General > Guild Testing Secret Group!

Custom Crafting

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sleepyhead:
This didn't seem to exactly fit with the existing topics, but I think it's an important discussion to have. Or at least, it's important to me. I personally always end up dying or storing before I can CC something, but it's still often part of my greater vision for a crafter character. Writing up and getting excited about future concepts is one of my favorite things to do, and this definitely affects some ideas that I had. So I'm going to list the basic facts plus some possible pros and cons. Note that some of these pros and cons are more opinions or predictions than others, and everything's up for debate.

THE FACTS:

- None of the new guilds will inherently receive the ability to custom craft. That includes Heavy Mercantile.

- There will be a new 0-karma subguild (we'll call it custom crafter) added that includes only one skill, toolmaking, to an unknown level. It will also unlock the ability to custom craft any of your main guild's crafting skills up to the level that you have in that skill. So someone with journeyman stonecarving and the subguild will be able to submit new stonecarving crafts up to the journeyman level.

- In addition to the 0-karma custom crafter subguild, there will also continue to be extended (1-karma) subguilds like master potter, master tailor, etc., that grant the ability to custom craft in that one skill.

- There is discussion about letting GMH crafters submit custom crafts just by virtue of being GMH crafters. This would be the only non-subguild-reliant way to custom craft.

- Brokkr has said he has not considered whether or not people will be able to special app the ability to custom-craft along with a non-custom-crafting subguild.

POSSIBLE PROS:

- Since light and heavy mercantile both achieve master level in various crafts, tying it to subguild instead will limit the number of custom crafts submitted, thus preventing staff from being overwhelmed by custom craft requests.

- The custom crafter subguild will allow people with only middling crafting skills to make new custom crafts, possibly encouraging people to custom craft less fancy and pristine items.

- The limitation ensures that people don't try to "have their cake and eat it too." No one can be great at everything, and if you want the ability to produce your own designs, you're going to have to give up something.

- According to Brokkr, custom crafting isn't immensely popular to begin with. Many merchants never submit a custom craft. All this change will do is limit custom crafting to the people who care about it enough to dedicate their subguild to it. Most people will not be affected, even if they think they will be.

- Brokkr has also said that one of the benefits of this change will be to make subguild choice matter.

- You won't have to master your craft skills to be able to custom craft them.

POSSIBLE CONS:

- There are players whose main interest in the game is the ability to produce custom crafts, and it may not be fun to severely limit their choice of subguild.

- Mercantile guilds, particularly heavy mercantile, may look less attractive to some when custom crafting is not inherently part of their skillset.

- No Elementalists or sorcerers will be able to custom craft unless they join a GMH (to do GMH-related crafts), which means there are unlikely to be any ritual magick-related RP props added to the game from now on. No gemmed or tribal magickers will be able to custom craft whatsoever.

- Despite the versatility and anti-guild-sniffing power of the well-rounded new guilds, if you see someone produce even one non-GMH custom craft, you instantly know for a fact that they are not any kind of magicker.

- One of the stated intentions of the new system is to encourage more mid-level, less "fancy" crafts. However, only the 'mixed' guilds seem to get lower-capped crafts, and even they reach advanced, which can create some pretty fancy items. I have not found a main guild that has any journeyman crafting skills.

- In that same vein, it may not be very attractive for a 'mixed' guild to sacrifice their subguild to become a custom crafter. If custom crafting is the player's focus for the character to the point that they are willing to give up their subguild for it, I expect they may want to pick light or heavy mercantile, which get far more crafting skills and at a higher level.

- Player-created MMHs, which are already difficult to get off the ground, may become more difficult, since custom crafting is required to progress through the stages, and custom crafters may become harder to find.

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Thoughts? I am sure you can tell where I stand on the issue, but if you guys come up with more pros I'll certainly add them to the list. I don't think the idea is inherently bad at all, but my personal opinion is that it needs a bit of tweaking before it really solves all the problems it's intended to solve, and so that it doesn't create several new problems. I personally wouldn't mind it if heavy mercantile could inherently custom craft, and the rest have to pick the subguild.

WithSprinkles:
(glances over the OP's list)

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. In more detail than I was going to go into.

Folks will probably disagree with me on this, but if the creation aspects of a text game are removed, stripped down, or made unappealing, you begin to drift closer to being a Hack and Slash. Text games don't have graphics, so these communities enjoy making things and prodding at the game world. In a Mud, this is strictly controlled, as opposed to a Mush where it can get a little crazy.

Maybe I am not quite seeing the vision of what staff wants to do here, but I was very excited that we were going from one mercantile class to three. All the others were combatants in some way. And HEY! If I was feeling adventurous, I was looking forward to being able to move a category over on the new chart and still having a little bit of crafting ability to play with while being a bit more buff. All of this appealed to my playstyle. Why would this subclass thing even be considered? Was it that much of a problem?

Delirium:
As someone who loves submitting custom crafts to fill gaps or push plots, I naturally agree with OP. If the custom craft approval and creation system is burdensome, I suggest finding ways to code and streamline the system rather than discourage players by gating it with subguilds.

sleepyhead:
Yeah, I think some of the arguments in favor of the change have been oversimplifying things by implying that if we were to have 3 guilds that can CC, we would end up with 3 times the number of people playing those guilds than we had when we were limited to merchant. I seriously doubt that.

EDIT: I renamed the thread because when it got shortened, it looked just like the main guild class discussion thread, and I wanted to differentiate them.

Lizzie:
Disclaimer: I play merchants fairly often, and I have only *fully* branched one of them. I'm not especially fond of "practicing" things just so you can branch something else.

What I would've loved to see is something more like this:

You pick the master-merchant main class.

You select a focus for your crafts: clothing/armor, stone/jewelry, weapons/tools, or other.

All the related craft skills that come with your selected focus will master, and be master-craftable.
All the OTHER craft skills will only get to the highest "point" of advanced.


I never really understood why someone who is an expert at making jewelry, would also be an expert at making clothes, and weapons, and tents, and armor.

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