Author Topic: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.  (Read 803 times)

Razzbane

  • Posts: 9
Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« on: April 30, 2018, 01:00:54 PM »
Hi folks, i'm playing already over 2 months in arma but haven't been on single event because it is always between 8-10 pm server time. Its too late for me, i understand its peak time but other timezones suffer from it. I bet arma lost dozens of players because of that. No events makes this game boring for longer period of time.

Please consider making events earlier or even later. Not always 8-10 pm all year.

MarshallDFX

  • Posts: 1514
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2018, 03:11:06 PM »
A common refrain in the last player staff meeting was to target a squad of leaders from off-peak timezones .

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7630
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #2 on: April 30, 2018, 05:54:19 PM »
Having sponsored role leaders available off-peak doesn't help at all, when the OTHER people needed to be there, are not available. Promoted leaders (as opposed to sponsored role leaders) are available when they're available. And then there's the whole coordination thing. If only a single person who's available at 6PM server time is needed to run the entire event, that's great. But when was the last time you ever saw that?

I've missed plenty because I know something that starts at 9, isn't something I'd be able to do much with. I might get to see the start of it but when stuff gets REALLY interesting an hour later? That's when I have to log out.

My only suggestion is to create an RPT, and lead it at your own convenience. Maybe join the Byn, get promoted to Sergeant, and run scheduled practice patrols. Just don't get too upset when most people can't attend. It's called peak time because that's when MOST people can attend. Not because it's a specific time of day.

If most people could attend at 4 in the morning, then peak time would be 4 in the morning.

Doesn't make it any more convenient, knowing all of this but - players schedule things when they think the "people who probably should be there most" will actually be able to be there.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5061
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #3 on: April 30, 2018, 08:19:55 PM »
As Lizzie said, it is just an unfortunate sense of timing. There is only so much to be done when you have an RPT that involves 4-5 key people who only have 11pm Server as their overlap.

I primarily play from 10am server time when people are in the single digits. It is an adjustment, but you find that anything you see another player, its an impromptu RPT.
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Nao

  • Posts: 1881
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #4 on: May 01, 2018, 04:46:05 AM »
What sort of RPT absolutely requires 4 to 5 key people, though? When I have been able to attend, I have seen at most one or two that are irreplaceable. I honestly don't get it. Would the thing get canceled if one or two suddenly got sick, ICly?

The 'whenever most people can attend' paradigm honestly sucks. Because it ends up with peak players getting it all, every single time, and everyone else being left out, every single time. What is the problem with tossing us a bone and doing this at 2 PM or so on a weekend every once in a while?

Re: Do it yourself - this is a bit of a chicken-egg problem. Players who don't attend key events are less likely to get promoted, and far less likely to have the leadership and politics experience that's required for most sponsored roles.
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Hauwke

  • Posts: 1490
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #5 on: May 01, 2018, 04:58:50 AM »
A spider nest clearing RPT needs way more than 4 or 5 guys. 4 or 5 guys is usually the losses on such a trip.

The plays that were held IG a little bit ago required 4 or 5 people to do it, so that everything made sense.

An arena RPT needs 4 or 5 people to go ahead, the guy doing the calling, and a couple fighters to make things interesting.

Conversely, there are plenty of things that only need a pair of or three people to be fun, but they are often improved for all with more people. Parties for example, sure, you only need the one guy organizing the party to be there, but show of hands: Who wants to throw a party, spending a good chunk of energy on it, for just yourself?

Nao

  • Posts: 1881
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #6 on: May 01, 2018, 05:09:37 AM »
A spider nest clearing RPT needs way more than 4 or 5 guys. 4 or 5 guys is usually the losses on such a trip.
Alright, but I don't think every single Byn or combat RPT needs to be a spider nest clearing.

Quote
An arena RPT needs 4 or 5 people to go ahead, the guy doing the calling, and a couple fighters to make things interesting.
That makes for one caller that's essential, but the fighters? You don't need those specific players, they're replaceable. You'd probably run into the chicken-egg problem again, because - people don't app gladiators if they can't be online at the RPT times. Absolutely fixable, though.

Quote
Conversely, there are plenty of things that only need a pair of or three people to be fun, but they are often improved for all with more people. Parties for example, sure, you only need the one guy organizing the party to be there, but show of hands: Who wants to throw a party, spending a good chunk of energy on it, for just yourself?
Earlier in the day, there are usually 20 to 30 people online. For a party RPT, you'd probably get some logging on that wouldn't normally be there. There's just no way you'd be all alone for a party RPT.
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Lizzie

  • Posts: 7630
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #7 on: May 01, 2018, 06:59:27 AM »
Earlier in the day, there are usually 20 to 30 people online. For a party RPT, you'd probably get some logging on that wouldn't normally be there. There's just no way you'd be all alone for a party RPT.

Then organize one when you're around. There's no rule stating that only clan leaders are allowed to organize RPTs. You don't have to be in a clan at all. There've been plenty of RPTs organized by non-clan-leaders in the past, some went well, some not so well.

Put it on the tavern board, send a note to the independent staff that you're planning it, and enjoy the results of your hard work at 2 in the afternoon when most people in the USA are at work and can't play, but most everyone else is available.

I've run card games, impromptu drinking parties, arranged sales for rich people, had an auction, all off-peak. Not at 2 in the morning, but certainly mid-day. There's no reason why you can't do the same.

I think this is where "be the change" is most appropriate.
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Razzbane

  • Posts: 9
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #8 on: May 01, 2018, 07:10:37 AM »
Guys with this attitude armageddon never will have healthy non-US amount of players. It seems arma is struggling with disease called "we don't play on off-peak hours" - thats probably one of reasons why arma playerbase is quite low. Even on peak time.

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11688
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #9 on: May 01, 2018, 07:43:00 AM »
I'm not sure what you expect peak players to do.

This sounds like an opportunity for off-peak players to take initiative and start organizing some Rpts.
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worldofsand

  • Posts: 14
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #10 on: May 01, 2018, 08:35:18 AM »
Well, it's easy to tell some new player to just organize his own RPTs. Not terribly helpful, though. When he sees that RPTs always happen in the US evening, and the game features 10-20 players during the hours he's online, it's not very productive to tell him that it's his own problem. Armageddon definitely has an off-peak problem, and the lack of off-peak players isn't the reason, it's the result. Other muds seem to have much better European and Oceanic populations. What do they do right that Arm doesn't?

I think the problem is that those parts of the day are really unsupported, yet staff support is needed for most things that matter. If you're in a clan, odds are pretty high that your clan staffer is American. I don't know how many staffers are off-peak themselves, but maybe the ones that are there need more leeway to cover more ground, like standing in as clan staff even if they aren't assigned to that clan.

It's a game where nothing happens until peak hours. Thus many don't bother to log in before then even if they could. Maybe if there was the occasional world event in the afternoon, off-peak play would feel less futile. A player RPT is all well and good, but what's missing for off-peakers isn't just parties and spider genocide, it's story. The world stands still until 8pm server time.

And I think clanned life is overly dependent on other players being around. If you try to become a soldier and you find that you're alone in the training yard most of the time, it's easy to decide that the game isn't for you. Other muds have offered ways of training that don't depend entirely on players being online at the same time as you, but that idea is somehow frowned upon here.

So I'd expect players (peak or otherwise) to be less dismissive of an obvious problem in the game.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 08:41:14 AM by worldofsand »

Riev

  • Posts: 5061
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #11 on: May 01, 2018, 09:19:54 AM »
First, can we stop this "us vs them" mentality? We're all playing the same fucking game, and the peak players aren't some elite 1% to rail against.

Second, I play while at work and VERY RARELY can I get on later or on weekends. Often when I do, I find I don't recognize half the people because we just don't play at the same times.

Third, off-peak newbies don't really have the ability to throw their own RPT because they don't often see them to know what they CAN do or what is EXPECTED. It is a little like saying "Well I rebuilt the engine block of my car, you can just do that too!" Sure, but you can't expect them to have any of the pre-req knowledge.

Fourth, plenty happens before and after peak hours, but the entire game is in a very "cooperative, behind clan doors" phase right now. Tight knit groups of people play together, and its not that they aren't OPEN to more people, but they have their "DnD Group" and they're out doing things, while some of us are waiting to be invited. Find other people waiting around, figure out what they're about, and see if they're someone you'd want to hang around with. Honestly? The movers are shakers are often too busy moving and shaking to be around to notice you're waiting to join.

Fifth, being alone in a clan is the WORST. FEELING. EVER. PERIOD. Whether you're a schedule-person or not, there is nothing more boring than doing what you're supposed to do, but nobody else is around and you can't codedly advance (a year as a Bynner should see SOME advancement). And then when you fuck off and go DO something fun, you're punished ICly because suddenly the "world came alive". Staff can support this, partially, but you know whats worse than being alone in your clan? Being alone in you clan, with a staffer who is not able to be active when you are. As I understand it, there is currently no OFFICIAL way to say "Hey, I know Brokkr can't be around when I play, and he's my staffer, so can I switch to Seidhr instead?" because Seidhr still needs to pass everything through Brokkr so he is updated.

Sixth, I just wanted to go past five.
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nauta

  • Posts: 2333
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #12 on: May 01, 2018, 09:49:45 AM »
Sixth, I just wanted to go past five.

First, I couldn't disagree more about six, but you know my views on numbers above five by now, so I'll pass it over it in silence (darüber muss man schweigen).

Second, I wrote this up a bit ago and I'm still thinking about how to present it, and it is only slightly related, but it might be good to have a HOWTO guide about RPTs: what are they? what kinds of them are there? how do I join them? how are staff involved or not involved in them? how can I host my own?

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,53552.0.html

Otherwise, a lot of good food for thought up above about the issue of peak vs. off-peak, although in my view the question should be: granted I'm an off-peaker, how do I have or make fun?  (How do I find other people?  What sorts of plots could I realistically pursue? etc.)

as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Delirium

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  • Posts: 11688
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 09:53:31 AM »
Yes, but we can't very well start playing at 3am in the morning when we have work in 5 hours.

I like the idea of having a helpfile or some documentation as Nauta describes above.
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stoicreader

  • Posts: 45
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 10:21:03 AM »
I'm an off peek player mostly, occasional prime time. Very rare.

I've never played an RPT. I don't know what the big deal is. Seems like your screen would just be spammed with words and quotes.

But also, I rarely see players let alone clans. I see this game as a solo game with occasional player interaction to drive motivations.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 783
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2018, 10:51:21 AM »
Why not some on Saturday or Sunday afternoons (server time)?

Pacific would be late morning.

Eastern would be early afternoon.

Europe would be early to mid evening.

Seems to work for all.

Riev

  • Posts: 5061
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #16 on: May 01, 2018, 11:05:40 AM »
I will say that on my last Byn Sergeant, because of my playtimes, I often tried to run RPTs at 2pm-3pm Server Time, but I also had a few people who played during that playtime to come with me. We never got the "EXTERMINATE A HUNDRED SPIDERS!!!!" RPTs, but we had a few interesting outings that got people together, killed, or otherwise.

Sometimes it just takes a leader, but having a Jal Noble on early in the week doesn't necessarily mean Jal Parties in the Sewers all day, either. Byn is easy because "everyone wants to join the Byn". Sometimes, you just need to forestall belief for a moment and get together with people you might not NORMALLY play with, and set up a card game, or negotiate a trade of a bunch of rocks you don't REALLY ned.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Razzbane

  • Posts: 9
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #17 on: May 01, 2018, 11:52:59 AM »
I've never played an RPT. I don't know what the big deal is. Seems like your screen would just be spammed with words and quotes.

But also, I rarely see players let alone clans. I see this game as a solo game with occasional player interaction to drive motivations.

Thats it. We heard legends about Rpt every weekend, but we never been on any.

I saw this game as solo game too, because there are not too many off-peak players online and if there happens someone then he/she isn't too actively rping. Luckily i joined my clan in right time and we have clan peak time muchly earlier than rest of server.

Delirium

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Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #18 on: May 01, 2018, 11:58:49 AM »
When I tried to run RPTs at midday during weekends it was touch and go how many people would attend. I'm all for trying that more consistently but on the flip side you really can't blame people for staging RPTs at the times when they are most able to run them and can expect the most reliable turnout. You cannot expect people to bend over backwards to stage RPTs at times that are not convenient to them on a regular basis.

If you do, check your expectations at the door. This is a game.

I have sympathy for off-peak players but I don't have sympathy for expecting peak players to become offpeak players because off-peak players feel lonely. Vote. Recruit your friends. Be interesting. Deal with it in a way that makes sense rather than clamoring for others to inconvenience themselves for your sake.
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Nao

  • Posts: 1881
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #19 on: May 01, 2018, 12:16:51 PM »
Put it on the tavern board, send a note to the independent staff that you're planning it, and enjoy the results of your hard work at 2 in the afternoon when most people in the USA are at work and can't play, but most everyone else is available.

Thus the "on the weekend" part of the 2PM suggestion. Some people need to work on weekends, but I don't think that's the majority and plenty of US players (maybe even most of them) would be able to make it.

Nobody is asking to move the new default time for RPTs to some off-peak timeslot. It would just be nice if the movers and shakers (who are in clanned leadership positions for 95% of RPTs...) would at least consider moving them to another timeslot on occasion. There are reasonable options outside of US work hours or the middle of the night.

Quote
Just do it yourself.
Organizing pretty much anything without a clan, or as a grunt? Gets inifintely more complicated. Outside of a clan, you have no clan boards, no ooc way to coordinate playtimes. Want two other players to get involved in the play? You have to catch them both at the same time, or pass messages back and forth, and by the time you're done, one of your unclanned buddies has probably died.

The stuff you can do without clan support and access to the clan's resources (storage space and whatnot) is also pretty limited.

As a grunt inside of a clan? You have to clear absolutely everything with your clan leaders, probably have rules against going places by yourself, and very limited options to make money.

The reason this is not happening right now is not "there's nobody online or willing to log on for an RPT".
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worldofsand

  • Posts: 14
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #20 on: May 01, 2018, 01:36:15 PM »
I don't have sympathy for expecting peak players to become offpeak players because off-peak players feel lonely. Vote. Recruit your friends. Be interesting. Deal with it in a way that makes sense rather than clamoring for others to inconvenience themselves for your sake.

Who's asking you to become an off-peak player? You're the only one who keeps bringing that up. It's needlessly confrontational. OP was asking if RPTs could sometimes be scheduled earlier in the day, because they're pretty much exclusively an 8/9/10pm thing. He's not "clamoring" for anything, he's not telling you to change your playtimes. He's pointing out a problem: RPTs pretty much aren't a thing unless you play during a specific 4-6 hour window. Surely he can start such a discussion without having to get insulted.

I'm pretty sure OP isn't talking about "RPTs" like Byn patrols and card games. Major events happen almost exclusively at 9-12pm. Surely this isn't the only time anyone can ever possibly orchestrate anything impactful. I think it's reasonable to suggest that some of these things happen on a Sat/Sun afternoon now and then. It's hard to believe that Armageddon's playerbase, in contrast with other similar games, is uniquely pigeonholed into playing only late US evenings. It seems more likely that players have become so accustomed to this that they don't consider running RPTs in other timeslots. You can't tell me it has never been possible for a templar and one or two gladiators to meet on a weekend afternoon and ring the bell. I've seen it happen, but never seen it scheduled ahead of time.

Since these things do sometimes happen randomly in off-peak hours but aren't scheduled for it, it's not something you can plan for. I think it's fair to suggest that it could be done. Maybe the guy isn't playing a character that can realistically run RPTs, so placing the entire burden of a player culture problem on him (and sending the message that "no, we don't give a fuck about you, do it all yourself") is kind of uncool. There's no real reason meaningful RPTs can't occasionally happen in the afternoon, it's just that staff and leadership players aren't in the habit.

I think it's entirely possible to do something about this trend without anyone having to bend over backwards for anybody else. I often see templars and leaders around in the afternoon, and 30ish players. Presumably there are staffers around at these times as well. It seems the only reason RPTs can't happen at 2-4pm with at least some measure of regularity is that people simply aren't in the habit of doing it. That's a culture problem and it isn't fixed by one guy. It's a community thing.
« Last Edit: May 01, 2018, 02:04:13 PM by worldofsand »

Riev

  • Posts: 5061
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #21 on: May 01, 2018, 01:46:00 PM »
Your opinion is woefully misinformed.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

worldofsand

  • Posts: 14
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #22 on: May 01, 2018, 02:07:32 PM »
Ok buddy.

Riev

  • Posts: 5061
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #23 on: May 01, 2018, 02:33:53 PM »
Ok buddy.

Not only have there been RPTs in this time slot before, but "all the important stuff that has happened in Zalanthas happened between 9pm-12am" is pure hyperbole.

It doesn't happen often, no. You might see 30 players, but 5 are in allanak, 3 are in Red Storm, 9 are desert elves, another 5 are traveling, 6 are AFK behind their compound gates...

There have been RPTs in off-peak times. It isn't a culture thing, they are just rare. Its not that we aren't "used to it", but OFTEN it requires a sponsored role/leadership position to be available and those are OFTEN more available during peak play times.

Find a staff interested in your plot. Talk with them about it, and tell them how you plan to involve other players. Pray three times to the east and hope they're not going to go AFK on you for 3 weeks. Then make an RPT. Its not hard, its JUST. RARE.
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Rahnevyn

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 959
Re: Rpt always 8-10 pm server time.
« Reply #24 on: May 01, 2018, 03:49:28 PM »
Please stay positive in this thread. I'd generally like to see suggestions about how to throw RPTs or coordinate players at off-peak times. Let's avoid telling other people they are wrong and instead focus on ways to make things better.
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