Author Topic: Public Discussion of New Classes  (Read 3357 times)

Brokkr

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Public Discussion of New Classes
« on: June 20, 2018, 05:37:24 PM »
This thread is meant for discussion of the new classes.

Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #1 on: June 20, 2018, 06:01:38 PM »
I posted in the Discord, but got no opinions, so I'd like to ask here.

Question: What applications could Infiltrator have that other revealed classes couldn't do better?

Not jabbing. Just genuinely curious so I can put in my head what they're "for".
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valeria

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #2 on: June 20, 2018, 06:32:13 PM »
I appreciate the opening of this forum for the purposes of transparency.  I'm sure I'll have some thoughts, maybe even some Feelings, that I'll want to post later after I've read all the things.

Veselka

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #3 on: June 20, 2018, 06:36:01 PM »
This is tight.

That is all.
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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2018, 06:38:50 PM »
Additionally, my personal opinions:

Adventurer's two weaponry competencies should be Piercing and Chopping, not Piercing and Bludgeoning. They're a master lumberjack but can't chop people?

Infiltrator feels weak. Maybe it's broadly spread, but something seems off.

Scout should get master scan at the very least. They're called scouts. Let them scout. How can someone called a "scout" not be able to pick out snakes in the sands, given time? Stalkers should NOT be the only ones with master scan.

I don't mind that Raiders don't get master scan. They're fighters. But I think they should get journeyman scan, not advanced - and, perhaps, they should also get journeyman bandage, or apprentice. You don't get into dozens of fights without knowing how to slap some cloth on yourself from time to time.

Dune Trader says "Stealth specialised for wilderness environments" but has neither sneak nor hide. Is this intentional? Brokkr has confirmed this /is/ intentional. "
If you pick up sneak/hide via subguild, even if it is a city flavor, you will be able to use it in the wilderness as well."

Raiders being a prime wilderness class but getting neither food foraging nor "Fair recovery from exertion" is a bit odd. I guess they're more of a one-hit-wonder kind of fighter, while scouts can fight for longer, but not necessarily stronger?

Maybe soldiers and craftspeople should get city-hide flags but no city-hide skills etc. They'd make good guards and aides with a subguild to compensate, for example.

Soldiers at least should 100% get a city-hunt flag but no city-hunt skill, so they can compensate. Maybe craftspeople get the city-sneak flag but soldiers get city-hunt.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 07:41:16 PM by MatisseOrOtherwise »
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Brokkr

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #5 on: June 20, 2018, 06:52:49 PM »
I think maybe folks are taking the name literally, when it is just a name for a certain set of skills.

mansa

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #6 on: June 20, 2018, 08:01:37 PM »
I think maybe folks are taking the name literally, when it is just a name for a certain set of skills.

Am I my name, or by the actions I do?


I think the best way to counteract that is to have more examples of what you can do with a skillset in the guild descriptions.   I'll try and give more examples when I think of some, but all I got right now is "thief-catcher'
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hyzhenhok

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #7 on: June 20, 2018, 08:05:21 PM »
I'm just a bit confused be the overall philosophy here.

Miscreant is literally a combination of Burglar and Pickpocket, gets all of the important skills to master and doesn't even have to branch any of them. Enforcer and Raider appear to be Warrior + extended subguild in a single guild at the expense of a few combat maneuvers.

Everything else seems a bit weak by comparison (and more like what I expected). I guess I undervalue the various sprinklings of crafting skills.

And I agree that it seems perception skills are a little less common than they should be, since it seems characters who previously would have been rolled as Ranger will be divided between Raider, Stalker and Scout, and only one of those gets the Ranger's perception suite.

Brokkr

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #8 on: June 20, 2018, 08:11:55 PM »
Characters are good at their competency.  They are less good at other things.

If you want master sneak/scan, you will give up some combat ability and some crafting ability.  If you want to be the best at combat, you will give up survival skills, either totally or skill level.

If you want to have great combat and great perception skills...it will take two of you.

perfecto

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #9 on: June 20, 2018, 08:21:12 PM »
I noticed that some of the new crafty classes branch  (leatherworking - armor repair - armor making) and others are branching (armor making - armor repair)  Is that intentional? or an oversight?  Just seems that now some classes will get both skills very easily where others may never get both.
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perfecto

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #10 on: June 20, 2018, 08:55:56 PM »
I also had an interesting idea after reading over the sekrit feedback thread about custom crafting.

What if... Instead of having a 0 karma subclass selection to be able to custom craft, and limiting everyones skill selections...

Everyone from every class and walk of life had the ability to custom craft (up to the level of their crafting skill) but to submit one of these crafts cost you 1 CGP? 

That way everyone could make things suitable to their characters as they live their lives, threshing out their stories.  At the same time it would keep your workload down as Imms because we'd all have to wait for the CGP to regenerate before we could do it again.  Which if memory serves takes a good while?

Thoughts?
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mansa

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #11 on: June 20, 2018, 09:06:56 PM »
...

Thoughts?

Bring it up in a different thread regarding custom crafts?
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Brokkr

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2018, 09:57:54 PM »
They branch that way intentionally.  Armor Repair is only before Armor making in one instance, in order to slow down acquisition of armor making but make it possible.  This was done because the class is also the only one that gets skinning along with armor making, which is a powerful coin generating combination.

As for your idea, I don't think 0 karma folks would like it much.

mansa

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2018, 10:03:37 PM »
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Raider
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Raider%20Branching


Branching states "Parry to Blind Fighting" but the main Raider helpfile doesn't mention Blind Fighting

http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Infiltrator
http://www.armageddon.org/help/view/Fighter%20Branching

Branching has "Listen to Watch" but the main Infiltrator helpfile had it starting with Watch
It also doesn't mention 'Threaten' as a skill to branch in the helpfile - I was on the wrong page.  I was on fighter.
« Last Edit: June 20, 2018, 10:53:24 PM by mansa »
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mansa

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2018, 10:34:41 PM »
Labourer:

Fletchery to Sword Making?
Not
Knife Making to Sword Making?

Other classes have Knife Making to Sword Making
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BadSkeelz

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2018, 12:03:45 AM »
I'm glad the branching paths are clearly outlined. I would not have guessed at some of these at all. (Not that I understood old branching paths very well either. But still, good change!)
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Armaddict

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2018, 02:34:57 AM »
Miscreant:
Lower piercing skill or remove it.  Remove backstab.
Remove poisoning.
Lower climb skill (advanced).
Lower pick skill (advanced).

Infiltrator should probably be the main honcho for the actual infiltration/lethality.
Master stealth instead of Advanced (Really? What was this idea?)
Master climb
Lose chopping at least, probably both chopping and slashing
Master poisoning, low advanced/high journeyman brew
Lose value
Lose peek because they don't even have steal anyway
Let them keep pick at advanced off of branching, but maybe take away pick making (iffy on this one)


« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 10:34:44 AM by Armaddict »
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Krath

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2018, 02:44:55 AM »
So, as I read over the NEW guild list something comes to mind, there are really only Five choices:

Enforcer (Self explanatory) , Raider (Self explanatory), Miscreant (Self explanatory), Scout (legacy ranger),  and Heavy Crafting.

Why would you bother with the others?
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X-D

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2018, 02:54:40 AM »
I think there are only four.

Raider(warrior/outdoorsman) Enforcer (warrior/slipknife) So that is 1 with two different subs.
Scout (legacy ranger) Or close enough.
Miscreant (burgler/pickpocket/assassin) And looks rather over powered. Not that I mind that if every other class balances the same way...which they do not seem to. So...nah.
And heavy crafting.

To be honest, the ONLY way I see the current lineup working is if you plan on getting rid of subclasses.
That is all most of them look like to me anyway...either a current main guild and advanced sub or two advanced subs together.

With the current list, my prediction is, inside of 6 months you will not see a majority of them played and in fact 95% will be one of the five classes I listed.
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Insigne

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2018, 03:30:16 AM »
Scout should get master scan at the very least. They're called scouts. Let them scout. How can someone called a "scout" not be able to pick out snakes in the sands, given time? Stalkers should NOT be the only ones with master scan.
I think the problem lies in their names. Looking at the chart that was posted, I'm a little confused why Scout is a light combat class. Why is Stalker mixed? The vibe I get when I see Stalker is more of a combat/desert assassin role while Scout reads as more of a utility-based class.

With the current list, my prediction is, inside of 6 months you will not see a majority of them played and in fact 95% will be one of the five classes I listed.
Personally, I like the addition of balanced classes with broader skillsets. I think they're well-suited to certain concepts. But, Brokkr, is there any chance we could see the numbers of apps for the new classes?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2018, 03:44:25 AM by Insigne »

Vox

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #20 on: June 21, 2018, 03:49:34 AM »
Hi!

Long time assassin player, first time New Classes poster.

Miscreant looks like the super rogue class, including all burlgar/pickpocket but weakened assassin skills.
1. Lose backstab and sap
2. Lose hunt
(now you have a super rogue who can steal and pick locks and stuff but can't brutally kill someone still necessitating players work together)

Enforcer has strong assassin/warrior combat skills but weak rogue/stealth skills and no scan??
1. Please lose guarding/rescue, slashing and chopping(soldier, raider etc can have all those)
2. Please make sneak and hide as high as miscreant
3. Add master poison
4. Add advanced city hunt
5. Add master city scan and listen
(Now you have a brutal killer but who can't make their own picks and pick locks still necessitating players work together)

Infiltrator just seems the baby of Miscreant and Enforcer.. if you adjust those two you can just drop infiltrator all together.

Just my quick two cents for what they're worth!

Armaddict

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #21 on: June 21, 2018, 10:44:10 AM »
On further thought:

Any chance we could get some comparison between new 'master' levels and old 'master' levels?

i.e. Does infiltrator stealth capped at (advanced) roughly equal current assassin sneak and hide?
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Nao

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2018, 10:49:34 AM »
Brokkr said on another thread that light combat weapon skills are the same as current master/warrior weapon skills. Nothing about the other skill levels, though.
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Krath

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #23 on: June 21, 2018, 11:14:01 AM »
Question for clarification some of the classes do not have the ride skill does that mean they do not have the ride skill or was it an oversight?
But it's cool, I can rap my skills, too
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Brytta Léofa

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Re: Public Discussion of New Classes
« Reply #24 on: June 21, 2018, 12:25:36 PM »
Question for clarification some of the classes do not have the ride skill does that mean they do not have the ride skill or was it an oversight?

Looks like it's a whole thing: https://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,53544.0.html
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