Author Topic: racial differentiation amongst humans  (Read 2600 times)

650Booger

  • Posts: 594
racial differentiation amongst humans
« on: November 19, 2018, 05:00:45 PM »
Hi all, I was wondering if the humans of zalanthas would recognize differences in skin-tone and various anatomical attributes as being racial in nature.  when reading pc mdescs I see a wide variety in skin tones ranging from pale ivory to jet black, so obviously race /is/ a thing, but perhaps not recognized in the same way that we do in modern society?  obviously there is no racial discrimination allowed (or is there?) but would my white-skinned human PC look at a black-skinned human PC and think 'that person is a different race than me'.

side question, is it considered appropriate to play a human concept that has it's basis in non-white culture?  the personality traits exhibited by most PCs in this game seem like they are nearly all derived from modern middle class white suburbia.  would it be considered okay to play an asian dude?  what about edge-cases such as playing a human tribal and RPing as a native american personality?
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1968
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #1 on: November 19, 2018, 05:12:29 PM »
no. races are elves, dwarves, humans, half-elves, half-giants, gith, things like that.

humans are humans.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Brokkr

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Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #2 on: November 19, 2018, 05:32:43 PM »
It would probably be more valid to think in terms of mutation.

Twirrs

  • Posts: 12
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #3 on: November 19, 2018, 05:39:51 PM »
Would an 'asian' character be different from a non-'asian' character?

650Booger

  • Posts: 594
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #4 on: November 19, 2018, 05:46:14 PM »
Would an 'asian' character be different from a non-'asian' character?

I can think of many ways this might be true, but I'm not really sure, and thus the question
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

Heade

  • Posts: 727
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #5 on: November 19, 2018, 05:56:29 PM »
IG skin tones and variation of facial features in Zalanthas would be viewed much how people view different eye colors IRL. No, one person haveing blue eyes and another having green eyes doesn't make them a different race. Same with skin tone and facial features in Zalanthas. Sure, some people might have a preference for what they're attracted to or whatever, just like IRL some people like green eyes.

It's purely cosmetic, and not at all viewed as an alternate "race". There is only one human race.
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BadSkeelz

  • Posts: 8406
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #6 on: November 19, 2018, 08:30:21 PM »
We're already playing in non-white cultures, by the way.
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zztri

  • Posts: 48
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #7 on: November 19, 2018, 10:26:38 PM »
Just like in Discworld, people would be racist, but there were dwarves and trollselves.

Bogre

  • Posts: 3294
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #8 on: November 19, 2018, 10:56:54 PM »
You might think of this in terms of ethnicities - do Tuluki, as a whole, tend to be paler than Allanaki? Do the Arabeti differ significantly from salt wastelanders?

I think the genetic makeup (and mutations) make things so much more a mix, and I'm not outside of families / tribes that any ethnic traits were ever established.
I tripped and Fale down my stairs. Drink milk and you'll grow Uaptal. I know this guy from the state of Tenneshi. This house will go up Borsail tomorrow. I gave my book to him Nenyuk it back again. I hired this guy golfing to Kadius around for a while.

daughterofauset

  • Posts: 69
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2018, 03:50:23 PM »
RPing as a native american personality?

I cannot speak to the rest of your post... But... Please do not do this. What are you telegraphing into "a native american personality"? There are a lot of tics and traits and habits and philosophies that have been associated with different tribes that could easily be brought in, but the phrasing of that alone makes me feel like this would be painful as hell to watch. Another game did something like this, and even wrote it into the documentation of one of the families and, as someone who actually has a fair but of American Indian blood and grew up going to pow wows and learning the actual culture of more than one tribe... It made me want to put my face through a wall.
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The mugger brandishes his wooden sword in one hand.

650Booger

  • Posts: 594
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #10 on: November 24, 2018, 01:51:49 PM »
RPing as a native american personality?

I cannot speak to the rest of your post... But... Please do not do this. What are you telegraphing into "a native american personality"? There are a lot of tics and traits and habits and philosophies that have been associated with different tribes that could easily be brought in, but the phrasing of that alone makes me feel like this would be painful as hell to watch. Another game did something like this, and even wrote it into the documentation of one of the families and, as someone who actually has a fair but of American Indian blood and grew up going to pow wows and learning the actual culture of more than one tribe... It made me want to put my face through a wall.

can you clarify please?  because it seems like you are saying that, despite being a person of indigenous ancestry yourself, you would not want to see native culture represented in zalanthas.  are you assuming I would portray these "tics and traits and habits and philosophies" incorrectly?  what makes you assume that?   do other players incorporate elements of their own RL culture into the game world?  I would contend that indeed they do, and that it is unavoidable, as we must all necessarily pull from our own life experiences when RPing.
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10389
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2018, 02:02:12 PM »
Zalanthas is not Earth, please do not bring Earth culture into it. You can rip from Earth culture, sure, but please just make it Zalanthan.
Also, I like my cootch to have a pert pink color and nice smell. Knowing my luck I would bonk someone with AIDs, get rotten box, and die miserable.

650Booger

  • Posts: 594
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #12 on: November 24, 2018, 02:03:57 PM »
Zalanthas is not Earth, please do not bring Earth culture into it. You can rip from Earth culture, sure, but please just make it Zalanthan.

sorry but this strikes me as a paradoxical statement
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10389
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #13 on: November 24, 2018, 02:07:39 PM »
Feel like you're being deliberately obtuse but in case you're not I'll try to explain.

I encourage you to use Earth as INSPIRATION for tribal/whatever-else culture and roleplay, but please do not mimic Earth cultures exactly.
Also, I like my cootch to have a pert pink color and nice smell. Knowing my luck I would bonk someone with AIDs, get rotten box, and die miserable.

650Booger

  • Posts: 594
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #14 on: November 24, 2018, 02:10:25 PM »
that, sir, is precisely what I propose.  and you sure do know how to shut down a civil conversation.  good day.
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

daughterofauset

  • Posts: 69
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #15 on: November 24, 2018, 03:51:00 PM »
RPing as a native american personality?

I cannot speak to the rest of your post... But... Please do not do this. What are you telegraphing into "a native american personality"? There are a lot of tics and traits and habits and philosophies that have been associated with different tribes that could easily be brought in, but the phrasing of that alone makes me feel like this would be painful as hell to watch. Another game did something like this, and even wrote it into the documentation of one of the families and, as someone who actually has a fair but of American Indian blood and grew up going to pow wows and learning the actual culture of more than one tribe... It made me want to put my face through a wall.

can you clarify please?  because it seems like you are saying that, despite being a person of indigenous ancestry yourself, you would not want to see native culture represented in zalanthas.  are you assuming I would portray these "tics and traits and habits and philosophies" incorrectly?  what makes you assume that?   do other players incorporate elements of their own RL culture into the game world?  I would contend that indeed they do, and that it is unavoidable, as we must all necessarily pull from our own life experiences when RPing.

Thanks for asking for the clarification. I believe if you reread my post, you will be able to pick out that I said that its fine to incorporate elements and specific details, and in fact what I am suggesting is that it would be wildly offensive to project some imagined idea of "a native american personality" on a character IC, because of the fact that when people have done things like that historically, it has been (not naming game names, but making a group of people trophy hunters who survive off of killing rare animals for insane profits and calling them conservationists in the same documents is not only contradictory but is also not reflecting "a native american like culture" as written in so many words in said documentation). There is a difference in making sure to use all the parts of an animal and walking around as a stereotype.

I also was not saying I don't trust you specificslly to do it or not do it "well". I am saying that if you like the idea of a specific thing or two, there is nothing wrong with incorporating that, but yes, a /lot/ of representation of american Indians in pop culture, games, and media is stereotypical and vaguely offensive (see: the magical Indian trope)
"This is a mugging. Now etwo your weapon and nosave combat."

The mugger brandishes his wooden sword in one hand.

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9813
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2018, 05:56:53 PM »
I'm sorry, but that totally comes across as gatekeeping.
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tapas

  • Posts: 363
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2018, 06:47:20 PM »
It might be gatekeeping if anyone borrowed something that wasn't verbing-noun names, tomahawks and scalping.

It's like someone's best understanding of Native American culture came from 90's saturday morning cartoons.

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9813
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #18 on: November 27, 2018, 07:06:41 PM »
Please, tell us all which customs that may have been in use by Native American tribes are and aren't acceptable for use in Armageddon.
Quote from: WarriorPoet
I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: Smuz
I come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: Vanth
Synthesis, you scare me a little bit.

tapas

  • Posts: 363
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #19 on: November 27, 2018, 07:38:17 PM »
Dude I'm not telling you not to play your caricature. I'm just saying, I roll my eyes whenever I see it.

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9813
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #20 on: November 27, 2018, 07:40:10 PM »
No, no...by all means...in the spirit of wishing to avoid caricatures...please...enlighten us as to which customs are and aren't acceptable for use.
Quote from: WarriorPoet
I play this game to pretend to chop muthafuckaz up with bone swords.
Quote from: Smuz
I come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
Quote from: Vanth
Synthesis, you scare me a little bit.

tapas

  • Posts: 363
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #21 on: November 27, 2018, 07:50:43 PM »
Okay. Let's see. We can start with 1950's Peter Pan. Anything you see in there has got to go.

T. Hawk from street fighter.

Johnny Depp's Kemosabe is right out.

Adapt anything you saw in Pocahontas, Legends of the Fall and Dances with Wolves with intense care.




evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1968
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #22 on: November 27, 2018, 08:03:41 PM »
i have a better idea.


let staff determine what's okay and what's not okay.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Dar

  • Posts: 1424
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #23 on: November 28, 2018, 01:52:42 AM »
Or maybe just discard the notion of trying to mimic ANY IRL culture and come up with a culture of your own. If it resembles IRL culture, fine? If it doesnt, it's also fine. Then kill, scalp, and consume anyone who rolls eyes at you ICly.

lairos

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  • Posts: 604
Re: racial differentiation amongst humans
« Reply #24 on: November 28, 2018, 10:10:07 AM »
To respond to the questions of the OP:

Every single race has a very large range of colors of skin, eye color and hair color that don't fit the norms we know in RL and some by way of small mutation which is widely accepted. Typically, as far as I am aware, racism of a different color of a race in Arm is actually frowned on because of the fact it too closely resembles things in RL. Racism in the form such as human to elf or half elf is accepted and thematic. As a caveat to this there is a wariness, hatred or dislike of Mutants such as someone with bark for skin for example, but this is more commonly found in Allanak. Mutants are pretty accepted in most other parts of the known especially that place with closed gates. At the end of the day, a human would see a human and same goes for any race. The only one that gets a little fuzzy now and then is a half elf who can sometimes be hard to discern immediately.

To the side question: I don't think I have ever personally felt that Zalanthan humans are based towards a "White culture" and I believe the game as a whole has been very good about keeping RL notions like that out of the game. Zalanthan humans are Zalanthans and come in many shapes, sizes, colors and so on and many with small mutations(despite most males being amazingly buff looking). There are the city humans, tribal humans and the mix of in-between. Based on all these examples of colors and differences I think you could very well play and write up a Zalanthan any way you want that fits within the documentation.

As a final aside to another post I saw in this thread, there is already scalping IC and has been for quite some time.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2018, 10:24:16 AM by lairos »
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