Author Topic: Capitalization and Punctuation.  (Read 945 times)

Veselka

  • Posts: 882
Capitalization and Punctuation.
« on: April 08, 2019, 12:09:26 PM »
A friendly, light-hearted PSA.

We play a text-based game that also happens to be Role-play Intensive. If it is within your power to do so and you do not have a reason you cannot do so (I'm aware that blind players have difficulty parsing punctuation through their client) please add a period at the end of your sentences. As well, capitalizing the first letter in your sentence would be excellent.

Alternatively, perhaps Staff could look into adding '.' at the end of says/tells/talks just as it adds at the end of emotes. And perhaps capitalizing the first letter as well.

To me, it isn't that it breaks immersion, it seems like people don't take the game seriously, or are just playing their 'toon'. It's a personal pet peeve of mine, and I am but a player, but do it for the children.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 12:14:04 PM by Veselka »
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

th3kaiser

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  • Posts: 426
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2019, 12:15:54 PM »
Oooh one of these threads. Good luck with your mission! I don't give you good odds of success though.

Veselka

  • Posts: 882
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2019, 12:25:59 PM »
Oooh one of these threads. Good luck with your mission! I don't give you good odds of success though.

I'm just unaware of the counter argument besides 'I'm lazy' or 'I don't want to.'
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 5303
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2019, 02:32:48 PM »
+1 - so anal about grammar. English is my 2nd language.

I'll add - Please don't break up your emotes. Learn your caps. Better 3 shorter emotes than 2 long ass ones that break apart and start with The so and so person ...... handing you the soap and dagger. She then xyz run on sentence-y.

I will purposefully misspell shit and not punctuate if playing certain elements btw.

I'm taking an indeterminate break from Armageddon for the foreseeable future and thereby am not available for mudsex.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5333
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2019, 03:08:25 PM »
The old-school style of "wot ya doin' mate" is fine, so long as it is "Wot ya doin', mate?"

My peeve is the "we told you that but we wont end up doing it sorry"

I totally understand some people play on their phone. I've tried, and I cannot do it. I'm all for it. We can't control formatting of phone-based clients, but CAN we control for formatting server side?

All speech starts with a capital letter unless preceded by a .
Code: [Select]
Someone says, in Sirihish:
  "... oh I see."

All speech ends with a period (unless it ends with a period, exclamation mark, or question mark). Even if you provide the favored ellipsis you'd get:
Code: [Select]
"I didn't realize you'd be coming all this way...." (four dots instead of three)
Even with just these two changes, I'd feel like people are giving a lot more care to the world and their roleplaying. Even if they aren't.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2019, 03:13:25 PM by Riev »
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Veselka

  • Posts: 882
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2019, 03:11:37 PM »
The old-school style of "wot ya doin' mate" is fine, so long as it is "Wot ya doin', mate?"

My peeve is the "we told you that but we wont end up doing it sorry"

I totally understand some people play on their phone. I've tried, and I cannot do it. I'm all for it. We can't control formatting of phone-based clients, but CAN we control for formatting server side?

All speech starts with a capital letter unless preceded by a .
Code: [Select]
Someone says, in Sirihish:
  "... oh I see."

All speech ends with a period. Even if you provide the favored ellipsis you'd get:
Code: [Select]
"I didn't realize you'd be coming all this way...." (four dots instead of three)
Even with just these two changes, I'd feel like people are giving a lot more care to the world and their roleplaying. Even if they aren't.

+1
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Cerelum

  • Posts: 1975
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2019, 04:25:06 PM »
I donít know why the code doesnít autocapitalize?

Make it just auto capitalize and end sentences with a period of nothing else exists.
Quote from: brytta.leofa
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Eyeball

  • Posts: 1022
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2019, 10:07:59 PM »
I donít know why the code doesnít autocapitalize?

Make it just auto capitalize and end sentences with a period of nothing else exists.

Sometimes you're continuing a sentence rather than beginning a new one.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 1022
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2019, 10:09:49 PM »
Yes, it's like reading a book. There might be a great story there, but it's just going to seem shoddy and low effort if the editor couldn't bother to get the punctuation right.

Alesan

  • Posts: 284
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2019, 12:15:12 AM »
I'm going to toss out a wager and say most of the people who are, shall we say, less interested in proper grammar might not even be the people who regularly read the forums. You're probably not reaching at least half of those people. Unfortunately.

I sympathize, though.

Riev

  • Posts: 5333
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2019, 09:30:23 AM »
I'm going to toss out a wager and say most of the people who are, shall we say, less interested in proper grammar might not even be the people who regularly read the forums. You're probably not reaching at least half of those people. Unfortunately.

I sympathize, though.

I believe the point is to make it coded, to avoid having to find those players.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Alesan

  • Posts: 284
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2019, 10:28:32 AM »
Right. Plenty of other things you can't automatically fix, though. Although capitalization and punctuation will go a long way.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7923
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2019, 10:35:29 AM »
In some games, the following automatic endings is true, unless the player includes their own manual punctuation:

say = period
talk = period
tell = period
ask = question mark
shout = exclamation point

If the player types in the period, their typed punctuation over-rides the automated punctuation.

I don't know about the current code, but maybe the staff could re-visit this at some point, see if it's possible.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Riev

  • Posts: 5333
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2019, 10:57:15 AM »
If only I knew LUA, I would find a way to alter what is being displayed and fix it on my end.

I wish I wasn't such a priss about it, but it REALLY takes me out of it, and makes me not look forward to interacting with a character, when they aren't putting in what I think is 'basic effort'.

But this also helps the phone/tablet players as well, whose clients may not be capable of this in the first place.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Veselka

  • Posts: 882
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2019, 11:29:01 AM »
If only I knew LUA, I would find a way to alter what is being displayed and fix it on my end.

I wish I wasn't such a priss about it, but it REALLY takes me out of it, and makes me not look forward to interacting with a character, when they aren't putting in what I think is 'basic effort'.

But this also helps the phone/tablet players as well, whose clients may not be capable of this in the first place.

Yes, yes, and yes.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Alesan

  • Posts: 284
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2019, 11:40:41 AM »
If only I knew LUA, I would find a way to alter what is being displayed and fix it on my end.

I wish I wasn't such a priss about it, but it REALLY takes me out of it, and makes me not look forward to interacting with a character, when they aren't putting in what I think is 'basic effort'.

But this also helps the phone/tablet players as well, whose clients may not be capable of this in the first place.

Yes, yes, and yes.

This... would actually be very simple to do in Mudlet. Now I have ideas.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1266
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2019, 11:46:26 AM »
This thread stinks a bit of elitism.

Don't think I have ever encountered a time where grammar was so bad it broke immersion or made me take much notice.

Its not that I have no sympathy at all it is just that I dont think it is bad enough warranted a thread that might potentially put new players off. As an older player it is almost almost enough me off with playing with you.

Get over it? It is a text game and everyone is trying to have fun. Rather have as many people trying than not.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 11:51:32 AM by Dresan »
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Veselka

  • Posts: 882
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2019, 11:54:47 AM »
This thread stinks a of elitism.

Don't think I have ever encountered a time where grammar was so bad it broke immersion.

Its not that I have no sympathy at all it is just that I dont think it is bad enough warranted a thead that might potentially put new players off. As an older player it is almost almost enough me off with playing with you.

Get over it? It is a text game and everyone is trying to have fun. Rather have as many people trying than not.

Ah, this is the counter argument. "This smacks of elitism". Thank you, I was curious what it would be, and that certainly fits the mold.

I wasn't aware of it being elitism to ask people to do one of the simplest things in the English language in an English dominant Text-Based Roleplaying Intensive Game. Capitalize the beginning of your sentences, and punctuate the end of them. Actually, even if it is 'Elitism', I consider it the good kind. I strive for excellence, I would like for all people playing the game to strive to the simple Elitism and Excellence of capitalization and punctuation.

It's a text based game, that is correct. It isn't fun for the people trying to take it seriously when every other person is using l33t speak and not putting in the effort to at the very least capitalize and punctuate. Why should I take those PCs seriously, or even interact with them? That, I suppose, is the elitism you mention.

Alternatively, the code change proposed would swiftly take care of both sides of the issue. For those who can't be bothered with capitalizing or punctuating, it would do it for them. For those who grimace every time they see "how are you doing" ad nauseam, it would become a non-issue.

The only option I have at this point is 'Get Over It', and I'm not sure why we would cater to the non-capitalizing/non-punctuating lazy crowd, rather than the people who actually take the game and the RP within it seriously, at least seriously enough to complete sentences properly.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Riev

  • Posts: 5333
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2019, 12:30:58 PM »
This thread stinks a bit of elitism.

Don't think I have ever encountered a time where grammar was so bad it broke immersion or made me take much notice.

Its not that I have no sympathy at all it is just that I dont think it is bad enough warranted a thread that might potentially put new players off. As an older player it is almost almost enough me off with playing with you.

Get over it? It is a text game and everyone is trying to have fun. Rather have as many people trying than not.

Its full of elitism. Obviously it is. But there used to be a time when Arm ENFORCED the roleplay of even newbies. I remember the Review flag being on by default so staff knew who to check in on and who didn't care to be critiqued in the first place.

I don't LIKE that it bothers me. I wish it didn't. But I've had way too many of the following scenarios:

Code: [Select]
[Someone] says, in Sirihish:
 "yah i'm not sure about that one ya know ha"

or even

Code: [Select]
[Someone] says, in Sirihish:
 "you should engage with a backstab but if you miss just disengage and try again"

If you just capitalize the first letter, and put a period on there, I could roll with it. Otherwise, I feel like I'm in a 90's chatroom with people who aren't putting any effort in.

In Arm, if you want to put in little effort, or you're ESL, or from a phone... whatever the excuse... the proposed fix is a net good. That it bothers me is surely elitist, but why are we dropping/lowering standards for an RPI and allowing "heh" and "haha"?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1266
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2019, 12:35:51 PM »
You are welcome, Veselka. You feel free to take this text game with utmost seriousness. I have no idea what sort of excellence you are trying achieve in this game but again I have not had any issues with the way anyone writes in the years I have played.

If coders decide the problem is so bad a coded solution is needed, well then so be it. However I still disagee, this does not need a coded solution or even this thread. Just needs some people to lighten up at best.

At least we agree on this thread being a type of elitism.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2019, 12:39:05 PM by Dresan »
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Alesan

  • Posts: 284
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #20 on: April 09, 2019, 01:06:10 PM »
Yikes - I didn't know decent grammar was such a contentious topic for some.

th3kaiser

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  • Posts: 426
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #21 on: April 09, 2019, 01:07:12 PM »
Yuuuuuuuuuup. I'm surprised there's only been a little snark so far. Good job everybody reining it in!

Veselka

  • Posts: 882
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #22 on: April 09, 2019, 01:33:37 PM »
You are welcome, Veselka. You feel free to take this text game with utmost seriousness. I have no idea what sort of excellence you are trying achieve in this game but again I have not had any issues with the way anyone writes in the years I have played.

If coders decide the problem is so bad a coded solution is needed, well then so be it. However I still disagee, this does not need a coded solution or even this thread. Just needs some people to lighten up at best.

At least we agree on this thread being a type of elitism.

Purely the excellence of complete, capitalized, and properly punctuated sentences, on a Text-Based Role Play Intensive game.

If we can add 'change mood' from player suggestion, surely we can have the above, or at the very least, request it.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2757
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #23 on: April 09, 2019, 02:22:25 PM »
Bruh imagine playing a text-based game and expecting people to properly type.

Namino

  • Posts: 296
Re: Capitalization and Punctuation.
« Reply #24 on: April 09, 2019, 02:38:22 PM »
"Fix your punctuation" is hereby the 'git gud scrub' of MUDing.