random negative effects would throw off the clan docs for clans like the ATV, Al-Seik, Sun Runners, et al. where magick is not something that is universally reviled because OooOOoOOoOOooOOOo scary.
Quote from: WarriorPoet
I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: Smuz
I come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: Vanth
Synthesis, you scare me a little bit.

Halcyon

  • Posts: 298
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2019, 01:07:12 AM »
Regardless of the solution that gets settled on, I think part of the game theme is destroying the world through overuse of power and materials.   The various tribes try to work within limits and realistic bounds.   The gluttony of the templarate has no such restraint, even when they have control of their unruly mob.
Desert planet, your time has come. A storm is coming, our storm, and when it arrives it will shake the universe.
- Dune

Veselka

  • Posts: 1105
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2019, 02:00:05 AM »
This wouldn't make magic any scarier, it'd just make it so I'd never play a Magicker class.

It isn't that I don't like negative effects, or even possibly magic not being 'targeted' as easily -- So if it's used, there's a chance it misfires. But the examples listed above detail well why hidden negative effects based on random chance WILL eventually happen, and therefore, makes it an unappealing choice.

I'd be more interested in magic not working as intended 100% of the time. So instead of a spell either working or not working, it has a chance of misfiring and having an entirely different result, possibly even a spell they don't have on their spell list.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Brytta Léofa

  • Posts: 647
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2019, 02:49:09 AM »
Incidentally, this solves some scripted / spamcasting for skilling.

Magick skillgain really is not out of control. It's on par with crafting skillgain, if all recipes succeeded most of the time, and it took ten minutes to regenerate your Crafting Energy, and being seen crafting (or with crafted products, or with a non-removable merchant's token) were a 100% valid excuse for getting murderated.
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Hathors Hitman

  • Posts: 21
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2019, 11:25:44 AM »
Or you know follow the docs and understand your character shouldn't be best friends with that magicker.

kahuna

  • Posts: 165
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2019, 11:55:24 AM »
There is really no need to codedly manifest "fear" in people. Good roleplayers will properly roleplay this emotion and others will continue to roleplay "fearless" characters every PC they have.

The issue with this idea is that there is really no IC basis for it to exist. Elemental magick is essentially a wild, unknown and scary thing already, if people don't think so that's up to them to roleplay out but 99% of vNPCs/NPCS will fear it rightfully. I think 50% (maybe 1/4?) of Tuluk was leveled from magick (check the chronology).. then there are other parts of the game where magick has shown terrible massive capability to destroy all life in a vast swathe of landscape.. we are essentially talking the palpable fear of the cold war, this is nuclear type of power that can destroy vast square kilometers of all life. That's pretty damn scary if you ask me.

Brokkr

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Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #18 on: August 02, 2019, 12:51:13 PM »
Don't forget the area of glass that now exists north of Luirs and would be well within living memory.

Or the area where there used to be a volcano, just a tad more north of there.

Erythil

  • Posts: 1258
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #19 on: August 02, 2019, 08:30:09 PM »
I think magic users are already isolating enough without you needing to be a hermit to use any of it at all.  This description wouldnt stop people from playing them, it would just make you want to never play with any friends.

Riev

  • Posts: 5560
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2019, 09:09:57 AM »
Don't forget the area of glass that now exists north of Luirs and would be well within living memory.

Or the area where there used to be a volcano, just a tad more north of there.

Does everyone know about the glass north of Luir's, for the most part? (it could be a rumor that I haven't seen yet)

And even if so, I could say "Well that was some gith ashlayer. Victor the Viv can't do that. Maybe Kyle the Krathi, but he's a dick anyway."

I just think the cantrips being non-combat inducing would be a start. Even at Mon, with 'real' effects, if they're subdued enough it'd make the characters actually scary on their own terms.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Veselka

  • Posts: 1105
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2019, 10:15:55 AM »
Quote
1659 (Year 42 Age 22)
As Kurac and assorted allies make a strike on a gith tribe that has been harassing Luir's Outpost and trade for several years, the gith somehow gain access to the Kuraci Fist fort north of Luir's. Through apparent use of magick the fort is reduced to a glassed over wasteland by the gith.

Speaking of which, it's time for some new chronology entries!
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

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titansfan

  • Posts: 972
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2019, 02:39:17 PM »
I think adding feels to people around the person casting would be neat. 

Strictly physical but something like: You feel uncomfortably hot.

You feel an uncomfortable dryness in the air.

This would be a feel to all not of your element. Thoughts?
"People all die for a reason....your reason? I didn't like you...."

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"Ever heard my war-cry? It kinda sounds like you dyin'."

Riev

  • Posts: 5560
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2019, 09:08:31 AM »
I think adding feels to people around the person casting would be neat. 

Strictly physical but something like: You feel uncomfortably hot.

You feel an uncomfortable dryness in the air.

This would be a feel to all not of your element. Thoughts?

I don't think this makes an elementalist 'scary', at all. I think it makes them inconvenient and impossible to play unmanifested.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

titansfan

  • Posts: 972
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #24 on: August 07, 2019, 09:11:50 AM »
I think adding feels to people around the person casting would be neat. 

Strictly physical but something like: You feel uncomfortably hot.

You feel an uncomfortable dryness in the air.

This would be a feel to all not of your element. Thoughts?

I don't think this makes an elementalist 'scary', at all. I think it makes them inconvenient and impossible to play unmanifested.

Unmanifested wouldn't be casting. How does it make anything inconvenient? It holds no actual coded effect just flavor and roleplay?
"People all die for a reason....your reason? I didn't like you...."

"Sirihish, do you speak it!"

"Ever heard my war-cry? It kinda sounds like you dyin'."