Author Topic: Suicide Command  (Read 779 times)

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 5135
Suicide Command
« on: June 21, 2018, 01:56:45 PM »
Disclaimer: This is NOT to replace the storage requests (though I'm sure they'll significantly go down)

Sometimes characters suicide.  Currently the only way to do that is to:
A) Wish up.
B) Do something stupid IC'ly in the city so that soldiers/muls/cutthroats/aggro npcs cut you down (which may not be realistic in character behavior).
C) Walk out into the great unknown and let critter a, fall b or sea c take care of it, again,  IC'ly questionable some times.
D) Store and pretend a "happy never after" when what he/she really wants to do is slit hus/her wrists and be found by that lover/lord/mate/boss/whatever.
E) Poison yourself.

I think it's high time we have a suicide command where we can bleed out and be breedy, contact all our people and say farewell,  make them go crazy trying to save us.


Fight it out.


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BrainySmurf

  • Posts: 43
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #1 on: June 21, 2018, 02:10:08 PM »
Suicide is antithetical to Zalanthan life. I'm not saying it should never,  ever happen, but the fact that real suicide (by which I mean you kill yourself versus walking up to something that does it for you)  is gated behind requests is good. Suicide in Zalanthas is super uncommon. It's canonical that creatures here cling desperately to life even more so than on Earth by far. Giving people a suicide command is going to lead to flippant, soap opera suicide plots that are at odds with the theme. The current strenuous oversight is appropriate.

Harmless

  • Posts: 2689
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #2 on: June 21, 2018, 02:13:15 PM »
with so many great ways to ICly commit suicide as is, I kind of dislike this one.

BTW, you can basically completely cut open your arm, and if your body is resilient enough, you still won't die.

There are great places to fall from that are a guaranteed death..

Dramatic self-kills with poison, such as the very common bloodburn, aren't hard -- just shop around the Gaj from your friendly neighborhood rinthi.

Just think that such a simple command is not really needed, myself.
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MeTekillot

  • Posts: 9413
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #3 on: June 21, 2018, 02:22:02 PM »
This command would lead to fanfiction-tier soap opera plots about jilted lovers and people mad they didn't get a promotion.

Hard pass.

seidhr

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  • Posts: 503
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #4 on: June 21, 2018, 02:46:12 PM »
No way.  There are already enough players that will spam walk into the silt sea when they don't get amazing stats.

About a week ago, one guy was trying so hard to stat suicide and the sandstorm outside Red Storm was raging so hard he couldn't go far enough "south" successfully as his directions kept getting turned around, he had to rest about 3 times (in a sandstorm) to finally make it to oblivion.  (And yes, it's super obvious to staff when people do that, and it's frowned upon)

Why make it any easier than it already is?

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 9413
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2018, 03:04:28 PM »
How could I, the most powerful of gamers, have not included seidhr's obvious rebuttal to this idea in my takedown of it? I am shamed.

CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1096
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #6 on: June 21, 2018, 03:28:42 PM »
About a week ago, one guy was trying so hard to stat suicide and the sandstorm outside Red Storm was raging so hard he couldn't go far enough "south" successfully as his directions kept getting turned around, he had to rest about 3 times (in a sandstorm) to finally make it to oblivion.
Very sad!
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BadSkeelz

  • Posts: 8361
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2018, 03:32:52 PM »
I disagree with this idea for all the reasons others have posted.
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CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1096
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #8 on: June 21, 2018, 04:08:29 PM »
I'll add one more point against adding such a command.  From a storytelling perspective I think killing one's character is the most boring end.  (So is retirement, but it's a little more understandable)

Say you're unsatisfied with a brand new character (maybe the stats don't work for you, maybe the concept isn't sticking, maybe you realize you really prefer playing in Allanak -- whatever).  Instead of walking that character out into the sea, or drinking poo, or attacking a group of soldiers, why not do something that'll involve other players?  Burn your sid, enter desperation mode, and:

- Challenge another PC to a duel to the death
- Mug another PC
- Follow another PC into their compound to rob them
- Disrespect a PC templar
- Try to steal something from a PC nobleman

These are crazy things to do, but believable from a desperate character.  Better than silently walking your character into the sea of silt, which means the time you spent writing a description and background benefited nobody and was a total waste.

If your character's more established (and not sponsored), there are still things you can do that might hasten your demise but will create story.  Betray your employer, attempt a coupe, try to steal a wagon, whatever.

You might say "but my character wouldn't do that!"  Then change your character - have him/her snap.  Maybe s/he saw a vicious and injust execution, or an armless beggar on the street, or was virtually told a story about a templar that wiped out an entire village.  Zalanthas is full of things that could believably change how a person behaves.  Just keep your character believable and -- in my humble opinion -- you're doing a service to the game.
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Lizzie

  • Posts: 7660
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #9 on: June 21, 2018, 04:54:01 PM »
I'm not on board with a suicide command either, for the reasons mentioned in previous posts.

However, the options CodeMaster suggests, I don't suggest. If you, the player, are dissatisfied with your character, do NOT grief the game by intentionally trying to kill another PC. Because if you end up getting a lucky shot, you will have killed someone else's PC for purely OOC reasons (because you, the player, were dissatisfied with your character).

In addition, sometimes it doesn't turn out how you expect it to. I had a character, played for several RL months on a regular daily basis, and roleplayed myself into a corner and I was really just over it and wanted her gone. So I made my character "not likeable." Had her become grumpier and grumpier, argumentative, contrary, blaming other people for her foibles, intentionally not telling people things she was asked to tell them, etc. etc.

And after two MORE MONTHS of being stuck with this character I couldn't stand anymore, I finally sent her off riding (which was something she enjoyed doing all the time anyway), and allowed herself to be killed by two carrus (she killed the first one and almost killed the second, thankfully it got a solid blow in at the last minute).

If she had lived through that, the next step would've been going the other direction and letting the kryls get her.

Why didn't I submit a storage request? Because I just couldn't wait another day. I let it get too unbearable, and really REALLY wanted to play another character right away, mostly to get the stench of failure off my keyboard.

Although the staff really doesn't like when people do this, I personally feel that as long as it makes IC sense for your character to do something that will ultimately get them killed, they shouldn't be afraid to do it.

Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
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CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1096
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2018, 05:24:36 PM »
Although the staff really doesn't like when people do this, I personally feel that as long as it makes IC sense for your character to do something that will ultimately get them killed, they shouldn't be afraid to do it.

I agree with this
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Akariel

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  • Posts: 549
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2018, 06:00:55 PM »
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Suicide

Quote
Suicide

(Gameplay  Edit )

Suicide is a serious matter in both real life and on Armageddon, and as such, should not be taken lightly, or as a method of ceasing the play of a character. The people of Zalanthas generally have terribly strong desires for self-preservation, and this is reflected in that there is no easy way to inflict damage upon yourself to commit suicide. However, this does not mean that it is impossible to kill yourself, but you will have to figure out exactly how on your own.

Notes:
If you are mortally wounded (below 0 HPs), you may hasten your character's end by typing 'quit die'. This will end your character's life.
See Also:

quit, rules, storage

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7660
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2018, 08:35:55 PM »
I should clarify: I don't mean to suggest that a player should make their character want to kill themselves, and then go about getting it done.

I'm suggesting that players who are "done" with their characters, and don't want to wait to store, or would like their characters to go out with closure, can always have their character do something that makes sense to do for them, in normal circumstances, that is risky, and let the consequences happen organically.

Such as - knowing you can usually take down a particular critter, and going out to hunt. But maybe venturing a little further than usual even though you, the player, know there's a 4-room-drop 2 rooms away from the usual hunting spot. Or seeing a tregil just off the road in a spot it doesn't usually spawn, and going to investigate. Even though you, the player, know that a rantarri usually spawns 1 room to the west of the room you pass through, in order to get to that tregil.

Or tattle on a Guild member. Or decide your character should get to know the local raider crew and pay them off as a pre-emptive measure - but he forgets to bring anything valueable with him.

Hopefully you get the idea.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 5135
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2018, 09:17:08 PM »
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Suicide

Quote
Suicide

(Gameplay  Edit )

Suicide is a serious matter in both real life and on Armageddon, and as such, should not be taken lightly, or as a method of ceasing the play of a character. The people of Zalanthas generally have terribly strong desires for self-preservation, and this is reflected in that there is no easy way to inflict damage upon yourself to commit suicide. However, this does not mean that it is impossible to kill yourself, but you will have to figure out exactly how on your own.

Notes:
If you are mortally wounded (below 0 HPs), you may hasten your character's end by typing 'quit die'. This will end your character's life.
See Also:

quit, rules, storage

Who knew. Learn something new every day.

I don't like that there isn't a way to do it if you want to and that you're forced to codedly twink or do IC'ly unrealistic things. 

Given the above helpfile this wouldn't be world appropriate

I'll continue to wonder why breeds aren't primarily suicidal tbh.

.

Carry on.
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And ShaLeah's evil, by the way.
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this doesn't sound very fun, shal
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You didn't store did you
Because.. I lurve you.

Delirium

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  • Posts: 11775
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2018, 09:19:55 PM »
You can always swallow poison or throw yourself off a long drop. It's possible.

Just, you know, it should be something that's super rare. Even among snowflakes.
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

Seeker

  • Posts: 1388
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2018, 10:20:24 PM »
If we did decide to permit a suicide command, I suppose I'd be fine with it.  Only requirement: 

it could only be used after 5 days of accumulated playtime.
Sitting in your comfort,
You don't believe I'm real,
But you cannot buy protection
from the way that I feel.

Cabooze

  • Posts: 156
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2018, 10:45:34 PM »
With the way things are, at the moment, I think an effective method would be to sit at a bar.

Feco

  • Posts: 1899
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2018, 10:54:50 PM »
Sounds lame.  Just wish up in the most obscure of circumstances where this would make sense.
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Scrumpkin

  • Posts: 143
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2018, 12:25:06 AM »
At least if they suicide, they should be considerate enough to do it in a place where we can find their corpse and newb sid.
« Last Edit: July 05, 2018, 12:27:18 AM by Scrumpkin »

Cind

  • Posts: 1484
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2018, 03:30:37 AM »
I have a good drop of OCD where I suddenly and so strongly want some new concept to play after a bit less than a RL month, that I can think of nothing but sending in a storage request and writing up that new character in a word document. Never fails, always happens. I think that the pull of the new concept is too strong to ignore. It happens all the time, in every game I own.

Once in a while after I've stored, about once every twelve or fifteen characters, I would log in with the pc waiting to be stored, and go hunting (if it is appropriate for the person's background.) This is partly because they have a high chance of dying since I don't know much about hunting, and partly because I wish to learn to hunt without actually wasting a character being a hunter (for some reason, its my least favorite role.)

I got to say I'm not real sure about the idea of making suicide any easier. The only time I ever suicided was when I was just starting to play the game, didn't know the rules about suicide, and I don't even remember how it went down. I've heard about two suicides the whole time I've played--- one was very recent, and that alone should tell you who it was. The reason was very viable, and they did not actually plan to try to kill themselves, they simply did not get out of the way in time. The other suicide was a water witch woman who was so harassed by the common folk in Allanak for so long that she couldn't take it anymore and used her own magicks on herself. These were beautiful storylines, you got to admit. I think these old ways of suiciding are the best--- not some keyboard press from the sky.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Cabooze

  • Posts: 156
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2018, 08:36:44 PM »
It's easy enough to suicide. There's something neat along the outside of Allanak, where if you eat it, you die in a very fun way. It's no secret or 'find out IC' sort of thing, as you've likely seen it before if you've had any sort of wilderness activity. If you're either new or you're a player that's literally never wilderness RP'd, it quite frankly should be something on the helpfiles.

Scrumpkin

  • Posts: 143
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #21 on: July 06, 2018, 11:11:21 AM »
There are so many ways to creatively commit suicide without being a total twink.  These creative ways can do two things in my opinion.  They can improve the game environment as far as RP and scenarios produced for others, and they can get you killed.  My advice to anyone who wants to die, is do something extraordinary with your RP.  One thing that we may forget is that for each character approval done, a little bit of valuable staff time is being taken that could be put elsewhere, such as creating something, NPC animations, etc etc.

Totally against this command.

Dar

  • Posts: 1226
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2018, 05:29:47 PM »
I remember playing a drovian with hopes to join Jaxa Pah. Only to eventually have to leave the tribe, because it was ment to be anti-magick, but the docs didnt display it originally.

I decided to suicide that character, since the main thing I wanted to play was a Jaxa Pah character, not just some random rinthi drov elf.

Ended up trying to burglarize a red robe's mansion. Got caught. Tried to pickpocket the red Robe when he was leading me to the jails. Failed. Got handed over to the Blue Robe for interrogation. Escaped the jail. Only to return to the Red Robe's Mansion 'again' to try and rob it 'again'. Only to have the Red Robe show up 'again'. This time, I had to escape. I was trying to kill off that character, but couldnt act in a way that character wouldnt. So had to escape.

Ended up going toe to toe with a powerful defiler sorcerer. Both put each other to near deaths and escaped at the same time.

Fought a mul in melee and somehow won.

I swear. That guy survived longer then two thirds of my characters, with me actively trying to kill the fucker.

Suicide is fun in Armageddon.

Armageddon Lover

  • Posts: 110
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2018, 07:52:39 PM »
Totally against this command.

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Suicide

Quote
Suicide

(Gameplay  Edit )

Suicide is a serious matter in both real life and on Armageddon, and as such, should not be taken lightly, or as a method of ceasing the play of a character. The people of Zalanthas generally have terribly strong desires for self-preservation, and this is reflected in that there is no easy way to inflict damage upon yourself to commit suicide. However, this does not mean that it is impossible to kill yourself, but you will have to figure out exactly how on your own.

Notes:
If you are mortally wounded (below 0 HPs), you may hasten your character's end by typing 'quit die'. This will end your character's life.
See Also:

quit, rules, storage

Who knew. Learn something new every day.

I don't like that there isn't a way to do it if you want to and that you're forced to codedly twink or do IC'ly unrealistic things. 

Given the above helpfile this wouldn't be world appropriate
I'll continue to wonder why breeds aren't primarily suicidal tbh.

.
Carry on.

Let dying threads die!

Suicide is fun against the docs in Armageddon.

FTFY - I didn't know about help suicide. For real.
You feel euphoric, and a numbness creeps across your body.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 473
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2018, 08:14:02 PM »
I don't think it's strictly always 100% against the docs. One of my favorite animations ever was an NPC committing suicide, and I have also had a PC commit suicide with full staff support. It's simply not something to take lightly, which I fear it would be if there was a command for it. I think there would end up being a little too much suicide-related melodrama if it was easier than it is now.

The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 867
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #25 on: July 09, 2018, 11:27:15 AM »
People in Zalanthas want to live - they have an ingrained desire to survive at all costs. Suicide would be extremely rare, imo.

The idea of having time to say "goodbye" seems pretty silly, too. The world is just too harsh for people to care. If you kill yourself that means more water and other resources for them, plus they get to sell all of your stuff for their next meal. Getting genuinely close to someone would be a pretty rare occurrence. Being associates to benefit from one another is much more likely than actually being close friends.

When someone dies, they are stripped of anything valuable and left for the bugs to eat. People don't have big funerals or memorial services because those things just don't fit in with the world setting. I think I am getting a bit off topic and rambling now but I think that some people have the wrong idea about how harsh the world is lately. Maybe a staff member can correct me if I am wrong here.

Anyway...please don't add a suicide command. Suicide would be more rare than winning the lotto. I think that just having it exist would add to the misunderstanding that people in Zalanthas consider it as an option.
"People survive by climbing over anyone who gets in their way, by cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise taking advantage of others."
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puella

  • Posts: 505
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #26 on: July 09, 2018, 11:38:49 AM »
When someone dies, they are stripped of anything valuable and left for the bugs to eat. People don't have big funerals or memorial services because those things just don't fit in with the world setting. I think I am getting a bit off topic and rambling now but I think that some people have the wrong idea about how harsh the world is lately. Maybe a staff member can correct me if I am wrong here.

This is quite false.  There are at least three playable tribes that have "big funerals" and "memorial" services.  In Allanak, what you say might be more true, but I'd still advise sticking to the docs rather than speculating too wildly about the inhuman-ness of Zalanthans.  (Of course, Zalanthans form close relationships!  They live in a harsh world, but aren't monsters.)

From >help suicide:

Quote
Suicide is a serious matter in both real life and on Armageddon, and as such, should not be taken lightly, or as a method of ceasing the play of a character. The people of Zalanthas generally have terribly strong desires for self-preservation, and this is reflected in that there is no easy way to inflict damage upon yourself to commit suicide. However, this does not mean that it is impossible to kill yourself, but you will have to figure out exactly how on your own.


The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 867
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #27 on: July 09, 2018, 12:09:12 PM »
I was speaking in a generalization based on the largest population and what is "standard", not the scattered cultures of small groups of close-knit people. There are tribals that have customs dealing with death - I even wrote the documents for one of them so yes, I am aware. Tribals make up a very small niche and have varying beliefs. If the specific documentation pertaining to their view of death isn't publicly available, it isn't meant to be discussed with the general public.

I didn't believe that it was needed to clarify that I was speaking about most non-tribal cultures - please pardon my assumption.

Tribal life is considerably different and, of course, you should play by the appropriate documentation. My comments were referring to the vast majority of the population.

As far as the monster comment goes we must remember that people do not know where their next drink of water or food comes from. Many live in crowded dorms or hovels, or just on the street. Hardship on Zalanthas isn't about not being able to pay your cell phone bill or make a car payment, it isn't even about running out of your food stamps or your car breaking down.

It is a harsh planet where only the fittest survive, and competition over extremely scarce resources causes constant strife, struggle, and bloodshed. We aren't talking about western civilization. Life in Yemen would be more comfortable and safer than life in Allanak for MOST citizens.

Of course you have a drastic swing if you are lucky enough to get employment by one of the Merchant or Noble Houses - but that is a very tiny percentage of people.
"People survive by climbing over anyone who gets in their way, by cheating, stealing, killing, swindling, or otherwise taking advantage of others."
-Ginka

"Don't do this. I can't believe I have to write this post."
-Rathustra

Brytta Léofa

  • Posts: 446
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #28 on: July 09, 2018, 12:53:42 PM »
It is a harsh planet where only the fittest survive, and competition over extremely scarce resources causes constant strife, struggle, and bloodshed. We aren't talking about western civilization. Life in Yemen would be more comfortable and safer than life in Allanak for MOST citizens.

Okay, so, I don't know anything about life in Yemen. But I would guess that an accurate description of life in Yemen would give us a richer guide for roleplaying than what most of us can imagine based on (pardon the caricature; I don't hate you) "guys it's super harsh."

"It's super harsh" is true. But it's easy to see this as a factor that only relieves our characters of social obligations and deadens their emotions. I'm not sure those are typical of how we see humans reacting in extreme poverty on Earth. How humans really act in real circumstances is going to be a rich starting point for fruitful roleplay - because humans are real and super interesting.
everything louder than everything else

ghanima

  • Posts: 78
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2018, 12:26:44 PM »
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Suicide

Quote
Suicide

(Gameplay  Edit )

Suicide is a serious matter in both real life and on Armageddon, and as such, should not be taken lightly, or as a method of ceasing the play of a character. The people of Zalanthas generally have terribly strong desires for self-preservation, and this is reflected in that there is no easy way to inflict damage upon yourself to commit suicide. However, this does not mean that it is impossible to kill yourself, but you will have to figure out exactly how on your own.

Notes:
If you are mortally wounded (below 0 HPs), you may hasten your character's end by typing 'quit die'. This will end your character's life.
See Also:

quit, rules, storage
I'll continue to wonder why breeds aren't primarily suicidal tbh.

Being born among the down trodden doesn't make you suicidal. Take a stroll through the streets of Dakha, Bangladesh and tell me why they aren't committing suicide. Or in any number of shanty towns throughout India. You think you have it bad because of your parentage? Please.

Suicide is, by and large, a first world phenomenon. It's actually the privileged in a society who are (seemingly paradoxically) the more likely among a population to commit suicide. Yes, it would and should be exceedingly rare for a commoner to wilfully end their own life.

Riev

  • Posts: 5149
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2018, 01:32:33 PM »
There's also the fact that this is a game, to consider. I'm not saying "Must have suicide, is just game", but for someone who isn't feeling their character, the waiting period on a storage may decrease their desire to play that new role they have. Going out to play Kiss the Mekillot isn't so easy these days, but a lot of people just wander off into the sea because its immediate gratification.

At least with a suicide command, their gear maybe doesn't stay in the game for people to get fat off of, and it can be tracked and the situation approached if someone is using it too often.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Bebop

  • Posts: 3568
Re: Suicide Command
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2018, 03:37:36 PM »
There's also the fact that this is a game, to consider. I'm not saying "Must have suicide, is just game", but for someone who isn't feeling their character, the waiting period on a storage may decrease their desire to play that new role they have. Going out to play Kiss the Mekillot isn't so easy these days, but a lot of people just wander off into the sea because its immediate gratification.

At least with a suicide command, their gear maybe doesn't stay in the game for people to get fat off of, and it can be tracked and the situation approached if someone is using it too often.

It would also allow staff to more easily monitor who's using and abusing it.

I don't know about a command though.  I suppose if used sparingly.  I've had a character who killed herself by swallowing the same poison she used to commit mass murder.

Death uuuuum finds a way.