Author Topic: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.  (Read 1474 times)

Razzbane

  • Posts: 9
Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« on: April 30, 2018, 01:00:54 PM »
Hi folks, i'm playing already over 2 months in arma but haven't been on single event because it is always between 8-10 pm server time. Its too late for me, i understand its peak time but other timezones suffer from it. I bet arma lost dozens of players because of that. No events makes this game boring for longer period of time.

Please consider making events earlier or even later. Not always 8-10 pm all year.

MarshallDFX

  • Posts: 1531
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 03:11:06 PM »
A common refrain in the last player staff meeting was to target a squad of leaders from off-peak timezones .

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7718
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2018, 05:54:19 PM »
Having sponsored role leaders available off-peak doesn't help at all, when the OTHER people needed to be there, are not available. Promoted leaders (as opposed to sponsored role leaders) are available when they're available. And then there's the whole coordination thing. If only a single person who's available at 6PM server time is needed to run the entire event, that's great. But when was the last time you ever saw that?

I've missed plenty because I know something that starts at 9, isn't something I'd be able to do much with. I might get to see the start of it but when stuff gets REALLY interesting an hour later? That's when I have to log out.

My only suggestion is to create an RPT, and lead it at your own convenience. Maybe join the Byn, get promoted to Sergeant, and run scheduled practice patrols. Just don't get too upset when most people can't attend. It's called peak time because that's when MOST people can attend. Not because it's a specific time of day.

If most people could attend at 4 in the morning, then peak time would be 4 in the morning.

Doesn't make it any more convenient, knowing all of this but - players schedule things when they think the "people who probably should be there most" will actually be able to be there.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 08:19:55 PM »
As Lizzie said, it is just an unfortunate sense of timing. There is only so much to be done when you have an RPT that involves 4-5 key people who only have 11pm Server as their overlap.

I primarily play from 10am server time when people are in the single digits. It is an adjustment, but you find that anything you see another player, its an impromptu RPT.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Nao

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 04:46:05 AM »
What sort of RPT absolutely requires 4 to 5 key people, though? When I have been able to attend, I have seen at most one or two that are irreplaceable. I honestly don't get it. Would the thing get canceled if one or two suddenly got sick, ICly?

The 'whenever most people can attend' paradigm honestly sucks. Because it ends up with peak players getting it all, every single time, and everyone else being left out, every single time. What is the problem with tossing us a bone and doing this at 2 PM or so on a weekend every once in a while?

Re: Do it yourself - this is a bit of a chicken-egg problem. Players who don't attend key events are less likely to get promoted, and far less likely to have the leadership and politics experience that's required for most sponsored roles.
A rusty brown kank explodes into little bits.

Someone says, out of character:
     "I had to fix something in this zone.. YOU WEREN'T HERE 2 minutes ago :)"

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1643
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 04:58:50 AM »
A spider nest clearing RPT needs way more than 4 or 5 guys. 4 or 5 guys is usually the losses on such a trip.

The plays that were held IG a little bit ago required 4 or 5 people to do it, so that everything made sense.

An arena RPT needs 4 or 5 people to go ahead, the guy doing the calling, and a couple fighters to make things interesting.

Conversely, there are plenty of things that only need a pair of or three people to be fun, but they are often improved for all with more people. Parties for example, sure, you only need the one guy organizing the party to be there, but show of hands: Who wants to throw a party, spending a good chunk of energy on it, for just yourself?

Nao

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 05:09:37 AM »
A spider nest clearing RPT needs way more than 4 or 5 guys. 4 or 5 guys is usually the losses on such a trip.
Alright, but I don't think every single Byn or combat RPT needs to be a spider nest clearing.

Quote
An arena RPT needs 4 or 5 people to go ahead, the guy doing the calling, and a couple fighters to make things interesting.
That makes for one caller that's essential, but the fighters? You don't need those specific players, they're replaceable. You'd probably run into the chicken-egg problem again, because - people don't app gladiators if they can't be online at the RPT times. Absolutely fixable, though.

Quote
Conversely, there are plenty of things that only need a pair of or three people to be fun, but they are often improved for all with more people. Parties for example, sure, you only need the one guy organizing the party to be there, but show of hands: Who wants to throw a party, spending a good chunk of energy on it, for just yourself?
Earlier in the day, there are usually 20 to 30 people online. For a party RPT, you'd probably get some logging on that wouldn't normally be there. There's just no way you'd be all alone for a party RPT.
A rusty brown kank explodes into little bits.

Someone says, out of character:
     "I had to fix something in this zone.. YOU WEREN'T HERE 2 minutes ago :)"

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7718
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2018, 06:59:27 AM »
Earlier in the day, there are usually 20 to 30 people online. For a party RPT, you'd probably get some logging on that wouldn't normally be there. There's just no way you'd be all alone for a party RPT.

Then organize one when you're around. There's no rule stating that only clan leaders are allowed to organize RPTs. You don't have to be in a clan at all. There've been plenty of RPTs organized by non-clan-leaders in the past, some went well, some not so well.

Put it on the tavern board, send a note to the independent staff that you're planning it, and enjoy the results of your hard work at 2 in the afternoon when most people in the USA are at work and can't play, but most everyone else is available.

I've run card games, impromptu drinking parties, arranged sales for rich people, had an auction, all off-peak. Not at 2 in the morning, but certainly mid-day. There's no reason why you can't do the same.

I think this is where "be the change" is most appropriate.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Razzbane

  • Posts: 9
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2018, 07:10:37 AM »
Guys with this attitude armageddon never will have healthy non-US amount of players. It seems arma is struggling with disease called "we don't play on off-peak hours" - thats probably one of reasons why arma playerbase is quite low. Even on peak time.

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11889
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2018, 07:43:00 AM »
I'm not sure what you expect peak players to do.

This sounds like an opportunity for off-peak players to take initiative and start organizing some Rpts.
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

worldofsand

  • Posts: 20
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 08:35:18 AM »
Well, it's easy to tell some new player to just organize his own RPTs. Not terribly helpful, though. When he sees that RPTs always happen in the US evening, and the game features 10-20 players during the hours he's online, it's not very productive to tell him that it's his own problem. Armageddon definitely has an off-peak problem, and the lack of off-peak players isn't the reason, it's the result. Other muds seem to have much better European and Oceanic populations. What do they do right that Arm doesn't?

I think the problem is that those parts of the day are really unsupported, yet staff support is needed for most things that matter. If you're in a clan, odds are pretty high that your clan staffer is American. I don't know how many staffers are off-peak themselves, but maybe the ones that are there need more leeway to cover more ground, like standing in as clan staff even if they aren't assigned to that clan.

It's a game where nothing happens until peak hours. Thus many don't bother to log in before then even if they could. Maybe if there was the occasional world event in the afternoon, off-peak play would feel less futile. A player RPT is all well and good, but what's missing for off-peakers isn't just parties and spider genocide, it's story. The world stands still until 8pm server time.

And I think clanned life is overly dependent on other players being around. If you try to become a soldier and you find that you're alone in the training yard most of the time, it's easy to decide that the game isn't for you. Other muds have offered ways of training that don't depend entirely on players being online at the same time as you, but that idea is somehow frowned upon here.

So I'd expect players (peak or otherwise) to be less dismissive of an obvious problem in the game.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 08:41:14 AM by worldofsand »

Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 09:19:54 AM »
First, can we stop this "us vs them" mentality? We're all playing the same fucking game, and the peak players aren't some elite 1% to rail against.

Second, I play while at work and VERY RARELY can I get on later or on weekends. Often when I do, I find I don't recognize half the people because we just don't play at the same times.

Third, off-peak newbies don't really have the ability to throw their own RPT because they don't often see them to know what they CAN do or what is EXPECTED. It is a little like saying "Well I rebuilt the engine block of my car, you can just do that too!" Sure, but you can't expect them to have any of the pre-req knowledge.

Fourth, plenty happens before and after peak hours, but the entire game is in a very "cooperative, behind clan doors" phase right now. Tight knit groups of people play together, and its not that they aren't OPEN to more people, but they have their "DnD Group" and they're out doing things, while some of us are waiting to be invited. Find other people waiting around, figure out what they're about, and see if they're someone you'd want to hang around with. Honestly? The movers are shakers are often too busy moving and shaking to be around to notice you're waiting to join.

Fifth, being alone in a clan is the WORST. FEELING. EVER. PERIOD. Whether you're a schedule-person or not, there is nothing more boring than doing what you're supposed to do, but nobody else is around and you can't codedly advance (a year as a Bynner should see SOME advancement). And then when you fuck off and go DO something fun, you're punished ICly because suddenly the "world came alive". Staff can support this, partially, but you know whats worse than being alone in your clan? Being alone in you clan, with a staffer who is not able to be active when you are. As I understand it, there is currently no OFFICIAL way to say "Hey, I know Brokkr can't be around when I play, and he's my staffer, so can I switch to Seidhr instead?" because Seidhr still needs to pass everything through Brokkr so he is updated.

Sixth, I just wanted to go past five.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

nauta

  • Posts: 2335
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 09:49:45 AM »
Sixth, I just wanted to go past five.

First, I couldn't disagree more about six, but you know my views on numbers above five by now, so I'll pass it over it in silence (darüber muss man schweigen).

Second, I wrote this up a bit ago and I'm still thinking about how to present it, and it is only slightly related, but it might be good to have a HOWTO guide about RPTs: what are they? what kinds of them are there? how do I join them? how are staff involved or not involved in them? how can I host my own?

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,53552.0.html

Otherwise, a lot of good food for thought up above about the issue of peak vs. off-peak, although in my view the question should be: granted I'm an off-peaker, how do I have or make fun?  (How do I find other people?  What sorts of plots could I realistically pursue? etc.)

as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11889
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 09:53:31 AM »
Yes, but we can't very well start playing at 3am in the morning when we have work in 5 hours.

I like the idea of having a helpfile or some documentation as Nauta describes above.
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 10:21:03 AM »
I'm an off peek player mostly, occasional prime time. Very rare.

I've never played an RPT. I don't know what the big deal is. Seems like your screen would just be spammed with words and quotes.

But also, I rarely see players let alone clans. I see this game as a solo game with occasional player interaction to drive motivations.
Meh

Eyeball

  • Posts: 816
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2018, 10:51:21 AM »
Why not some on Saturday or Sunday afternoons (server time)?

Pacific would be late morning.

Eastern would be early afternoon.

Europe would be early to mid evening.

Seems to work for all.

Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2018, 11:05:40 AM »
I will say that on my last Byn Sergeant, because of my playtimes, I often tried to run RPTs at 2pm-3pm Server Time, but I also had a few people who played during that playtime to come with me. We never got the "EXTERMINATE A HUNDRED SPIDERS!!!!" RPTs, but we had a few interesting outings that got people together, killed, or otherwise.

Sometimes it just takes a leader, but having a Jal Noble on early in the week doesn't necessarily mean Jal Parties in the Sewers all day, either. Byn is easy because "everyone wants to join the Byn". Sometimes, you just need to forestall belief for a moment and get together with people you might not NORMALLY play with, and set up a card game, or negotiate a trade of a bunch of rocks you don't REALLY ned.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Razzbane

  • Posts: 9
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2018, 11:52:59 AM »
I've never played an RPT. I don't know what the big deal is. Seems like your screen would just be spammed with words and quotes.

But also, I rarely see players let alone clans. I see this game as a solo game with occasional player interaction to drive motivations.

Thats it. We heard legends about Rpt every weekend, but we never been on any.

I saw this game as solo game too, because there are not too many off-peak players online and if there happens someone then he/she isn't too actively rping. Luckily i joined my clan in right time and we have clan peak time muchly earlier than rest of server.

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11889
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2018, 11:58:49 AM »
When I tried to run RPTs at midday during weekends it was touch and go how many people would attend. I'm all for trying that more consistently but on the flip side you really can't blame people for staging RPTs at the times when they are most able to run them and can expect the most reliable turnout. You cannot expect people to bend over backwards to stage RPTs at times that are not convenient to them on a regular basis.

If you do, check your expectations at the door. This is a game.

I have sympathy for off-peak players but I don't have sympathy for expecting peak players to become offpeak players because off-peak players feel lonely. Vote. Recruit your friends. Be interesting. Deal with it in a way that makes sense rather than clamoring for others to inconvenience themselves for your sake.
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

Nao

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2018, 12:16:51 PM »
Put it on the tavern board, send a note to the independent staff that you're planning it, and enjoy the results of your hard work at 2 in the afternoon when most people in the USA are at work and can't play, but most everyone else is available.

Thus the "on the weekend" part of the 2PM suggestion. Some people need to work on weekends, but I don't think that's the majority and plenty of US players (maybe even most of them) would be able to make it.

Nobody is asking to move the new default time for RPTs to some off-peak timeslot. It would just be nice if the movers and shakers (who are in clanned leadership positions for 95% of RPTs...) would at least consider moving them to another timeslot on occasion. There are reasonable options outside of US work hours or the middle of the night.

Quote
Just do it yourself.
Organizing pretty much anything without a clan, or as a grunt? Gets inifintely more complicated. Outside of a clan, you have no clan boards, no ooc way to coordinate playtimes. Want two other players to get involved in the play? You have to catch them both at the same time, or pass messages back and forth, and by the time you're done, one of your unclanned buddies has probably died.

The stuff you can do without clan support and access to the clan's resources (storage space and whatnot) is also pretty limited.

As a grunt inside of a clan? You have to clear absolutely everything with your clan leaders, probably have rules against going places by yourself, and very limited options to make money.

The reason this is not happening right now is not "there's nobody online or willing to log on for an RPT".
A rusty brown kank explodes into little bits.

Someone says, out of character:
     "I had to fix something in this zone.. YOU WEREN'T HERE 2 minutes ago :)"

worldofsand

  • Posts: 20
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2018, 01:36:15 PM »
I don't have sympathy for expecting peak players to become offpeak players because off-peak players feel lonely. Vote. Recruit your friends. Be interesting. Deal with it in a way that makes sense rather than clamoring for others to inconvenience themselves for your sake.

Who's asking you to become an off-peak player? You're the only one who keeps bringing that up. It's needlessly confrontational. OP was asking if RPTs could sometimes be scheduled earlier in the day, because they're pretty much exclusively an 8/9/10pm thing. He's not "clamoring" for anything, he's not telling you to change your playtimes. He's pointing out a problem: RPTs pretty much aren't a thing unless you play during a specific 4-6 hour window. Surely he can start such a discussion without having to get insulted.

I'm pretty sure OP isn't talking about "RPTs" like Byn patrols and card games. Major events happen almost exclusively at 9-12pm. Surely this isn't the only time anyone can ever possibly orchestrate anything impactful. I think it's reasonable to suggest that some of these things happen on a Sat/Sun afternoon now and then. It's hard to believe that Armageddon's playerbase, in contrast with other similar games, is uniquely pigeonholed into playing only late US evenings. It seems more likely that players have become so accustomed to this that they don't consider running RPTs in other timeslots. You can't tell me it has never been possible for a templar and one or two gladiators to meet on a weekend afternoon and ring the bell. I've seen it happen, but never seen it scheduled ahead of time.

Since these things do sometimes happen randomly in off-peak hours but aren't scheduled for it, it's not something you can plan for. I think it's fair to suggest that it could be done. Maybe the guy isn't playing a character that can realistically run RPTs, so placing the entire burden of a player culture problem on him (and sending the message that "no, we don't give a fuck about you, do it all yourself") is kind of uncool. There's no real reason meaningful RPTs can't occasionally happen in the afternoon, it's just that staff and leadership players aren't in the habit.

I think it's entirely possible to do something about this trend without anyone having to bend over backwards for anybody else. I often see templars and leaders around in the afternoon, and 30ish players. Presumably there are staffers around at these times as well. It seems the only reason RPTs can't happen at 2-4pm with at least some measure of regularity is that people simply aren't in the habit of doing it. That's a culture problem and it isn't fixed by one guy. It's a community thing.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 02:04:13 PM by worldofsand »

Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2018, 01:46:00 PM »
Your opinion is woefully misinformed.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

worldofsand

  • Posts: 20
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2018, 02:07:32 PM »
Ok buddy.

Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2018, 02:33:53 PM »
Ok buddy.

Not only have there been RPTs in this time slot before, but "all the important stuff that has happened in Zalanthas happened between 9pm-12am" is pure hyperbole.

It doesn't happen often, no. You might see 30 players, but 5 are in allanak, 3 are in Red Storm, 9 are desert elves, another 5 are traveling, 6 are AFK behind their compound gates...

There have been RPTs in off-peak times. It isn't a culture thing, they are just rare. Its not that we aren't "used to it", but OFTEN it requires a sponsored role/leadership position to be available and those are OFTEN more available during peak play times.

Find a staff interested in your plot. Talk with them about it, and tell them how you plan to involve other players. Pray three times to the east and hope they're not going to go AFK on you for 3 weeks. Then make an RPT. Its not hard, its JUST. RARE.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Rahnevyn

  • Posts: 962
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2018, 03:49:28 PM »
Please stay positive in this thread. I'd generally like to see suggestions about how to throw RPTs or coordinate players at off-peak times. Let's avoid telling other people they are wrong and instead focus on ways to make things better.
Quote from: Rock
Scissors are fine.  Please nerf paper.

Rahnevyn

  • Posts: 962
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #25 on: May 01, 2018, 04:03:53 PM »
On topic, this may sound overly simple, but to get more stuff happening outside peak, there are a few things we can do more of.

1. Throw more offpeak events (if you can, don't feel obligated)

2. Attend more offpeak events (if you can, don't feel obligated)

Not all events need to be Big Major Things or require you to be a clan leader. You can be an indie merchant displaying your crafts, or a miner who wants to go out in a group for a larger haul, or a gambler throwing a card game, etc. Don't be shy to start small, just get something started. There are the in city rumor boards and the Player Announcements forum to help with promotion. Even if you have no ideas, see point 2.

I was sad to see the sentiment that Armageddon feels like a solo game. Armageddon is an RPI. Our key focus is roleplaying and immersive storytelling. We do sort of okay as a single player roguelike, but honestly that's not our thing and other games do it a lot better. If there are ways anyone can think of to improve interaction off peak, I'd love to hear them, but again, please try to steer the conversation away from telling other players to play differently or at different times.
Quote from: Rock
Scissors are fine.  Please nerf paper.

Rahnevyn

  • Posts: 962
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #26 on: May 01, 2018, 04:15:45 PM »
I think the problem is that those parts of the day are really unsupported, yet staff support is needed for most things that matter. If you're in a clan, odds are pretty high that your clan staffer is American. I don't know how many staffers are off-peak themselves, but maybe the ones that are there need more leeway to cover more ground, like standing in as clan staff even if they aren't assigned to that clan.

There are staff available to support at all times of the day. If you need support from a specific clan, and that clan's staff member can't play at your times, we will find another staff member to cover for us. This is best organized through the request took and it is true whether you play on or off peak.
Quote from: Rock
Scissors are fine.  Please nerf paper.

Veselka

  • Posts: 724
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #27 on: May 01, 2018, 04:57:43 PM »
I think there's typically been an incredible effort, especially for long festival events, to throw a few Off-Peak events into the mix. Staff have been great about recruiting a leader into a 1-3 Leadership PC clan that hits Off Peak (The Byn, for example). In an ideal world, yes, we would have the playerbase to support having peak through off-peak activity, but that just isn't the case these days. There's generally more of a spread out playerbase -- Peak has moved to be much more off-peak than it was 6 or 10 years ago. It's more even throughout, and I rarely see the numbers dip to below 20 throughout the day, even in the early morning PST.

Yes -- I think we could do better to accommodate  people who are GMT and off peak. But it's been an American-Centric Population since inception, and that's where the major part of the playerbase is. So that's when the RPTs will typically be scheduled to accommodate.

Speaking as a 'Peak Player' who's been in leadership roles -- I will usually inquire with other parties when it would be best to schedule, and I try to include people who are off-peak and may be able to make it if it were a little earlier, or a little later. But at the end of the day, I also have a life to live -- So if I have to stay up till 2AM to make it happen for someone else, I have to weigh what is going on in my life and if I can compromise in that manner. I have to weigh all of the other Players who might be involved, and if it will put them out more than it will put out this off-peak person less. It isn't a simple equation, it requires nuance and careful consideration.

What i've done before is (when possible) have 2 RPTs, where one is geared more towards peak, and the other, more off-peak, if I have the schedule to swing it, and it ICly makes sense. For example, having a long Byn Patrol for Peak, and one for Off Peak. Another thing I might do is extended to be a RL week long, so we 'station' in a certain part of the world, so when off-peak log in, they will have the interaction focused there.

Again -- Festivals (especially the long ones) have all had at least 1, if not 2 or 3, events designed to allow off-peak players to participate. I don't find this to be an endemic problem of the game, if anything, our playerbase and Staff address it far more than most other games i've participated in.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Krath

  • Posts: 2430
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #28 on: May 01, 2018, 05:13:59 PM »
This.

As an Off-peak player, I have to agree with Ves' statement. In addition to that I can tell you this, there are RPTs that happen, and happen frequently off peak. I think the one thing we as the players can do is try to incorporate as many other pcs and clans as possible.

More often than not, and I might get docked some karma for what I am about to say, I will break character and do everything possible to come up with any reason to include either indy PCs or other clans in RPTs or just normal daily activities. 

As far as support from the IMMS, It is there, and plentiful for the offpeakers. You actually get faster response times because there are less people asking for assistance to die help and animations. They will support RPTs, and will help you the entire way.

Also a tip, if you meet a PC in game, simple ask "Hey are you around normally during this time of the week? I'm looking for some reliable help."

Basic stuff yeah, but K.I.S.   Keep it Simple.

Armageddon is best when it's actually harsh and brutal, not when we're only pretending that it is.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #29 on: May 01, 2018, 08:11:32 PM »
Never mind
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 06:43:15 PM by stoicreader »
Meh

Scrumpkin

  • Posts: 183
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #30 on: May 01, 2018, 08:25:33 PM »
I think the staff does a great job.  Even though mother fuckers are dying, they are dying to great events that shape this world.  I listened to that Rogue radio, Sanvean motivated me.  I could actually hear her get excited to talk about the subject of total Armageddon.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 12:58:43 AM by Scrumpkin »

MarshallDFX

  • Posts: 1531
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #31 on: May 02, 2018, 04:15:59 AM »
If you build it (hire leaders) players will come ...

Hopefully

If you imagined the off-peak arm was it's own separate game, how would you grow the player base?

Not a rhetorical question.

Dar

  • Posts: 1311
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #32 on: May 02, 2018, 04:38:39 AM »
If you build it (hire leaders) players will come ...

That's dreadfully wrong, I'm afraid. Plenty of times there is a sponsored role with zerrro followers.

Question to staff.

if a storyteller of GMH, with no active GMH membership currently online, sees a dude in Byn who quiet clearly has nothing to do. How difficult/strange/unacceptable/discouraged is it for the GMH storyteller to use the Byn tools (ie byn npcs) to give some content for the lonely bored Byn player to do stuff with?

MarshallDFX

  • Posts: 1531
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #33 on: May 02, 2018, 05:19:37 AM »
If you build it (hire leaders) players will come ...

That's dreadfully wrong, I'm afraid. Plenty of times there is a sponsored role with zerrro followers.


I'm sure that's true, I just don't know how to escape the vicious circle.  As pointed out earlier it's obvious that this isn't something for NA timezones to "fix" .. so hence my question

Nao

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #34 on: May 02, 2018, 05:32:33 AM »
If you build it (hire leaders) players will come ...
That's dreadfully wrong, I'm afraid. Plenty of times there is a sponsored role with zerrro followers.
GMH members and nobles - got to put in some effort to recruit, I guess. But for clans like the Byn Sarge? Not having one before or after peak is a problem, and if they're available and at least marginally engaging, there will be players.

I know staff support has come up as a concern before, but the off-peak crowd is used to making their own fun and pretty self-sufficient. I don't think that's prohibitive.

One role where this seems to work well at the moment is templars. They seem to be around at pretty much all times of the day, and it's a massive improvement over when I last played - I couldn't find a PC templar if I tried. Now there's plots and various things going on (not going into too much detail here), and it's pretty great.
A rusty brown kank explodes into little bits.

Someone says, out of character:
     "I had to fix something in this zone.. YOU WEREN'T HERE 2 minutes ago :)"

Suhuy

  • Posts: 1077
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #35 on: May 02, 2018, 07:26:46 AM »
The plays that were held IG a little bit ago required 4 or 5 people to do it, so that everything made sense.

This actually required 7 PCs in total. If a single one of them had failed to show, it would have required NPC animation to pull off (or get cancelled). So when someone says that an RPT requires the availability of key players in order to pull it off, trust me it's very true.

I understand that for some newer players it may seem that every RPT is almost always held at peak hours, but there have been multiple-day RPTs where some of the fun was scheduled off peak. I seem to recall a period of time where arena events were always in the early afternoon EST. That might not suit every player's availability, but it was nice to see something being held at a rather unorthodox time for a change.

A long time ago (late 90s, early 2000s) Arm was a very, very Americentric game. I remember some staff in those days literally saying if you aren't able to login during peak hours they won't consider you for a sponsored role. Fast forward to today and it's not uncommon to see off peak merchants, nobles, and templars. I think that's pretty cool. If none of them are running off peak RPTs, maybe their underlings could suggest it. And maybe that person is you. Give it a try.

There's a whole host of players in Asia and Australia these days that didn't exist before. You used to see the who list close to 0 for large portions of the day. Nowadays I can see 20 people online during those same hours, which is nothing short of a miracle (yes, there's still a point where it's close to 0, but it's not as long of a time frame as it once was). From that angle, this isn't time to complain about things. It's hail mary time.

But, okay. Y'all want to see more things happening at odd hours of the day? Fine. Get ready for it. But also just bear in mind that the "be the change" advocates in this thread have a pretty good point. These things are often a community effort, not an individual one. So while you may be upset that there aren't as many off peak RPTs as you'd like, next time you do see one please do contribute somehow (either through your sheer presence alone, or some other IC means that make sense for your character).

Nao

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #36 on: May 02, 2018, 08:47:18 AM »
It's technically true that there have been RPTs before 8PM server, but I just checked the player announcements to make sure - the last one was an auction in October, a bit more than half a year ago (and yes, I was there and there didn't seem to be a lack of attendance). That's one out of 20 or so events in that timeframe, they are exceedingly rare. And it's not because off-peakers are just too lazy to get off their asses and organize one.

I understand that it's not possible to move them, but I don't like the dismissiveness in this thread.
A rusty brown kank explodes into little bits.

Someone says, out of character:
     "I had to fix something in this zone.. YOU WEREN'T HERE 2 minutes ago :)"

Suhuy

  • Posts: 1077
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #37 on: May 02, 2018, 09:39:48 AM »
I don't think anyone's dismissive. They just disagree with you.

I'm one of the first people to roll their eyes at the whole "be the change" line. It's a lot like the old "Find out IC" thing. A piece of advice you are almost always and only given when it is 100% not IC to even try to "find out IC" in the first place. It's a catchphrase, a buzzword used to silence anyone who wants to closely examine the dynamics of the game through discussion.

But these phrases do have their place. Just... really really rarely.

I think when it comes to wanting to run an off peak RPT, "be the change" (for all its clicheness) applies pretty darn well. And if you feel others are being dismissive by saying it, well, I'm not. Most people running RPTs put a lot of time and energy to pull them off. Sometimes a player's character dies while they are in the midst of preparing one even! I think it's understandable that most players want to maximize their efforts, rather than risk a turn out of 2 or 3 PCs only. When the who list says 20 people are online you can guarantee that at least half are the type of PC who would never have an IC reason to partake of your RPT in the first place (be they desert elf, or raider, or defiler, etc). So I don't necessarily blame the ones running RPTs for picking the times that they do. I've seen pretty large scale RPTs held during a time when the who list says 50 and only 10 PCs show up. If you only get a fifth of the population to arrive during peak hours, can you hope for more than 2 or 3 at any other hour of the day?

I'm just saying. As someone who is largely an off peaker myself, I still get why this is the case. Nevertheless, efforts are being made to bring more RPTs to the off peak world soon. Hang in there.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2609
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #38 on: May 02, 2018, 10:51:24 AM »
I woke up at like 8-9-10 am for an event once as my noble because I had agreed IC to go.

Me and the other noble showed up and literally no one else was there.

I was kinda glad because I got to go back to sleep.

Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #39 on: May 02, 2018, 11:22:07 AM »
People are allowed to disagree with your opinion on a subject and should have more respect than being told they are "dismissive" of the problem. Its not dismissive, its an abject disagreement with the notion that you are putting forth.

I think it might be pertinent to determine the difference between "RPT" and "HRPT" and when an RPT is just a small social clan gathering and when one is like the Smouldering Ivory that involves numerous clans and arena events.

It was touched on earlier that "RPTs" that are just simple gambling or card games or whatever "don't count". So is it true, then, that the complaint is that only "big RPT" events count? Because if so, I think a lot of times those do involve so many PCs that the Peak Play Time has to still include a lot of western-hemisphere players.

Like Suhuy said, there are (likely) things incoming for earlier RPTs. But I wouldn't count on them being multi-clan world changing plotlines.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Nao

  • Posts: 1939
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #40 on: May 02, 2018, 11:31:06 AM »
That 3PM RPT in October didn't seem to have an attendance problem. As long as it's not the middle of the night, people log on outside their usual times if they know something will be happening, so the pool of potential attendees isn't just the usual 20s or 30s that show up every day at that time. I know I've tried to stay up for the 3AM ones, it just tends to result in a zombie character because I'm too tired to play adequately.

I went into how the vast majority of the typical off-peak roles (indies and grunts) are in a terrible position to run events earlier. They rarely live long enough, or have the resources. Which has been shut down with 'you don't NEED to be a leader, or in a clan', with no acknowledgement of how much that actually helps. But I give up, we clearly aren't going to agree here.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 11:34:24 AM by Nao »
A rusty brown kank explodes into little bits.

Someone says, out of character:
     "I had to fix something in this zone.. YOU WEREN'T HERE 2 minutes ago :)"

SilkyBoi

  • Posts: 14
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #41 on: May 02, 2018, 11:41:52 AM »
Perhaps you should get into a leadership position to facilitate? Having been in a leadership positions, sometimes nearly unwillingly, for years upon years, it's not altogether impossible to do.

AllanakiLackey

  • Posts: 821
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #42 on: May 02, 2018, 12:17:49 PM »
I feel like the lack of off-peak RPTs is a self-perpetuating problem. If nobody makes RPTs, no one will attend them. If no one attends them, people feel like it's not worth their while to make them. If nothing is going on in the city, people don't make characters there, which are the kinds of characters who create RPTs and lead clans. But since I can't play at 1 PM ST on a weekday, I can't be the person who changes that.
4 the lulz

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Grapes

  • Posts: 416
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #43 on: May 02, 2018, 01:39:26 PM »
I happen to like off peak players, so much so I've lost countless hours of sleep staying up ALL night just to interact with them. Just me an one or two, maybe three others? That's MY ideal RPT, not a dozen people spamming says, talks, and emotes (thanks to those who use hemotes instead to cut down on screen-spam), all of whom are exchanging idle pleasantries and OMG noble everybody bow! OMG Templar! Everybody bow! OMG someone didn't bow, trip to the cuddler, then back to the party. The screen-scroll makes me nautious, and I tend to skip out early, even if it tics off my PC's employer because damnit, I was supposed to BE there.

Those RPTs, I find difficult to get into. There's too much going on to take an interest in any individual character, could be a shakespear-quality performance, but I don't want to watch the entire works run side-by-side all at once. So, what makes a good RPT? I am not sure, I'm not even sure what an RPT is besides incomprehensible word-spaghetti, if major events are any indicator.

But, I've also, seen some examples of PCs being passed up for promotion, BECAUSE they play off-peak, even seen one get off-screened because a lot of PCs took issue with their lack of availability to fulfill a specific role, and the discussion eventually resulted in the statement I sigged, which you can see below.

ETA: This isn't meant to be negative. Major events just, aren't my thing. This also isn't meant to trivialize off-peakers possibly wanting in on something that isn't my thing. I just prefer to hear about the important bits from outside sources and roleplay around them accordingly. I appreciate all the effort people put in to organize and attend major events.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 01:58:11 PM by Grapes »
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Shabago

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 237
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #44 on: May 02, 2018, 06:08:33 PM »
If you build it (hire leaders) players will come ...

That's dreadfully wrong, I'm afraid. Plenty of times there is a sponsored role with zerrro followers.

Question to staff.

if a storyteller of GMH, with no active GMH membership currently online, sees a dude in Byn who quiet clearly has nothing to do. How difficult/strange/unacceptable/discouraged is it for the GMH storyteller to use the Byn tools (ie byn npcs) to give some content for the lonely bored Byn player to do stuff with?

I can't/won't speak for EVERY ST on staff, but I know I've full endorsed messing with my clannies if I'm not online to do so, as have others.
Nessalin: At night, I stand there and watch you sleep.  With a hammer in one hand and a candy cane in the other.  Judging.

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11889
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #45 on: May 02, 2018, 06:22:21 PM »
Sorry I sounded so brusque. I do feel that it's important to consider others' possibly limited playtimes, but I am very happy to try and run all-inclusive RPTs when I can. Back when I ran a group, saturdays between 12-3 seemed to net the most success where that is concerned, though it is still touch and go.

I do want to reiterate how much work a lot of these RPTs can be, not the least in working out the scheduling. It can be a little tough to hear complaints that you didn't schedule an RPT for a different time when it was all you could do to pull the whole thing off in the first place.
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

Dar

  • Posts: 1311
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #46 on: May 02, 2018, 07:00:17 PM »
I propose another nosave command

nosave messing :)   (at first. I wrote "molestation" but as I wrote the post, it got weirder and weirder)

It's a nosave that automatically turns off whenever you log on. So by default, you are ALWAYS saving against messing.

Turning it 'off' however signals that you're bored and you're eager, hoping, and praying for the world to come alive and some bored staffer to ... umh. Well ... mess with you.

This doesnt actually protect you from being messed with. Not really. It's just when you turn it off, then you're signaling that you want it be messed with.   It's  sort of like wishing up and going "We're going on patrol. Come Kill us". Except without spamming this.

So when a storyteller is done with whatever else he's doing and is deciding what to do next.  They can just type <who> see who is flagged as mess with me and ...  go do that :).

Grapes

  • Posts: 416
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #47 on: May 02, 2018, 07:23:51 PM »
I have had plenty of occassions playing off-peak where storytellers have taken another boring, off-peak clan routine, with no more than two or three people, and POUNCED (heck, one day I was alone playing in a clan stable with dung and sawdust when an animated NPC came in to discuss an object). I've even seen it unclanned. I would think it's possible that you're even more likely to see it off-peak because there are so many fewer PCs around needing things done, or who are being watched, even if there are fewer staffers online.
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Suhuy

  • Posts: 1077
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #48 on: May 04, 2018, 02:24:07 AM »
There's too much going on to take an interest in any individual character, could be a shakespear-quality performance, but I don't want to watch the entire works run side-by-side all at once. So, what makes a good RPT? I am not sure, I'm not even sure what an RPT is besides incomprehensible word-spaghetti, if major events are any indicator.

An RPT is (or shouldn't be) as many PCs as you can cram in one room. I agree, that's not the most enjoyable way to play the game. In fact, the more PCs there are in a single room, the more inclined I am to conjure up an IC excuse to leave it because it is daunting and difficult to follow.

An RPT should ideally attract lots of players, but to a specific region of the game, not just a single room. This allows players a chance to get in on some action at their convenience. If someone held the right kind of RPT in Cenyr, people would surely travel there, and for no other reason than they know that for once they'll actually encounter other PCs there. A Cenyr RPT should populate the village, not the tavern. How do we do this?

A good five years ago staff were running what you might call an HRPT. It was held in a military camp and multiple clans were invited to travel there and stay during the build up the event. Pretty much everyone was trapped inside a small encampment for weeks of real time. There was a tavern, there was a shop or two, and a couple other rooms that could be publicly used. Some clans had their own wagon or argosy as well. But the limited space meant you were destined to encounter more PCs where ever you went. You could really feel the "multi-user" in the acronym MUD here. Honestly, I thought it was the best strategy for the game. Rather than seeing 45 people on the who list but every tavern in Allanak empty, you could see 25 people online and easily encounter a dozen or more.

To me that's what an RPT should do. Facilitate interaction. A lot of players like to roll their eyes at party and festival style RPTs since they are purely (or seemingly) only social in nature. And I can see how just cramming a single room with a bunch of PCs and dropping three casks of spirits in the room isn't the most exciting sounding way to spend your online time. But that's not the real intent behind them. I use the HRPT military camp experience above as a template for running RPTs. It was a great idea, whoever came up with it. Imagine if every single PC in the game were trapped inside Red Storm or Luir's Outpost for a week. If you don't want to be spammed by a crowded room, you still have places to go seek solitude, but seeing 50 players online would really feel like there's 50. If you wanted to be alone, you'd have that option, but if you wanted to interact you would have that opportunity around every corner.

The next time you want to run a social RPT in Red's Retreat, hire clans to have different things going on in different parts of the tavern. You've got at least 6 rooms to play with. Rather than cramming as many as you can in a single room, try instead to just fill up the tavern as a whole. Imagine how fun it would be if some crisis in the city temporarily barricaded all exits to Red's Retreat and for several days of real time everyone stuck inside had only the rooms in that tavern to move through. I'm not saying that's how the game should be at all times, I'm saying that's how it should be for a specific period of time. This kind of experience is otherwise known as an RPT.

stoicreader

  • Posts: 135
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #49 on: May 04, 2018, 11:05:09 AM »
There's too much going on to take an interest in any individual character, could be a shakespear-quality performance, but I don't want to watch the entire works run side-by-side all at once. So, what makes a good RPT? I am not sure, I'm not even sure what an RPT is besides incomprehensible word-spaghetti, if major events are any indicator.

An RPT is (or shouldn't be) as many PCs as you can cram in one room. I agree, that's not the most enjoyable way to play the game. In fact, the more PCs there are in a single room, the more inclined I am to conjure up an IC excuse to leave it because it is daunting and difficult to follow.

An RPT should ideally attract lots of players, but to a specific region of the game, not just a single room. This allows players a chance to get in on some action at their convenience. If someone held the right kind of RPT in Cenyr, people would surely travel there, and for no other reason than they know that for once they'll actually encounter other PCs there. A Cenyr RPT should populate the village, not the tavern. How do we do this?

A good five years ago staff were running what you might call an HRPT. It was held in a military camp and multiple clans were invited to travel there and stay during the build up the event. Pretty much everyone was trapped inside a small encampment for weeks of real time. There was a tavern, there was a shop or two, and a couple other rooms that could be publicly used. Some clans had their own wagon or argosy as well. But the limited space meant you were destined to encounter more PCs where ever you went. You could really feel the "multi-user" in the acronym MUD here. Honestly, I thought it was the best strategy for the game. Rather than seeing 45 people on the who list but every tavern in Allanak empty, you could see 25 people online and easily encounter a dozen or more.

To me that's what an RPT should do. Facilitate interaction. A lot of players like to roll their eyes at party and festival style RPTs since they are purely (or seemingly) only social in nature. And I can see how just cramming a single room with a bunch of PCs and dropping three casks of spirits in the room isn't the most exciting sounding way to spend your online time. But that's not the real intent behind them. I use the HRPT military camp experience above as a template for running RPTs. It was a great idea, whoever came up with it. Imagine if every single PC in the game were trapped inside Red Storm or Luir's Outpost for a week. If you don't want to be spammed by a crowded room, you still have places to go seek solitude, but seeing 50 players online would really feel like there's 50. If you wanted to be alone, you'd have that option, but if you wanted to interact you would have that opportunity around every corner.

The next time you want to run a social RPT in Red's Retreat, hire clans to have different things going on in different parts of the tavern. You've got at least 6 rooms to play with. Rather than cramming as many as you can in a single room, try instead to just fill up the tavern as a whole. Imagine how fun it would be if some crisis in the city temporarily barricaded all exits to Red's Retreat and for several days of real time everyone stuck inside had only the rooms in that tavern to move through. I'm not saying that's how the game should be at all times, I'm saying that's how it should be for a specific period of time. This kind of experience is otherwise known as an RPT.
This
Meh