Author Topic: "There's a pit in the north" or "Aaaaaaaaaaarrgh I didn't see it comiiiiiing"  (Read 1140 times)

theebie

  • Posts: 357
How about a new "nosave" command called "nosave dont-willingly-walk-into-that-chasm".

If turned on, it would prevent people from entering rooms where you could fall down and warn them with something like "This area would require climbing".

I think most of my characters are clever enough to -not- fall into gigantic, openly visible holes in the ground. Especially seasoned desert hunters.

BrainySmurf

  • Posts: 37
I require everyone in my group to nosave climbfollow as a gesture of faith.

On a serious note, this is a much needed QOL change that people have been asking for, for a long time. I want it, but playing devil's advocate, there are some examples (ie, moving around at night with only the moons for light) where it would be reasonable to not see a fall. But given that A) most scenarios people would be aware and willfully approaching falls rather than blindly traipsing into them and B) many fall rooms have ambiguous room names that don't make it clear they're deathtrap, I'm in favor.

Riev

  • Posts: 5129
For holes/pits, this does not exist.

For more obvious falls, like falling off the Shield Wall, you actually have to type n ! or something like that don't you?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

nauta

  • Posts: 2335
Just as an FYI, at some point in late 2015, staff implemented a few qualty-of-life additions to address the above issue with a select number of fissures/cliffs (Shield Wall being the obvious one):

(1) There are room echoes about shifting sands, etc. that alert the user.

(2) You actually can't go off (most) of the Shield Wall with the usual direction commands (north, south, etc.).  You get a message and then have to type: "north now" or something of the sort (as Riev said).

(3) In general, cleaned up the room descriptions for cliffs to make it obvious that there is, indeed, a cliff up ahead.  (Some descriptions were rather vague.)

(4) Implemented nosave climbfollow to prevent minions from following leaders off a cliff.

To be sure there are /other/ pits out there that don't have such features.

Also, for what it is worth, I quite like (1) and (3) and (4), but I don't really like (2): there's a kind of 'game' aspect to pits where knowing the lay of the land and being careful with your input is a distinctive advantage in a chase scene, for example.  (Cf. the tablelands, where invaders are at a disadvantage because the natives know, or eventually learn, the lay of the land.)

So, to OP, I'd say if there is a cliff/pit you have in mind, send in a request to staff to see if they'd implement (1-4) on it.  Perhaps it was overlooked in the later 2015 changes.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Veselka

  • Posts: 648
I dunno. Accidents happen. I donít want the game to turn into a bowling alley lane with bumpers.
The progress of greatness is tampered with by the inadequacy of mediocrity.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 441
I've made my peace with fall rooms. The trick is to treat it not like your character just idiotically stepped into oblivion, while whistling. You can play it like they stepped too close to the edge and the precarious ground crumbled away beneath their feet.

Riev

  • Posts: 5129
I've been playing this game for like 15 years. On a semi-recent character, I was in the tablelands and dropped into a hole and lost my mount. Then got attacked by things. Almost didn't make it out.

Should I have known better? Yes. Was there a description in the room that said "OH SHIT RIEV LOOK OUT"? Yes. I still fell in.

I'm only okay with (2) because ICly, your character wouldn't just ride off the shield wall. THAT is noticeable, and you don't always know if "edge of the cliff" is a climb room, or a safe room, due to inconsistencies.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Krath

  • Posts: 2378
I dunno. Accidents happen. I donít want the game to turn into a bowling alley lane with bumpers.

This is Armageddon. Please read above.
But it's cool, I can rap my skills, too
Cuz I rise above the rest like
'mon un whira [IC info removed]'

Eyeball

  • Posts: 798
How about a new "nosave" command called "nosave dont-willingly-walk-into-that-chasm".

If this is done, I suggest it be set up to not work at night.

cnemus

  • Posts: 89
If I doof and forget where I am I want the game to smack me with fall damage. I think the no follow and descriptions offer enough help as is. I do not want to see a new nosave to help me be less dumb. When you aren't taking your time or watching where you are going, accidents happen. I think there should be consequences. We are not living in a paved paradise, we are on the cusp of hell.

WithSprinkles

  • Posts: 364
If I doof and forget where I am I want the game to smack me with fall damage. I think the no follow and descriptions offer enough help as is. I do not want to see a new nosave to help me be less dumb. When you aren't taking your time or watching where you are going, accidents happen. I think there should be consequences. We are not living in a paved paradise, we are on the cusp of hell.

+1

When I am moseying along and hit a direction too many times, because I am not paying attention, I look around like, "What the hell? Where am I?" In those moments, I know I would have deserved whatever happened and get a moment of heart-pounding relief that I didn't walk off a cliff or into a 'friendly' wildlife welcoming committee.

My thought is that the current changes made were good, but this discussion is good also for idea exchange. To add to it, I suggest that we shouldn't feel free to FIGHT close to cliff edges. Waking or riding close to them, fine. But if someone is having a pitched, prolonged battle right near one, some factors could possibly come into play. Like them slipping. Sometimes fighting in certain places can't be helped, but it should be an understood risk.
« Last Edit: May 23, 2018, 12:38:20 PM by WithSprinkles »

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 5128
I dunno. Accidents happen. I donít want the game to turn into a bowling alley lane with bumpers.
If I doof and forget where I am I want the game to smack me with fall damage. I think the no follow and descriptions offer enough help as is. I do not want to see a new nosave to help me be less dumb. When you aren't taking your time or watching where you are going, accidents happen. I think there should be consequences. We are not living in a paved paradise, we are on the cusp of hell.
+1
This is Armageddon. Please read above.
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nauta

  • Posts: 2335
Quote
My thought is that the current changes made were good, but this discussion is good also for idea exchange. To add to it, I suggest that we shouldn't feel free to FIGHT close to cliff edges. Waking or riding close to them, fine. But if someone is having a pitched, prolonged battle right near one, some factors could possibly come into play. Like them slipping. Sometimes fighting in certain places can't be helped, but it should be an understood risk.

Even with the bumpercar cliffs/pits (i.e., the Shield Wall), you can still fall off: a failed flee attempt, for instance, which makes it risky to fight next to them, to be sure; also I do believe a failed direction sense check (i.e., in a storm) does, (or should if it doesn't!), send you over the edge.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 441
To add to it, I suggest that we shouldn't feel free to FIGHT close to cliff edges. Waking or riding close to them, fine. But if someone is having a pitched, prolonged battle right near one, some factors could possibly come into play. Like them slipping. Sometimes fighting in certain places can't be helped, but it should be an understood risk.

Yeah, I think the way it works is OK right now. If you're controlling the battle and you're confident, I don't see why it wouldn't be easy for you to steer the fight away from the cliff edge. But once you're NOT comfortable, a failed flee check could easily take you off the edge. So it's already a dangerous place to scuffle, especially with critters that can bash you in a direction.

WithSprinkles

  • Posts: 364
Hmm. Alright! I concede those points and retract. Didn't take all those factors into account.

tapas

  • Posts: 265
I don't think these falls add anything other than hours of needless frustration. There should be better ways to communicate that the desert is dangerous and hostile without trapping a player in a pit until someone with a rope swings by.

BrainySmurf

  • Posts: 37
I don't think these falls add anything other than hours of needless frustration. There should be better ways to communicate that the desert is dangerous and hostile without trapping a player in a pit until someone with a rope swings by.

Echoed. I recognize people are making valid points about the gameworld being dangerous but ultimately dying to an accidental input that launches you into a four room fall or stumbling into an inescapable hole with a dujat or four gith in it is not fun, immersive, or satisfying in any way, shape or form. There are ways to make the world dangerous that don't feel like Dragon's Lair style one hit kill gotchas. And again, even if we're saying the edge of the chasm gives way, I'd argue approaching even the edge of a precipice is a conscious act and should require an additional input.

Also I've fallen off the shieldwall as recently as January so there's still plenty of places to do it.

It's the fucking desert. In a low-tech wasteland. Watch where you walk.

If there are rooms where even watching where you walk doesn't do shit, that's different. But if it can be solved by looking at room descs or at exits or looking in directions, then it's your own damn fault, sorry to say.

This isn't Viva Pinata. This is a goddamn apocalyptic world and you should be careful travelling randomly. It takes 3 seconds to travel a non-road room even on the back of a fast mount. Alias 'x' to 'stop' and just spam it when you're wary - you get PLENTY of time to correct your fuckups.
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The Desert Bloom is a Greggs, tbh.

tapas

  • Posts: 265
It's the fucking desert. In a low-tech wasteland. Watch where you walk.

If there are rooms where even watching where you walk doesn't do shit, that's different. But if it can be solved by looking at room descs or at exits or looking in directions, then it's your own damn fault, sorry to say.

This isn't Viva Pinata. This is a goddamn apocalyptic world and you should be careful travelling randomly. It takes 3 seconds to travel a non-road room even on the back of a fast mount. Alias 'x' to 'stop' and just spam it when you're wary - you get PLENTY of time to correct your fuckups.

No we don't need dark souls fucking difficulty in our text adventures. In a game like this, having such binary death or fall rooms is frankly just poor design.

Veselka

  • Posts: 648
Disagree. I would say itís exactly as intended. This game is easy enough. No baby bumpers please.
The progress of greatness is tampered with by the inadequacy of mediocrity.

How is
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"You are now in 'Hey Dipshit There's A Cliff Up Ahead [N D S] This room is right next to a fucking cliff wow look at that cliff go.'"
'Dark Souls difficulty'?
« Last Edit: May 24, 2018, 06:25:55 PM by MatisseOrOtherwise »
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It's always lizard time.

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The Desert Bloom is a Greggs, tbh.

WithSprinkles

  • Posts: 364
I promise I'm not being rude, but this last post made me giggle for a whole minute because of something I experienced in game. Sometimes a drop will just not be.. clear in the room description and the person you are following will disappear (thank gawd for nosave follow). One time that happened and the rest of our group just stared for a moment and all I could think as a PLAYER was:

"Oh yeaaaah. I'm traveling with the Byn, aren't I? Daaaamn... They just FIND random holes to fall into, huh?"

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1565
Honestly the only time I have ever had trouble figuring out whether or not a spot is a climb room or not and it actually mattered, was when it was specifically meant to be difficult to work out I.E a trap of some description.

The Warshaper

  • Posts: 143
One of my most favorite moments was falling off the Shield Wall... and surviving.  :-X #forevernoob

The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 861
I agree with the others who think you should just be more careful. I believe that the system is fine the way it is now.

As far as the cute little Dark Souls comment... this is Armageddon. In case you forget, this is supposed to be hard mode. People lately seem to be trying to make it more fluffy - that isn't what Armageddon is.

It tortures you, it makes you want to cry, it makes you experience feelings of loss in real life over a game. People are mean here, there are no safe places. Despite all that, it makes you create a new character come back again and do it all over.

I don't think more changes are needed to make traveling the desert easier. If you just look around you and pay attention to room descriptions you're not going to fall into a hole. I played almost exclusively in the desert for years and I had my mishaps and I believe they all would have been preventable if I would have just paid more attention.

This isn't Mario Brothers. Let's put on our big boy pants.
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