Author Topic: Stop Asking for Drovians  (Read 1884 times)

Vox

  • Posts: 416
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2018, 09:22:16 PM »
What I find truly sad about those that complain about Drovians and ‘that spell’ in particular, is that they never bothered to investigate IC means of nonmagickal protection from it. There are significant drawbacks to the spell and the levels of vulnerablity it presented for both the caster and the ‘thing being cast’.. there are several significant ways to utterly counter that spell with very little effort.

If people actually made plots out of their fears and IC’ly studied these things instead of OOC’ly ranting about them there’d be less removed and more added to the game as a general rule. :P
« Last Edit: May 29, 2018, 09:33:30 PM by Vox »

TheWanderer

  • Posts: 1496
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2018, 10:04:05 PM »
Wow. There's a strong tendency to perceive incendiary tones on the GDB. 

My thoughts on the title were akin to something like "Stop Spreading Misinformation: Vaccines" and then you delve into the bullet points. In future, I'll go with something along the lines of "Why You Should Rethink Drovians" in the hopes that fewer people take issue. 

I have a belief that there are a selection of players that would prefer Drovians back in their initial form, not a reworked class sacrificing the magickal spy identity they'd taken on for two decades - again, not particularly keen on magickal spies that aren't actively hunted. This is a post for discussion about a subject people have sporadically bumped into various conversations over the years, and is still obviously on a host of minds. Plus the GDB is -so- boring lately.

Is there an expectation that I literally sort through every post since the introduction of magick subguilds mentioning Drovians? GDB -and- Discord? Catalog the collection and list them in a lengthy display to provide irrevocable proof that people have asked for them before?

Anyway. As previously stated, Drovians assisted in making something that should have been a rare encounter an all too common one. Absurdly.

Bans necker but "gypsy" is common permitted IC and OOC parlance.

Oh. That'd be an interesting thread. You should make that.

Without the people who try to accomplish things, y'all wouldn't have anything to relentlessly destroy.

This is a good quote. Signature worthy, even.

I don't think that anything that has been removed from the game will ever return so no worries there. Do we have any examples of something that has been removed from the game before and returned? Houses don't really count because they are mostly cycled around.

True. It's got about a .1% chance of happening, but it's possible.
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Whatever happens, happens.

flurry

  • Posts: 3336
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2018, 10:05:59 PM »
While I was sad to see the Drovian option go, I understand staff made the decision to improve the game. I respect that. I don't expect to see pc Drovians back the way they were, although I'm happy I got to play a couple.

I do want to say a couple things in defense of Drovians and players of Drovians.

First, Drovians seem to have had a strange evolution of public opinion. When I first played one about ten years ago, the guild was just as powerful as it has been all along, but the general opinion seemed to be that it was a niche option, and the weakest choice among the elementalists. Since that time, the karma requirement dropped, making the option more accessible. Then, eventually, it seemed that people decided that the guild was the bane of plots. The guild didn't change significantly over that decade, but people's perception of it did.

Seeing some of the discussion of Drovians on the GDB over the past couple years has been frustrating. Especially comments suggesting that people who played those roles did so with the intention of ruining plots. I suppose there are griefers in every guild. Speaking only for myself, I never set out to try to ruin any plots, and I think I did more good than harm in that regard.

The whole plot-ruining concern always struck me as a little exaggerated, although I don't doubt that some people had legitimate complaints about some Drovians. It's just that people talked about Drovains as if they were the only thing standing between Armageddon and an abundant cornucopia of plots. (How did that turn out, anyway? I actually don't know the answer.)

What I find truly sad about those that complain about Drovians and ‘that spell’ in particular, is that they never bothered to investigate IC means of nonmagickal protection from it. There are significant drawbacks to the spell and the levels of vulnerablity it presented for both the caster and the ‘thing being cast’.. there are several significant ways to utterly counter that spell with very little effort.

If people actually made plots out of their fears and IC’ly studied these things instead of OOC’ly ranting about them there’d be less removed and more added to the game as a general rule. :P

A thousand times this. There were built-in limitations, mundane defenses, and risks even with "that spell." Maybe those things should have been dialed up a bit, but they were there.
Be the change you want to see in Zalanthas.

lostinspace

  • Posts: 590
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #28 on: May 29, 2018, 11:09:25 PM »
If Tuluk ever reopens, there will be a place psions are more accepted, and drovians are killed on sight. I hope both come back eventually.
3/21/16 Never Forget

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #29 on: May 29, 2018, 11:20:43 PM »
I played a mud recently with magic. It was so satisfying.
Meh

Malken

  • Posts: 9088
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2018, 05:51:18 AM »
What I find truly sad about those that complain about Drovians and ‘that spell’ in particular, is that they never bothered to investigate IC means of nonmagickal protection from it.

You mean like sitting at tables?  ::)  ;D
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

tapas

  • Posts: 273
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2018, 06:20:35 AM »
What I find truly sad about those that complain about Drovians and ‘that spell’ in particular, is that they never bothered to investigate IC means of nonmagickal protection from it.

You mean like sitting at tables?  ::)  ;D

For those wondering, this little bit of counter play wasn't current even 8 years ago.

Vox

  • Posts: 416
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2018, 09:46:32 PM »
What I find truly sad about those that complain about Drovians and ‘that spell’ in particular, is that they never bothered to investigate IC means of nonmagickal protection from it.

You mean like sitting at tables?  ::)  ;D

For those wondering, this little bit of counter play wasn't current even 8 years ago.

There were updates to follow code that quickly nullified what was easily an oversight in that regard. But absolutely not what I was referring to.

Location, time of day, environmental factors, etc. And any number of things one could discover if they took the time to do so. The spell had limits, but its existence helped inject a general sense of fear that I think is currently missing in regard to magick in general.

As much as I believe that the roots of the tree of the playerbase are refreshed with the blood spilled when killing long-lived PC's, I'm not one for just griefing plots or destroying people's attempts to build/achieve for no IC reason. My point is that greater RP opportunities exist for a greater number of players when secret plans and plots aren't secret.

Magickal spies meant more precautions needed to be taken and that every shadow and dark corner was suspect. Striving to build/achieve is great and necessary, but so is striving to counter those things. These two forces yin and yang each other to a degree and the more ways we can find to make both sides really challenging keeps us focused on enjoying the process and all the delicious conflict RP involved along the way rather than some perceived product.

I guess this is all just a long-winded way of saying "No, I'm not going to stop asking for Drovians" :)

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2018, 11:26:47 PM »
It is my great dream to pay a drovian, or a Nilazi, or a psionicist.

I would pay money to play one of these.
Meh

Riev

  • Posts: 5159
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #34 on: May 31, 2018, 09:51:43 AM »
It is my great dream to pay a drovian, or a Nilazi, or a psionicist.

I would pay money to play one of these.

I played a Drovian once that got decently powerful. Before the follow-code and this whole spygate crap.

Sure, they COULD be used that way, but it took a real lot to be able to do that. A lot of preparation, a lot of timing, and leaving yourself open. I went the path of more of a battle-drovian, attacking from the shadows etc etc... even in that iteration of magickers they weren't omgosh overpowered. They were fun. They had a niche. They had an IC hatred of Krathis as a counterbalance.

But a couple used their skills to spy on top-tier plots (like the fucking templarate doesn't have master full drovians on their pet list still). I'll keep asking for them so long as they exist in the world. They didn't remove Drovians, just a PC's ability to represent them.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Veselka

  • Posts: 689
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2018, 11:51:01 AM »
Fuck Drovians.

I miss the villainy of Nilazi for sure. That “scariness” that Vox mentions. It was an aspect of the game that really set it apart.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

frankjacoby

  • Posts: 152
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #36 on: May 31, 2018, 02:21:10 PM »
I'm pouring out a fifth for Armageddon and the magick that was ruined.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2018, 01:17:13 PM »
I'm pouring out a fifth for Armageddon and the magick that was ruined.

I love your sentiment and will join you.
Meh

Harmless

  • Posts: 2730
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2018, 02:06:26 PM »
I'm pouring out a fifth for Armageddon and the magick that was ruined.

I love your sentiment and will join you.

I don't think ruined is quite right, but I still really miss the mainguild magickers. I am just glad that there is still any magick at all in this fantasy setting. I would quit for good if they removed them outright.
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stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #39 on: June 01, 2018, 06:37:56 PM »
I'm pouring out a fifth for Armageddon and the magick that was ruined.

I love your sentiment and will join you.

I don't think ruined is quite right, but I still really miss the mainguild magickers. I am just glad that there is still any magick at all in this fantasy setting. I would quit for good if they removed them outright.

I read about magical rings made by krathis, is this still a thing?

Doesn't matter. I don't have Karma. Apparently I'm not trustworthy.

I would put cash on deposit as a hedge for good behavior to play these roles. Shoot, I would outright pay for them. I'd even lie to my grandma to play a psi. I'd lie to my mother in law too. But everyone lies to their mother in law so that obviously shouldn't count.
Meh

Delirium

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Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #40 on: June 01, 2018, 06:50:11 PM »
I don't know if the irony was deliberate, but... *slow clap*
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

tapas

  • Posts: 273
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #41 on: June 01, 2018, 07:00:16 PM »
It's 2018

Sorcerers are the new Nilazis, Elkrans and Drovians.

Also who said psions were out of the game?

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #42 on: June 01, 2018, 08:02:10 PM »
It's 2018

Sorcerers are the new Nilazis, Elkrans and Drovians.

Also who said psions were out of the game?

Not an option for new players. No more Karma review. Anyway, I was googling Arm to search about the forage skill and this other GDB popped up, privately run. Everyone there thinks the game is dying?

I wonder if I should even bother. Maybe get into another game.
Meh

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1624
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #43 on: June 01, 2018, 08:49:30 PM »
That would be the Shadow Board, its full of negativity and crap. The vast majority of the people on it are probably banned for insane shennanigans and are just whining because they got offended and cant play anymore.

Besides, Arm has been around for almost 30 years, if it was going to die it probably already would have. Which is not to say that it wont after another 30 years, who knows.
« Last Edit: June 01, 2018, 08:51:51 PM by Hauwke »

TheWanderer

  • Posts: 1496
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #44 on: June 01, 2018, 08:55:33 PM »
If you beg for karma on the GDB, you're less likely to get it. Easiest way to earn it is to play a leadership role and not absolutely suck. There's usually a small pool of applicants for a lot of calls (save the Templarate), so your odds are decent if you go the sponsored route.

By the time you're finished they'll have hopefully opened reviews again.

----

Now with a slightly more on-topic note, the game feels better when you can do shady shit at night and be reasonably safe in the assumption that every PC Templar was not immediately notified afterwards. It feels better that a number of scouting missions go back to physical entities. It feels better that you can run a raiding crew or some other sort of antagonistic organization and not constantly have Drovians track you through the Known for Gemmed Team 6.

It's a nice change of pace, and psions quite easily fulfill the role of being that terrifying spy force in the world. One that doesn't have the safety nets of a city-state to catch it.
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Whatever happens, happens.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #45 on: June 01, 2018, 09:18:49 PM »
If you beg for karma on the GDB, you're less likely to get it. Easiest way to earn it is to play a leadership role and not absolutely suck. There's usually a small pool of applicants for a lot of calls (save the Templarate), so your odds are decent if you go the sponsored route.

By the time you're finished they'll have hopefully opened reviews again.

I'm resigned to the fact that I will likely never get Karma. Leadership isn't I the cards for me as I'm an off peak player and randomly need to log off to care for my infant.

In less time than I've played, I can be trusted with a child (conception and childbirth) but not an apothecary extended sub guild.

Wouldn't want to let an off peak 32 year old parent break the game with a non-violent HG grebber concept or a tribal apothecary concept. God forbid this player PK a bunch of folks as a rougue merchant, or with a warrior master clay worker.

I hate to complain, but what else can I do?
Meh

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1624
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #46 on: June 01, 2018, 09:32:13 PM »
One of the criteria for karma is longevity, just dont die for awhile, then send in a report asking for karma once they are back open again.

TheWanderer

  • Posts: 1496
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #47 on: June 01, 2018, 09:41:27 PM »
I hate to complain, but what else can I do?

I sympathize! A lot of players have been there.

Realistically, the only option you probably have right now is a special app. It's a mind-numbing month+ wait, but maybe you can ask for a quicker review process. If you're not a troublesome player, it's unlikely they'd decline a request for an extended subguild.

Otherwise, I dunno. There's no good answer. It's a weird decision to let the karma review process sit in limbo for over half a year.
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Whatever happens, happens.

Delirium

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Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #48 on: June 01, 2018, 09:46:57 PM »
It would probably help if you tried to have a more positive attitude. Enjoy exploring the game, roleplaying with the options you have, and learning how the gameworld works. This is an old game with a lot to discover, and that's part of the charm. If you laid everything bare after a few months of playing, you wouldn't have veteran players who are still having fun uncovering new stuff after 13+ years of characters. The discoveries and the mysteries, the learning curve, and the depth of roleplay are what made this game so enduring to me for so many years. So take a deep breath and enjoy the ride.
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 9685
Re: Stop Asking for Drovians
« Reply #49 on: June 01, 2018, 09:57:42 PM »
There's no expectation not to have to log off randomly if you play a sponsored role, as long as you play regularly. We need off-peak leaders too. Maybe try not being so querulous.