Author Topic: Climbing to Drov and back.  (Read 798 times)

Doublepalli

  • Posts: 281
Climbing to Drov and back.
« on: April 15, 2018, 04:58:12 AM »
So with master climb and climbing gear unemcubered, I have witnessed three fails to catch your falls back to back.

Is climb code broken? Maybe a revamp? Thoughts?

LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 348
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #1 on: April 15, 2018, 09:42:55 AM »
It doesn't seem broken to me, it just seems like at Master you see the full benefit of the climb skill. From what I've seen from any of the subs with climb you just don't get anywhere close to that benefit which with a skill like climb can often lead to your character's death or at the very least a very bad fall. So it's not that it's broken it's just that the gulf between a certain guild vs. the subguilds is just too wide. So for me, it's working as intended, just the subs aren't good enough to match or even get close to that guild, even on subs that you would think would be better at climbing than they actually are.
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nauta

  • Posts: 2335
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #2 on: April 15, 2018, 09:53:58 AM »
My evidence is based on (obviously) my limited experience, but I would agree with OP: the scramble for purchase code (when you press 'up' to catch your fall) doesn't seem to work as often as I'd expect granted a skill level.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 348
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2018, 10:23:00 AM »
Oh the scramble thing? If I'm falling, I usually don't even attempt it because the negatives outweigh the benefits. You lose a ridiculous amount of HP and stun when you attempt it which could actually end up the cause of your death just for attempting it. You lose a little too much of both in the attempt. So a straight fall at full health might result in a 90-99% loss of health plus a knockout in the best case scenario. A fall plus a failed scramble....you're probably in the negative. A fall plus two scrambles....you dead. We're talking a three or more room fall here.

I'm not a numbers person so I'm not going to throw out any hard numbers here because there's too many race and stat variables here. I'm just speaking as a player that has had her fair share of falls and enough deaths from falls to speak on it.

So yeah, climbing has always been a risky proposition and understandably so. I do think the scramble thing is worth taking a look at.
Just like the white winged dove,
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nauta

  • Posts: 2335
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #4 on: April 15, 2018, 10:32:33 AM »
With scramble, what I'd like to see (and if this is in place, then wooyeah!):

1. The chance of catching your fall (by hitting 'up') be the same chance of climbing in the first place, or at the very least keyed to your skill level: easier if you are master, and harder if you are novice, and hardest still if you don't even have the skill.

2. The damage that you take if you fail scrambling for purchase be a function of your skill level: you take the least amount of damage if you are master, more if you are novice, and the most if you don't even have the skill.

as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Eyeball

  • Posts: 802
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #5 on: April 15, 2018, 10:45:22 AM »
1. The chance of catching your fall (by hitting 'up') be the same chance of climbing in the first place, or at the very least keyed to your skill level: easier if you are master, and harder if you are novice, and hardest still if you don't even have the skill.

Realistically though, how many climbers have you heard of catching themselves once they've fallen any significant distance down a cliff face. By that point, they've built up a lot of kinetic energy and it's really hard nigh impossible to stop oneself.

If they're sliding along a steep slope, maybe.

Using a rope should greatly increase success when climbing, regardless of falling or not, to the point where even someone with mediocre climbing skill should show success most of the time. But the game needs to accommodate this somehow, such as by allowing one to tie a rope to oneself and an anchor point. Difficult to do with the room-based code, I expect. A multi-room rope ladder was made at one point, but it requires the staff to actually modify rooms to simulate it working. Maybe the bonus for holding a rope should be a lot bigger.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2018, 10:47:36 AM by Eyeball »

BrainySmurf

  • Posts: 44
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #6 on: April 27, 2018, 02:06:51 AM »
Reviving a dead thread.

In my experience, scrambling is not tied to the climb skill in any way shape or form. Scrambling is a strength based check. It has little or nothing to do with climb. If you are a super agile climby person you're less likely to fail, but if you're not super buff, y'ain't going to succeed a scramble even with your master skill.

I have not succeeded on scrambling on a character with low strength before, regardless of their climb skill. My clunky human warrior decked in plate with no climb skill but exceptional human strength never failed a scramble, once.

Harmless

  • Posts: 2722
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #7 on: June 09, 2018, 11:11:08 AM »
That explains a lot of my own experiences with falls and scrambling. Also that doesnt really make that much sense. Maybe scrambles should benefit from (specific?) Climbing equipment more and maybe climb skill should factor into it. Knowing the strategy will help some climbing PCs stay alive but I don't think I like this system that much as is. I would think the most important factor in scrambling is rope or a sturdy claw like device. I also think successful scrambling should injure you also -- you just stopped a dead drop or tumble with a braking force of some kind. Maybe failed scrambles should do much less damage -- your rope didn't catch a jutting ledge or brick, or your hand grazed the wall or whatever -- 5-10 hp lost and maybe trivial stun. But when you succeed in braking the fall after going a few rooms down? Sure, your rope/arm caught the ledge but your arm dislocated in the act.
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Rokal

  • Posts: 434
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #8 on: July 19, 2018, 08:01:05 AM »
I've always seen climbing at master as one of those things you're damn good at, but to truly be risk free. You.. simply need tools.

the various races aren't exactly built to pull a spiderman, zipping up and down vertical surfaces with ease. In my experience even a pair of climbing gloves go a long way.

What would be nice on the addition to that rope idea is that instead of massively increasing success chance, is that if you fail, it stops the fall after a room or two as the rope goes tight, catching you (of course, if you're near the ground already, its gona hurt) a sort of 'automatic' purchase. This can cause degradation to the rope (with enough causing it to snap) and some damage to the character to simulate swinging around and maybe hitting a wall/cliff side. with less damage compared to scrambling.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2018, 08:04:35 AM by Rokal »

tapas

  • Posts: 273
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #9 on: July 19, 2018, 01:32:41 PM »
Climb code probably deserves a fresh overhaul. Hopefully one that's less binary and less painful for a single fail.

Maybe failing a climb save reduces stamina by a fixed amount (20-40). And you only fall when stamina reaches zero?

Dar

  • Posts: 1240
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #10 on: July 19, 2018, 02:41:36 PM »
Imagine of ropes had a script that would cause you to autosucceed a scramble check at the cost of rope quality

Brokkr

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  • Posts: 435
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2018, 03:06:35 PM »
To the OP point, what they are witnessing could be due to two things.

First, you can't climb, at all, in rooms that are essentially mid-air.

Second, the further you fall the harder it is going to be to catch yourself.

These are typically the issues we see when folks send in requests like this.

Oh, and riding over something and thus not getting a climb check at all in that first room, cause you are riding, not climbing.

Rokal

  • Posts: 434
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2018, 03:28:27 PM »
Imagine of ropes had a script that would cause you to autosucceed a scramble check at the cost of rope quality

And those 'Oh crap" moments when you get 'Your rope snaps! You fall!"

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2018, 05:48:49 PM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:22:34 AM by Molten Heart »

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 9558
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2018, 01:55:47 AM »
I mean if they were less expensive... and only a maybe, then. Sounds like punishing people for using their skills, Molten. Craft tool degradation at least dents the indie merchant millionaire phenomenon, what's climb tool degradation add?

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #15 on: July 23, 2018, 02:00:05 AM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:22:18 AM by Molten Heart »

MeTekillot

  • Posts: 9558
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #16 on: July 23, 2018, 02:03:05 AM »
Bonking somebody on the head and stealing their gear stimulates money spending. In my opinion and experience, maintenance spending just ends up a pain in the ass rather than stimulating gameplay.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #17 on: July 23, 2018, 02:25:54 AM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:22:10 AM by Molten Heart »

John

  • Posts: 4065
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #18 on: July 23, 2018, 05:30:00 AM »
Do weapons still break?
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valeria

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Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #19 on: July 23, 2018, 11:01:47 AM »
Last I knew they can, yes.

Rokal

  • Posts: 434
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #20 on: July 23, 2018, 05:06:02 PM »
I think weapons can break but its really rare.

I have never seen it happen.

As for climb tool degradation, Met. All i suggested was ropes degrading when they, as a new idea auto-catch purchase for you in the case they fall, with enough degradation causing the rope to snap. Think of it as the rope  tightening and stopping your fall.

Harmless

  • Posts: 2722
Re: Climbing to Drov and back.
« Reply #21 on: July 31, 2018, 02:19:13 AM »
I propose either your 'climb' skill, or maybe your agility, or perhaps both, have a chance to help mitigate at least some fall damage when you fall or get thrown off some shit.

this would work.

just putting a relevant post into a relevant thread.
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