Author Topic: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It  (Read 13066 times)

Bebop

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PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« on: October 01, 2018, 01:43:56 PM »
So this has been on my mind for awhile.  Iíve been back to the game now after four months and there is no doubt about it.  Numbers have dropped and theyíve dropped drastically.  I canít and wonít speculate as to why thatís happened over the past five years Iíve been gone.  I know around the time I left I certainly had my reasons which are irrelevant now.  But we are a community, and I think we need to calibrate sometimes.

Ultimately, Iíve been considering player retention in general and I have a lot of ideas on that - bringing old players back, fostering new ones and keeping current players.  However, as I was considering all of that one note in particular held a lot of weight and I realized it could be a topic of itís own.  I believe we need to talk about PK.  Iím going to start by discussing why I think this is a problem, in particular regarding the current state of the game as it stands.

The sandbox has clearly shrunk.  As of Friday at one point during peak hours there were 13 players on.  Now, as I said.  If we want to talk player numbers letís keep that to a different thread but I do feel like the frivolous amount of PK occuring in the game is contributing to the dwindling numbers.  Honestly, Iím at a point where Iím struggling even not to drop off again.  If this pattern continues the game will stagnate further and ultimately die off.  Not to panic, there are still plenty of peak times where the game is getting up to the high forties.  However, back five years ago mid to high sixties were standard and I would argue went on a bit longer.  There are several factors that could be adding to this but letís talk about PK in particular.

The Sandbox

PK doesnít just have IC effects it has OOC effects as well.  It can create player burn out and not just for the player of the PKíd player but also for other players that might have invested in the character PKíd emotionally and or financially.   This shrinks the sandbox either temporarily or permanently, depending on if the player rolls another character.  It can also potentially shrink the sandbox in the area that you are playing if someone goes elsewhere because PK is occurring frivolously and with too much frequency.

I feel like this is also where Tuluk being closed creates an issue.  There were many times I felt one city or the other had RP going on that I wasnít interest in or one side of the world was too PK happy.  I would then go to the other side of the world.  There is still Luirís but the Outposts do not offer much playability for support based or city based characters.

As players get more cavalier on PK even over the past few months I am watching it effect the numbers - shrinking that sandbox.  I have not been the victim of PK anytime recently but I have observed the level of PK going on and some of the reasons for which it occurs and I think itís something to take a look at.

Story Incubation and RP quality in a Shrinking Sandbox

When story ties get cut as the peak or before they really get the chance to solidify while the sandbox continues to shrink due to PK the quality of RP becomes watered down and suffers.  So youíre playing in a smaller box, with the same few players that have managed to survive and youíre trying to scrounge for RP.  This makes the RP itself convoluted and increasingly petty as players grasp for literally anything to start interest between the limited players now left that are established to interact with. 

It's also worth noting that some of those characters that stick around, are going to have made it by not sticking their neck out for PK.  Meaning, what's left in the sandbox might not be very lively RP wise.  I'm not saying that's the case.  I'm saying it's something to consider when on average you've got 13 - 25 people or less on during the one or two hours we consider peak.

I donít know about you guys but I have plenty of opportunities for petty interactions IRL.  I come to this game for story, broad, sweeping and beautiful plots and a sort of escapist virtual reality experience.  Thatís what I would like to see instead of an endless exchange of PKills for the most minor reasons possible.

Iím not saying PK doesnít have itís place.  Iím saying sometimes the game needs to be able to breath and so that backdrop can get painted for a story that will be engaging and immersive.  I'm also saying that we need consider what PKs place in the game is, and how it's currently effecting our numbers and quality of plot.  Please read till the end and hear me out.

Coded Issues

One thing I think we have to ask ourselves is have we made PK too easy?  With the new guilds a lot of people now have stealth and murder based skills that allow them to evade the crimcode day or night.  Often times, there are no soldiers stationed in any tavern in Allanak at night.  Not even the ones where nobles hang out.  There are almost no guarded zones in the city.  With the right skills you can easily kill someone in the city without even standing in the same square and by using the hide skill can you scoot away with ease.  Codedly, things have changed.  Assassin used to be a hard one to level up - and for good reason.  Likewise, those sneaky skills can be incredibly powerful.  Stealth skills can take down even magickers or powerful warriors with ease.  Something to consider.  In many ways, sneak and hide is less risky and more powerful than magickal stealth abilities.  That seems a bit wrong.  I don't know how many times I've been in a closed off tiny room with a sneaky who instantly Batman disappears.

Are there some tweaks that need to be made either with the crim code or with character guilds?  Something again to consider.  I for one think at least a couple of taverns should be secure at night.  The taverns in particular are where plots come together.  But if you think something as simple as tavern sitting and waiting for players to show could make you an easy target for some random murderer why do it? 

I donít mind the streets at night being dangerous but sitting in a tavern frequented by nobles, or the Redís likely shouldnít be one of those places.  Soldiers should be stationed there, or at least chilling in their off hours.  It shouldnít be super easy to attack someone and scoot out in places like those without the crim code providing some real risk to those that want to try.

Alternative to PK

If you want to you can be that person just looking for any perceived slight to PK but I would strongly urge against it.  The reality, is we are playing a game.  We have a limited amount of players to pool from.  The virtual world we play in doesnít have an unlimited amount of PCs.  When youíre considering ending a PC I would strongly consider alternative methods.  Even if it frustrates you, even if it puts your character at risk.  Why?  Because the end goal is to create a fun game with deep plots that engulf you and suck you in.  Thatís less likely to happen if the restart button keeps getting pressed.  I'm not saying there isn't a time and place to kill a person, there certainly is.  But if you find yourself pulling those reasons from thin air or PKing more than one person a week instead of when you're actually at risk?  Maybe you might want to stop and consider the effects you're having on the game.

There are so many creative alternatives to PK.  Having someone roughed up.  Have someone stolen from.  Publicly humiliate them.  Torture.  Slavery.  Rivaling.  Arguing.  Rumor mongering.  If you can think of a reason to kill someone IG you can just as creatively think of a reason not to kill them.  Show some creativity and I promise you it will foster a story that keeps people coming back along but this takes collective effort from players, and a staff willing to step in when PK is getting too frequent for flimsy reasons.  I donít want the staff to be able to overly police PK but I do think they should be highly aware of it and have the ability to step in when it gets to be too much.

Alternative to Tulukís Closer - An Antagonist and PVE

I believe that part of the reason for the state of things is that people are too congested and there is no escape.  I for one like to play city based characters but Luirs is not really a great place for city based characters and after PK there is no other city-state to escape too.  This can expedite burn out and keep old rivalries alive from character to character.  People are too squished in without an alternative city state to catch fresh air.  Perhaps the answer to this is to create more PVE situations but that requires more work from staff and honestly, I would be very sad for Arm to take on a more PVE instead of PVP environment.

We need our antagonist back so that petty feuds (and many of them are petty) arenít whatís driving the game and PK.

If I was going to talk about player retention I would point out that Tuluk was a long time fixture to our game that some people played exclusively in.  A good game would not just suddenly cut out that option and isolate those players from our culture.  But player retention is a different thread I don't have time or energy to start.

What is too much PK?

There is no real answer to that.  But letís think about the fact that right now at peak times weíre seeing about 35 people on during a couple of peak hours.  If even 2 PKs are occurring a week?  Thatís 8 a month.  That means a FOURTH of the regular amount of players weíre seeing are resetting every RL month.  And definitely more than that amount of PK is happening right now.  When we had double the players on on a regular basis that would have been an eighth.  Not nearly as bad.  Now, this frequency of PK is a huge chunk of the base that could either fall off, get burnt out or just have to reset. 

I believe we should be trying to drag people collectively into a story and build it.  PK is a means to an end, it shouldn't be the end all be all.  At least that's what I came up believing in this game.  It is not a hack and slash with a plot line.  This is an RP game with permadeath to add to the story and grit.  Not vice versa.

I think we need to face the reality that player numbers ARE slow and down and with that PK should be slowed.  Perhaps weíll even see an uptick if plots are allowed to actually seed and grow.

Summary

In short I am imploring you all as a community to consider finding alternatives to PK for the good of the game WHEN you can.  I am NOT saying there is no place for PK.  Iím saying I want to see PK be better roleplayed, less frequent and for more solid reasons due to playability and player retention.

There is no point in being the king of the hill if that hill is a teeny tiny sandbox lump.  I feel the game desperately needs to consider the code and how it has been far too relaxed in order to allow PK without any crim code repercussions.  I also think collectively, as a community we need to strive to create a strong tapestry that will ensnare players with a story and the depth of our interactions.

I donít know all of you or what your place is in this story we all enjoy but I hope this will seed something in the mind of players and staff or start a dialogue at the very least.  I do believe this is a valid concern giving the state and size of this game.

My Final Thoughts (from a post later in this thread)

Quote
It may be an OOC consideration, but the reality is there is an OOC element to this game because it is a virtual world.

The OOC consideration is why we have karma for powerful roles, and why people with total PK privileges like Templars are vetted before they get the role and continually followed up on.  It's the same reason it's in poor taste to attack someone who is obviously new.  Sometimes we find IG reasons to not do something because of OOC reasons to make the game better.  These types of standards aren't relegated to PC leaders.  We all have a responsibility to realize we are part of a community and a game.  If we did not have OOC considerations this is not a game you would want to play, nor would we have made it this far.  And this is what I'm trying to point out.

We are drawing from a limited pool of people.  Maybe getting PK'd doesn't dissuade you.  But it could dissuade the person you PK and the people around them.  Granted, that's not your responsibility.  I'm using your in general to whoever is reading this.  But if you don't feel like you have at least a smidgen of obligation to make the game playable and to lend yourself to plots that are fun?  We have a problem.

We're all going to have different opinions.  Ultimately, I'm addressing the player base collectively here.  You have an IC obligation to play your character, but you also have an OOC obligation to try to make the game interesting, fun and enjoyable IF you want it to stick around.

This sort of insular idea, that you just have to focus on yourself, your characters and your preferences isn't going to work.  The reality is the game is dwindling and I know on my part, and clearly on the parts of others here, a big part of the deterrent is because it's a struggle to get a good, deep story going.  I'm not stating this as a knee jerk reaction, I'm stating it as someone who has played for a decade off and on and am seeing a clear devolution and a player base that's drying up.

So either we can have a real conversation on how to make the game better, or we can hug PK for any reason we can pull out of the air tight and cling to an insular mindset.  But if there's no one else to play with and players can't be retained you can have all of the opinions you want --- but you won't have anyone left to play with.

I'm not trying to speak out of personal preference, (although obviously I'm going to have my own bias) I'm saying - hey, do we want Arm to stick around and what do we want it to look like?  In it's current state I think codedly it's tilted towards PK instead of plot for several reasons I listed here and that's what I want the PB to consider.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2018, 01:35:30 PM by Bebop »

Marauder Moe

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2018, 02:31:04 PM »
I've seen lots of graphs for peak player count and unique logins over the months/years, and indeed we've clearly lost about 1/3rd of the playerbase in the last 5 years or so. 

Has anyone (staff) done a chart for new accounts created?  It might be useful to know if the problem is player retention or new player attraction.

I can't really speak much about the state of the game currently, but I've never been driven off because I got PK'ed.  If anything, my shortest character turn-arounds were after PK deaths. 

That said, I'm an old fogy and perhaps the upcoming generation (and this game has been around long enough that we could be suffering generational taste trends) is more put off by it.

MeTekillot

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2018, 02:34:08 PM »
PKing is a lot like sex, if there's not a proper escalation everyone is going to be dissatisfied. Well, actually, a lot of the time, some dude with a macho complex leaves the interaction satisfied but that's a whole other subject.

EDIT: But I don't know about staff heavily policing or even lightly policing who kills who. I've played another MUD where a certain staffer blew ten tons of smoke up my ass any time I killed anyone and it wasn't even permadeath in most cases. THAT is an excellent way to drive players away. Do not recommend.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 02:36:55 PM by MeTekillot »
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MeTekillot

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2018, 02:42:15 PM »
Honestly if killing players makes you hard I've got a recommendation. Knock them down to mortal wounds, get them bandaged up, tell them to get the fuck off your block, and throw them out the city gates. Power move. You control their death AND their life. Use bludgeoning weapons. Strip them naked and throw them into a tavern. Steal all their shit, sell all their shit, then pay elves to steal all their shit before they even notice. Tell them it was Jimmy Crystal and the Suggins gang and shoot your name with crossbow bolts into the wall of his apartment after seducing his exclusive mate.
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MeTekillot

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2018, 02:45:35 PM »
Also regarding the crimcode: You only need to slip up for half a second to get completely and utterly fucked by the crimcode. It's beefier than you know.
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Delirium

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2018, 02:58:37 PM »
Blowguns and throwing knives just need to trigger crime code, because the alternative allows too much cheesing of the code.

I don't think player numbers are low because of PKs, though I do prefer it when there is buildup and solid rationale.

Sometimes you just gotta murder a fool. Blood lubricates the gears of politics and plots.

Yes, sometimes it ends stories prematurely, but other stories develop from that destruction.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

deskoft

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2018, 03:16:56 PM »
Not to detract from the conversation which I think is very valuable, but what are these charts that represent our loss of players? We seem to be suck in the 190-230 unique login span for the past 5 years, really. I disagree our playerbase is in a terrible shrink: off-peak has always been the same and I think peak is still the same, sans some minor changes. That said, I do think we have things to improve as a community and maybe talking about PK will help it.

The above is just my opinion, obviously, and in a community there will always be several parties thinking differently!

MeTekillot

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2018, 03:20:35 PM »
You are too new to know the days of 70-80 player peaks, deskoft.
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deskoft

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #8 on: October 01, 2018, 03:26:29 PM »
You are too new to know the days of 70-80 player peaks, deskoft.

I might be. I recall big peaks in 2014. But we still peak like that sometimes, don't we?

daughterofauset

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #9 on: October 01, 2018, 03:27:44 PM »
I would personally like to see less minion wars where sponsored characters endlessly put down the minions of other sponsored characters to /inconvenience/ the other sponsored character. Nothing is more demoralizing in a death than knowing you were the throwaway used to piss off some guy that mattered. That is RL days or weeks or occasionally even months of your life in playtime out the window sheerly because you work for a guy. Numerous times in the decade or so that I have played, I have been pked, and the majority of them have been collateral damage to piss someone else off, which is genuinely upsetting. If your feud with Amos Sponsored role is so bad that someone needs to die, go after him, not his errand boys. If it's not, then why are you picking people off who often have 100+ hours of their actual lives invested in what they are doing?
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Delirium

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #10 on: October 01, 2018, 03:34:45 PM »
Player numbers are more spread out now, and "peak time" has shifted to a few hours later than it used to be.

Numbers are lower than in the past, but seem to be in a holding pattern & normal flux rather than a steep decline.

Something to come to terms with is this: your story does not trump other peoples' stories. Harsh, maybe, but true.

Sometimes you kill them, sometimes they kill you. Sometimes your story ends before you wanted it to.

(ugh, I didn't mean to get all poetic there)

This isn't to say I'm all about random, indiscriminate PK, especially by those in power positions. It's so much more rewarding to have a long-term conflict develop because it allows for far more intricacy and give and take, but sometimes, the game really benefits from bloodshed and I don't think we should shy away from it. Just keep it grounded in solid rationale and approach the situation with the goal of telling a story, not the goal of having your PC "win" the game.
"There are no happy endings, because nothing ends." - Schmendrick

MeTekillot

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #11 on: October 01, 2018, 03:43:26 PM »
snip

Everybody wants to be a minion until it's time to die like a minion. There's trade-offs to working for powerful people.
we are here to hack motherfuckers up with bone swords,

Bebop

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2018, 03:47:03 PM »
I would personally like to see less minion wars where sponsored characters endlessly put down the minions of other sponsored characters to /inconvenience/ the other sponsored character. Nothing is more demoralizing in a death than knowing you were the throwaway used to piss off some guy that mattered. That is RL days or weeks or occasionally even months of your life in playtime out the window sheerly because you work for a guy. Numerous times in the decade or so that I have played, I have been pked, and the majority of them have been collateral damage to piss someone else off, which is genuinely upsetting. If your feud with Amos Sponsored role is so bad that someone needs to die, go after him, not his errand boys. If it's not, then why are you picking people off who often have 100+ hours of their actual lives invested in what they are doing?

Ah, this is another thing I forgot to mention in my original post.

The world needs a place for support characters that are not combat based.  They need to be allowed to do more than just serve as a pin-cushion, threat, warning etc.  This is another trend I'm seeing is that support based characters are constantly just being used as collateral damage.  Is there a place for that?  Yes.  But support characters also have their place in the world and add value to the plot and story.  It takes a long time to set up a support role character and they bring a LOT of dimension to the game and help on both an IC and OOC level - often times without use of IC skills or ever lifting a weapon.  But these players shouldn't walk around with a coded target on their back.

The code right now is not supportive of support based characters.  This is where I think again, the crim code needs to be addressed or soldiers need to be stationed in watering holes.  Taverns should not be a place where someone can walk in, murder a character that could be anyone from noble, aide to artisan crafter and walk out without anyone blinking an eye or the crim code being alerted.

Ultimately, my discussion here is about how we can better the plot and story and the ways that PK are being looked at in the culture right now that are dampening the plot and also to use the above word demoralizing on an OOC level. 

I think, as Delirium put it, there is an OOC level amount of cheese codedly (let's take a look at that) but also I think some of that is IC (let's look at that too).  Yes, there is a time and place you do have to stop a threat that is imminent or you need to make a reason or whatever reason you happen to have IG.  But again, if you are the result of 1 - 3 character deaths on a RL weekly basis, maybe there starts to be a problem when there's only 25 people logging on on average and 30ish on peak times.  Maybe it's something worth looking at.

This is a playability issue.  This is a game.  There should be a sense of reward through playing and then even in death.  Finding frivolous reasons to pursue PK creates that feeling of burnout that I'm speaking of.  We need to focus on the story and with a lower playerbase right now I think people that PK as a rule and not an exception need to be held accountable by staff.  If it's found to be IC and well thought out - cool.   If it starts going into the range of well, I kill people for every tiny perceived infraction to my character... maybe that's something we think about addressing.

I have been PK'd since I've been back to the game.  I was cool with it.  It was RP'd well and it had it's place.  What I'm observing is collectively/in general right now I fear is actually harmful to the depth of the plot being able to develop.

It's having a lot of repercussion both IC and OOC and that's why I would really like it to be taken a look at.  I would like for us all to commit to better RP and seriously considering routes and reasons for when and when not to PK.  Let's remind each other it's fun to find routes that aren't PK.  I would also like staff to take a look at the code, and make a commitment to making sure certain roles are adding to the game not just making a growing PK list.

This isn't the first time I've seen an issue like this arise, however with how small the player base is right now I feel the need to emphasize that every player death is going to have serious repercussion both IC and OOC and when it happens with frequency it may have a tendency to burn the game out.  Not just because of PK but because the effect it could have on the plot.  Maybe sometimes that's positive.  Maybe sometimes it completely dilutes the plot. 

What are the repercussions when now you can't find that merchant you needed to talk to, or someone isn't playing because they don't feel safe going into a tavern to get interaction?  What are the repercussions when a good character that was starting things in game dies because someone found a frivolous reason for them to get PKd then another character gets put into the role that isn't around or good as it but stays in it forever because they played safely and didn't warrant a PK.  I would argue if someone is getting a rise out of you?  Maybe that's enough reason to consider keeping them around longer - because that means they're doing SOMETHING to get a plot going.

This is kind of just a personal PSA and friendly reminder - hey guys, sometimes letting a story incubate leaves a better, more enjoyable game for us to all play.  PK sure, but maybe let's work on building a good story to see numbers get back up.

Deskoft - Numbers have dropped significantly.  We use to reach 50 - 90 players at peak hours on a daily basis many a' year ago when I was playing.  I don't know what people are currently saying but I haven't been here five years to see them dwindle.  It's a very stark contrast to me to come back from seeing peak numbers in the 60s to seeing 13 people on on a Friday night.

Also in so many words, this is pretty much what I am trying to say.  From Delirium -

Quote
It's so much more rewarding to have a long-term conflict develop because it allows for far more intricacy and give and take

And I do agree the world can benefit from bloodshed, but I still think codedly and RP wise this is something we need to take a look at.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 03:58:04 PM by Bebop »

daughterofauset

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #13 on: October 01, 2018, 04:01:54 PM »
snip

Everybody wants to be a minion until it's time to die like a minion. There's trade-offs to working for powerful people.

This is actually why you have various sponsored roles roping people who know better and don't want an part of it into being their unwilling pincushions because it is nearly impossible to find a suitable reason to tell x or y noble who can easily have your character killed to go piss up a rope. Should they be killed by the noble.for not playing ball or by the assassin because they did? And where is the third option?
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bcw81

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #14 on: October 01, 2018, 04:15:06 PM »
snip

Everybody wants to be a minion until it's time to die like a minion. There's trade-offs to working for powerful people.

This is actually why you have various sponsored roles roping people who know better and don't want an part of it into being their unwilling pincushions because it is nearly impossible to find a suitable reason to tell x or y noble who can easily have your character killed to go piss up a rope. Should they be killed by the noble.for not playing ball or by the assassin because they did? And where is the third option?

This is Armageddon, not 'I get to have a life and do things as a free citizen of America'. You can tell a noble 'Yeah sure, I'll work for you' and then immediately flee north. You can tell a noble 'Yeah sure I'll work for you' and then go immediately make friends with every other aide and noble out there so they don't want to murder you. You can tell  a noble 'Yeah sure, I'll work for you' and then proceed to stab that noble upside the face.

You can also proceed to tell the noble "Nah fam, I am kind'da socially inept you'd be much better off hiring an elf because I'm as dumb as they come, not to mention I'm a mutant, I mean, look at this gross thing growing on the back of my weenus." and just not take the job.

This game is about groveling under power. If you're holding onto your pride like a kangaroo holds onto it's young, you're going to piss someone off.

Quote
A female voice says, in sirihish:
     "] yer a wizard, oashi"

Krath

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #15 on: October 01, 2018, 04:23:10 PM »

This is Armageddon, not 'I get to have a life and do things as a free citizen of America'. You can tell a noble 'Yeah sure, I'll work for you' and then immediately flee north. You can tell a noble 'Yeah sure I'll work for you' and then go immediately make friends with every other aide and noble out there so they don't want to murder you. You can tell  a noble 'Yeah sure, I'll work for you' and then proceed to stab that noble upside the face.

You can also proceed to tell the noble "Nah fam, I am kind'da socially inept you'd be much better off hiring an elf because I'm as dumb as they come, not to mention I'm a mutant, I mean, look at this gross thing growing on the back of my weenus." and just not take the job.

This game is about groveling under power. If you're holding onto your pride like a kangaroo holds onto it's young, you're going to piss someone off.

This.
Armageddon is best when it's actually harsh and brutal, not when we're only pretending that it is.

daughterofauset

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #16 on: October 01, 2018, 04:37:10 PM »

I don't know where the simple notion that it is terribly demoralizing to be made a pincushion for someone else's conflict turned into something worthy of the level of hyperbole and sarcasm you are tossing at me, bcw. What did I ever do to you?

Quote from: bcw81
This is Armageddon, not 'I get to have a life and do things as a free citizen of America'.

I do enjoy the notion that this is somehow about being a free american citizen when my question was about how to get out of being pked for a. Working for someone or b. Not working for someone. The snark helped though. Really, it did. The third option that actually works and doesn't result in you having to flee is to avoid the sponsored roles altogether whenever possible.

If you're holding onto your pride like a kangaroo holds onto it's young, you're going to piss someone off.

No really, where did I say anything about pride or are you just assuming and using it to try and invalidate what I said with sarcasm?
"This is a mugging. Now etwo your weapon and nosave combat."

The mugger brandishes his wooden sword in one hand.

MeTekillot

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Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #17 on: October 01, 2018, 04:39:12 PM »
If you're a support character who makes a lot of money who doesn't want to be a pincushion for bad guys, have you thought about paying whatever nearby toughs you see to be your guard on the regular?
we are here to hack motherfuckers up with bone swords,

mansa

  • Posts: 9591
Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #18 on: October 01, 2018, 04:44:53 PM »
Data:

https://1drv.ms/x/s!AuelAW2dNA8Cg1rCWIPj-POZRF_8
Read only.  Has Unique Logins, New Accounts, Characters Made, Characters rejected.  Jump in.


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New accounts signing up have been low past months.  Drama boards draw intrigue.. no drama on /r/mud lately.
Also no stories being told

Summary
Write stories of characters and use logs of characters to bring more players in, bring old players back.
Creative writing best avenue for retention and acquisitions
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 06:59:29 PM by mansa »
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Bebop

  • Posts: 3817
Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #19 on: October 01, 2018, 04:45:48 PM »
Just FYI really don't want this to become a discussion about how to avoid being PKd.  I'm talking about code and PK frequency where other alternatives that are still thematic are available.  Also how choosing RP over frivolous Pk can deepen the plot which is needed at this time to help retain interest.

Servants getting PKd to get at their masters are a tale as old as time.  That isn't going anywhere.  However codely perhaps there are things that can get addressed so that support role characters have a fighting chance with the use of common sense and code that works.  Or so that killing a support role in some of the most virtually populated areas like taverns isn't as easy as killing them in a dark alleyway.

So if we could not injection sarcasm and have a productive discussion that would be nice. This is also not an anti PK thread.  This is a how can we make the game better thread when we have less players and Tuluk decompression is not an option.

PS - What I take away from daughterofaust is that PK of servants of a bit over done and may become another thing that could use a little OOC consideration.  To that end I agree.  Should servants still be a potential target?  Yes.  But maybe sometimes we could find more creative less permanent ways to deal with support characters and I believe that leaders IG do have an OOC obligation to try to make the game fun for this with less coded privilege.  Do you have to share that ideal?  I guess not but there is a reason one assumes that special app leaders are chosen carefully.

A Templar has total PK privilege but we all know the best ones use their IG power to grow and create plots.  Not go on a power trip.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 05:57:32 PM by Bebop »

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 10169
Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2018, 05:01:04 PM »
I'd be fine with soldiers pathing to high-population virtual areas where VIOLENT CRIME is happening but you'll definitely catch a crimflag killing someone there, won't happen in a dark alleyway, but I suppose you're probably being hyperbolic.
we are here to hack motherfuckers up with bone swords,

Lutagar

  • Posts: 283
Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2018, 05:04:51 PM »
Wanton PKing isn't going to change until the code stops rewarding being the first to escalate to murder. Backstab. Archery.  Cast 'mon un fuck you bitch'. All great examples of the code rewarding you for being the first to instigate violence. Anyone who is honestly willing to sacrifice the coded advantages to interact deserves 20 karma, but these individuals are probably 1 in a 100.

lostinspace

  • Posts: 669
Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #22 on: October 01, 2018, 05:47:11 PM »
Is PKing really wanton? I haven't noticed any more than I have seen in the past. Do any staff have a metric for PKs, is there really a dramatic rise I just haven't caught onto and when did it start?

Death and murder are facts of life in Armageddon, I guess I want to know when we cross the line into too much PK.
3/21/16 Never Forget

Miradus

  • Posts: 2208
Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #23 on: October 01, 2018, 05:52:10 PM »
Class enforcer: Oh, don't actually enforce anything.
Class raider: Oh, but don't raid players.
Class fighter: Oh, only in the sparring circle or against NPC gith.

PK is part of the game. Yeah, there's some petty shit going on with it with people killing other people who are linkdead or AFK, or who they have literally never interacted with before. And you've got some others who just metagame the shit out of the system. That behavior is wrong and you need to file complaints when it happens. Make sure the PK happening is actually story-developing, even if it ends the story for one individual.

Hey, that noble corners you and wants you to be their aide ... you don't think it's legit to ask, "What happened to your last aide?" I have seen SO many noble aides sit in Red's and throw their weight around. I'm important, you peon, I work for so-and-so. And then they're incapped in an apartment and it's suddenly OOC: You asshole, why are you killing me?

Because I work for so-and-so who hates YOUR so-and-so and paid me three large to off your fancy ass.

I've got a whole email folder dedicated to just kudos sent in from people I murdered or maimed. So ... some people like the game the way it is.

Armageddon isn't a chat room. It's unsafe. You'll get your shit stolen, possibly maimed, maybe killed. And sometimes it's just going to be because you work for the wrong person. When that happens, I do like to let you know as you lay dying that, "hey, this wasn't personal ... you're dying because of your boss." Because nobody likes to get to Mantishead and NOT know why. But that doesn't mean it's going to happen.

Otherwise, let's just remove half of the classes, require consent before ever engaging another player, and everyone sits in the Gaj and emotes how tough they are while we plan out the next fancy dress party.

I don't know if PK has gotten worse. I know there's several players who have been making it worse by doing some metagaming shit. But in a game world this small, they're going to find you and it may look like it's a whole lot of people playing that way, when the reality is that it's only a couple.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 979
Re: PKing: Let's Talk About the State of It
« Reply #24 on: October 01, 2018, 05:53:09 PM »
My impression is that giving Storytellers more freedom to independently create small things and to run small plots in a top-down manner (e.g. kicking them off by having a clan senior NPC march into a room and charge a PC leader with getting something done or stopping something), and having Storytellers make use of that freedom, would do more to help the player base than curtailing PKing.