Author Topic: Increase elf strength  (Read 3399 times)

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9676
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #25 on: October 21, 2018, 01:27:18 AM »
I'm totally against increasing strength on celves.

It might be beneficial to make celves minimum hp to be 90. Just avoid dumbass blink out story ends
95 even, but I agree entirely with this. I'd almost be inclined to consider lower values to be in the unplayable threshold :P

Umm, can't humans have lower HP than that?

Sure can.  I think I had a min-age human ranger/thief with only 80hp.

Back to the strength thing.  Strength's influence on carry capacity should be entirely reworked.  Overall, strength's influence on damage should be compressed:  raised at the low end, nerfed at the high end.

But seriously, just stop playing city elves.
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Harmless

  • Posts: 2760
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #26 on: October 21, 2018, 10:23:09 AM »
I don't know for sure but I always suspected guild choice affected stats.

In ye olden Guilds if one picked a warrior one tended to roll decent to good strength. Whereas if ye old Burglar c elf has shite strength ye only had yeself to blame.

So if high strength is what ye seek make ye a fightin main class selection and be older and stop ye whinin'. :)
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MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10075
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2018, 10:25:49 AM »
Your blow bounces off a filthy grey rat's tough skin.
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JohnMichaelHenry

  • Posts: 113
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2018, 11:09:01 AM »
I don't know for sure but I always suspected guild choice affected stats.

In ye olden Guilds if one picked a warrior one tended to roll decent to good strength. Whereas if ye old Burglar c elf has shite strength ye only had yeself to blame.

So if high strength is what ye seek make ye a fightin main class selection and be older and stop ye whinin'. :)

I know I asked in another thread and never found the answer, so... I do know that previous classes had stat bonuses. Since the classes have been reworked, what are the new stat bonuses if any? Maybe I'm not allowed to know but I am very curious. :)
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Harmless

  • Posts: 2760
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #29 on: October 21, 2018, 03:59:43 PM »
That information isn't given out probably, but I imagine you could guess by the class description.

For example, some classes have literal alcohol and pain tolerance bonuses..sounds like endurance to me. A stealthy one would likely get agility.. one described as a fighting type, especially if with brute strength, well, there you go.
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lostinspace

  • Posts: 651
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #30 on: October 21, 2018, 11:37:20 PM »
That information isn't given, but this little snippet will reveal some info.

AI means that you have above the racial cap for that stat.  There's class and age based bonuses (and penalties) to stats - that's the only way to get there except shorter-lived modifications you can get via magick, spice, and so on.

If you get AI in a stat and start at a middling age range for your class, your class probably gave you that boost.
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tapas

  • Posts: 349
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2018, 12:16:13 PM »
Empowerment should probably be moved to three karma.

High strength actually scares me more than a fireball does these days.

(Provided there is no actual change to strength.)
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 12:22:36 PM by tapas »

roughneck

  • Posts: 805
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2018, 12:42:25 PM »
Empowerment should probably be moved to three karma.

High strength actually scares me more than a fireball does these days.

(Provided there is no actual change to strength.)

Eh. That subclass seems more OP than it actually is. It’s actually kind of boring compared to other options.

tapas

  • Posts: 349
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2018, 12:57:38 PM »
Players use it because of the ease of play and the combat potential it gives their pc. I'd agree that it's boring, but that's got nothing to do with it's power.

650Booger

  • Posts: 591
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2018, 01:17:41 PM »
AI agility, master stealth city elves are fun as hell.  who cares about strength when you're a ghost.
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Shalooonsh

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 1359
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2018, 02:30:25 PM »
Just glancing through this thread, I find myself sorely in need of cheese to clear my sommelier palate.

It's not the staff don't care about making things balanced, it's the city elves are balanced. Sorry you don't agree bro, sorry your anecdotal evidence is anecdotal bro. But the pure and simple fact is that City elves and desert elves aren't going to be changed, because they work perfectly for what they are.

"But they don't do enough damage."
*gestures vaguely at a huge history of deadly elves*

"But they can't carry stuff."
*nods slightly at the mount/pack code*

"But I want to instagibb errthing and be hella smrat.*
We already have had enough high int half giants, kthx.

Elves, both City and desert, are meant to be lightweight, highly mobile guerrilla combatants.  If you are in a Toe to Toe fight with your opponent and you don't have an advantage, you're already playing an elf wrong.
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Feco

  • Posts: 1929
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2018, 02:43:23 PM »
I'll admit I don't play many elves, but I'd like to add that I've seen both city and desert elves fucking destroy in combat, chiefly when they use indirect abilities (i.e., anything other than just "kill.")

I take them more seriously than I do dwarves and humans in direct combat, because direct combat can, honestly, be escaped or avoided very easily.

I feel like elves using indirect combat strategies are as deadly as half-giants and muls using direct combat strategies.  They're borderline terrifying.
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MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10075
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2018, 03:05:42 PM »
Thrown weapons are cool and all but their damage is strength based

Also the delay on them after throwing is long enough for them to run you down and bash you
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daughterofauset

  • Posts: 69
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2018, 04:54:25 PM »
Thrown weapons are cool and all but their damage is strength based

Also the delay on them after throwing is long enough for them to run you down and bash you

If they can still move...
"This is a mugging. Now etwo your weapon and nosave combat."

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Feco

  • Posts: 1929
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2018, 04:57:27 PM »
Let's also not discount how badass elves seem to be at bashing (I assume in part because of their height).
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MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10075
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2018, 04:58:31 PM »
Also did you really suggest that I tote a mount around because my carry weight is hilariously low
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MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10075
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2018, 05:00:07 PM »
In order to play a city elf effectively, all you need to do is know how to game the code just well enough that you look competent instead of a powergamer. Meanwhile, as anyone else, just prioritize strength. It's balanced!
we are here to hack motherfuckers up with bone swords,

Dar

  • Posts: 1388
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2018, 05:12:51 PM »
While I disagree with celves increase in strength, I do think reevaluating the sheer level of benefit high strength gives may be a wise idea for the game. Currently, strength trumps every other stat. To a point where having an AI celven agility is verrry verrry nice, but having an exceptional strength of a dwarf is MONSTROUSLY INCREDIBLY AWESOME!

Not long ago, I had the option of choosing which stat to increase prior to dangerous situations, and pretty much always I elected to improve strength. From its defensive/mobility benefits of easing encumbrance, to the damage output that it offers. All in all, strength is simply far too superior a stat, compared to any other.

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10075
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2018, 05:21:32 PM »
Also did you really suggest that I tote a mount around because my carry weight is hilariously low
we are here to hack motherfuckers up with bone swords,

Dar

  • Posts: 1388
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2018, 06:04:51 PM »
Are you quoting yourself, dude? Metekillot, chill man. Everyone's got their points of view. It's great to be passionate, but it gets uncomfortable sometimes, without it adding any benefit to your point.

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10075
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2018, 06:28:19 PM »
It just seems insanely tone deaf to suggest that a city elf keep a mount because their encumbrance limit is a joke.
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tapas

  • Posts: 349
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #46 on: October 24, 2018, 07:16:16 PM »
While I disagree with celves increase in strength, I do think reevaluating the sheer level of benefit high strength gives may be a wise idea for the game. Currently, strength trumps every other stat. To a point where having an AI celven agility is verrry verrry nice, but having an exceptional strength of a dwarf is MONSTROUSLY INCREDIBLY AWESOME!

Not long ago, I had the option of choosing which stat to increase prior to dangerous situations, and pretty much always I elected to improve strength. From its defensive/mobility benefits of easing encumbrance, to the damage output that it offers. All in all, strength is simply far too superior a stat, compared to any other.

That's the gist of it. Low strength is playable.

But then you glance over to the character beside you who is wounding shit on day zero, functionally 30 days of combat grind ahead of you and can easily smash you in the first couple rounds of combat.

And you go HMMMM I might want to reconsider what I define as "playable" now.
« Last Edit: October 24, 2018, 07:17:47 PM by tapas »

number13

  • Posts: 1014
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #47 on: October 24, 2018, 08:12:59 PM »
If I was playing to win at PK match like this was a Rust server, I'd absolutely take a c-elf with AI agility over a dwarf with AI strength. 

RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 19005
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #48 on: October 24, 2018, 08:25:54 PM »
City Elves suck to play and have been complained about for so long now. It's a topic that comes up probably more often than any other singular issue with the game. Throughout the years there have been a couple instances of staff saying they were going to try to address those issues, but that never panned out.

I think staff have tried. I just think they're dealing with a concept that is on so shoddy a foundation that trying to build atop it will never work out. That foundation is thievery and weakness and tribalism. Two major detractors and one facet that can't be played with in a meaningful way.

I think it's about time for the people to get sick of these skinny thieves. Elf Genocide will be the next HRPT. Destroy them as a race so we can build them into something more enjoyable to play. 

If I was playing to win at PK match like this was a Rust server, I'd absolutely take a c-elf with AI agility over a dwarf with AI strength. 

Yeah, and by hour 400 your elf might be as capable of killing as a 1 day dwarf.

number13

  • Posts: 1014
Re: Increase elf strength
« Reply #49 on: October 24, 2018, 10:18:19 PM »

Yeah, and by hour 400 your elf might be as capable of killing as a 1 day dwarf.

If I'm metagaming, using knowledge from prior characters, and playing only to win, then my day one elf will kill a day one dwarf. And if the plan botches, the elf can run around in circles in the Rinth absolutely forever until the dwarf player gets bored, then grind up a little and try again with the same tactic.