Author Topic: Casual Play  (Read 2408 times)

stoicreader

  • Posts: 124
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #50 on: July 05, 2018, 09:33:08 AM »
What if wayspeak happened on a third party website that can be monitored for abuses? Something like Discord meets 1984.

Meh

Riev

  • Posts: 5149
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #51 on: July 05, 2018, 10:15:44 AM »

I disappear for days, sometimes literally a week or more at a time. Sometimes even if I'm playing a sponsored role. And guess what? Life goes on, the planet continues to rotate on its axis, and all is fine. Let's contrast players who have limited playing hours with those who play excessively.

More important than playing a lot, to me, is playing reliably and consistently. If you're on two hours every single day... seriously, dude, that's actually kind of a lot. You could be a military sergeant and run short hunting expeditions with that much time if you were organized enough.

Just reposting bits for posterity. Sometimes you can't find Suhuy's PC for a week, but when you do, they are always fun and interesting to interact with. Also, it is VERY RARE for them to say "I need you to find me <x> item" and THEN disappear for a RL week (which I think is at the core of many frustrations).

Consistency is key. Second to that, by a very small margin, is do not allow plots to rely on your playtimes if you cannot BE consistent. Telling people they require your EXPRESS permissions, but then you can't be around to offer those permissions, is frankly you RPing a hardass, and IRL being a jackass.
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Delirium

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Re: Casual Play
« Reply #52 on: July 05, 2018, 01:50:42 PM »
If someone really is saying YOU CAN'T DO ANYTHING UNLESS I'M AROUND that is in fact unreasonable. However, if it's just one plot among others, why not focus on other stuff until that one plot can move forward?

Sometimes, unexpected stuff crops up and a key player can't log in. Family, job, life, computer issues, whatever. Making a player feel guilty for their absence is not going to make them want to hurry back when those issues are resolved. It's going to make them want to say 'fuck it' and play something that is fun and doesn't come with weird guilt trips attached.

On another note, I feel like this is an issue cropping up more often in recent years because of the push to include as many different clans as possible in any sort of RPT/plot push. While the push for inclusiveness is admirable, it's a simple fact of life that the more people you include, the more cumbersome it is to get OOC factors to line up in such a way that IC progress isn't unduly impeded.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 01:53:08 PM by Delirium »
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

Miradus

  • Posts: 2028
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #53 on: July 05, 2018, 02:45:04 PM »
I like Delirium's idea pretty well, though my mind is boggling at how hard it would be to code. You'd need an outside helper API to pick up all the Way content and store it until a character logged on to retrieve it. What rules would be set around this? Could a mindworm sniff through the API or only intercept "live" Ways? How long would messages exist in the API before being purged? What happens when the character dies before messages are delivered?

Pretty fascinating to think about, actually, as a coding problem.

ETA: Cut out something that belonged in the other thread.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 02:51:00 PM by Miradus »

stoicreader

  • Posts: 124
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #54 on: July 05, 2018, 05:31:30 PM »
I like Delirium's idea pretty well, though my mind is boggling at how hard it would be to code. You'd need an outside helper API to pick up all the Way content and store it until a character logged on to retrieve it. What rules would be set around this? Could a mindworm sniff through the API or only intercept "live" Ways? How long would messages exist in the API before being purged? What happens when the character dies before messages are delivered?

Pretty fascinating to think about, actually, as a coding problem.

ETA: Cut out something that belonged in the other thread.

There is an easier workaround.

1. Allow people to idle without losing water or food. Or at a reduced rate. Krathstruck would be the command to go idle. While in the state you are hyper vulnerable to attack with stun reduced to 10 points and defense turned off. Quasi sleep. Like lucid dreaming.

2. Create a psi feedback echo that echos back, "Your way message went through but appears to have been sent slowly." (Or whatever)

With this method, leaders and minions can log on in their compound, walk away, go to bed, and check any messages in the morning.

This would put greater emphasis on the coded protection of clans vs independent groups.
Meh

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7660
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #55 on: July 05, 2018, 06:34:16 PM »
I like Delirium's idea pretty well, though my mind is boggling at how hard it would be to code. You'd need an outside helper API to pick up all the Way content and store it until a character logged on to retrieve it. What rules would be set around this? Could a mindworm sniff through the API or only intercept "live" Ways? How long would messages exist in the API before being purged? What happens when the character dies before messages are delivered?

Pretty fascinating to think about, actually, as a coding problem.

ETA: Cut out something that belonged in the other thread.

There is an easier workaround.

1. Allow people to idle without losing water or food. Or at a reduced rate. Krathstruck would be the command to go idle. While in the state you are hyper vulnerable to attack with stun reduced to 10 points and defense turned off. Quasi sleep. Like lucid dreaming.

2. Create a psi feedback echo that echos back, "Your way message went through but appears to have been sent slowly." (Or whatever)

With this method, leaders and minions can log on in their compound, walk away, go to bed, and check any messages in the morning.

This would put greater emphasis on the coded protection of clans vs independent groups.

So when a Senior Agent finds your mind and tells you that if you don't come within the next hour (RL 10 minutes), they'll consider you a deserter and hunt you down like a gortok...

you'll be okay with that, right?

Personally I'd rather they simply can't find my mind, and then they'll know that either my character is already dead, or I'm not logged in. And they'll know to find something else to do til I'm around (or til they find the corpse).
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 124
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #56 on: July 06, 2018, 12:48:56 PM »
I like Delirium's idea pretty well, though my mind is boggling at how hard it would be to code. You'd need an outside helper API to pick up all the Way content and store it until a character logged on to retrieve it. What rules would be set around this? Could a mindworm sniff through the API or only intercept "live" Ways? How long would messages exist in the API before being purged? What happens when the character dies before messages are delivered?

Pretty fascinating to think about, actually, as a coding problem.

ETA: Cut out something that belonged in the other thread.

There is an easier workaround.

1. Allow people to idle without losing water or food. Or at a reduced rate. Krathstruck would be the command to go idle. While in the state you are hyper vulnerable to attack with stun reduced to 10 points and defense turned off. Quasi sleep. Like lucid dreaming.

2. Create a psi feedback echo that echos back, "Your way message went through but appears to have been sent slowly." (Or whatever)

With this method, leaders and minions can log on in their compound, walk away, go to bed, and check any messages in the morning.

This would put greater emphasis on the coded protection of clans vs independent groups.

So when a Senior Agent finds your mind and tells you that if you don't come within the next hour (RL 10 minutes), they'll consider you a deserter and hunt you down like a gortok...

you'll be okay with that, right?

Personally I'd rather they simply can't find my mind, and then they'll know that either my character is already dead, or I'm not logged in. And they'll know to find something else to do til I'm around (or til they find the corpse).

barrier up or log out.
Meh

Brytta Léofa

  • Posts: 446
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #57 on: July 06, 2018, 02:53:28 PM »
Currently if you log out with barrier up you'll return with barrier still up. Each offline contact attempt could require a barrier check for characters with barrier engaged. (Each contact attempt, so that one successful barrier piercing doesn't leave you vulnerable to contact for the whole next week while you're on vacation. Offline Amos' barrier isn't perfect, but he keeps turning it back on.)

You'd probably want to complicate things a little more than this so that two players working together couldn't determine whether someone else is online.

I think the offline psi idea is pretty fantastic for getting more play out of the players we have.
everything louder than everything else

Delirium

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Re: Casual Play
« Reply #58 on: July 06, 2018, 03:00:24 PM »
Currently if you log out with barrier up you'll return with barrier still up. Each offline contact attempt could require a barrier check for characters with barrier engaged. (Each contact attempt, so that one successful barrier piercing doesn't leave you vulnerable to contact for the whole next week while you're on vacation. Offline Amos' barrier isn't perfect, but he keeps turning it back on.)

You'd probably want to complicate things a little more than this so that two players working together couldn't determine whether someone else is online.

I think the offline psi idea is pretty fantastic for getting more play out of the players we have.

Oh I like your barrier solution! Two thumbs up.
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7660
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #59 on: July 06, 2018, 04:31:11 PM »
 It just makes it TOO easy to determine if someone is *not* dead, so soon after someone might be expecting that person to actually be dead. If you hire someone to murder Amos, and Amos logs out, and the assassin is also logged out, and you can way Amos, then you know that Amos is alive, before the assassin has a chance to tell you - or tell you otherwise. You eliminate the RP involved completely. Personally I say it's better that your character has to wonder about it for awhile. Continue to be paranoid for another few hours, or another day, until such time as you can meet up in-game, in person or via the way between you and the person who IS logged in, to find out if Amos is dead (or if Amos killed the assassin for that matter).

It's the Thanos situation in reverse.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Brytta Léofa

  • Posts: 446
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #60 on: July 06, 2018, 04:47:35 PM »
It just makes it TOO easy to determine if someone is *not* dead, so soon after someone might be expecting that person to actually be dead. If you hire someone to murder Amos, and Amos logs out, and the assassin is also logged out, and you can way Amos, then you know that Amos is alive, before the assassin has a chance to tell you - or tell you otherwise.

It should be easy to determine if someone is not dead using the Way. People have to log out so we play around the OOC reality, but it's rarely a benefit.

You can argue (and are arguing) that the highly inconsistent nature of Way communication (because people log out) keeps the Way from overpowering loads of face-to-face roleplay. But I disagree. I think that too much contact between PCs only very rarely puts a damper on roleplay (and there are in-character ways of blocking communication, starting with barrier, when that's needed). On the other hand, a lack communication between PCs stops roleplay before it can start.

Imagine if you could actually interact (via the Way, with a lag) with your Aussie/Kiwi clanmates on work nights. It brings the gameworld together in a way it should (by its own rules) be together.  I mean, we have telepathy.
everything louder than everything else

Akaramu

  • Posts: 6675
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #61 on: July 06, 2018, 05:13:44 PM »
I always thought it was weird and unrealistic that we had telepathy, but couldn't tell (sometimes for IC months or years) if someone close to us had died. Same thing with clans - they should notice an extended absence. We should know whether someone is around virtually or not.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 6051
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #62 on: July 06, 2018, 05:21:24 PM »
It just makes it TOO easy to determine if someone is *not* dead, so soon after someone might be expecting that person to actually be dead. If you hire someone to murder Amos, and Amos logs out, and the assassin is also logged out, and you can way Amos, then you know that Amos is alive, before the assassin has a chance to tell you - or tell you otherwise. You eliminate the RP involved completely. Personally I say it's better that your character has to wonder about it for awhile. Continue to be paranoid for another few hours, or another day, until such time as you can meet up in-game, in person or via the way between you and the person who IS logged in, to find out if Amos is dead (or if Amos killed the assassin for that matter).

It's the Thanos situation in reverse.

While I agree, I think this is kind of an outdated part of what we're used to.  I agree that the difference between dead and offline should be discernible.  I don't agree that it should be just a simple easy thing or a notification.  But the only reason I don't agree on that point is based off of reading novels about the Way and how there is, in actuality, searching going on.  It's not a precision link until it's locked in.

If we could find something that balances between being able to find out, but not have it be instantly discernible, that'd be where I'd put my vote.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Brytta Léofa

  • Posts: 446
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #63 on: July 06, 2018, 05:32:19 PM »
Offline Way adds a new ambiguity: when you send someone a message and they don't respond, you don't know whether they're offline or refusing to answer. This would actually change the dynamics in some interesting ways.
everything louder than everything else

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7660
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #64 on: July 06, 2018, 05:38:11 PM »
An idea...

You can send a psi message to anyone, living or dead, by targetting the name they're known by, plus at least one keyword of their sdesc. Whether that person receives it or not will depend on whether or not that PC is alive. YOU won't know if they received it or not, until they acknowledge in-game that they received it (or someone else tells you in-game).

If the person is dead you'd get the exact same message you'd get if that person were alive.

The message you'd get upon contact on someone who is either a) dead, b) not logged in, c) has their barrier up and you fail to break through it:

You attempt to contact Amos.small with the Way.

You can then send your psi as usual.

Again - YOU, the person sending the message, would not receive any indication of whether or not the psi was received unless and until you are notified in-game by that person you sent it to (or their lackey or employee or mom etc. etc.).

This would also work if you're trying to contact someone who is unconscious, or on another elemental plane.

AND

The recipient would not actually receive the psi until their character is in a position to do so (perhaps with a toggle allowing them to review messages or opt-out).
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 473
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #65 on: July 06, 2018, 06:16:36 PM »
I really wish that you couldn't just contact someone by their name alone, but I'm afraid if that were the case you'd get even more sdesc-repeating nonsense than we already have (which is a lot.)

"If you're interested in a job, contact Amosa Kadius, who is known to be a rather thin, red-haired woman."

Veselka

  • Posts: 670
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #66 on: July 06, 2018, 07:01:17 PM »
This would all be ameliorated if contact were used to carry on a conversation (continuous PSI) while spooning messages could be sent into the ether with no guarantee of success or reply.

Barrier would block all one way psionic messages with greater efficacy.

Allow people to log out with barrier up. Downside is you can’t check your voicemail. Plus side is you don’t have to check your voicemail.
The progress of greatness is tampered with by the inadequacy of mediocrity.

Harmless

  • Posts: 2689
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #67 on: July 08, 2018, 03:14:22 PM »
An idea...

You can send a psi message to anyone, living or dead, by targetting the name they're known by, plus at least one keyword of their sdesc. Whether that person receives it or not will depend on whether or not that PC is alive. YOU won't know if they received it or not, until they acknowledge in-game that they received it (or someone else tells you in-game).

If the person is dead you'd get the exact same message you'd get if that person were alive.

The message you'd get upon contact on someone who is either a) dead, b) not logged in, c) has their barrier up and you fail to break through it:

You attempt to contact Amos.small with the Way.

You can then send your psi as usual.

Again - YOU, the person sending the message, would not receive any indication of whether or not the psi was received unless and until you are notified in-game by that person you sent it to (or their lackey or employee or mom etc. etc.).

This would also work if you're trying to contact someone who is unconscious, or on another elemental plane.

AND

The recipient would not actually receive the psi until their character is in a position to do so (perhaps with a toggle allowing them to review messages or opt-out).

It's funny, I was pondering a system of just shooting a Psi to someone without being in contact with them also without any feedback given for whether or not it's received. Something like this would be a fun new mechanic and definitely help us with non-overlapping playtimes in small 3-4 person crews/clans.

+1.
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Harmless

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Re: Casual Play
« Reply #68 on: July 08, 2018, 03:22:09 PM »
This would all be ameliorated if contact were used to carry on a conversation (continuous PSI) while spooning messages could be sent into the ether with no guarantee of success or reply.

Barrier would block all one way psionic messages with greater efficacy.

Allow people to log out with barrier up. Downside is you can’t check your voicemail. Plus side is you don’t have to check your voicemail.

+1! if affected_barrier=true on login, the mud just deletes any pending messages for you and you never know if they were sent.
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RogueGunslinger

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Re: Casual Play
« Reply #69 on: July 09, 2018, 11:29:49 PM »
Edited out
« Last Edit: July 14, 2018, 09:14:48 PM by RogueGunslinger »

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7660
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #70 on: July 10, 2018, 06:33:05 AM »
At the present time I'm having a lot of trouble drumming up any kind of empathy for off-peakers in their plight. I play at the start of peak time and in the past three RL months I've had trouble forwarding certain plots because I can't find the "powers that be" logged in during peak time. From what I've been given to understand, their usual play times are in the middle of the night, and at suppertime (my time).

Off-peak has become the new peak, and peak-time is bereft of leadership roles.

So forgive me if I don't add my name to the people demanding for more stuff to do off peak. Find your leaders - who ARE logged in, and get them to lead.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

roughneck

  • Posts: 707
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #71 on: July 10, 2018, 06:49:10 AM »
At the present time I'm having a lot of trouble drumming up any kind of empathy for off-peakers in their plight. I play at the start of peak time and in the past three RL months I've had trouble forwarding certain plots because I can't find the "powers that be" logged in during peak time. From what I've been given to understand, their usual play times are in the middle of the night, and at suppertime (my time).

Off-peak has become the new peak, and peak-time is bereft of leadership roles.

So forgive me if I don't add my name to the people demanding for more stuff to do off peak. Find your leaders - who ARE logged in, and get them to lead.

'Peak' time does seem to be late AF for anyone not a night owl on CST time.

Bedtimes, people!

JohnMichaelHenry

  • Posts: 41
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #72 on: July 10, 2018, 11:33:14 AM »
Not really off topic, I'd like to mention here that in my experience, different leaders can do the same sorts of events in a much tighter time frame than others. I've had escorts and hunting/gathering expeditions that last anywhere from 2 hours (rl) to 5 hours (rl). I'm a big fan of 'git-r-done' so if I wanna go sleep I can.
I really like the shorter ones. For a ride or even an expedition into the desert, 5-6 hours is really long.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.”
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valeria

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Re: Casual Play
« Reply #73 on: July 10, 2018, 12:25:18 PM »
I don't think off peak players have the same challenges as casual players. Sure, sometimes it overlaps if you're a casual, offpeak player. But I think that otherwise, the challenges are pretty distinct.

Remembering back to my law school days, it was almost harder to be casual and on-peak because the peak players seem to be the ones that expect everyone to be around all the time always. So your work piles up at the same time that people assume you're either dead or riding the edge of storage.

Brytta Léofa

  • Posts: 446
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #74 on: July 10, 2018, 12:38:24 PM »
Not really off topic, I'd like to mention here that in my experience, different leaders can do the same sorts of events in a much tighter time frame than others. I've had escorts and hunting/gathering expeditions that last anywhere from 2 hours (rl) to 5 hours (rl). I'm a big fan of 'git-r-done' so if I wanna go sleep I can.
I really like the shorter ones. For a ride or even an expedition into the desert, 5-6 hours is really long.

This is a big deal. I've had a simple 1-on-1 meeting (I don't even remember what it was about; nothing momentous) take two RL hours. I'm a bit scared to join the Byn or any mission-heavy organization. I can easily commit to a scheduled 2-3 hour evening session most weeks, but I'm not gonna do the 5-6 hour thing more than once a quarter. I love the game and I love you guys; I just have some other stuff to do with my Whole Saturday.

Some of us, including me, could really stand to speed up the dang emoting. I'm sure that not playing while too tired, having a good feel for your character, and being in practice (I'm really rusty) help.
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