Author Topic: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs  (Read 1879 times)

gotdamnmiracle

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Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« on: October 30, 2018, 03:33:42 PM »
So it's been a while since I've hunted a dujat worm but from what I recall they, unlike their salty brethren, only drop one of each item including one lousy hunk of meat that most PCs can gobble up in two bites. I'm bringing this up in hopes that we can see something similar to the corpses of salt worms where they can be hacked up multiple times to get various slabs of meat and possibly more teeth/cuts of skin or shell.

Additionally, if they are smaller than salt worms to the point of not leaving behind a massive carcass, then they should at the least mimic carru where they leave behind multiple slabs of meat and various items that can be processed down further into more workable materials.

I'm posting this in hopes that other players can pinpoint other creatures that were missed during this overhaul or could use some touch ups.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 03:57:18 PM by gotdamnmiracle »
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Delirium

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2018, 03:55:15 PM »


I think they are smaller than salt worms but should still leave behind a lot more meat/resources than they do.

Last I checked some critters in the more... shall we say, far-flung reaches of the Known... still needed a bit of an upgrade.

There's a specific large, very colorful bird that gives you ... one stiff white feather.  :o
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Hauwke

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2018, 05:10:56 PM »
I know the Dujat you get from the Silt Sea are bigger than a HG, so they should definately be giving more than 2 bites of meat.

Synthesis

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2018, 09:03:26 PM »
Has any real hunter PC ever had not enough meat items?

By the time I hit 5 days played, usually I'm either leaving meat items on the ground or junking them, except for the rare few meat items that are valuable enough to be worth the time to collect.
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The Warshaper

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #4 on: October 30, 2018, 09:21:00 PM »
Has any real hunter PC ever had not enough meat items?

By the time I hit 5 days played, usually I'm either leaving meat items on the ground or junking them, except for the rare few meat items that are valuable enough to be worth the time to collect.

I feel like this fits the thread by also addressing the other side of the issue. Should certain animals, *cough*chalton and scrab*cough* give less meat?

Delirium

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #5 on: October 30, 2018, 09:33:34 PM »
It wouldn't be so much an issue if you could actually sell all of your meat in this starving, resource-poor world.

Even if it was just a butcher NPC who didn't pay much but would accept all the meat you have, like that hide-buying NPC in Blackwing Outpost.
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Synthesis

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2018, 09:40:23 PM »
It wouldn't be so much an issue if you could actually sell all of your meat in this starving, resource-poor world.

Even if it was just a butcher NPC who didn't pay much but would accept all the meat you have, like that hide-buying NPC in Blackwing Outpost.

It's not an issue at all.  You can make a metric fuckton of 'sid selling food items in Allanak, as long as you aren't expecting to do it with basic shit.  Especially if you have the haggle skill (and know how to use it).
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Delirium

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #7 on: October 30, 2018, 09:48:19 PM »
Until you hit the 5 per limit.

I don't want to selectively sell the best cuts for lots of money. I want to desperately sell off all the meat I brought in that I don't think I can personally eat before it goes bad, for a pocketful of change that gets me enough to fill my waterskins and have a drink at the tavern.

I want to sell everything I have and scrape by, not be surrounded by mountains of perfectly tanned hides and juicy chalton steaks (that I can't sell).
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 10:40:32 PM by Delirium »
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Lizzie

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #8 on: October 30, 2018, 10:19:52 PM »
...and that's not even five per person. That's five per NPC. If someone beat you to it, you'd be hauling that food around til it rotted, and nothing to show for it.
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Vex

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #9 on: October 30, 2018, 11:03:25 PM »
I tend to favor meat over raw product, like hide, or bone, or shell, because I cannot process a way for my pc, to leave perfectly good meat behind. But, it is an issue, that there is usually three or more hunters, with bags full of 5x steaks/raws of every type, waiting to get in and sell it all in bulk.

The idea, of there being some NPC butcher, who is only paying 5% of the meats value (with haggle script, like the mount butcher), would be very nice. It could even be a Templar, who is responsible for resolving faminine or shoring up supply issues, for various AoD outposts, so it's similar to the automated jobs, like mining and salting.

Templar, tasked with buying food, under pays local hunters, so he can pocket the rest. I'm sure, some blue screwed up his life hard enough, to get stuck with such a job.

The poor mount seller... nobody knows his pain, either.
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gotdamnmiracle

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #10 on: October 30, 2018, 11:29:44 PM »
I like this idea. You could probably see someone similar in Luirs trying to find cheap meat to feed the garrison troops. It might also reduce the indie hunter millionaire phenomenon a bit.

From a realistic standpoint you're gonna have a lot of meat from a hunt (ever kill a deer?) and some of it will probably go to waste if you can't carry it all. I imagine the same thing would happen on Zalanthas. After all, if you're a successful hunter then you're not hungry, so who gives a fuck? Just make sure you junk/bury it.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 11:32:50 PM by gotdamnmiracle »
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Synthesis

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2018, 03:27:39 AM »
I tend to favor meat over raw product, like hide, or bone, or shell, because I cannot process a way for my pc, to leave perfectly good meat behind. But, it is an issue, that there is usually three or more hunters, with bags full of 5x steaks/raws of every type, waiting to get in and sell it all in bulk.

The idea, of there being some NPC butcher, who is only paying 5% of the meats value (with haggle script, like the mount butcher), would be very nice. It could even be a Templar, who is responsible for resolving faminine or shoring up supply issues, for various AoD outposts, so it's similar to the automated jobs, like mining and salting.

Templar, tasked with buying food, under pays local hunters, so he can pocket the rest. I'm sure, some blue screwed up his life hard enough, to get stuck with such a job.

The poor mount seller... nobody knows his pain, either.

You can't process how your character would leave perfectly good meat behind...

...but you can process being able to kill a gigantic worm by your lonesome.

Until you hit the 5 per limit.

I don't want to selectively sell the best cuts for lots of money. I want to desperately sell off all the meat I brought in that I don't think I can personally eat before it goes bad, for a pocketful of change that gets me enough to fill my waterskins and have a drink at the tavern.

I want to sell everything I have and scrape by, not be surrounded by mountains of perfectly tanned hides and juicy chalton steaks (that I can't sell).

Sell the raws to PCs who can't/won't hunt for themselves.  Or just stop hunting chalton if it's not profitable, maybe?
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Nao

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2018, 04:45:25 AM »
Has any real hunter PC ever had not enough meat items?

By the time I hit 5 days played, usually I'm either leaving meat items on the ground or junking them, except for the rare few meat items that are valuable enough to be worth the time to collect.

I feel like this fits the thread by also addressing the other side of the issue. Should certain animals, *cough*chalton and scrab*cough* give less meat?
Two pieces of meat arenít too much. I would rather see a fewer chalton and scrab out there.
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Armaddict

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #13 on: October 31, 2018, 03:39:12 PM »
Chalton as a whole require revamping.  They are too populous, too convenient, and as noted, give too much resource.

Scrab are fine in my opinion, because they are at least a serious threat to the early-career hunter; once you're not worried about them, you're a meat provider, and I think that's fine.

My feeling is that carrion birds should fulfill the role that chalton do now.  Sorry, wrecking the ecosystem this hard was not worth having craftable chalton leather.  Birds are not particularly dangerous but are hard to hunt, provide good meat, and resources that are pertinent.

Some sort of additional resource/meat should probably be added to spiders and drov beetles.
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Vex

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #14 on: October 31, 2018, 04:16:12 PM »
You can't process how your character would leave perfectly good meat behind...

...but you can process being able to kill a gigantic worm by your lonesome.

I can kill a gigantic worm on my own, because I'm awesome.

I can't compute leaving meat behind, because theme and documentation. A place to sell off excess meat for next to nothing, would be an excellent way to eliminate the awkwardness of, "I have so much food, and nobody wants it!". That is not the kind of problem, anyone should really have on Zalanthas.

If you're going to get smart, at least put some effort into it...
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Hauwke

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #15 on: October 31, 2018, 04:19:00 PM »
Realistically your dinky little spear shouldnt even hurt a gigantic salt worm, regardless of how awesome you are, Is perhaps something to consider. It would be even less effective than trying to kill another human with a toothpick.

Synthesis

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #16 on: October 31, 2018, 04:34:22 PM »
Chalton as a whole require revamping.  They are too populous, too convenient, and as noted, give too much resource.

Scrab are fine in my opinion, because they are at least a serious threat to the early-career hunter; once you're not worried about them, you're a meat provider, and I think that's fine.

My feeling is that carrion birds should fulfill the role that chalton do now.  Sorry, wrecking the ecosystem this hard was not worth having craftable chalton leather.  Birds are not particularly dangerous but are hard to hunt, provide good meat, and resources that are pertinent.

Some sort of additional resource/meat should probably be added to spiders and drov beetles.

Nobody I've ever seen spam-hunts chalton past a few days played.  Everything they drop except the horn and meat can be bought in infinite quantities in Allanak already.  The only reason to hunt them is if you're too cheap to buy your own bones or hide...which is fine, if you traded haggle for skinning with your class/subclass selections.

The only reason to kill more than one or two is if you're stuck with an abysmal subclass jman skinning skill, and it takes you 10 chalton kills to get a single GOD DAMN HIDE.

Practically speaking, the reason there's chalton scraps always scattered about is because the scrabs kill them but don't consume the carcass, and then PCs ride by and skin the carcass without really needing anything it drops, just to practice skinning.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 04:36:08 PM by Synthesis »
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Delirium

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #17 on: October 31, 2018, 04:38:05 PM »
Or the scrab kill all the chalton and some joker goes around skinning them all but leaving most everything behind.

I think the problem would be solved if chalton were capable of low-level hide so one scrab doesn't end up going on a murder rampage.
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Synthesis

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2018, 04:45:48 PM »
Or the scrab kill all the chalton and some joker goes around skinning them all but leaving most everything behind.

I think the problem would be solved if chalton were capable of low-level hide so one scrab doesn't end up going on a murder rampage.

Who cares if the scrabs go on a murder rampage?  How is that adversely impacting the game?
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Quote from: Vanth
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Delirium

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #19 on: October 31, 2018, 04:46:26 PM »
Because it's jarring? Why would a scrab kill an entire pack of chalton and then not eat even one?

Same problem with the occasional rantarri rampage in Mantis Valley. It's a quirk of the code that leads to this, not realism.
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Synthesis

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #20 on: October 31, 2018, 05:10:35 PM »
Because it's jarring? Why would a scrab kill an entire pack of chalton and then not eat even one?

Same problem with the occasional rantarri rampage in Mantis Valley. It's a quirk of the code that leads to this, not realism.

There aren't any good simple solutions to the problem--assuming we even grant it the benefit of the doubt of being problematic.

1) Make chalton hide.  New problems introduced:  1) in order for them not to abjectly fail their hide checks, they'd need to have a pretty decent hide skill, which means the noobs who need to hunt chalton won't be able to find them and 2) a herd of chalton hiding is just as "jarring" as scrabs killing them but not eating them.

2) Make scrabs eat them.  New problem introduced:  the "consume corpse" code seems to be pretty generic, and doesn't seem to differentiate between corpse types.  This means every noob PC who dies to a scrab is going to get all of their gear zorched, and the TIME-HONORED bonus of corpse-looting disappears.
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Delirium

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2018, 05:14:39 PM »
Ok... make chalton timid so they flee. That should help.
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Heade

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2018, 05:21:59 PM »
Ok... make chalton timid so they flee. That should help.

What about characters who want to melee hunt without sneak? What would you propose they do, then?

I think synthesis is right, in that regard. Almost any "solution" to this problem, if it's recognized as a problem, end up creating actual playability problems instead.
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Delirium

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #23 on: October 31, 2018, 05:25:27 PM »
What about characters who want to melee hunt without sneak? What would you propose they do, then?

Um, hunt them the same way you hunt jozhal. There's a lot of options. Throwing weapons, tire them out, etc.

Or you can fight scrab. Or raptor. Or scorpions. Or vultures. Or.... etc.

It's not a huge issue. It's just a kind of jarring and slightly annoying one.
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Heade

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Re: Meat and Hunting Overhaul Oddballs
« Reply #24 on: October 31, 2018, 05:33:52 PM »
What about characters who want to melee hunt without sneak? What would you propose they do, then?

Um, hunt them the same way you hunt jozhal. There's a lot of options. Throwing weapons, tire them out, etc.

Or you can fight scrab. Or raptor. Or scorpions. Or vultures. Or.... etc.

It's not a huge issue. It's just a kind of jarring and slightly annoying one.

Sending a noob melee hunter to fight scrab? Or Raptors? Or Scorpions?

Seems like that wouldn't work very well. Chalton fill a niche as something that people can hunt relatively early on. Any changes you made to them to protect them from scrab would also protect them from said noob hunters.
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