Author Topic: Life Without a Sense Of Direction  (Read 742 times)

gotdamnmiracle

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Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« on: March 30, 2019, 04:54:35 PM »
I guess since the removal of the "best guild" I really inly started using classes without the Direction Sense skill. I never realized how absolutely debilitating it can be to not have it if you plan to spend time out in the wastes. I had always assumed it was important for pitch dark room travel and little else, but I'm tossed around like a football in rooms with a bit of wind I'll admit thisis cool ansd all, but it's very -very- obnoxious and can be punishing.

Without getting too IC are there any tools that exist IG to curb this issue (anything short of a compass)? This issue reminds me of the climbing issue and there are a glut of climbing tools, yet I know of none for Direction Sense.

Would people like to see more grey area punishments rather than walking in the wrong direction over and over?

Are there things that would reasonably mitigate this issue, such as being heavier and thus tossed by the wind less, moving more slowly, etc? (I'm asking this from the perspective of common sense and not for hot IG tips. I can think of a few things that may reasonably work, but I haven't noticed a difference with).

Is going out when it's nice weather the only way?
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 04:57:11 PM by gotdamnmiracle »
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Krath

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #1 on: March 30, 2019, 04:59:36 PM »
Sunslits
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gotdamnmiracle

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #2 on: March 30, 2019, 08:44:31 PM »
Sunslits

Let's assume you're already using those, bub.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Vex

  • Posts: 226
Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #3 on: March 30, 2019, 08:46:20 PM »
It is obnoxious, but when you consider that sand storms should be eroding your clothes, skin, flesh to the bone, not unlike a belt sander on your arm, I think "getting sent in the wrong direction", is very considerate. Imagine if you simply could NOT travel, without taking equipment and hit damage, due to sandstorms?

There are various pairs of sunslits, facewraps and some masks, all of which will assist you in your navigation of storms. You can wear sunslits on your EYES, and combine it with a facewrap or mask on your FACE, to double up. There are some hat and hat-like objects you can wear, on your HEAD, that work similarly. With all three, even a pc without direction sense, has a decent per room shot, at getting where they need to go.

It's anecdotal, but my pcs with high wisdom have much less issue with dark rooms and storm rooms, so wisdom may impart some benefit there, too.

As is reasonable, remaining close to guides can help, such as WALLS. Following the wall around an area, will reduce the wind factor, and as such, allow you to navigate better.

The DIRECTION of the wind, relevant to your own movement path, matters as well, in my experience.

Really, it isn't so different, from normal navigational tricks from pre-modern times.

Overall, when designing a pc, if you know you will spend even 20% of your time out of doors, I HIGHLY recommend you get DIRECTION SENSE and CLIMB. Both are, imo, essential and not having them, is completely foolhardy.

You can get both, plus some other useful skills, from OUTLAW, the very BEST, zero karma option, imo.

http://armageddon.org/help/view/Outlaw
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Nao

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #4 on: March 30, 2019, 09:02:06 PM »
I get by fine without direction sense unless it's pitch-black. A torch helps, even if you still can't see room descriptions. The only other thing that seems to make those characters wander in random directions seem to be the worst possible sandstorms, and they are rare. Maybe you're using the wrong pair of sunslits?
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Alesan

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #5 on: March 31, 2019, 10:13:39 AM »
I get by fine without direction sense unless it's pitch-black. A torch helps, even if you still can't see room descriptions. The only other thing that seems to make those characters wander in random directions seem to be the worst possible sandstorms, and they are rare. Maybe you're using the wrong pair of sunslits?

You know what I don't like about this?

Quote
The wrong pair of sunslits

Why is there a "wrong pair of sunslits"? Is there only one right pair? Why don't they all serve the same function, if there is a coded benefit to them?

rinthrat

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #6 on: March 31, 2019, 12:10:23 PM »
Why is there a "wrong pair of sunslits"? Is there only one right pair? Why don't they all serve the same function, if there is a coded benefit to them?
Every pair of sunslits I have ever tried did the trick for my characters that did not have direction sense, outside of the highest level of sandstorm or darkness. I'm just speculating on why it doesn't seem to work for gotdamnmiracle here.

But I also don't see the issue with having lower quality items IG. Maybe the slit for the eyes is too large, or they close off poorly around the face, are too small to provide good cover, whatever. Or, possibly, that item has been overlooked and does not work at all.

Alesan

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2019, 12:28:43 PM »
Why is there a "wrong pair of sunslits"? Is there only one right pair? Why don't they all serve the same function, if there is a coded benefit to them?
Every pair of sunslits I have ever tried did the trick for my characters that did not have direction sense, outside of the highest level of sandstorm or darkness. I'm just speculating on why it doesn't seem to work for gotdamnmiracle here.

But I also don't see the issue with having lower quality items IG. Maybe the slit for the eyes is too large, or they close off poorly around the face, are too small to provide good cover, whatever. Or, possibly, that item has been overlooked and does not work at all.
Item quality is fine. What isn't fine is some items having a coded benefit and others not, despite there being no visible difference otherwise. Just that one of them works, and the other doesn't.

Cind

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #8 on: March 31, 2019, 01:12:00 PM »
That sounds more like an oversight than anything else. Quite a few game items are oversights of some kind.
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Greve

  • Posts: 151
Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2019, 02:01:11 PM »
when you consider that sand storms should be eroding your clothes, skin, flesh to the bone, not unlike a belt sander on your arm

I don't think that's true at all. Sandstorms are harsh and hazardous, but it's not going to literally destroy your body. It's not a jet engine. There are Zalanthan peoples living in the wild and individuals with the ability to navigate in a sandstorm. If it blasted the flesh off your bones, that'd be impossible. Zalanthan sandstorms aren't too dissimilar from Earth sandstorms, they're just more prevalent since the whole world is a desert.

Vex

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2019, 03:10:31 PM »
Why is there a "wrong pair of sunslits"? Is there only one right pair? Why don't they all serve the same function, if there is a coded benefit to them?

I assume, for the same reason one mekillot vest is more protective than another. Source of manufacture.

There is one pair of sunslits, that is so good, despite my many-days played pc having top class direction sense, it has never risen above advanced. I simply, cannot raise it to master. They're also desc'd as being of excellent manufacture, and quite rare and expensive, compared to mass produced, plain bone sunslits, of common vendor availability. Manufacture should matter, imo.

I don't think that's true at all.

I encourage you to find a desert, and give it a try!
"Mortals do drown so."

Namino

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2019, 04:11:24 PM »

I don't think that's true at all.

I encourage you to find a desert, and give it a try!

The idea that a sandstorm can literally strip skin off of a person's flesh is a holdover from Frank Herbert's Dune. Because so much of gritty survival fantasy comes from Dune, it's no surprise that fantasy sandstorms, including the ones on Zalanthas, are often in the minds eye so dangerous.

Quote
…Storms build up across six or seven thousand kilometers of flatlands, feed on anything that can give them a push—coriolis force, other storms, anything that has an ounce of energy in it. They can blow up to eight hundred kilometers an hour, loaded with everything loose in their way—sand, dust, everything. They can eat flesh off bones and etch bones to slivers.

However, in reality, a sandstorm can cause conjunctivitus, skin irritation due to inflamation, ashtma, and lung damage. They do not kinetically abrade the skin away as fantasy dictates. For a lark, I decided to do some rough calculations.

A sandblaster sander has a PSI of 125 in many commercial models. I assume we don't need to kick it to the maximum limit to strip skin given that you're using those to literally polish metal, so let's say a sandblaster operating at 1/4th speed can still scour the skin from your body, so ~30PSI. 30 PSI has a displacement of about 61inches of mercury at sea level at 0 Celsius (Zalanthas is hotter but this is for the sake of my mental state).

That equates to an air speed of just north of 1,035mph to get us even to one fourth the power of a sand blaster tool. IDK about you guys, but I'm not imaging supersonic winds in our sandstorms.

Edit: I made a calculation error. 1,000mph has a PSI of 19.013 rather. This is not my wheelhouse. Either way, the sort of windspeed we require to reach the ablative abilities of a powertool is LUDICROUS. The ablative power of a sandblaster as previously suggested would be north of 2,400mph wind speeds when striking a 1m tall cube face (so like a dwarf). This is not to suggest that Zalanthas is bound by the law of physics in our universe, naturally, so if we want our sandstorms to strip the skin off of people, that's fine. But earthly sandstorms cannot operate in this fashion.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 04:23:21 PM by Namino »

Brokkr

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2019, 05:19:06 PM »
Let me toss some transparency your way:

>key sunslits

If you are wearing an object with this keyword, you are getting a really decent chance to avoid going the wrong direction in those instances where you otherwise would.  Irregardless of whether you have the direction sense skill or not (it basically makes you function as if you had direction sense skill of a certain number). This chance is based on the object having this keyword, so there is no chance of an item with this keyword not giving you this benefit, although certain items may have additional benefit if they are set as having a benefit to direction sense specifically.

Note that this chance is additive to folks with the direction sense skill.  The implication here is that you may stop learning direction sense altogether if you constantly wear sunslits even though you have not reached your full potential, simply because the bonus is big enough that you never fail.


X-D

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #13 on: March 31, 2019, 09:22:49 PM »
One time...not all that long ago...only rangers had direction sense, but it was innate and 100%. NOBODY else did...sunslits did nothing. And yet...we managed. Often it meant....and I know this will come as a shock....it meant...you hired a guide! GASP! I know right, who would have thought!?

One thing that has not changed is that following somebody with the skill essentially transmits the skill to you...add in a pair of sunslits and you are golden.
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Alesan

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #14 on: March 31, 2019, 09:34:31 PM »
Let me toss some transparency your way:

>key sunslits

If you are wearing an object with this keyword, you are getting a really decent chance to avoid going the wrong direction in those instances where you otherwise would.  Irregardless of whether you have the direction sense skill or not (it basically makes you function as if you had direction sense skill of a certain number). This chance is based on the object having this keyword, so there is no chance of an item with this keyword not giving you this benefit, although certain items may have additional benefit if they are set as having a benefit to direction sense specifically.

Note that this chance is additive to folks with the direction sense skill.  The implication here is that you may stop learning direction sense altogether if you constantly wear sunslits even though you have not reached your full potential, simply because the bonus is big enough that you never fail.



This is very good to know. I retract my comments thusly.

Namino

  • Posts: 403
Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #15 on: March 31, 2019, 10:03:35 PM »
I will remark despite the helpfulness of sunslits, it is possible that even with relatively high (<advanced>) direction sense, certain conditions and areas still produce sandstorms so oppressive that you have a very good chance of being sent off course regardless of the precautions you take, so don't consider the appropriation of sunslits to be a cure-all, even if you have the skill or someone with the skill to guide you.

They do definitely help, however.

And they can be devilishly tricky to find a vendor for in certain hubs.

Cerelum

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #16 on: March 31, 2019, 10:05:51 PM »
They've made it better though.  I remember I had a warrior who went in the wrong direction like five times and then BEEP from silt sea.
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Cind

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2019, 01:03:48 AM »
Walking beside your mount, rather than being on top of it, seems to help me. This may be because my only two examples (me twice and one other person) were not perfect riders.
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gotdamnmiracle

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2019, 02:06:04 AM »
One time...not all that long ago...only rangers had direction sense, but it was innate and 100%. NOBODY else did...sunslits did nothing. And yet...we managed. Often it meant....and I know this will come as a shock....it meant...you hired a guide! GASP! I know right, who would have thought!?

One thing that has not changed is that following somebody with the skill essentially transmits the skill to you...add in a pair of sunslits and you are golden.

Though I appreciate the snark this isn't exactly possible or is awkward in some circumstances and I won't expound upon that any further.

And the comments about sunslits and various other tools is very helpful. I had no idea that beyond sunslits there was anything that one could do to help it very much.
« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 02:07:42 AM by gotdamnmiracle »
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

X-D

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2019, 02:22:27 AM »
Well, meant more as a bit of humor but true. If you choose a PC that not only does not have direction sense but also has reason to be in the wilds without a guide, I do not feel sorry for you, you knew what you were doing. I have suffered through it with many PCs in the past...and again, before sunslits did anything or there was a direction sense skill. There are other things you can do to lessen the issue slightly. And ways around it some too.
A gaunt, yellow-skinned gith shrieks in fear, and hauls ass.
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Inks

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #20 on: April 05, 2019, 07:53:10 AM »
Play a PC with dsense if you want dsense. Or one of the dozen or so subs.

Otherwise suffer in storms like you deserve, peasant!

(storm masks, sunslits, wisdom, following someone with desense)
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Feco

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Re: Life Without a Sense Of Direction
« Reply #21 on: April 05, 2019, 09:17:26 AM »
MFW the winds are fierce in only one room:

« Last Edit: April 05, 2019, 09:19:10 AM by Feco »
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