Author Topic: Casual Play  (Read 3090 times)

boog

  • Posts: 10732
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #25 on: June 27, 2018, 12:58:31 PM »
I also think there's a bit of a culture problem, and not a real code problem (although I'm not against an ingame, offline messaging system).

This. This would help so much, even offpeakers who aren't casual (just offpeak).

The offpeak population really isn't as stark as it used to be, though. There are plenty of people around during the USA days.

The issues I've seen and run into are from people who can't be on regularly.
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In Dreams

  • Posts: 156
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #26 on: June 28, 2018, 11:45:19 PM »
Casual Arm?! Oh, that'd be nice.

I'd love to play Arm casually, but I don't think there's such a thing. Playing Arm for "just" two hours in a day kinda feels worse than not playing at all because of all the PCs who want to see more of you. It's like, just barely enough to get a glimpse of the neat stuff that's happening that you don't have time to be a part of.

I don't think there's really a solution to the problem of it, though. This kind of game feels kind of like an escapist second life and to have the full, enjoyable experience of it just demands a lot of time. More than someone like me can really give anymore.

azuriolinist

  • Posts: 413
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2018, 02:08:30 AM »
I agree that a lot of the problem is focused in the culture and how many hours one is almost expected to put into play. That said, and particularly for combat/skill-oriented players, I think some changes could ease a shift in said culture.

I don't think there's really a solution to the problem of it, though. This kind of game feels kind of like an escapist second life and to have the full, enjoyable experience of it just demands a lot of time. More than someone like me can really give anymore.

There also tends to be a lot of idle time spent doing the day-to-day kind of thing, working on skills, or even waiting for other people to RP with. It's a big part of why I'm suggesting ways where skilling up could be made easier on casual players. I love how the new classes address this, and how players can be involved in plots (where skills may matter) right from the get-go.

Akaramu

  • Posts: 6708
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #28 on: June 29, 2018, 07:56:16 AM »
Playing Arm for "just" two hours in a day kinda feels worse than not playing at all because of all the PCs who want to see more of you.

Two hours a day is casual? Oooh boy. What of 5 hours a week?  :-[

roughneck

  • Posts: 745
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #29 on: June 29, 2018, 08:58:28 AM »
Playing Arm for "just" two hours in a day kinda feels worse than not playing at all because of all the PCs who want to see more of you.

Two hours a day is casual? Oooh boy. What of 5 hours a week?  :-[

2 hours a day is not casual.

Cowboy

  • Posts: 533
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #30 on: June 29, 2018, 09:05:33 AM »
Five hours a week?  This is not the game for you.  Players that prioritize their lives and have only five hours a week to play Armageddon need to lower the bar they set for enjoying this game.  You probably would get more fun doing something else with the time.  You are a casual player, of Armageddon, by choice.  Regardless of your RL situation you still choose what to do with your time.  Sounds to me like " I would like a fulltime pay check for part time work." Why?  Complex, time consuming plotlines are part of this game.  It seems unfair to reward a four or five hour a week player with some IC benefit when non-casual players work hard to get the same rewards over time.  Are there games out there where a five hour a week player is on the same footing as a 25 hour a week player?  If so, how is that handled in game play?   
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roughneck

  • Posts: 745
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #31 on: June 29, 2018, 09:51:33 AM »
Disagree - 5 hours a week may mean you have to adjust play style and choose a suitable role, but you can find a niche. You don't have to be leading a clan to enjoy Armageddon.

2 hours a day though - what role can't you do with 2 hours a day?

Let's all realize that the more options we make for the casual player, the more people will play the game. Then, instead of playing with the same hardcore players and PC's everyday, the world becomes richer as you have more numerous encounters with a broader range of characters.




Cowboy

  • Posts: 533
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #32 on: June 29, 2018, 10:20:48 AM »
That's what I said in an earlier post.  Lower the expectations of what a five hour a week player can do.  I still don't get the thought process of the player who asks to be treated diiferently because they choose to spend less time in game then others.  They want the 20+ hour a week players to keep the world alive and what it is and what they want to be a part of.  They want that world alive when they are ready and on their terms.  And they want to be buffed enough to do what?  A fighter with a shield can get by from hour #1.  You aren't going to kill gith or the work over the Byn sergeant but you can have fun.  Master craft from the get go?  What?  What plot line do you want into? What plot are you thinking you want to be part of?  I hear "I just want to be skilled enough to have fun."  No way to qualify that.   Make your own fun.   Create a character, jump in, die.  Jump in again.  That's fun. You'll either walk away or play more hours.
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stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #33 on: June 29, 2018, 10:35:22 AM »
It seems unfair to reward a four or five hour a week player with some IC benefit when non-casual players work hard to get the same rewards over time.

This is... Not appropriate.

I'm pretty sure that 100% of us, if when making our first character, were told that we needed 2 hours a day (at least) to enjoy this game, we would never have submitted the application.  Do you want new players or not?

Its hard to get folks to take their vitamins everyday. People have trouble making their bed. Why would anyone agree to 2 hours a day out of the gate?

Ohhhh you like meditation? You wanna get into that? You'll need to spend 2 hours a day. Otherwise it's not worth it.

Ohhhhh you want to run a marathon? You only need 1 hour a day. Why is running a marathon is less of a time investment over a game. How does that make sense?

This is a game sweety, its supposed to be casual play and it's supposed to be fun for casual play.

Just because some of you are willing to give up your careers and neglect your kids doesn't mean the rest of us aren't allowed to have fun.
Meh

Akariel

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Re: Casual Play
« Reply #34 on: June 29, 2018, 11:08:11 AM »
Please do not post strawman arguments to attack other players.

lairos

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Re: Casual Play
« Reply #35 on: June 29, 2018, 11:21:36 AM »
To tell anyone that if you can only spend five hours a week on Arm that it probably isn't the game for you isn't really cool at all. Honestly, the fact that people with only five hours per week to put towards a game and that they are CHOOSING to play Arm with that time says something.  Those who can not devote as much time just likely won't see as much action or be able to accomplish as much as quickly, but I still think they would be able to have fun while they played and be able to accomplish things. Will they likely be able to achieve leadership roles with it? No, but they can still have fun with their time.

I still say some form of consistency can go a long way for even casual players, even if the consistency is the same time 3 times per week or just weekends. This allows others a general way to be able to find you and interact, if that is what you are looking for. A lot of players who used to be able to devote a lot of time because of whatever reason have also changed. The game is meant to be fun and if you are having fun, no matter the time you are able to invest, then by all means they shouldn't be dissuaded from it.

As to the OP. I think maybe if there were suggestions for players on what they can do themselves that could eventually get them into a place where they might see other players or be able to get involved in something if they want that they have an opportunity to do so. I get asked a lot of questions just from starting players on what they should do first or what jobs can they do without getting into a clan. I think suggestions to casual and new players alike, such as in a new player suggestions guide would be beneficial.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5159
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #36 on: June 29, 2018, 01:19:44 PM »
The only way I'll say "only playing 5 hours a week" is a problem, is when someone volunteers for a sponsored role/leadership position but they have a variable, 5-hour-a-week schedule. At that point, its a problem, because for leadership, consistency is key. If you recruit me into the Byn, but it was during a time you NEVER play, I am never seeing you again. And that curtails my own experience and fun in the role.

However, for literally anyone else? Play whenever the hell you want. I selfishly suggest trying to play consistently. If you can only play 3 hours every Friday? Cool. I know when to catch you to invite you to stuff. If you play 4 hours per day? Awesome. I'll know you're about if I have a question.


2 hours every day isn't a casual gamer. That's how often I play video games in general, and that's my entire evening after chores, dinner, activities, and time with my girlfriend.
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Miradus

  • Posts: 2052
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #37 on: June 29, 2018, 04:33:20 PM »

Some of us are "in game" for hours upon hours, whether we're actively playing the game or not. We're available to be contacted, etc. A substantial portion of our play is idle. We "activate" when someone contacts us, shows up, etc.

I'm often working in another window until my mud window chimes a bell letting me know I've been Way'd or that someone has arrived in my room, etc.

Not everyone can do that, or wants to do that.

I do agree with both sides of this. You're going to get more out of the game the more you play. You're going to be able to reach out to a wider range of other people, be available for more activities, etc.

However, it's not mandatory for enjoyment. That all depends upon your individual tastes.

Where I do get annoyed is when I'm in organizations where leadership puts a hard clamp on all of your activities, literally demanding you talk to nobody, do nothing, go nowhere unless they are present, and then that leadership is literally never present. I've seen entire weeks go by with no leadership present, even though that leadership has mandated you have no interaction without their approval. I generally try and quit those organizations, or I end up storing. Sometimes this "do nothing" state is canonized, but other times it's just the whims of those particular leaders.






deskoft

  • Posts: 339
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #38 on: June 29, 2018, 07:46:38 PM »
I have the luxury of being able to leave my character available for a big portion of the day, even if I am not actively paying attention to the window (pretty much what Miradus said), so that I can be contacted or what not. This is a system where I am multitasking with any other tasks I need to do, and I push my armageddon brain forth (aka devote my full attention to the window) when it -does- demand my attention. I try to give some time for tavern skimming or random scenes a day.

This way, my character has a small window nook to meet new characters AND at the same time, he is available for a very ridiculous length of time but it's not like I am sacrificing my real life to do it. I am focusing on everything else until my character is needed. Obviously if I have something pretty important to do, I'll log off.

Cind

  • Posts: 1545
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #39 on: June 29, 2018, 11:20:35 PM »
For me, its not a question of the amount of time put in, its a question of availability. Lots of tasks at home at do. The Byn requires for you to be able to stay online for a few hours at a time for contracts, and since I'm not sure every sarge would let me go to gate -right before every contract,- even if I were only a runner, I haven't been in the Byn in years.

Its a good availability/time balance for some flavors of mages and indie merchants, so I can't complain. Thank god there are roles in this game that don't require you to see other players at the same time every day.
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Akaramu

  • Posts: 6708
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #40 on: June 30, 2018, 05:43:59 AM »
Thank god there are roles in this game that don't require you to see other players at the same time every day.

There used to be more of those roles.  :'(

Suhuy

  • Posts: 1064
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #41 on: July 04, 2018, 12:18:05 AM »
I think there's far too much emphasis placed on required playing hours. Not just in this thread, but I see the topic come up lots of times and it's always framed from the angle of "I can only play one or two hours a day and therefore it's not enough". This is totally not true. There are roles you might want to avoid if you're that limited, but even then... not necessarily.

I disappear for days, sometimes literally a week or more at a time. Sometimes even if I'm playing a sponsored role. And guess what? Life goes on, the planet continues to rotate on its axis, and all is fine. Let's contrast players who have limited playing hours with those who play excessively. The players who are on excessively are often inattentive and sluggish, you can feel how exhausted they are in front of their keyboards. There have been multiple instances where some PC repeatedly informs me, IC, how tired they are - I then have to find an IC way of saying "why don't you go log out for a while if that's the case" (because I know they're not talking about IC fatigue). I'd honestly rather have to chase after someone who is hard to reach then have them be crippled with exhaustion from overplaying.

More important than playing a lot, to me, is playing reliably and consistently. If you're on two hours every single day... seriously, dude, that's actually kind of a lot. You could be a military sergeant and run short hunting expeditions with that much time if you were organized enough. What I think would help is a means of increased communication tools such as the messenger NPCs which others have proposed or even an ArmageddonMUD app which lets you use telepathy only with your character. Imagine if the Way were a constantlly available outlet to reach a PC. It could be as simple as every time you log on, all your Way messages come in at once. I can already predict the arguments against having these sort of things, but if we had it you could get a lot more plots and projects going, that's for sure!

WithSprinkles

  • Posts: 402
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #42 on: July 04, 2018, 02:58:57 AM »
Text games are very much like MMOs in the sense that gamers are its life's blood. If people log in and no one's wandering around and enjoying the scenery, lots of folks will just log right back out and consider the game dead. This game has people wandering around plotting during the off peak and later in the day everyone else joins in the chaos. It's active and that should be encouraged.

There are a plethora of valid reasons why people could be in front of their screens for however many hours and I am not going to probe into their business to know why. If we want to encourage sensibility and moderation as a community, we can do so as the MMOs and console games do and put reminders about on the splash page of the game itself or on the forums. We can also share respectful tips together about how we all play. For example, putting a trigger into your personal system that goes off every hour to remind you to sit up and stretch. Otherwise, I won't count anyone else's hours and I will wave someone off if they personally comment on mine. I think that people in sponsored roles should make face time, but if they can manage limited time effectively and do something in a role that other people applied for and wanted, I circle back around to, "It's not my business."

Play as much or as little as you want, folks. Find others to do that with. Heck, I never even put much thought into what an off-peak player was until folks started talking so much about it and then I realized that I kind of am one when I feel like it. I play because I like to. I'll stop when I no longer want to. Why do I feel like I should be braiding a wreath of flowers and bopping people on the heads with it after I finish? It's a game. Enjoy it, dammit!

I'm in love with the idea of NPC runners. Beside the Gaj, outside the Aboretum, the entrance to Hathor's and outside the Noble Quarter maybe? To start. Eavesdrop checks on spoken and whispered messages to the NPC. Nobles can possibly get their messages delivered on slips of paper, but they'd still have to be initially spoken to the NPC.

The Way Answering Machine.. sounds good.. if people are limited to ONE message. Not a continuous monologue. ONE. Quit OOC gets logged, and I think Ways of this sort should be monitored too, if they get implemented.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #43 on: July 04, 2018, 10:55:37 AM »
I am greatly in favor of being able to psi while logged out. Greatly.
Meh

Insigne

  • Posts: 338
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #44 on: July 04, 2018, 12:57:22 PM »
I was thinking of something similar to the above suggestions: a way to receive psi messages while logged out. Maybe throw in an echo that's code for 'this PC is offline' and, if it's implemented a certain way, it could serve as a deterrent against Way-sniffers, too.

Delirium

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Re: Casual Play
« Reply #45 on: July 04, 2018, 01:28:05 PM »
I have a kind of radical idea, and I'm not sure how feasible it is, codedly, but hear me out:

Any character or NPC that is currently alive should be able to be Wayed, regardless of whether they are in game or not. You would likely need to include their short description when targeting them by the Way, as well as their name and any nicknames you know. You would still see their short description when sending the message. Sending a message over the Way would be extremely costly, so you would need/want to keep the message as concise and to the point as possible.

Upsides:
No more way sniffing. Ever. You can't tell if they're actually online.
Much easier to pass crucial messages to people, for RPTs or plots, etc.
Fewer "extended conversations" over the Way. People would have to use whisper, talk, etc more often.
Offpeak roles could probably get involved a lot easier. Arrange dead drops for passing of items, etc.

Downsides:
How 'barrier' works would need to be adjusted. I think it should remain as a viable way to hide your mind, or pretend to be dead.
Harder for isolated roles to have conversations without traveling to a location.

I feel like this would go a long way toward solving the problems with the Way as it currently exists.

It would both make crucial communication easier, while helping the world to feel bigger.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2018, 01:29:59 PM by Delirium »
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Akaramu

  • Posts: 6708
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #46 on: July 04, 2018, 03:27:07 PM »
I like Delirium.  :-*

Insigne

  • Posts: 338
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #47 on: July 05, 2018, 12:41:50 AM »
I have a kind of radical idea, and I'm not sure how feasible it is, codedly, but hear me out:

Any character or NPC that is currently alive should be able to be Wayed, regardless of whether they are in game or not. You would likely need to include their short description when targeting them by the Way, as well as their name and any nicknames you know. You would still see their short description when sending the message. Sending a message over the Way would be extremely costly, so you would need/want to keep the message as concise and to the point as possible.

Upsides:
No more way sniffing. Ever. You can't tell if they're actually online.
Much easier to pass crucial messages to people, for RPTs or plots, etc.
Fewer "extended conversations" over the Way. People would have to use whisper, talk, etc more often.
Offpeak roles could probably get involved a lot easier. Arrange dead drops for passing of items, etc.

Downsides:
How 'barrier' works would need to be adjusted. I think it should remain as a viable way to hide your mind, or pretend to be dead.
Harder for isolated roles to have conversations without traveling to a location.

I feel like this would go a long way toward solving the problems with the Way as it currently exists.

It would both make crucial communication easier, while helping the world to feel bigger.
+1

I'll rescind my suggestion because yours is much better. I'm just a little unsure about the complete inability to tell whether or not the person you're Waying is online - but that's because I'm the type of person who would wait the next 5-10 minutes just to be sure.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 12:45:57 AM by Insigne »

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7686
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #48 on: July 05, 2018, 06:34:25 AM »
Not in favor of anything that might tip someone off that a person is dead, that they didn't find out IC about. If you have master psi (which everyone does now), and you know Amos is always logged in at 6, and he's in your clan and hasn't posted an "I'm away for 3 days" post, and you have never had trouble getting his mind when he was logged in...and nothing else has happened IC to give any indication that he might be dead...

you should not magickally know that his character is dead just because you can't find his mind now.

We go out of our way to roleplay that our missing brethren might be "doing chores" or "at the compound" or "on gate duty" or "taking his Long Run" for a few days, when we suspect someone might be dead, but aren't sure. Eventually we conclude that yes, he's dead (though even then, sometimes they end up showing up months later, alive and well).

Guy who wants to rob an apartment - "oh yeah - he's dead, safe to loot it." No risk necessary. Guy who wants to murder the noble: "oh yeah, his aide is dead, I definitely have a chance now!" Guy who wants to BE a noble's aide: "w00t - his recent aide is dead, I'll just mosey on up and introduce myself all efficient-like."

This proposal would offer opportunities that shouldn't exist because of OOC knowledge of IC character existence, and would eliminate risk and opportunity that should exist because of lack of knowledge of IC character existence.
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Marauder Moe

  • Posts: 12820
Re: Casual Play
« Reply #49 on: July 05, 2018, 07:32:51 AM »
The proposal seems to suggest that lack of ability to contact someone would be IC knowledge that someone is dead, as realistically it should be.  We do hand-waving about how the Way is mysterious to cover up the fact that our characters can't be on-call 9-11, but surely we don't suggest that it's well common for people to be unreachable by all parties for weeks, months, or years at a time, right?

Let's also not forget that when a person dies there are other signs that the game simply can't accommodate for, like v/NPCs clannies, neighbors, friends and/or family not having heard from them.

I don't really think playing "dead, stored or bored?" really adds much to any plot.  If you want to pretend to be deceased, let's maybe allow barrier to do that.