Author Topic: Throw Skill Feedback  (Read 1771 times)

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2791
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #50 on: March 31, 2019, 09:13:10 PM »
I'd even like a-

Throw knife elf north

>You ready your sweet throw

-----
"Your target has moved out of range!" no delay, instant feedback.

"Your target has disappeared!" No delay, if they hide/go invis.

Brokkr

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  • Posts: 763
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #51 on: March 31, 2019, 09:30:21 PM »
What disadvantage would you replace it with, given the power of the skill?

Cerelum

  • Posts: 2172
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #52 on: March 31, 2019, 09:42:52 PM »
What disadvantage would you replace it with, given the power of the skill?

My original complaint of delay after versus before I understand now why it's that way, to stop throwing and instantly running in to murder while they are stuck in sitting down delay.

But the complaint about throw, target moves, hides whatever, "You can't see them there" and you're still stuck in throw delay is sorta silly.  I didn't throw anything, why am I delayed?

Did the act of thinking of throwing cause my poor zalanthan mind to not be able to snap outta it for however many seconds? Heh.
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Jihelu

  • Posts: 2791
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #53 on: March 31, 2019, 09:45:58 PM »
What disadvantage would you replace it with, given the power of the skill?

Well if they hide you have to scan and by the time god lets you actually throw something at them they will be gone, or you flat out can't. (I've never been able to get throw to work on hidden things, but maybe others have)

If people are moving/running and you are trying to throw, they probably know you are there. If they don't, you're a sneaky enough boi that I don't care. If they do know you are there, they'll have enough time inbetween room movements and the fact it takes a small bit to actually throw to get away.

Brokkr

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Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #54 on: April 01, 2019, 11:51:00 AM »
Maybe I should be more explicit.  I was expecting a response of "None, Brokkr, because [insert very, very, very specific reason here]."
 Instead, you proved you really don't know what you think you do.

There is a front end DELAY for throw.  There is no wait state.  Started throwing but your target moved and you want to go north?  Type north.  Concentration breaks and you go north.

Feco

  • Posts: 1977
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #55 on: April 01, 2019, 12:01:32 PM »
Maybe I should be more explicit.  I was expecting a response of "None, Brokkr, because [insert very, very, very specific reason here]."
 Instead, you proved you really don't know what you think you do.

There is a front end DELAY for throw.  There is no wait state.  Started throwing but your target moved and you want to go north?  Type north.  Concentration breaks and you go north.

If you don't break concentration, and let it run until it returns that your target isn't there, is there not a post-throw delay that still kicks in, stopping you from moving?

I don't remember one way or the other, honestly.
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Cerelum

  • Posts: 2172
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #56 on: April 01, 2019, 12:09:48 PM »
Maybe I should be more explicit.  I was expecting a response of "None, Brokkr, because [insert very, very, very specific reason here]."
 Instead, you proved you really don't know what you think you do.

There is a front end DELAY for throw.  There is no wait state.  Started throwing but your target moved and you want to go north?  Type north.  Concentration breaks and you go north.

Im not sure if this was at me or someone else.

But this is what Iíve found to be true, whether a bug or intended feature is the question.

I hardly ever watch direction, probably should but I donít.

So how throw looks for me is this,

L E
Near
A thing is here.

Think Fuck that thing, heís gonna die!

Get knife assassin.bag
EP knife
Throw knife thing E

Aiming message

Thing moved/not there anymore message.

Stuck in delay as if I threw a knife despite not throwing the knife. (This is the part I think is broken)

« Last Edit: April 01, 2019, 12:12:05 PM by Cerelum »
Quote from: brytta.leofa
Yeah, seriously...find out OOC.



Namino

  • Posts: 403
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #57 on: April 01, 2019, 12:21:52 PM »
Maybe I should be more explicit.  I was expecting a response of "None, Brokkr, because [insert very, very, very specific reason here]."
 Instead, you proved you really don't know what you think you do.

There is a front end DELAY for throw.  There is no wait state.  Started throwing but your target moved and you want to go north?  Type north.  Concentration breaks and you go north.

If you don't break concentration, and let it run until it returns that your target isn't there, is there not a post-throw delay that still kicks in, stopping you from moving?

I don't remember one way or the other, honestly.

There is. This is actually the anti kiting archer strat, because if you move on top of them before they can cancel their shoot command, their shoot will fail because you're no longer in the direction they fired but they'll still get a post delay as if they fired, giving you time to wallop them before they kite again.

Same for throw.

However,  Brokkr is correct in if you move before the throw fails, you get no delay. But the post delay doesn't discriminate between a throw and an invalid target.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2791
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #58 on: April 01, 2019, 12:59:32 PM »
Brokkr back at it again with the "Ur wrong" and no clarification that other players had to give.

What Namino said is what I was thinking. As unless you are watching a player, or a direction I suppose, (Or spamming the shit out of look) You'll type throw and expect them to be sticking around.
Or maybe I only expect that.

Namino

  • Posts: 403
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #59 on: April 01, 2019, 01:10:22 PM »
The real issue is that DIKU, if I recall, runs on 'ticks', so commands tend to resolve at the end of a tick, so there isn't a set time for the pre-delay on throw or archery. If you begin your shoot command immediately before a tick resolves, you'll get next to no pre-delay, but if you start your shoot right after a tick resolved, then you'll sit in delay for significantly longer. This means you sort of need to 'feel out' when the tick is coming since it isn't static and make your move onto them using the goddamn force to know when you'll time it so they can't react in time to cancel the shot.

Code: [Select]
A Sheer Walled Canyon
 [E, S]
    A constant rustle comes from the vines growing all around, cascading
thickly down the walls of the canyon in a tumultous rippling mass of red-
thorned stems and gray-green, heart-shaped leaves.  The visible rock is
striated sandstone, streaked with deeply contrasting layers of rust, amber
and tawny gold.  But the soft whispering of the vines is nearly drowned out
by the echoing howl of the wind, amplified and shaped by crevices and nooks
in the rock face, resounding in an anguished wail, an ululation which sounds
like the hunting call of some large animal. The ground underfoot is covered
with a layer of pieces of flat, sharp-edged shale, disturbed here and there
by tufts of stubborn petch and gesra grass.
Looming high overheard to the eastern edge of the canyon, a towering volcanic
cliff juts up from the surface of ground.
An agate-headed arrow, fletched in grey and black, lies here.

105/120hp 137/218mv 105/114 | running, manageable, armed | late morning on Cingel

To the east: the short figure in a dusty hooded, pitch-dark greatcloak steadies herself and takes
aim with a dusty agafari elvish longbow.

105/120hp 137/218mv 105/114 | running, manageable, armed | late morning on Cingel
e
A whip-tailed turaal attempts to flee.

A whip-tailed turaal runs south.
Base of a Jagged Volcanic Cliff [N, S, W]
   At the base of a mighty black cliff, sharp jagged shards of sand fused
into rough obsidian colored pinnacles rise into the sky.  Rivulets of sand
and ash flow from further up the cliff, trickling through the cracks and
crevices in the cliff wall.  As the ground approaches the cliff the sand has
hardened and fused.  Some of the hardened glass and darkened sand underfoot
is smooth and rippled, while in other areas it rises into blades and spikes
of various sizes.
A few black-fletched arrows are here.
The short figure in a dusty hooded, pitch-dark greatcloak is standing here.
105/120hp 136/218mv 105/114 | running, manageable, armed | late morning on Cingel
bash short
You stop watching the east exit.
You slam into the short figure in a dusty hooded, pitch-dark greatcloak and knock her on her back.
#gottem

Riev

  • Posts: 5414
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #60 on: April 01, 2019, 01:12:07 PM »
Base issue: When throw completes, without a valid target, the delay is still applied.
Requested fix: When throw code is initiated and target does not exist, do not apply the delay to the PC.
Possible "intended" fix: When throw is initiated and target does not exist, omit target and continue throwing in direction.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Namino

  • Posts: 403
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #61 on: April 01, 2019, 01:14:41 PM »
Base issue: When throw completes, without a valid target, the delay is still applied.
Requested fix: When throw code is initiated and target does not exist, do not apply the delay to the PC.
Possible "intended" fix: When throw is initiated and target does not exist, omit target and continue throwing in direction.

This fix is not very good in my opinion. Kite-archery is already supremely strong and the counterplay of catching their delay when you move laterally or on top of them right as they fire  requires very tight and somewhat random timing from the non-archer, and then unless you lock them down they can spam flee which is effective free in Armageddon and begin dropping 25hp arrows onto your ass again with impunity.

Not the buff we need.

Riev

  • Posts: 5414
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #62 on: April 01, 2019, 01:21:07 PM »
I'm just summing up the requests being made.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Cerelum

  • Posts: 2172
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #63 on: April 01, 2019, 01:26:12 PM »
We are talking about throw which requires you to be one room away, not archery where you can be two or three rooms away.

Itís silly to have the delay when you donít throw it.
Quote from: brytta.leofa
Yeah, seriously...find out OOC.



Namino

  • Posts: 403
Re: Throw Skill Feedback
« Reply #64 on: April 01, 2019, 01:30:25 PM »
I'm just summing up the requests being made.

I see, my mistake. The intended fix might actually work though, because it has the additional penalty on the kiter of costing them an arrow or a thrown weapon, whereas by timing your move onto them now and them getting just the delay, it doesn't cost them ammo.