Author Topic: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.  (Read 713 times)

JustAnotherGuy

  • Posts: 2047
OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« on: April 26, 2018, 09:36:49 AM »
So lets start off with the first thing to read, the help file on the OOC command.

Quote
OOC
This command is exactly like the say command, except that where say is used to express "in character" (IC) speech, the ooc command is used for "out of character" (OOC) speech. The only other important difference is that say will always be translated for language differences and ooc will not.

Think before you use ooc. It is not intended for conveying IC information, nor for discussions of the game mechanics, nor for extended roleplaying debates, nor for getting around language barriers.

It can have a detrimental effect on those around you, jarring them from the atmosphere they've built up.

Please note that any conversation with a staff member is automatically "out of character."

Notes:
Try to use the ooc command as little as possible, preferably never. Imagine what a movie would be like if the actors and actresses kept breaking out of their roles all the time--the movie would be awful. Never ever use the ooc command to convey IC information. This is looked upon very poorly by staff members.

So IMO this should be self explanatory, but in the past and even recently I have seen examples for OOC, not just the command, but the use of Contact for OOC purposes, has been abused.  Now of course if I see blatant bad examples, I've reported it, but I really don't feel like I need to police this.

The use of OOC to my should almost be never used, and if it is, it should be briefly used.  I prefer to use the GONE command myself when I have to get up from the keyboard for a moment, as I feel it is less jarring.  I do use OOC sometime when I'm dealing with someone privately and I have to leave game quickly.  This will allow them to form a quick RP for the reasoning of the character leaving.  If it is a character I've played with a couple times, I may inform of my playtimes, so that we can continue RPing more often, but that is about it.

Recently I have seen the use of OOC to inform people of IC events.  RPTs should never be informed to people OOC, this should be IC only.  I have heard other players having this same issue.  I play the game because of the immersion, I returned to playing again so I could play an awesome immersive role.  For me to already see issues I saw from the past is upsetting to be honest.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 09:38:51 AM by JustAnotherGuy »
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deskoft

  • Posts: 333
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2018, 09:40:28 AM »
Hey! Can you give an example?

JustAnotherGuy

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Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2018, 09:53:17 AM »
Hey! Can you give an example?

I did above, but I'll give some more.

Example 1:  Using Contact on someone you don't use, then sending them a message with "OOC:  Hey, this RPT is happening blah."  -- This example is bad because this should have been found out in character.

Example 2:  Room full of people- OOC How do I craft this one item?  -- Why is this bad?  Because this is asking mechanics and also IC information.  Both against the rules listed in the help file.  Also breaks immersion of all the people in the room.

Example 3:  Bar Room full of people- OOC  How do I do this in game?  I want to be able to sheath my sword.  -- this one is the hard one as the guy on the other end is likely a newbie and really just wants to play the game.  This is where I have seen some great players take said newbie aside where no one else is, they wish up telling staff that they are going to be using OOC to help a newbie.  I have even heard of cases where staff will actually move the two to OOC rooms to facilitate helping newbie, but don't bet on this one.  The newbie is then helped, but to be honest, when I have done this in the past I give them a few help files and tell them to reach out to the helper chat or hop on Discord and ask in the helpers that there.
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nauta

  • Posts: 2335
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2018, 09:55:07 AM »
I wrote this up a few months ago about OOC etiquette.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,53505.0.html
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sleepyhead

  • Posts: 514
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2018, 09:56:12 AM »
1. I think it's totally reasonable to use OOC over the Way when necessary. Sorry, but you can't always be in the room with someone when you need to go OOC. For example, if I am asking someone over the Way to meet me for an RPT I will of course have to go [OOC: Saturday at 9 pm server]. Which brings me to the next point.

2. Obviously dropping an "ooc there is a party in the red's retreat tonight" without telling them ICly is ridiculous, but I have never seen that. What I see is OOCly telling people what Earth date/time an event is taking place. That is totally acceptable. I shouldn't have to figure out the IC date and time and then expect you to translate that into Earth time. Just let me do an "ooc this will be on Sunday at 10 pm server" and assume that ICly I told you the exact Zalanthan date and time.

3. I agree that too much OOC is a bad thing. No one should be having conversations OOC or trying to get you to comment OOCly on things that happen ICly. No one should be going OOC for extended amounts of time to tell you exactly why they need to log off or why they were afk for a minute. It's always best to stay IC when you can, but it does seem like you are bothered by things I would consider reasonable or even necessary.

For example, I go OOC to warn people about game bugs that are too jarring to mention/work around ICly. There was a nasty bug with drawing recently--hopefully fixed now--where the drawing would take on the skill level of the person who looked at it first. So if you were a master artist and drew something for someone who was a novice artist, then handed it to them without looking at it first, it would appear that the drawing was novice level. As my artist character, I went OOC to tell everyone I taught ICly about this bug. Sure, I could have ICly told them to look at their work after it was done to make sure everything was right, but then they wouldn't know the OOC importance of doing it. Less glaring bugs and weirdness with the code can be talked around ICly, so I think this is an argument in favor of taking things on a case-by-case basis and just trying to be prudent about it.

JustAnotherGuy

  • Posts: 2047
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2018, 09:57:05 AM »
I wrote this up a few months ago about OOC etiquette.

http://gdb.armageddon.org/index.php/topic,53505.0.html

Your section on OOC with newbies is great, I agree with you.  This is more though on the topic of OOC being abused in general, and most of the time not by newbies.
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deskoft

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Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2018, 10:28:29 AM »
I haven't seen much abuse of the OOC except for things that are strictly necessary. I think the RPT one is perfectly acceptable, but the line should be kept as minimal. The only exception is scheduling RPT times. It's horrible to have to take your calculator out and see how many days earlier in the week this event is or what ever. So I just comply to going to OOC to discuss dates. Reminding people of dates is also okay in my opinion. FOR EXAMPLE:

tell person Yeah, we're shivving the sharp year in two weeks [OOC: 24/1 3 AM Server Time].

The benefit of this format is that people who don't understand the tongue don't know the date, and also it's minimum OOC.

Regarding newbies, I try to keep IC but honestly being like "hey, you just have to LOOK INto the CAGE" is not my style. I will just go "ooc HELP LOOK" or what ever. I don't think this breaks immersion as long as you're not breaking IC communication. If you break the third wall and are like "ooc Hey! Welcome to the game! I hope you are having fun. You can type look in cage..." well, that is different. Here, you're pretty much acting like a helpfile. "ooc HELP LOOK" or "ooc SYNTAX: look in <container>" If they counter-ask a question, I will either point them to the main page to ask questions or answer and append "Back to IC!" every time they ask a question. So if they ask another question, I will put the "back to IC!" quickly again. Eventually, the player might understand that OOC is not the medium for questions.

Using it to ask questions that can be asked ICly (aka not syntax-wise) is definitely not nice. I would report it!

Riev

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Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2018, 10:42:48 AM »
Isn't this just a vague-posting shit thread about issues you've seen with people using OOC that you don't agree with? Is that something we can DO now?

I don't give three shits if OOC is "jarring" to you (not you, specifically, just a royal you). Sometimes it is necessary. If I saw someone saying "OOC send me your discord" then I might complain. But its not my job to police that, and staff should be monitoring all use of the OOC command for this kind of thing anyway.

So this isn't etiquette, this is "Some people do it bad and I can't call them out."
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JustAnotherGuy

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Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2018, 10:44:25 AM »
My example is dealing with random person that doesn't know anything about the event IC already, and has no reason to know about it.  Anyhow, per the rules, OOC should almost never be used and if there is a clan RPT going on, use the Clan Forums, that is what they are used for.  Telling someone that you're not certain knows about an RPT, that isn't a good time to do it.  There are many methods of passing information in an OOC manner about events.  That is one of the main reasons about the Forums and also the Boards In-Game.
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JustAnotherGuy

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Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2018, 10:45:26 AM »
Isn't this just a vague-posting shit thread about issues you've seen with people using OOC that you don't agree with? Is that something we can DO now?

I don't give three shits if OOC is "jarring" to you (not you, specifically, just a royal you). Sometimes it is necessary. If I saw someone saying "OOC send me your discord" then I might complain. But its not my job to police that, and staff should be monitoring all use of the OOC command for this kind of thing anyway.

So this isn't etiquette, this is "Some people do it bad and I can't call them out."

And this is why crap is the way it is, because people don't care about others experiences.
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WarriorPoet

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Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2018, 11:09:55 AM »
This is going to go grrrreat...

I am fine with ooc, so long as it is kept to a minimum.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5157
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2018, 12:02:08 PM »
Isn't this just a vague-posting shit thread about issues you've seen with people using OOC that you don't agree with? Is that something we can DO now?

I don't give three shits if OOC is "jarring" to you (not you, specifically, just a royal you). Sometimes it is necessary. If I saw someone saying "OOC send me your discord" then I might complain. But its not my job to police that, and staff should be monitoring all use of the OOC command for this kind of thing anyway.

So this isn't etiquette, this is "Some people do it bad and I can't call them out."

I came off hot, because its early, but its also a problem that we, as players and readers of the GDB, aren't ALL EXPERIENCING. Its hard for me to suggest any changes to OOC if I've never seen it go wrong, and everyone I know hasn't seen it go wrong.

If use of OOC is such an issue, staff should be monitoring its use. If it is being used in PSI's, there is no reason staff can't monitor PSI and grep only lines that have "OOC" in them.
And this is why crap is the way it is, because people don't care about others experiences.
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Lizzie

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Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2018, 12:22:46 PM »
I find constant typos and then OOC corrections of the typos, and entire OOC discussions about whether or not they need to correct the typo, much more jarring than mentioning the real-world time of an IC event.

Things like:

>The tressy tressed person her blue skirt billows in the air while standing.

>The tressy tressed person oocs, "oh I meant @ instead of !skirt sorry!"

>The elf oocs, "yeah we knew what you meant, you don't have to correct it."
>The tressy tressed person oocs, "Sorry didn't have my morning coffee lol"
>The elf oocs, "can we get back to IC please?"
>The green-eyed man oocs, "wtf lighten up"

This "kind" of thing happens more often than is comfortable. It doesn't need to happen at all.
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deskoft

  • Posts: 333
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2018, 12:26:55 PM »
Oh, yes, I have seen those. I am fine with like "ooc he*" when he typoes she. Or even "ooc ignore" when you write something wrong. I favor more something like:

say Teh man is here.

And immediately after

say The man is here.

Everyone will get it was a typo.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 6063
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2018, 01:38:45 PM »
Quote
I don't give three shits if OOC is "jarring" to you (not you, specifically, just a royal you). Sometimes it is necessary. If I saw someone saying "OOC send me your discord" then I might complain. But its not my job to police that, and staff should be monitoring all use of the OOC command for this kind of thing anyway.

I do believe the whole point is that what is 'necessary' is often completely unnecessary, and openly stated as such in the helpfile.  The same way I get irritated with the 'bend everything just to make a newbie comfortable before you start hitting them with harshness' mentality, I -do- get irritated with the looseness of the 'It's just a game, loosen up' mentality.

However, where the vast majority of players feel that way, and I believe much of staff does as well, I do agree that it's just not my job to police it.  To a small degree, I might even just do as the Romans do, even if I don't find it to be a particularly shining spot of the game; people can go anywhere for a casual-air game.  Our niche was and should remain being the step above.  *shrug*
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The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 872
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2018, 02:01:50 PM »
OOC is almost never needed. Perhaps for scheduling if you can't get around it or a small "please submit a request for board access" when recruiting someone. "Next week at about this time" is better than "OOC lets do it tomorrow at 10!".

Most of the time OOC is used, it didn't have to be. I wouldn't be opposed to removing it all together or taking it from anyone that isn't in a leadership position. I would love to see any argument removed from the 'gone' command as well.
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sleepyhead

  • Posts: 514
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2018, 03:12:31 PM »
I've never seen anyone invite anyone to an RPT using exclusively the ooc command. That sounds a bit like something you saw IG recently that caused you to want to post here, but I don't think that practice is running rampant.

The worst offenses I've seen were always people trying to have a conversation with me or others OOC about some IC mistake or jarring thing that happened, or going into way too much detail about why they were just afk. I hate that.

But let's not be ridiculous. You don't have to hold an official leadership position to need ooc every now and then. For example, the serious drawing bug I had to tell people about. An emergency ooc about having to quit out when you're locked in someone's apartment and don't have the time to come up with a sufficiently urgent-sounding IC excuse. Helping newbies, of course.

Recently I had to go OOC with some specifics about the brew command. I had to tell someone to use the "analyze" command rather than "taste" to determine the taste of a tablet, because "taste" gives a message that almost makes you think it's the right command, but doesn't give you any information like "analyze" does. From what they told me, it was clear that they had been trying to use "taste," which is a mistake I had made previously. I suppose I could have said ICly "Don't just taste it; make sure you /analyze/ the flavors," but is that REALLY less jarring than going OOC and saying "try the analyze command"? To me, that's a lot more immersion-breaking AND less clear.

So no, let's not go to an extreme about it. If you see someone doing too much OOC just politely tell them you'd like to limit OOC. If they don't stop, send in a player complaint.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 03:14:30 PM by sleepyhead »

Large Hero

  • Posts: 595
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #17 on: April 26, 2018, 03:31:34 PM »
I think it's fine to use the OOC command to:

* arrange RPTs or meeting times. Doing otherwise leads to the "the meeting will be in two weeks and three days," which can lead to misunderstandings, especially with new players. Our characters have a better sense of Zalanthan time than we do, and using the OOC command here helps bridge that gap.

* some teaching of new players (i.e. OOC check out help contact, and be careful, your character can pass out if you use the Way too much). This is especially appropriate in cases where the new player's character would know the thing, even though the player may not.

If you are an adult in Zalanthas, you would know that you can pass out from the Way. So it's helpful to tell that to the player when their character keeps passing out without understanding why.

* use OOC over the Way, especially when coordinating RPTs, for the reasons outlined above. As sleepyhead said, sometimes you are not in the same room with a character when it is appropriate to use OOC.



Uses of the OOC command that I find jarring:

* typo corrections: I know that you didn't mean to type "emote simles". It's okay to leave it and move on. "ooc lol I meant smiles sorry!" is distracting. If you must fix it, just inputting another emote, i.e. "emote smiles", is better.

* random comments.  For example, recently, a group of characters was talking about an NPC wearing a certain piece of clothing. One of the players then offered their OOC thoughts about the appropriateness of the clothing, whether the NPC was bugged, etc. Please don't do that. The OOC command is not a chat channel.

* reacting to IG events. If something very funny happens IG, please don't "ooc LOL :)". Express that humor in your character's reaction, if it's appropriate!

* extensive detail in the gone command.  "gone 5 minutes" is okay. I would prefer not to see "gone because the doorbell just rang and then I have to wash some dishes, sorry!!"



All the above said, I don't think we have to be inquisitorial or curmudgeonly about it. Everybody slips sometimes; I've used OOC sometimes when I shouldn't have. We don't need to restrict the OOC command to certain players.

Let's just try to keep the high standard of immersion our game is known for, to paraphrase Armaddict, and be chill with each other.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2018, 03:35:18 PM by Large Hero »
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ShaLeah

  • Posts: 5140
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2018, 05:09:04 PM »
I'm a big proponent of "Lead by example" so I don't like using OOC unless I have to. That said!
I've broken character when I shouldn't have.  I've flat out told people they're fucked up and wrong when they've done things ICly that blurr lines or accuse other players of things, I'd done it to tell people the proper procedure for things,  to help noobs,  to coordinate RPTs and even to LOL things. I'm gonna say 99% of those COULD have been avoided completely.

Someone taught me. Lots of someones taught me. Did that make them RP police? Maybe.  Gotta learn somehow.  Discussions her are better than discussions in game... via the ooc command.
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CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1100
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2018, 01:54:04 AM »
When the Byn was reopened one of the conventions introduced by Krrx was to emote feeling unwell or claim to be sunstruck when you were having connection issues.  More recently, people talk about being "on gate duty" etc.

These specific examples might not fit with every clan but if you are in a clan or are leading one it may be worthwhile to post about these conventions in your clan forum.  Just cover the basics like what does "same time next week" mean, what is your clan's equivalent of "gate duty", and what is your clan's equivalent of "sunstruck" (maybe if you're in the 'rinth it's a bit jarring to complain about the sun).  It can save you a couple OOCs and the concomitant context switching.
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Delirium

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Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2018, 09:46:07 AM »
I don't like using IC dialogue to convey OOC intent. That breaks the storybook for me. I'd rather use a brief OOC.

Saying "You may want to MOUNT up and TITLE your mount, Runner" makes far less sense than "OOC: use 'title' while mounted to name your mount".

That said, I dislike OOC conversations and engage in them only when the matter simply cannot be addressed in an IC fashion.

Even if you don't personally mind free usage of OOC, it's not hard to respect those who prefer to strictly limit it.
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James de Monet

  • Posts: 3325
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #21 on: April 27, 2018, 02:57:17 PM »
I feel like if youíre bothered by the use of OOC, also letting yourself be bothered by the use of the Way for (appropriate) OOC is counterproductive.  You might not like it when they do it to you, but think of all the times you didnít have to see the OOC because they chose that (more discreet) method with someone else in a crowded room.

We can all police up our borderline uses of OOC a little, but we can police up our reactions to othersí different, but allowable play styles too.
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ghanima

  • Posts: 78
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2018, 11:23:09 AM »
We can all police up our borderline uses of OOC a little, but we can police up our reactions to othersí different, but allowable play styles too.

So well said.

Veselka

  • Posts: 675
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2018, 12:56:16 PM »
The most jarring OOCs to me are typo fixes -- If we're talking about jarring me out of the moment, when we're in the middle of a scene and the OOC for 'the, not teeh' pops  out.

As far as OOCing for RPT scheduling, I'm sorry, I won't be guesstimating with IC Weeks and Hours. I live a very busy life, and if I need to schedule something in advance, it's to the hour and minute. I need to know if it's PST or EST, or GMT. I keep it very brief  (1-2 OOCs) and then back to IC. I think that's perfectly reasonable, and this typically only happens between Leader PCs behind closed doors.
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Dar

  • Posts: 1240
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2018, 01:00:45 PM »
I'll be honest. The most jarring thing out of that whole use of OOC is this very thread.

You think someone is acting in a way he shouldnt? Just send in a complaint. There is nothing malicious about it. It's just a way for a staffer to talk to someone privately to help them play better, or be less disruptive to others.


This thread is cringe worthy. In my opinion.

ghanima

  • Posts: 78
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2018, 01:18:13 PM »
I'll be honest. The most jarring thing out of that whole use of OOC is this very thread.

You think someone is acting in a way he shouldnt? Just send in a complaint. There is nothing malicious about it. It's just a way for a staffer to talk to someone privately to help them play better, or be less disruptive to others.


This thread is cringe worthy. In my opinion.

This thread is definitely very cringe worthy, but I don't think sending in complaints because someone OOCed "oops, I meant the word except not accept, my bad" is a valuable use of staff's time. It's probably not a valuable use of a player's time either.

Sometimes OOC is used more than it should be. Sometimes players don't RP wounds as well as they should. Sometimes players don't RP their race as super awesomely as you might like.

And sometimes everyone needs to just take a chill pill and work on their coping skills.

Refugee

  • Posts: 1726
Re: OOC and You! Lets discuss etiquette of using OOC.
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2018, 01:51:20 PM »
The most jarring OOCs to me are typo fixes -- If we're talking about jarring me out of the moment, when we're in the middle of a scene and the OOC for 'the, not teeh' pops  out.

I don't have a problem with most of the OOC people do in the game, I think it's reasonable and people police themselves.  But please don't use OOC to correct your spelling unless it's something so atrocious that it would be impossible to know what you meant.  People understand about typos and misspellings and just go on with the RP without a hitch.  I think when this is done it's usually out of a wish to make sure the listeners realize that you the player actually know the proper spelling.  That's not important to the presentation of the idea you're trying to describe and the story you're trying to keep going.  Misspelled words are something I can't just skip over, my eye and attention are drawn to them, but by going OOC you've tripped me twice.  The first time is just a mistake but the second is purposeful.  There's no reason for it.

Having said that, it's still not such a big deal that it ruins my fun, so if you need to do it for some reason, ok.  :) 

chrisdcoulombe

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