Author Topic: A way to make elementalists scary  (Read 2227 times)

number13

  • Posts: 1052
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #50 on: August 11, 2019, 05:25:59 AM »
But if your PC gives reason to focus.......heh.

You can't say that about a Vividian, or a Rukkian, or a Krathi, or even really a Nilizi. But if you piss off a Whiran, you're fucked forever, basically. Until the other player gets bored or sloppy.

In fact, you could be playing an Vividian or Rukkian or Krathi yourself, and you're more or less fucked if a Whiran decides you're fucked.

And meanwhile, while they have the best PvP spells in the game, they also have the best spells for overcoming PvE challenges, to the point where exploration is effortless and cheap.

And nobody sees a problem with that?
« Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 06:46:37 AM by number13 »

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7991
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #51 on: August 11, 2019, 09:05:48 AM »

Personally, I PK'ed 3? PCs in under 8 days played with a miscreant/gicker...so no, it's not just buffing their mundane skills.  The mundane skills absolutely help immensely, but there's pretty much no mundane subclass you could pair with a miscreant and wreck people at 8 days (unless you have access to heramide).


So, if they had picked artisan/mage-subclass - they'd be scary because they are elementalists? I'm not asking if every PC, NPC, and VNPC in the game world would respond appropriately to their existence, because we already know that's not true. I'm asking if the code of the elementalist sub-class itself would support the scariness attributed to the fact that they are elementalists.

If the answer is no, then the answer is no. No, elementalist subclasses are not in and of themselves scary in the way full elementalist classes were, whereas once upon a time, full elementalist guilds were scary. Even vivaduans - the so-called "healers" of the group - had the potential to be absolutely horrifying, without having any useful non-magick combat skills.

To me it's the same concern I had with trap being removed back in the day. Sure, you can now emote out that there's a trap on that door lock. But there's no actual damage done, no coded risk for failure, and no coded reward for success. When was the last time you saw anyone roleplay out a trapped lock? For me, the last time I saw it, was when there was an actual trap code.

A big chunk of "the thing that made Elemental main guilds scary" was removed from game play. Sure you can emote it out. But the code no longer supports it. The thing that made them scary was the way they were created to work in tangent with each other and in fact how every spell within a single mage's capacity was designed to work with/off every other spell in that single mage's capacity. Take away the fluff pieces, and you have a solid core of skills/spells that are designed to work with each other. If you remove one of those spells, you remove a HUGE part of why they are so scary.

This plus this plus this plus this = no need to pretend that theoretically according to the docs, this character can do horrible things to yours. It means they really CAN do horrible things to yours.

This plus this plus this - but not this = you're going to have to just pretend, because those horrible things cannot happen.
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Shabago

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Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #52 on: August 11, 2019, 02:37:31 PM »
Ask and Ye shall receive:

Sample size: All PCs, living and dead, since the start of 2019.

Humans: 443 PCs, of which were magickers = 47.
Elves: 261 PCs, of which were magickers = 28
Dwarves: 75 PCs, of which were magickers = 5
Half-elves: 84 PCs, of which were magickers = 11
Half-Giants: 7 PCs
Mul: 10 PCs

Total PCs 1062, of which were magickers - 85, or 8%.

Guild breakdown:

Stalker - 139
Fighter - 105
Scout - 107
Miscreant - 103
Raider - 82
Adventurer - 45
Infiltrator - 62
Enforcer - 74
Artisan - 44
Craftsperson - 29
Dune Trader - 22
Soldier - 21
Laborer - 15
Pilferer - 27
Fence - 15

** Difference from 'total' versus guild breakdown - Some existing 'old' mundane guilds, those that were stored, those that were rejected.
Nessalin: At night, I stand there and watch you sleep.  With a hammer in one hand and a candy cane in the other.  Judging.

kahuna

  • Posts: 129
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #53 on: August 11, 2019, 03:06:47 PM »
Woah that's awesome. Thanks a lot for getting the breakdown.

I'm surprised by the amount of stalkers but that's the only thing that stands out to me. There are hardly any of the high karma stuff, muls/half-giants doesn't surprise me at all. Less than 10% as magickers is way lower than what people would claim on the forums. Considering those are subguilds and probably include a lot of people testing out the new magicker subguilds to find something they want to play.

Is Friday

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Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #54 on: August 11, 2019, 03:14:24 PM »
Could you post a breakdown of the magick guilds picked, too? Or is that too revealing you think? I assume not.
And then I sat there going "really? that was it? that's so stupid."

I still think the best closure you get in Armageddon is just moving on to the next character.

Brokkr

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Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #55 on: August 11, 2019, 07:50:33 PM »
Given we’ve just released two new magical subclasses, I would rather not publish any numbers related to them, or that would allow someone to back into their numbers.

mansa

  • Posts: 9710
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #56 on: August 12, 2019, 01:58:58 AM »
Look what I did:

New Players Guide: http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,33512.0.html


You win Armageddon, congratulations!  Type 'credits', then store your character and make a new one

Eyeball

  • Posts: 1101
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #57 on: August 12, 2019, 03:45:52 AM »
Why not normalize the bar chart so that any trend toward or away from classes is more evident?

number13

  • Posts: 1052
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #58 on: August 12, 2019, 06:27:35 AM »
Does that data includes PCs that played under 5 hours (or some similar cut-off to cull out people who tried the game briefly, but didn't continue playing)?  I don't know if that's a significant factor in the data, and I don't have an eagle-eyed view of everything, obviously, but 8% of players being gickers doesn't match my experiences.

Players with more playtime might skew the perception as well...I know it's impossible, but I think it be more telling to know hours played per class.

Though, I don't really care how many elementalists there are. What actually matters to me having a player base where interactions between players is encouraged, to give each character the biggest possible monkey sphere. And that means elementalists should not be super scary.

I'd rather a few very, very rare scary magic users.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 08:44:17 AM by number13 »

Dar

  • Posts: 1449
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2019, 08:33:48 AM »
Somehow I suspect introducing a cut off would require them to check every entry for hours played, instead of pulling up a list. Difference between a 5 min query and multi hour one.

Riev

  • Posts: 5540
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #60 on: August 12, 2019, 10:00:07 AM »
Look what I did:



What I see is that nobody likes crafting classes, Stalker is just SO good, and maybe I DON'T want my next karma-subguild to be Adventurer.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1893
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #61 on: August 12, 2019, 05:04:34 PM »
It also appears we have had more characters in the 8 months of this year, than the entirety of last year.

kahuna

  • Posts: 129
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #62 on: August 12, 2019, 05:22:29 PM »
What I see is that nobody likes crafting classes, Stalker is just SO good, and maybe I DON'T want my next karma-subguild to be Adventurer.

I mean.. this is nothing new. Previously merchants were the least played guild by far. Crafters are always going to be under represented by the player base, most players enjoy playing combat capable characters for obvious reasons.

flurry

  • Posts: 3363
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #63 on: August 12, 2019, 08:13:31 PM »
It also appears we have had more characters in the 8 months of this year, than the entirety of last year.

I think the new classes only went live about midway through last year.
"No live organism can continue for long to exist sanely under conditions of absolute reality; even larks and katydids are supposed, by some, to dream." - Shirley Jackson, The Haunting of Hill House

kahuna

  • Posts: 129
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #64 on: August 12, 2019, 08:19:38 PM »
It also appears we have had more characters in the 8 months of this year, than the entirety of last year.

I've been busy.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1893
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #65 on: August 12, 2019, 08:53:22 PM »
It also appears we have had more characters in the 8 months of this year, than the entirety of last year.

I think the new classes only went live about midway through last year.

I think they went in some time around march, which, if memory actually serves this time, means about the same amount of time has passed and we have more PCs, which is pretty interesting.

Dar

  • Posts: 1449
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #66 on: August 12, 2019, 10:29:41 PM »
Or perhaps it means a lot of people died, then died again, and afterwards died some more during this year. I find any accusation that it was somehow my fault entirely unplausable and offensive.

Medena

  • Posts: 1285
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #67 on: August 12, 2019, 10:31:56 PM »
Quote from: Brokkr on June 20, 2018

For a number of reasons, mostly based around transparency and fairness, I am opening up this forum to the public, now that it has served its purpose.  New Classes are coming, anticipated within the next couple of weeks.

The new classes went in at the end of June or beginning of July.
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Hauwke

  • Posts: 1893
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #68 on: August 12, 2019, 11:45:33 PM »
Alright, so that means the graph is 6 months vs 8 months.

The total number of PCs seems higher regardless.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 1101
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #69 on: August 12, 2019, 11:51:27 PM »
Quote from: Brokkr on June 20, 2018

For a number of reasons, mostly based around transparency and fairness, I am opening up this forum to the public, now that it has served its purpose.  New Classes are coming, anticipated within the next couple of weeks.

The new classes went in at the end of June or beginning of July.

But were available to a substantial number of playtesters before that.

Jarvis

  • Posts: 176
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #70 on: August 15, 2019, 07:34:14 PM »
TL;DR They're fucking horrifying
The man puts his tongued, grotesque, translucent groin rig on over his eyes.

Jarvis

  • Posts: 176
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #71 on: August 15, 2019, 07:36:38 PM »
Double-Posting:

They're only not scary because you already peeked through how they work

Sue me
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Riev

  • Posts: 5540
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #72 on: August 15, 2019, 07:50:26 PM »
For me, it really isn't that I know someone can toss a fireball in my face, and therefore they aren't scary.

Its just that there are no real coded consequences for being around these wild and crazy 'gicks. Sure there is documentation and "reasons" to not associate with them, but in regular play, these things don't actually happen. Eventually, you realize your dick hasn't fallen off, and that your bad luck happened before and after you met and killed that weird gemmed fucker.

They aren't scary because nothing about them SCARES people. If you piss off a gemmed at the Gaj, there is nothing they can do. They can't even wiggle their fingers and say "boogety boo" without getting the Arm involved. Its like saying dogs behind fences are scary. Yeah maybe if someone lets them off their leash, but otherwise, who cares about some junkyard dog?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

kahuna

  • Posts: 129
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #73 on: August 15, 2019, 07:57:31 PM »
For me, it really isn't that I know someone can toss a fireball in my face, and therefore they aren't scary.

Its just that there are no real coded consequences for being around these wild and crazy 'gicks. Sure there is documentation and "reasons" to not associate with them, but in regular play, these things don't actually happen. Eventually, you realize your dick hasn't fallen off, and that your bad luck happened before and after you met and killed that weird gemmed fucker.

They aren't scary because nothing about them SCARES people. If you piss off a gemmed at the Gaj, there is nothing they can do. They can't even wiggle their fingers and say "boogety boo" without getting the Arm involved. Its like saying dogs behind fences are scary. Yeah maybe if someone lets them off their leash, but otherwise, who cares about some junkyard dog?

Discrimination is naturally illogical. No one here is disputing this, everything you say is true, but the illiterate, superstitious and very illogical population of the world we're playing in truly believe in it regardless of our own logical, literate, educated viewpoints as players. Just because we as players know there is a "crim code" and we are safe in that tavern surrounded by NPC soldiers doesn't mean our characters believe that.

Riev

  • Posts: 5540
Re: A way to make elementalists scary
« Reply #74 on: August 15, 2019, 07:59:34 PM »
Which, I think is the point of this thread. A way to remind everyone and reinforce that elementalists are, in fact, scary.

Stop RP-shaming people because they aren't as immersed or deep into the world/characters as you are. We're all here for different reasons.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.