Author Topic: Mundane Subclass Feedback  (Read 1899 times)

Delirium

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Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #75 on: July 07, 2018, 07:52:08 PM »
Skill in a weapon absolutely affects more than just your ability to defend against it.
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John

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Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #76 on: July 07, 2018, 08:07:48 PM »
Skill in a weapon absolutely affects more than just your ability to defend against it.
Sorry. I meant "in addition to contributing to offense" because that was just obvious to me so I didn't say it even though it would have made what I was saying clearer.
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sleepyhead

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Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #77 on: July 07, 2018, 08:10:14 PM »
If you think people will still choose those classes, that's fair enough, but I'm not sure they're worth a whole 2 karma anymore now that everyone gets a weapon skill of some kind out of the box.

Brokkr

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Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #78 on: July 07, 2018, 08:19:33 PM »
I'm going to leave this thread open another week (coincidentally, perhaps, a week I am on vacation).  Will be closing it when I get back on the 15th or 16th.  If you want to present your ideas, that is how long you have to do it.

mansa

  • Posts: 9464
Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #79 on: July 07, 2018, 08:36:18 PM »
Having to redo the subclasses is tough.

We have options for:

0 Karma
1 Karma
2 Karma

I think it would help to have a 'game design plan' or 'goal' for 1 Karma classes and 2 Karma classes.

0 Karma - My suggestion is to duplicate the 3 x 5 grid for regular classes, just keep the skills less and cap at advanced?

1 Karma - Various Master Crafting, and maybe 'journeyman' weapon skills?   advanced stealth and weapon skills?  Deeper crafting tree?

2 Karma - Master weapon skills, master combat and stealth skills?


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Trent

  • Posts: 21
Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #80 on: July 07, 2018, 08:44:54 PM »
Under that system people with no karma will be powerless peons no matter how long they have their character.

Narf

  • Posts: 817
Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #81 on: July 07, 2018, 08:58:24 PM »
Having to redo the subclasses is tough.

We have options for:

0 Karma
1 Karma
2 Karma

I think it would help to have a 'game design plan' or 'goal' for 1 Karma classes and 2 Karma classes.

0 Karma - My suggestion is to duplicate the 3 x 5 grid for regular classes, just keep the skills less and cap at advanced?

1 Karma - Various Master Crafting, and maybe 'journeyman' weapon skills?   advanced stealth and weapon skills?  Deeper crafting tree?

2 Karma - Master weapon skills, master combat and stealth skills?

Rather than power gating karma, I think staff would be far better served by pain-in-the-ass gating. I'd suggest reworking the subguilds from the perspective that higher karma classes are those that require more staff-side support and effort or are more open to abuse, while low karma guilds require little or none, but are otherwise on par in power.

This is much more in line with the original purpose of karma. There's not much reason why a new player to the game can't make a character that is codedly powerful, but there's plenty of reason why they should wait before playing characters that are easily abused or require a lot of staff imput.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 09:04:19 PM by Narf »

Narf

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Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #82 on: July 07, 2018, 08:59:09 PM »
Edit: Double posted instead of editing my post like I'd meant to.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2018, 09:03:34 PM by Narf »

number13

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Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #83 on: July 07, 2018, 11:37:22 PM »
Higher karma subguilds, if they exist, should give you more power up front -- more pre-branched skills, higher starting skills -- but cap out at the same place as the lower karma subguilds.

najdorf

  • Posts: 424
Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #84 on: July 08, 2018, 12:31:46 AM »
IT would be a very bad game design if higher karma grants higher caps. I wouldn't play the game as a starter, if I knew I'm handicapped from the start.

Cind

  • Posts: 1484
Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #85 on: July 08, 2018, 02:49:02 AM »
I agree with the thoughts on weaponcrafter. In the witch class days, I was an unmanifested witch for a month living solely off the fruits of my subclass in Allanak. There was one other person doing this, and it was obvious in the shops, since all either of us could really make and sell was swords. Its really difficult to get ingredients for spears offpeak and many combat role people can make knives. I say its not just a good idea; weaponcrafter needs a revamp.
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roughneck

  • Posts: 707
Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #86 on: July 08, 2018, 08:55:02 AM »
I think, if anything,higher karma should have lower starting skills - veterans know he to train skills up. Give the newbs a fighting chance! Donít let karma turn into some kind of player caste, the more equal footed we all are the better.

Karma is to restrict rare races and classes to keep the game world rich, because rare things should be rare. It also gives people that stick around a chance to keep the experience fresh with something new.

If it were up to me, I would make all subclasses 0 karma. Leave karma for magic and races.

Brokkr

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Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
« Reply #87 on: July 08, 2018, 10:57:34 AM »
    • There will be 0 karma subclasses.  There will be karma subclasses.  Discussion around changing the dynamic not in scope.

    Please stay on topic.  Subclass karma and how that will work is specifically designated as out of scope.

    stoicreader

    • Posts: 124
    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #88 on: July 09, 2018, 08:17:42 PM »
    0 karma sub guild = +2 skills of your choice cap at journeyman
    1 karma = +3 skills of your choice cap at advanced
    2 karma = +4 skills of your choice cap at master
    3 karma = have whatever you want.
    Meh

    CodeMaster

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    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #89 on: July 09, 2018, 09:12:08 PM »
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    roughneck

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    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #90 on: July 10, 2018, 07:02:24 AM »
    Physician (0 karma):
    - advanced bandage
    - advanced brew
    - advanced bandage making
    - advanced floristry
    - advanced forage

    Apothecary (1 karma):
    - master bandage making
    - master floristry
    - advanced bandage
    - advanced forage
    - (branches to) advanced brewing

    I think for the one karma Apothecary should get poisoning to advanced as well. Branch it off brewing.

    John

    • Posts: 4062
    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #91 on: July 10, 2018, 07:29:32 AM »
    Physician (0 karma):
    - advanced bandage
    - advanced brew
    - advanced bandage making
    - advanced floristry
    - advanced forage

    Apothecary (1 karma):
    - master bandage making
    - master floristry
    - advanced bandage
    - advanced forage
    - (branches to) advanced brewing

    I think for the one karma Apothecary should get poisoning to advanced as well. Branch it off brewing.

    I know when merchant existed I didn't bother choosing apothecary despite the fact extended subclasses were free because I didn't want to branch brew.
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    On Zalanthas most sweat would evaporate instantly and cool you easier, because there is no humidity. The extra air-flow of a kilt would also keep things dry.

    yousuff

    • Posts: 181
    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #92 on: July 10, 2018, 08:59:45 AM »
    Ever since I joined the game I've wanted to play a Nilazi or Elkrosian, both of which are gone :( Work on bringing them back in the new magick subguild system!

    As for Mundane subguilds, why not one centered on the silt sea?
    Silt Skimmer
    Master pilot, advanced direction sense, Journeyman forage (fishing in the sea? Maybe forage for food outdoors?), Journeyman flee, journeyman climb (man overboard!)
    yousuck

    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #93 on: July 10, 2018, 09:09:14 AM »
    Nomad should give the ability to make wilderness camp (because they live outside in camps)

    Grebber shoulder give the ability to forage food both indoors and outdoors (since it's the 'beggar' subclass IMHO)

    Caravan Guide should give the ability to hitch more than one mount and tame animals (seems logical, needs to be able to rein animals effectively)


    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #94 on: July 10, 2018, 01:00:28 PM »
    Also as has been mentioned earlier in this thread

    Archer seems more like bowyer as it stands, especially since the split of "archery" into subsets of ranged skills

    As per current helpfile:
    Archers are capable with all forms of missile weapons: bows, slings and crossbows.

    I'd propose Archer be split into sub-categories:

    Archer - Specifically the effective use of ranged weapons

    Advanced Sling
    -- Accurate, but cannot poison stones or has some limits on range, unable to obtain "very long range" slings (to my knowledge)

    Journeyman Archery + Crossbow
    -- Less accurate but able to use effectively

    Advanced Fletchery + feather working
    -- Still makes sense for crafting ammo.

    Ditch Dyeing. Buy fancy feathers from a real crafter
    Ditch Bowmaking. That's a really specialized skill and makes more sense for a specialized crafter
    Ditch Direction Sense. You can be an archer who is trained indoors. Doesn't mean you can find your way in a storm.


    Bowyer - Specifically the effective creation of ranged weapons

    Advanced Fletchery + feather working + Bowmaking + Dyeing
    -- the core crafting skills of a bowyer/fletcher

    Journeyman haggle + value
    -- to assist obtaining materials

    tapas

    • Posts: 272
    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #95 on: July 19, 2018, 11:15:21 AM »
    Slipknife seems kind of overpowered. And at only 1 karma to boot.

    Currently the only subclasses I see as go-to (for non-crafting) are slipknife and outdoorsman (2 karma). Now that most classes get weaponskills.

    Moreover I don't think slipknife should get master sneak and hide when even infiltrator (the assassin expy) doesn't even get it.

    Brokkr

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    Re: Mundane Subclass Feedback
    « Reply #96 on: July 19, 2018, 11:18:54 AM »
    Locking this topic as promised as I've started looking at the subguilds.