Author Topic: New Class Helpfiles  (Read 911 times)

Brokkr

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Re: New Class Helpfiles
« Reply #25 on: June 01, 2018, 05:29:41 PM »
I imagine it would be possible with the code, but it is much easier to keep the code very simple and specific, where we can.  Then it comes down to game design, and that we haven't chosen to go that direction.

rinthrat

  • Posts: 12
Re: New Class Helpfiles
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2018, 02:06:00 PM »
Before I suggest more skills to be added to the Pilferer - what's the reasoning behind them getting so few crafting skills and so few skills at Master, even compared to the other light mercantile classes?

To elaborate: Pilferer gets 13 Master skills (I'm counting the psionic skills, even if everyone gets them) and 8 crafting skills (7 of them at Master, 1 at Advanced).
Adventurer (light mercantile): 19 Master level skills, 14 of them crafting skills.
Craftsperson (light mercantile): 28 Master level skills, 22 of them crafting skills

Miscreant (criminal mixed): 17 Master skills
Fence (criminal heavy mercantile): 26 Master skills
I didn't count the crafting skills for the last two since they're not in the same row.

I know not all skills are created equal, but the difference is pretty striking.

Semi-related - is there a reason Adventurer doesn't get haggle? Without the option to custom craft, I feel like the mercantile guilds should at least get the core merchant skills.

Brokkr

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Re: New Class Helpfiles
« Reply #27 on: June 03, 2018, 03:26:52 PM »
I never looked at it that way.  Its more about how skills could synergize into a role.  With steal/pick/pick making/climb, the pilferer is like half-thief, and with the crafting, half merchant.  I wouldn't be opposed to adding a couple of more crafting skills to pilferer, if they make sense.  Ideally, they would make sense with their other skills or capabilities as a thief.

As for haggle, it contributes a lot to the economy being sort of out of whack and hard to balance, so I tried to be judicious in terms of which classes got it.

JustAnotherGuy

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Re: New Class Helpfiles
« Reply #28 on: June 03, 2018, 03:59:08 PM »
Haggle is also very powerful once raised.  You also have to take the Adventurer as the loner outdoorsy classes that may really not be the most trade based, like the Dune Trade.  I play Adventurer and I took a subguild that has Haggle, it's a rather powerful addition... especially when you can make high coin amount items to sell to NPCs.
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rinthrat

  • Posts: 12
Re: New Class Helpfiles
« Reply #29 on: June 03, 2018, 04:39:46 PM »
Haggle is also very powerful once raised.  You also have to take the Adventurer as the loner outdoorsy classes that may really not be the most trade based, like the Dune Trade.  I play Adventurer and I took a subguild that has Haggle, it's a rather powerful addition... especially when you can make high coin amount items to sell to NPCs.
I'm aware - haggle is also the only way I've been able to turn a profit with at least one of the crafting skills I get on the Pilferer if I'm not selling to PCs.

I never looked at it that way.  Its more about how skills could synergize into a role.  With steal/pick/pick making/climb, the pilferer is like half-thief, and with the crafting, half merchant.  I wouldn't be opposed to adding a couple of more crafting skills to pilferer, if they make sense.  Ideally, they would make sense with their other skills or capabilities as a thief.

As for haggle, it contributes a lot to the economy being sort of out of whack and hard to balance, so I tried to be judicious in terms of which classes got it.

I've already mentioned toolmaking so the things they can craft don't get narrowed down further by unavailable tools. The other one I had in mind was fletchery - mostly so your criminal organization doesn't have to order blowdarts from Salarr before they can use their shiny blowgun skill in an assassination. They would still need to get a blowgun somewhere if they don't have anyone with bowmaking available, but these aren't consumables and don't need to be re-supplied all the time. It's feasible to steal or find a blowgun (or any missile, really) somewhere and to keep using that forever. But you need a pretty steady supply of blowdarts/missiles.  Of course, it would also synergize with crossbow use.

The weird thing about the Pilferer is that they are only really good at crafting skills (and steal, but not peek or sleight of hand, or stealth skills, so they're still not great pickpockets), but the vast majority of the skills they get aren't crafting skills, and two of the crafting skills are a bit meh (club making and clayworking, although I might be wrong on clayworking). I feel if they were truly half thief, half merchant, things would be more balanced. Skill levels seem unshakeable at this point, so the only solution I see is strengthening their merchant side, and turning them into the shadiest merchant ever.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2018, 04:53:14 PM by rinthrat »

Zwen

  • Posts: 394
Re: New Class Helpfiles
« Reply #30 on: June 04, 2018, 09:29:23 AM »
This is a fairly minor issue, but I thought I'd mention it since now we can all see all the help files.

It looks like three classes get steal: miscreant, pilferer, and fence. Miscreant gets it as a starting skill, and the other two branch it. My only quibble with this is that, particularly for the fence but to a lesser extent to pilferer, the character may already have a decent amount of coin from crafting before they learn how to steal. In other words, they might have lost the incentive to steal by the time they learn how to do it.

Brokkr

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Re: New Class Helpfiles
« Reply #31 on: June 04, 2018, 01:02:33 PM »
I think it probably depends on how they are playing the character?  If they are doing sneak, skullduggery sort of things, it makes sense they would get more of those things.  If they are concentrating on making money through crafting, then yeah they probably will make money through crafting.

I've seen some brilliant uses of steal for things other than gaining money, though.

rinthrat

  • Posts: 12
Re: New Class Helpfiles
« Reply #32 on: June 04, 2018, 01:31:19 PM »
This is a fairly minor issue, but I thought I'd mention it since now we can all see all the help files.

It looks like three classes get steal: miscreant, pilferer, and fence. Miscreant gets it as a starting skill, and the other two branch it. My only quibble with this is that, particularly for the fence but to a lesser extent to pilferer, the character may already have a decent amount of coin from crafting before they learn how to steal. In other words, they might have lost the incentive to steal by the time they learn how to do it.

This is a fairly minor issue, but I thought I'd mention it since now we can all see all the help files.

It looks like three classes get steal: miscreant, pilferer, and fence. Miscreant gets it as a starting skill, and the other two branch it. My only quibble with this is that, particularly for the fence but to a lesser extent to pilferer, the character may already have a decent amount of coin from crafting before they learn how to steal. In other words, they might have lost the incentive to steal by the time they learn how to do it.

I agree and actually mentioned something similar in one of those feedback requests. The Pilferer starts out heavily on the crafting side, without having that many crafting skills. But since branching is fairly quick, it wasn't a major issue.