Author Topic: Crafting skills success rate  (Read 585 times)

Cerelum

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Crafting skills success rate
« on: May 21, 2019, 11:22:43 AM »
I donít think Iíve ever had a trade skill work very well, even at maxed out advanced where it tops out.

Seems like advanced doohickey making seems to fail about 50 percent of time instead of succeed 80.

Granted Iím using a zero karma subguild, but I think I have maxed everything involved in it and still burn through materials like a crackhead.

While Iím okay with that, I do not want want to have to murder every single critter in a ten mile radius of X settlement to make a full doohickey set due to the success rates.

Iím using tools and such for the bonuses too and it seems to not really do much in regards to changing my rolls, I get that itís a RNG or dice roll, just think that the top end of subguild crafting should maybe be tweaked to have more success.

Anyone else feel the same way?
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Brokkr

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2019, 12:16:15 PM »
You aren't going to get anywhere near 80% of the time with a 0K subclass, so it sounds like it is working about right.

Cerelum

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2019, 12:22:33 PM »
You aren't going to get anywhere near 80% of the time with a 0K subclass, so it sounds like it is working about right.
Ahh, gotcha. I was under the assumption that the karma subguild were simply to get mastercraft ability.

Oh well now I know for next time.
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Brokkr

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #3 on: May 21, 2019, 01:39:28 PM »
The helpfiles literally list what levels different subs can get to.  Your overall level in a skill is factored into how often you will succeed at crafts within it.

Cerelum

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #4 on: May 21, 2019, 02:44:25 PM »
The helpfiles literally list what levels different subs can get to.  Your overall level in a skill is factored into how often you will succeed at crafts within it.

Iím aware, however if you separate skill levels, novice, apprentice, journeyman, advanced, master.

Five levels, wouldnít it be reasonable to assume advanced is 80%?

4 out of 5
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Medena

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #5 on: May 21, 2019, 03:15:58 PM »
The helpfiles literally list what levels different subs can get to.  Your overall level in a skill is factored into how often you will succeed at crafts within it.

Iím aware, however if you separate skill levels, novice, apprentice, journeyman, advanced, master.

Five levels, wouldnít it be reasonable to assume advanced is 80%?

4 out of 5

Not really because that would presume that master would get 100% and it is my understanding that no skill levels are 100%.
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Riev

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #6 on: May 21, 2019, 04:48:03 PM »
Also, not all skills are "100% == master". Back a while ago, it was pretty well known that whatever scale the staff use (lets pretend we don't know it), that while max is 100, skills like Parry only ever got to, lets say, 50. So on your 5 item scale, Advanced would only be 40%.


It does you no good to assume how the skills are rated, or to even assume that "80/100" skill means you will succeed 80% of the time, because that's just not how it works.
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Brokkr

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #7 on: May 21, 2019, 05:59:42 PM »
We can also make an individual craft such that you fail it even more than you would otherwise have.

Or easier, but where is the fun in that?

John

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #8 on: May 21, 2019, 07:42:54 PM »
We know how difficult each individual craft is relative to skill. If your failing too much make easier things or get better tools.

Cerelum

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2019, 08:41:29 PM »
Yeah, failing easy shit all the time is annoying.

Iíve bugged a tool or two that seems to only ever come out as terrible quality.
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Synthesis

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #10 on: May 22, 2019, 04:22:19 AM »
If you want to be awesome at crafting, you have to take a master <whatever> subguild, or take a master-tier primary class.

You can still make thousands and thousands and thousands of 'sid with advanced skillcaps.  Trust me.
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Cerelum

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #11 on: May 22, 2019, 09:06:31 AM »
If you want to be awesome at crafting, you have to take a master <whatever> subguild, or take a master-tier primary class.

You can still make thousands and thousands and thousands of 'sid with advanced skillcaps.  Trust me.

Yeah I know, I just feel bad killing twenty chalton to make five items due to crafting failures at the top tier of my crafting game.

I have master in some skills that barely fail, and then in other with advanced it feels like 50/50 with tools.

If thatís working as intended I accept that, just always thought it would have a higher success rate:
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Alesan

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #12 on: May 22, 2019, 09:53:36 AM »
If anyone complains about your chalton killing, just tell them you have advanced crafting. They'll understand.

Riev

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #13 on: May 22, 2019, 10:20:34 AM »
Yeah, failing easy shit all the time is annoying.

Iíve bugged a tool or two that seems to only ever come out as terrible quality.

There ARE some tools that do only come out as terrible quality. Because the tool is basically a sharp rock attached to some leather.

Also, and I'm very confident this is correct, tool quality only matters when the tool is NECESSARY IN THE RECIPE.

So if you hold a pair of "leatherworking scissors", they may give a +5 to leatherworking.
But if the recipe 'requires a leatherworking', the quality of the scissors comes into account. In many cases, crafts cannot be made unless the 'required tool' is of a certain quality or higher.

So, it doesn't really matter if your shitty hide scraper is of terrible quality, unless one of your tanning recipes REQUIRES a hide scraper.

Hashtag MoreRecipesRequiringTools
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Cerelum

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #14 on: May 22, 2019, 10:45:28 AM »
Yeah, failing easy shit all the time is annoying.

Iíve bugged a tool or two that seems to only ever come out as terrible quality.

There ARE some tools that do only come out as terrible quality. Because the tool is basically a sharp rock attached to some leather.

Also, and I'm very confident this is correct, tool quality only matters when the tool is NECESSARY IN THE RECIPE.

So if you hold a pair of "leatherworking scissors", they may give a +5 to leatherworking.
But if the recipe 'requires a leatherworking', the quality of the scissors comes into account. In many cases, crafts cannot be made unless the 'required tool' is of a certain quality or higher.

So, it doesn't really matter if your shitty hide scraper is of terrible quality, unless one of your tanning recipes REQUIRES a hide scraper.

Hashtag MoreRecipesRequiringTools

No shit? I didn't know that. I figured it was just +10 for my vorpal scissors of doom.  Didn't know it mattered for the required crafts.
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Jihelu

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #15 on: May 22, 2019, 10:50:55 AM »
From what I've gathered, don't @ me I'm prob wrong, is that crafts that /require/ tools sometimes don't even get a bonus from using a tool.

Riev

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #16 on: May 22, 2019, 11:02:36 AM »
From what I've gathered, don't @ me I'm prob wrong, is that crafts that /require/ tools sometimes don't even get a bonus from using a tool.

In my experience, its because the tools often have to be "held" to provide the bonus, whereas you can't craft from a held item (because its not in inventory or 'in room'.

A "whetstone" may be REQUIRED to make a sword, or you can HOLD it to get the bonus on something where it is not required.
Which is why new crafts should 'require' the tool in the recipe, rather than just get a bonus. IMO.
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Cerelum

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2019, 11:05:44 AM »
I wish they were required to be held.  Because I've noticed that I might make say five tools of the same type, drop them on the floor and intend to use the one of good quality to have the craft use the one in the room instead.
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Riev

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #18 on: May 22, 2019, 11:09:57 AM »
I prefer the "require a tool in inventory/room" only because it enforces the need to have the 'correct tools' to do the job. Which makes it relevant that you're an ex-Kadian, who can still sew a nice silk gown, but you need a proper Kadian-quality tool to do it. Rather than "clanned" recipes, the recipe is possible for 'anyone' but only with certain tools.

Then Kadius is chasing down their tools that get stolen, or the tools eventually degrade and the thieves can't recreate Kadian garments anymore, etc.

But as far as crafting success, you could lower the "complexity" a bit, but require a tool to complete it, and that might balance things out a bit more.
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Brokkr

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #19 on: May 22, 2019, 11:52:16 AM »
Tool type:  such as honing or needle.  If it says it needs it for the craft in the recipe output, you need one.  It can be in the room, in inventory or equipped.  Each recipe that requires a tool also has a minimum quality level the tool must be.  Has nothing to do with any skill bonus.

Tool skill bonus:  Must be equipped.  Will literally be a + to a skill on your skill list.  Not necessarily consistent that all tool types have the same skill bonus, in terms of either the amount or which skills they give or don't give bonus to.

Riev

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2019, 12:30:31 PM »
Thank you for the confirmation, I didn't know the item could be equipped and still count as a "needed tool".

So still make tools required, people, but know that you can make the 'required' tool something that already gives a bonus!

(offbeat: So if a recipe is an Advanced difficulty, and your max is Advanced... using a Tool could mean that you're producing Advanced crafts at a Master level! You just need a top-quality tool!)
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Synthesis

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #21 on: May 23, 2019, 05:18:24 AM »
I will say that the (advanced) skill caps for crafting and skinning absolutely contribute to spamming behavior.

If I need 500 'sid, I need 500 'sid, and...well...I'm going to slaughter/forage/craft everything in the general vicinity until I have 500 'sid.
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Brytta Lťofa

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #22 on: May 23, 2019, 01:51:48 PM »
Suggestions:
- Make crafting success rates much higher (for crafts whose difficulty is at or below your skill level). This makes it hard to gain skill if skillgain is based on failures, so...
- Make crafting skill increase when you successfully craft something near your max difficulty.

Synth, what would be the unintended consequences of doing this?
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Synthesis

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Re: Crafting skills success rate
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2019, 02:18:38 PM »
Suggestions:
- Make crafting success rates much higher (for crafts whose difficulty is at or below your skill level). This makes it hard to gain skill if skillgain is based on failures, so...
- Make crafting skill increase when you successfully craft something near your max difficulty.

Synth, what would be the unintended consequences of doing this?

Not really a problem that needs to be fixed.  The "cost" of being a mediocre crafter is that you get less profit per time invested, along with perhaps being practically unable to craft the most difficult things, and probably don't have the ability to haggle.  The "benefit" of being a mediocre crafter is that probably your main class or subclass allows you to go and get your own raw materials.

Now, if you did something weird like roll a laborer/armormaker (non-master)...you're just gonna have to deal with it.
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I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: Smuz
I come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: Vanth
Synthesis, you scare me a little bit.