Author Topic: Stop Asking for Drovians  (Read 1882 times)

Refugee

  • Posts: 1727
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #50 on: June 01, 2018, 10:48:32 PM »
Karma is nice to have, it makes you feel good, like a pat on the back.  When I didn't have any, I worried about it.  I get it.

Now that I've got karma,  I've not used it for anything that I can remember.  It just sits there making me feel appreciated.  Which is nice.

But my regular guy PCs sure have ended up in lots of crazy fun stuff.  It's surprising the places they end up!  I suggest not worrying about karma and just have fun.  Karma will come.  But you certainly don't need it for having a blast.




Grapes

  • Posts: 416
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #51 on: June 02, 2018, 02:46:46 AM »
Stoicreader, don't let the negativity on those forums influence you too heavily, also, I'm not digging the karma barrier myself, or the adjustments to spec apps. I'm not going to give a detailed breakdown but some of what you see there is utterly full of shit... some of it isn't, not going into all that. I will, however, say one thing, most, most of the bitching that has gone on there has been dealt with here over time.

Not all, but show me a perfect community and I'll show you a blockbuster horror movie script.

ETA: Also, really looking forward to when this main guild change is a thing.

ETAA: The real problem is the playerbase trying to double down on the Machiavellian aspect when they don't even understand Machiavelli in the first place. Leads to some real wtf IC moments. That's a human problem, one you can see at your local Wendy's, thank you, please drive through.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 03:22:28 AM by Grapes »
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Akaramu

  • Posts: 6708
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #52 on: June 02, 2018, 04:00:40 AM »
There's no expectation not to have to log off randomly if you play a sponsored role, as long as you play regularly. We need off-peak leaders too. Maybe try not being so querulous.

The sad truth is that off-peak leaders will encounter various issues that on-peak leaders do not. The same is true for off-peak players in general. I've tried being an offpeak leader and no thanks, never again.

I can 100% relate to stoicreader's complaints. Karma reviews have been closed for what feels like forever. Why is this taking so long?

Grapes

  • Posts: 416
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #53 on: June 02, 2018, 04:05:54 AM »
Akaramu's, well, right. Try playing off-peak in a GMH, for one, the discussion of which led me to sig the quote below. It's unfair to off-peakers that people who play at peak times are so much more encouraged than off-peak. Where's Party-guy when you need him? I hear they exploded a confused raptor or something, although, that could have been a bunch of humor.
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #54 on: June 02, 2018, 09:34:48 AM »
There's no expectation not to have to log off randomly if you play a sponsored role, as long as you play regularly. We need off-peak leaders too. Maybe try not being so querulous.

The sad truth is that off-peak leaders will encounter various issues that on-peak leaders do not. The same is true for off-peak players in general. I've tried being an offpeak leader and no thanks, never again.

I can 100% relate to stoicreader's complaints. Karma reviews have been closed for what feels like forever. Why is this taking so long?

I've had one foot out the door for some time. The staff it's respectful, and courteous, and extremely polite to me. I love the professionalism I receive with my crap character reports. I love the game too, but at the same time I feel like it's time to play another.

The other mud I started playing (instead of Armageddon), already offered me to be a builder and opened up all the classes. The philosophy is, if I abuse it, they just take it away. No. Biggie. But they also found out who I was OOC and wanted to use my name. (I'm a published fantasy writer) Grain of salt taken.

I can get a job being a bus driver... And in less time than it takes me to get staff trust with karma, the lives of every individual on that bus will be in my hands.

Drov, nope. HG, highly unlikely. Apothecary, maybe when my baby is in the 4th grade, but probably not.
Meh

Akariel

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 565
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #55 on: June 02, 2018, 11:10:36 AM »
A great way to get staff attention, which unless you're actively doing things against the lore or abusing the code, is a great way to earn karma without requesting a review:

-Wish up whenever you leave the gates. "Wish all Hey, going out hunting gortok with Amos and Talia. Any animations would be appreciated!"
--We have staff on almost all the time, and while storytellers may not want to jump on something specific to a clan they don't handle, wilderness animations are normally free game. Bringing people out to do things is always a plus, but moreso if you spend time emoting and living in the world. (Rather than just spam kill 20 gortok, spam skin them, mount, find the next 20.)

-Send in reports about what you're planning, what you're going to do to see those plans through, and then follow them through.
--One of the main things I see in reports is people planning things and then just... Never doing them? Or in some extreme cases, planning things, never working on it IC, and then asking a few months later to see the result of the thing they talked about once months prior. Reporting, then taking action to do a thing is a good way to get karma.

-Involve other people.
--You need to go get some coin to buy a fancy new dagger? Hire a buddy to guard you while you go salting. You need to get a sekrit message to Amos? Hire someone to pass that message along. You want to get fancy armor? Ask people who's the best armorcrafter they know. The more people you involve, the more likely we are to hear about what you're doing.

-Stick to the docs.
--Elves are thieves - make a point of it whenever you see someone getting too chummy with them. Half giants are gigantic oafs who could kill you if they forget their name, remind them of their place in society. Dwarves are weird piss-drinking things that can't ever think outside the box, call them on it. Muls aren't people, why are we talking about them? Ect ect. Strong connections with the documentation tends to get kudos, and kudos tend to tell us who is doing things right - which leads to karma.

None of the above requires being in a leadership role. In fact, I'd be willing to bet that a majority of the karma given out over the last year or two has been to non-leadership roles.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 538
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #56 on: June 02, 2018, 11:26:19 AM »
The whole point (or at least a big part of the point) of shrinking the karma scale was to make it seem less daunting to new players. New players looked at the old 8-point scale and it seemed to them like they'd have to play 15 years to get anywhere close to max karma. My understanding is that the 3-point scale was to dismantle what Nergal called (and I might be slightly paraphrasing here) the "aristocracy of old players" and give newer players a shot.

I know that you guys have your plans as far as when you're going to open up karma reviews, and I respect that. But I am starting to find it really concerning that new players keep bringing up the lack of karma reviews as disheartening and discouraging. I know, karma isn't as big a deal as people make it out to be, and people can spec app, but whether or not it's justified doesn't change the fact that new players feel slighted, and some of them are walking out or thinking about doing so. Whether they're putting too much emphasis on karma or not, I don't feel comfortable with that.

It seems that this "aristocracy of old players" that was supposed to be torn down is starting to feel more real than ever to new Armers. We established players are running around casually bandying about our karma to play an extended subguild here, a magicker there, no big deal, while the new blood has no idea when they will even be allowed to so much as ask for their first karma point. And they can't even think about their second for a long time after that unspecified point. It just seems...really unfair to the newbies we're trying to retain.

So, I'd like to suggest that maybe we could open up karma reviews JUST for 0 karma players. In addition to helping fight the discouragement I talked about, it'd help stem the the unbearable tide of karma reviews that will no doubt come in once they're fully opened. I know it hasn't been you guys' plan, but if it helps retain just a few disappointed new players, I'm absolutely all for it. What do you think?

Maybe I should make my own thread about this.

CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1103
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #57 on: June 02, 2018, 11:37:19 AM »
I know that you guys have your plans as far as when you're going to open up karma reviews, and I respect that. But I am starting to find it really concerning that new players keep bringing up the lack of karma reviews as disheartening and discouraging.

I find it annoying.  This is a player who feels slighted by their inability to play a guild that hasn't even existed since they started posting on the GDB.  Something doesn't add up.
The neat, clean-shaven man sends you a telepathic message:
     "I tried hairy...Im sorry"

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 538
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #58 on: June 02, 2018, 11:41:53 AM »
It adds up just fine to me. Halflings were removed before I started playing, but I still feel sad that I'll never get to try one.

And it's really not about any one particular newbie. It's a trend I've noticed that new players feel discouraged about the lack of karma reviews.

Strongheart

  • Posts: 205
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #59 on: June 02, 2018, 11:50:43 AM »
Yeah, and I went to the 'Ask the Staff' thread a long time ago about wanting mantis back. Perfectly newbish then, still somewhat of a newb now.
Die gedanken sind frei.

Strongheart

  • Posts: 205
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #60 on: June 02, 2018, 11:57:26 AM »
I find it annoying.  This is a player who feels slighted by their inability to play a guild that hasn't even existed since they started posting on the GDB.  Something doesn't add up.

So, why do you feel that way? This is more than likely just a new player who feels a bit discouraged is all. I mean... you can't really blame them, these races and classes are still on the main website, displayed in such a way that to a newbie it seems like they are still available.
Die gedanken sind frei.

TheWanderer

  • Posts: 1496
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #61 on: June 02, 2018, 12:45:00 PM »
because itís a shadowboard plot to spread dissent and despair amongst the playerbase, obviously. how could a new player possibly have criticisms about the biggest time sink in the entire world?! or lament the fact that well-documented pieces of the game are unavailable and others wonít be available to them for years to come? thatís absurd!

Címon. Donít trivialize valid concerns and bury your head in the sand by constantly searching for an ulterior motive.

« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 12:51:53 PM by TheWanderer »
Quote
Whatever happens, happens.

CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1103
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #62 on: June 02, 2018, 12:54:15 PM »
Sorry, you guys are right.  That was uncool of me :)
The neat, clean-shaven man sends you a telepathic message:
     "I tried hairy...Im sorry"

MarshallDFX

  • Posts: 1531
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #63 on: June 02, 2018, 01:02:46 PM »
Just to be a rough guide, in 2009 I played ~65 days on a char in a mediocre but consistent fashion and got to what today would be 2 karma.

Was declined to bring them back as a gladiator a year later but that's no worries, staff awareness of what characters were about seemed waaay less back then.

If it's harder than that now, it's hilarious nonsense and revoke my karma.  Maybe not a terrible idea anyways :)
« Last Edit: June 02, 2018, 01:06:37 PM by MarshallDFX »