Author Topic: What You Liked About Tuluk  (Read 3523 times)

Cind

  • Posts: 1598
What You Liked About Tuluk
« on: February 07, 2018, 07:54:22 AM »

A memory that stands out to me is the levies. I -loved- being in the levies, I was a blonde human woman named Kaga who was an unmanifested rukkian, hated the south, and became a 'professional' grebber for House Dasari and was privy to an interesting secret plot there.

The way most people play, they either want to be cockroach-eating elves with skellebained knives or ultra-rich folk who eat cake, and staff makes things for them and not much for the poor, boring, uninteresting common folk I like to play, so getting the levies sounded pretty awesome and I immediately signed up. I did not regret it for a moment, even when manifesting led me to flee the city.

The way the levies were set up worked perfectly if you wanted to be a nobody commoner citizen who regularly played with dirt as a child, but weren't actually responsible for any deaths. I had and still have a touchy schedule that doesn't allow me to play at peaktime, and no one cared or looked for me because of it. I showed up to training, I took advantage of the one minor advantage the levies give you, which would have been nothing to someone with a real job but was the world to a nobody like me. My Dasari noble did not care that I had to run off twice a week, in fact he loved it. It was new and awesome, I loved it, go join the levies.

Tuluk was also the only place I liked playing an unmanifested witch in. It was, when you think about it, the only place they seem to try not to bother you OOCly about it in. I guess they don't like unfair tavern deaths any more than the next person. Its really fun, though, you're sort of sniggering behind your keyboard in a way that gets dampened when you're doing it in Allanak.

I loved the cotton fields. I'm a big knitter, and one of my first solid pcs as a newbie would spend much of her time picking cotton to either sell or make her own clothes with. I miss this part of the game, dunno if you can actually still get cotton bolls and equipment for spinning and weaving it. The cotton fields also served as a grebber balance; do you want to walk through the ruins to a mostly unoccupied area of the old city to make more money, or do you want to greb in the clay pit where its shadier and a bit cooler? I mostly used the clay pits back when that barely made enough for your food and water, so back then it was a real choice. I remember that cotton-weaving newbie would go to the pits, make enough for a cup of milk in the Firestorm every day, and sit in the Firestorm at night with no particular personality because I was pretty new to roleplaying.

Speaking of Dasari, I miss that too. I wasn't particularly useful because anyone who wasn't wearing heels could fill my position, but I was at least available around 12-3 on some days and could get in on some conversations and go search for this or that plant if needed. My noble made time to talk with me and it was refreshing to be a part of something bigger than myself for a change. I realize now that he probably logged in when he realized I was available during middays and I would kudos him except I don't remember anything about what he looks like.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

boog

  • Posts: 10792
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #1 on: February 07, 2018, 03:27:04 PM »
Everything.

I miss it so, so much.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
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There is only one boog.

Strongheart

  • Posts: 235
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2018, 03:27:47 PM »
Maybe you folks should go there, check things out.
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Miradus

  • Posts: 2098
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2018, 06:19:10 PM »
Maybe you folks should go there, check things out.

It's virtually not in existence. Gates closed. Isn't it?

Delirium

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  • Posts: 11901
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2018, 06:22:43 PM »
It's codedly not in existence. Virtually it's still there. A giant white elephant stomping around the room.

Gates closed.

;D
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

Refugee

  • Posts: 1727
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2018, 07:07:25 PM »
There was always something to do.  People got together and did things, almost every day.  I never spent hours sitting alone in a bar.  There was more of a feeling of unity, whereas in Nak every group seems more isolated and autonomous instead of part of something larger.  Between hunting and exploring the lands around Tuluk and socializing inside the city, I found a way to be immersed for many hours a day every day.

Maybe it just was because I was new and everything was shiny and exciting.





boog

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Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #6 on: February 07, 2018, 07:26:21 PM »
There was always something to do.  People got together and did things, almost every day.  I never spent hours sitting alone in a bar.  There was more of a feeling of unity, whereas in Nak every group seems more isolated and autonomous instead of part of something larger.  Between hunting and exploring the lands around Tuluk and socializing inside the city, I found a way to be immersed for many hours a day every day.

Maybe it just was because I was new and everything was shiny and exciting.

It wasn't because you were new. You're right in your assessment!
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
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There is only one boog.

BadSkeelz

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Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #7 on: February 07, 2018, 10:20:27 PM »
It was The Other. You knew things were actually happening on the other side of the world, things that might actually impact you some day.
janeshephard: You really think BadSkeelz understands the concept of Wine In Front of me? This guy shot me as a townie when he felt threatened. The man's a neandrathal.

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Grogerif

  • Posts: 63
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #8 on: February 07, 2018, 10:25:00 PM »
I liked it because it wasn't Allanak.  It was someplace to go and not have keep as much OOC knowledge secret.  I always rolled in Tuluk when my Allanak character died, and vice versa.  (With breaks for desert elves.)  Almost didn't come back to the game when I found out it was closed.

tortall

  • Posts: 2250
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #9 on: February 07, 2018, 11:24:52 PM »
I really loved the culture there. Nak is very in your face and brutal. Tuluk was playacting like everything is happy and being EXTREMELY brutal on the sly. I was never good at the latter part, but I always enjoyed the former.
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Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2018, 09:55:17 AM »
I played primarily in Tuluk, but there was a lot that it struggled with. But this is a positive thread.

I liked that the "quarters" of the city were very clearly defined and mostly autonomous. Save a little exploration, you could live most of your natural life in the Warrens without ever needing to explore the Noble area, or even Freil's Rest.

I liked that they were "at war" with Allanak, but had refugees playing in drum circles. They made the appearance that they were all-inclusive, but really they just kept the "good people" and cut out the rot.

I liked when there was UnderTuluk, so there was a place to not play a "thief", but a place to play someone who didn't buy into all the happy-on-the-outside crap that was spewed above ground. It unfortunately turned into a haven for magickers but it had potential.

Again, because it bears repeating: Defined quarters. The ability to know, clearly, you are in the Poet's Circle. In Allanak, I feel like everything is "the bazaar, the commoner's quarter, the noble's quarter, the 'rinth". And that's it. The bazaar and commoner's quarter feel like the same "place" in the city. Tuluk made you feel that you had just walked down a long road and came upon a "new" village in the city.

Tunnels. :)
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Malken

  • Posts: 9101
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2018, 10:38:55 AM »
Tuluk after midnight, featuring boog.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1956
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2018, 10:45:57 AM »
.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2018, 03:34:51 AM by Molten Heart »

Tiktak

  • Posts: 435
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2018, 09:52:39 PM »
Bards and the Bardic Circle, the Artists and their Licenses, the culture, the Sunking spice being legal to commoners, communal cooking area, Arena bar, the Teahouse, more varied noble Houses with broader representation, and more. I could ramble for hours. I miss it.

Cind

  • Posts: 1598
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2018, 01:21:38 AM »
I loved how bards could hold status in a way that wasn't really available to other people. Perhaps the closest thing to them would be a House mastercrafter. It was like membership in a medieval guild.

In medieval Europe, a man who wanted to be a member of a knitting guild would train as a current member's apprentice for six years (I mean, come on, back then they lived to about twenty so that's a bit steep) and when he was ready to join he had six months to start and finish certain items, like a tapestry and a pair of socks (the item number was around five I think) and they had to show their best work. If it was deemed suitable, they would join as a full member. Women couldn't join but if a member died and his wife needed income she was allowed to try to get in. The Rusalka circle reminded me of the fact that apart from that particular situation, women were only allowed to join rosary-making guilds. Its a complex industry of skilled labor that affects a lot of local people.

The Bardic Circle had requirements like the medieval guilds that might reasonably take as much time and certainly took skill to join and it was unique in the world for this. In a game where the empty spaces in a culture are necessary for creativity, it was kind of cool to see a master bard walk by and know they worked really hard to get to where they were, in a way that doesn't dampen the game's potential for creativity. I'm not sure how relevant this is to the discussion but I didn't want to delete it.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

deskoft

  • Posts: 350
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2018, 01:51:39 AM »
Yeah for me Tuluk was a really good way to still play city politics without having to play with the same characters; I actually loved that a lot, among many things in the culture.

Yam

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Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #16 on: February 14, 2018, 12:42:13 AM »
The following error or errors occurred while posting this message:
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AdamBlue

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Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #17 on: February 14, 2018, 01:49:19 AM »
It was a place to explore when you tired of the Allanaki politics on any character. It was also 'wealthy', considering it was perched right by the Grey and had access to many different types of things. Clan headquarters were bigger and better, even, and it was always a different conversation dealing with Northern Templars compared to Southern Templars. It was a large, amazing bastion for culture that let you know that you really were part of a bigger world even if you were outside Allanak besides the tiny outposts where people got bored quickly and moved on.
I'll give you a quick example; The Byn.
When you were a Bynner, back when there was still a Northern compound, you really felt like you were always 'close to home'.  Either you were close to the northern home or the southern home, but you could reasonably stay in the North for a while and hang out. The place was nicer, even the food, something as simple as the fact that you could get bread from the northern barracks while in the south there was always a shortage, was a nice touch. And with the economy being different than it was in Allanak, there was ALWAYS money to be made. Nowadays, Morins is nothing in comparison, and nobody cares about it much, and it lacks any kind of meaningful history or interesting character archtypes, just 'lol loggers and soldiers'.

Tuluk being gone is like downsizing a company because you're not making enough money. At first, it works because you don't need to pay as many people as much money, but then after a while you realize that you're not doing as much as you could if you had more people. And then everything is just worse as a result. Sure, it'll stay afloat, but it will never be as good as it was.

boog

  • Posts: 10792
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #18 on: February 14, 2018, 09:24:48 PM »
Tuluk after midnight, featuring boog.

 ;)

Sometimes, a person is only as good as their counterpart, and I felt like Tuluk definitely had the best of the crop when it came to said counterparts.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
Quote from: Tuannon
There is only one boog.

The Lonely Hunter

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Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #19 on: February 15, 2018, 10:11:53 PM »
I liked that it was a neat little hunting outpost. I liked the 'feeling' of having the rebels right there always trying to sabotage something or 'free' the oppressed Tuluk. I liked that there was an occasional noble or Templar stationed up there but only having one or two made them feel isolated from their powerbase.

I liked Tuluk before it was...revamped.
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Cind

  • Posts: 1598
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #20 on: February 16, 2018, 03:23:39 AM »
People seemed to have really enjoyed the Rebellion Tuluk, I noticed. Maybe we need to do something like that again. If you re-open Tuluk right now without changing anything, I think you could do something effectively similar.

Elves up there felt like they had more clout because the Akai had regular contracts with the city that involved work they could do in broad daylight. They had that protected-skilled-artisan thing going on. Whenever I played an elf there the Akai would approach me with offers of work. I kind of liked that. You could both play an elf and have a safe, protected job. I never accepted their offers, but I think I would if I got a chance to play there again.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

spacewars

  • Posts: 803
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #21 on: February 16, 2018, 12:04:24 PM »
As most have said Tuluk had a lot of culture to it. And as others have said it gave an appearance of Happy all the time, but what most that did not take the time to play there. Tuluk had a dark side to it behind the scene of the public eyes. Things happened in the shadows..... I miss Tuluk

Veselka

  • Posts: 730
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #22 on: February 16, 2018, 05:51:13 PM »
I think Tuluk would be great if it were just less complicated.

Less documentation, more precise documentation.

Fewer Noble Houses with fewer niches. More Nobles in those fewer Noble Houses.

One Templar Order, with both men and women, squabbling and in-fighting just the same as Blue Robes, but with a different flavor or bent (Psionics compared to Magick).

Fiefdoms for the Merchant Houses to fight over.

Commoners as pawns.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Miradus

  • Posts: 2098
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #23 on: February 16, 2018, 07:17:47 PM »

I never played in Tuluk. They closed the gates shortly before I started playing.

We want another city? I'm okay with that.

It's the newly discovered, Aztec-styled city on the far side of the Silt Sea. You need a skimmer to get there and risk all the hazards, but it's filled with wealth and riches and intrigue.

There's no purpose to the Silt Sea right now except as a theme. I want a full maritime culture in the game on silt skimmers. Pirates, seamen, the works! Put whomever did those starter shops in Luir's on the project because their starter shops are above and beyond what could be expected from a newbie equipment store. They're ready for their own freakin' kingdom.

Yesterday I typed who and I saw like 50+ people playing. But they weren't in Morin's, they weren't in Luir's, and they weren't rolling around on the roads north of the Red Desert. Where the heck are they? Dunno. Crowded into the Gaj maybe watching half-elves puke on the floor.

Malken

  • Posts: 9101
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #24 on: February 16, 2018, 07:39:54 PM »
If Tuluk didn't lack in something, it's certainly seaman hehehehehehehhehehehehehehhehehehehehehhehehehehehehhehehehehehehhehehehehehehhehehehehehehhehehehehe
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Miradus

  • Posts: 2098
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #25 on: February 16, 2018, 08:19:07 PM »

I see what you did there. :)

Cind

  • Posts: 1598
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #26 on: February 17, 2018, 01:00:15 AM »
One Templar Order, with both men and women

Yes, this. The gender thing, while its harmless and politically correct when you aren't thinking in real-world terms, is still restrictive when you're thinking about choices to play inside the game. There is literally no reason, I'm sure, for the gender separation other than an 80's OOC categorical thing. I'm sure a lot of people don't care and would simply redo the pronouns in their initial bio but there are people like me who literally never play one of the genders, or to whom the gender is important for gameplay for some reason, like being a mother, or a deadbeat dad.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

palomar

  • Posts: 2151
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2018, 09:28:11 AM »
I liked the idea of Tuluk most, and when that idea was brought to life through the efforts of dedicated, creative players.

Ender

  • Posts: 1991
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #28 on: March 20, 2018, 12:43:33 AM »
One Templar Order, with both men and women, squabbling and in-fighting just the same as Blue Robes, but with a different flavor or bent (Psionics compared to Magick).

That actually happened already while Tuluk was still open for play.
man
/mćn/

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1.   A biped, ungrateful.

Dar

  • Posts: 1318
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #29 on: March 20, 2018, 04:53:48 AM »
It's only positive quality of importance was that it was not Allanak. So if you've played a long lived character in Allanak that had his/her fingers in a lot of pies. You could've played in Tuluk to be away with everything you interacted with prior.



That Is All. Forgive me, but I think the 'benefits' of Tuluk are being 'highly' romanticized due to it being gone for so long.

It is my hope that when it is open, it is sooo dramatically altered. I realize it's hard to impliment, but if you want to have murder/corruption/betrayal, you cannot have an All Seeing Eye as a non virtual concept.


The irony that I'm being a lot less subtle in this post then Yam's answer is not lost on me :).
« Last Edit: March 20, 2018, 04:58:18 AM by Dar »

Bushranger

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Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #30 on: March 20, 2018, 06:49:30 AM »
Chosen Lord Mesmer Dasari
Mirau
Kiris
Keyrena
Zari
Tallis Irofel
Siamaca Kadius
Raleris Winrothol
Quote from: Morgenes
Ya..what Bushranger said...that's the ticket.
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Skype: marcus.zozuk

ghanima

  • Posts: 81
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #31 on: March 20, 2018, 08:16:51 AM »
What I liked about Tuluk are also the things I disliked about it. I'll explain.

I liked the greater focus on descriptions there. You could easily see the difference in the generation that wrote up Allanak and the generation a full decade or more later that wrote up New Tuluk. In Allanak you have things like "a bone dagger" and it has a half-sentence description that literally reads something like "This crude bone dagger looks deadly". Fast forward to New Tuluk and things are a lot more immersive. The problem is I think it went too far. Page long descriptions are just ridiculous, as far as I'm concerned. Unless it's something super unique and rare like maybe a magickal tree, if you're writing a page to describe something, you're just going overboard. There's a point at which a good thing taken to the extreme is no longer good at all.

I liked the attention to detail with clan creating and the desire to flesh out documentation. I saw some of the original clan docs to very old clans from back in they day and they were pretty sparse. Even some of the ones still in existence now are! Tuluk fought against this by weaving a rich and detailed background for itself. But you had these vastly convoluted and over complicated storylines that often resulted in contradictions. It just seemed to go a little too far. It's possible to be descriptive while still being concise and to the point.

Anyone who remembers Old Tuluk will recall a fairly unpleasant design. Once New Tuluk was rolled out it had absurdly long roads, some that literally went nowhere. You'd walk 20 rooms in one direction and suddenly come to a dead end. Thankfully staff reduced this but it was still never much fun to navigate the city unless you were on a running mount.

Tuluk took all the things that were wrong with Allanak and made a concerted effort to improve upon that. I'ml glad for the effort. Unfortunately that goal was often taken so far to the extreme that it just went to the opposite end of the spectrum.

Where Tuluk really shined was of course the Rebellion days. There were some really good plots being hatched at that time and there isn't much criticism to be said for it. But that was all pre-New Tuluk. After the transformation from Old Tuluk to destroyed Tuluk to New Tuluk it just felt too big for itself. If anything is to be done with it currently, these are good lessons to learn from!

Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #32 on: March 20, 2018, 09:31:33 AM »
Chosen Lord Mesmer Dasari
Mirau
Kiris
Keyrena
Zari
Tallis Irofel
Siamaca Kadius
Raleris Winrothol

Creek.
Faithful Lord Kieandatu.
The Fattest of the Fat Lord Dragean
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

fade

  • Posts: 103
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #33 on: March 21, 2018, 01:47:35 PM »
Chosen Lord Mesmer Dasari
Mirau
Kiris
Keyrena
Zari
Tallis Irofel
Siamaca Kadius
Raleris Winrothol

Wait you were raleris??

Riev

  • Posts: 5160
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2018, 03:00:19 PM »
I think he's saying HE was Mesmer, and misses all those other people.

Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Cind

  • Posts: 1598
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #35 on: March 22, 2018, 02:32:39 AM »
Siamaca and Raleris were awesome. I only really know about Dragean because he was so fat, you could see him from a mile away.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Grapes

  • Posts: 416
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #36 on: March 22, 2018, 03:12:19 AM »
Tuluk was nice because it had way too many taverns. Some times you want to poison the drink of an undesirable without witnesses.
Quote from: Is Friday
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Boogerbear

  • Posts: 37
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #37 on: September 10, 2018, 08:26:47 AM »
I liked Tuluk when it was just a burned-out shell of a city with ruins, barrens, the Sanctuary, and Freil's Rest.

The entire way the city was rebuilt has always been a point of contention, with staff actually shortening its roads towards the end.

Basically, with the rebuilding of Tuluk, tons of resources and docs - some very in-depth, like the Poet's Circle - were created for an area that would eventually be closed.  Reworking the city extenisvely, opening and closing zones, creating and changing docs... I guess one could say that you can appreciate Tuluk for the fact that it received more attention in terms of docs/new clans/new policies/new rules than Nak ever did in that time.

I like it when nobles got force stored for banging commoners.

But most of all, what I liked about Tuluk was that it was once open, but now it's closed. 

RIP shartists.


Edit:  It also demonstrated the problem of trying to impose clan caps on groups playing in an area where the playerbase is small.  No, you can't do that, or, whenever an engaging leader does enter a place like Tuluk, they are severely hamstrung when it comes to involving the one or two PCs who have stuck around for a IRL week or so because nobody is around to hire her or the current clans won't because they've reached their hard population cap. And if not a human native, good luck.

Experimental policy changes like that did not serve well in keeping Tuluk.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 08:33:09 AM by Boogerbear »
"Some days you get the bear. Some days, the bear gets you."

Bebop

  • Posts: 3737
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #38 on: September 10, 2018, 10:41:53 PM »
The Poet's Circle
When it was hopping you had commoners competing for commoner level title, affluence and work prospects.  It was really cool because at face value it had nothing to do with combat.  It set up scenarios where commoners could court and be courted for work without using any coded abilities.  It allowed really cool ways to promote products, slight your enemies, and use OOC creativity.  On top of that, of course, many were shadow artists and artisans.  It added culture and guidance and a lot of fun RP opportunities.  There was also the Ghatti Teahouse that bards were rumored to work at so I had once PC that always waitressed there for fun.

It's odd.  Because right before I quit the Bard's Circle was so popular I got force stored for not playing enough (even though I was kinda busy and out of town at the time).  I come back a few years later and Tuluk is completely closed and getting ragged on.  Huh?  I'm so confused!  Also, oddly enough according to these messages this was exactly almost to the date of today six years ago.

Quote
2012-09-09 07:58:03PM (2192 days ago)
I just went to log in to Bae and it seems I've been stored.  It doesn't look like I even received an e-mail.  I recently logged on a couple of times then I [redacted was basically out of town and super busy IRL]  I went to log on tonight and no character.  What happened?

Quote
Nyr
2012-09-10 20:14:31 (2191 days ago)
[account name redacted],

When Eurynomos sent you that e-mail a bit more than a month ago, it was specifically asking about your playtimes because there is a lot of interest in the role of a bard, and you were not playing--and we have plenty of people interested in both auditioning and playing a sponsored one.

You weren't playing.  You logged in briefly that night (less than an hour).  You logged in briefly more than a month later (less than an hour).  There had been no other communication from you at all, so I made the decision to store your PC (as well as any other PCs inactive to that extent).

Good luck with your next role.  If you'd like to play a bard in the future, that's wonderful, but we will definitely expect more playtimes in these coveted roles.  You can't sit on it indefinitely.

Regards,

Nyr

I hold no grudge here.  It is just baffling to me that this was the state when I left and this is the state upon my return.

The Option of Exile
Exile was a viable option in Nak for Templar's that wanted to get rid of someone without PKing.  One time I got exiled in game and I literally have no reason why.  Maybe the Templar was cray.  Which is cool because Blue Robes totally can be that.  Another time I was running a leader in the Guild and had to keep my head low so I scuttled to Tuluk and did just that.  As a city-based character I got to use my skills in a new setting which was fun.  If you get exiled in Nak IG now your options are Luir's which of course are ran by Merchant Houses still trying to get in good with Nak.  Plus it's not super easy for a city based character to stay active there.  When you ran off to Tuluk as an exile it was fun because you were an Outsider but could still find common ground on being like, fuck Nak!

The Baddies
It saddens me that new players won't know what it's like to have PC baddies.  I don't just mean the Templarate.  When everyone would get together for Luir's Fest and you would have Allanaki and Tuluki PCs together you could cut the tension with a knife at times.  It was so amusing.  And you had GMH family trying to play both sides.  It was finely tuned balancing act.

On top of that, you of course could put a face to thine enemy and find ways to fuck with one another from afar.  Now the game seems more PVE.  That IG antagonist is gone and the game world seems far more empty to me without it.  Yes, that relegates conflict to a few spots remaining IG but it really isn't in the same at all IMO and sometimes now leads to pettiness at times due to boredom.

The Economy
It was fun having certain items more rare on either side of the world.  Obsidian in Tuluk and wood in 'Nak.  It made the trade routes seem so alive to roam across the Known, gather some things for trading and then scuttle back with a bounty if you could make it.  Did some people take advantage of this?  Totally.  Did it need some tweaking?  Yah.  But it was so fun having a living breathing economy on both sides of the world.

The Tattoos
From shadow artists inks, to commoner markings.  I loved all of the ritualism.

Playability
Let's be real.  Sometimes Nak is overrun with people you don't wanna play with, or Templars overzealous on PK.  When Nak felt un-playable you could scoot on over to Tuluk and vice versa.  And some people just preferred Tuluk.  It fit their vibe and play style.  I started out not playing in Tuluk for the first few years because I thought it was "froo froo", then I started to give it a try and got hooked with all of the ritualism, stylization and beginning to realize the oh so subtle nuances of Tuluk that were ultimately no less brutal and sometimes even more so than Allanak.  That playability is lost now for those that were primarily Tuluki players.

A Breath of Fresh Air - Reset
When I would get tired of Nak, I could play in Tuluk and it was like playing the game anew if I had been0 isolated and didn't know what was going on on the other side of the world.  I also could get a whole different feel for awhile.  It made the game again feel more expansive.

Magicker Hate
Being a sekret witch there was scary as hell.  And in general it was fun to be in a city-state where that shit was NOT tolerated, fam.

Summary
Tuluk had it's issues but so does the game.  There were times it was a really immersive, vibrant and brutal place to play.  It irks me when people say it wasn't thematic.  Thematic to Armageddon?  It absolutely was.  You can't call half of a game that's been around for decades not thematic.  Maybe it wasn't thematic to tribal, desert life or harshness or what ever notions you had in your mind.  Was it thematic to Allanak?  No.  For some reason people seem to default to that.  Tuluk wasn't Allanak but it was still a brutal city in the scrub and I have a lot of good memories of playing (and dying) there.  It was thematic to the game because it was just as much a part of the game as the other cities.  Alas.

I don't know what I missed by I'm super surprised and bummed to see Tuluk go from bustling to straight ass gone.
I volunteer as tribute if it ever gets revived.

What's ironic to me, and I obviously can't specify as to why my opinion is such, is that to me right now?  Allanak feels a WHOLE lot like Tuluk, actually.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2018, 10:48:08 PM by Bebop »

Heade

  • Posts: 500
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #39 on: September 11, 2018, 12:06:56 AM »
@Bebop

That's a well-written review. I appreciate the time you took to write it up and agree with the majority of your points

I wish Tuluk was still around...

...and I do agree that Nak feels more like Tuluk than it used to.

I think a part of that is, quite simply, not having real PC north/south enemies. It's a lot easier to successfully run materials between the north/south now than it used to be, because there aren't PCs that are really auto-aggro towards people from the other side of the world.

That, and a lot of the PCs who would have created characters in Tuluk are playing in Nak now, if they haven't quit the game, bringing some of the attitudes and RP styles that brought Tuluk alive with them.
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

roughneck

  • Posts: 768
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #40 on: September 11, 2018, 08:12:58 AM »
I miss dust-ups in the grasslands. There was always a shit ton of hunters out there, and often desert elves, and sometimes invisible whirans and sorcerers.

There was all kinds of great skirmishes, standoffs, tension, murders and bounties to be had.

There's still some fun to be had, but not like it used to be. The grasslands were like an unofficial tavern when Tuluk was open.

Vex

  • Posts: 89
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #41 on: September 12, 2018, 12:33:07 AM »
I would have liked to try it.
"Mortals do drown so."

Veselka

  • Posts: 730
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #42 on: September 12, 2018, 12:47:46 AM »
The world appears much smaller without Tuluk in the game. Macro has appeared to become micro; groups that may have been privateers or working as agents for Tuluk against Allanak, or Allanak against Tuluk, simply become targets for all who are willing to jump on the bandwagon.

As a white elephant in the game world, it serves only the purpose of speculation. What is Tuluk? What is happening in Tuluk, or with Tuluk? It is, and it isn't -- a subject best avoided, both in the game, and outside of it.

Every protagonist (self-perceived) needs an antagonist (self-perceived). These self-perceptions of either extreme offered nuance and double dealing, subterfuge and sabotage. It put entities like the Greater Merchant Houses in bigger pickles, as they had to play against and with both sides.

Instead, it appears that our story has changed -- The protagonist/antagonist has become micro, rather than macro. They are within one city state, within one circle of friends/enemies/acquaintances. Problems can be vindicated, blamed, or mislead within a shrinking Venn diagram. The original purpose, or purported purpose, behind the closure of Tuluk was consolidation, and if that has been achieved, it has lead to just that -- a condensed player base, a more homogeneous and cliquey player base, where long lived characters dictate culture more than documentation, and where antagonism appears as a welcome break from the mundane.

Often, the mystery of Tuluk or Allanak created further imaginative plot-hooks and articulations than what actually occurred. Allanak might be as dead and dry as a desiccated corpse, with a low player base and trouble getting Aides and new hires through their clans. But in Tuluk, who knows? Allanak might be planning its next attack, its next spy craft campaign. The same obviously went for Tuluk when it had its long dry spells of inactivity -- It still presented a real and present danger to those in politics in Allanak, and as the often imagined foil to their own plots and plans.

In essence, to have Tuluk 'around' but unplayable is perhaps the most Tuluki thing to happen to Tuluk. Tuluk would have liked it that way, in all its bloated subtlety and heavy documentation, to be, and to not be, at the same time. But from a gameplay standpoint, it's almost worse to have it exist and not exist.

As to what I liked about Tuluk -- The reformation, the drastic changes happening towards its closure, appeared to be a train on the right track finally. It was a shock to see its closure especially in the timeframe which it happened. I hope one day it will reopen, but beyond that hope, I hope to one day have a more macro game -- where the story can appear larger than it actually is, rather than as small as you perceive it to be.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Bebop

  • Posts: 3737
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #43 on: September 12, 2018, 01:09:46 AM »
Instead, it appears that our story has changed -- The protagonist/antagonist has become micro, rather than macro. They are within one city state, within one circle of friends/enemies/acquaintances. Problems can be vindicated, blamed, or mislead within a shrinking Venn diagram. The original purpose, or purported purpose, behind the closure of Tuluk was consolidation, and if that has been achieved, it has lead to just that -- a condensed player base, a more homogeneous and cliquey player base, where long lived characters dictate culture more than documentation, and where antagonism appears as a welcome break from the mundane.

*applauds*

Krath

  • Posts: 2432
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #44 on: September 12, 2018, 01:28:25 AM »
Instead, it appears that our story has changed -- The protagonist/antagonist has become micro, rather than macro. They are within one city state, within one circle of friends/enemies/acquaintances. Problems can be vindicated, blamed, or mislead within a shrinking Venn diagram. The original purpose, or purported purpose, behind the closure of Tuluk was consolidation, and if that has been achieved, it has lead to just that -- a condensed player base, a more homogeneous and cliquey player base, where long lived characters dictate culture more than documentation, and where antagonism appears as a welcome break from the mundane.

*applauds*

+1
Armageddon is best when it's actually harsh and brutal, not when we're only pretending that it is.

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11901
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #45 on: September 12, 2018, 01:37:07 AM »
While I do think something needs to be done about White Elephant Tuluk, I also want to point out that the microplots/pettiness and the dogpiling on potential conflict out of boredom and the influence established PCs can wield is not a new problem. It existed when Tuluk/Allanak were both open. It's just harder to escape now.
Will they tell your story in the end?
Who lives, who dies, who tells your story?

Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #46 on: September 12, 2018, 02:16:48 AM »
I miss Tuluk because

Step 1: wash with soap on the way to the north and participate in gossip about the south in The Firestorm ...

Step 2: kill ten things on my way to the south, remain bloody and participate in gossip about the north in the Gaj ...

step 3: ....

step 4: profit.

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 5216
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #47 on: September 12, 2018, 05:20:40 PM »
I liked Tuluk before it was...revamped.

Ditto. Under Nakki rule, rebels plotting underground and all that shit. What ended up being was badly executed. I think they *wanted* to be the opposite of Nak but they weren't. It ended up being the opposite of Zalanthas, of murder,  corruption and betrayal. 
Preservation, morality, loyalty.
Live long and prosper.   
Vulcans. Tulukis were vulcans, heh.


All kidding aside:

from a gameplay standpoint, it's almost worse to have it exist and not exist.
Agreed.

It's closure,  imo, has led to things softening all around. I'd like to see it return,  Tuluk 2.0, with one templar order,  without tattoos, with shadow artistry that was as elite as they claimed it was,  with true patriotism.


I keep hearing we need a larger player base though.


I wonder what staff's stance on the reopening is.
I'm taking an indeterminate break from Armageddon for the foreseeable future and thereby am not available for mudsex.
Quote from: Anonymous
I'm sorry to see that your personal resolution to this went in that direction, but wish you the best.

Heade

  • Posts: 500
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #48 on: September 12, 2018, 08:19:46 PM »
I'd like to see it return,  Tuluk 2.0, with one templar order,  without tattoos, with shadow artistry that was as elite as they claimed it was,  with true patriotism.

I can get behind this. I think it would be nice for that one templar order not to have a particular set of "all seeing eye" powers. It would allow for more intrigue. Maybe have those people be far fewer in number, and not called in to deal with the petty squabbles between GMHs and independents, but rather be reserved for dealing with the security of Tuluk itself from it's southern counterpart. Perhaps as NPCs only. Could be the Tuluki version of a Red-Robed templar, as much as I dislike the glass ceiling idea.
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

Aruven

  • Posts: 2444
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #49 on: September 13, 2018, 04:22:30 PM »
I never understood the gender outcry of two divided orders. I thought it was unique, and their was a great story arc for tension, culture, and competition.

Everyone that played their was fine with potentially nerf'ing the one order type thing with the proclaimed "plot ruining powers."

I was tuluki fan o #1 for a long time, but the winds shifted and the ship sailed south, as did all the staff. Id say about a third of the players I know left the game at the time and a good deal havent come back. I dont know anything for sure, especially regarding staff decisions, but im fairly confident it will not ever be a thing again outside of an hrpt or extended plotline.

I like another city over the silt sea. Lets make that a real thing!

Heade

  • Posts: 500
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #50 on: September 13, 2018, 05:37:59 PM »
I like another city over the silt sea. Lets make that a real thing!

I could get behind the idea of making a city OTHER than Tuluk, too. I don't know if this is exactly how I'd go with it, but just having some real alternative to Nak would be a welcome change. I think a major culture shift in Tuluk is the most realistic option, though. The game area is already built, so it would require the least work by staff.
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

Malken

  • Posts: 9101
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #51 on: September 13, 2018, 06:06:39 PM »
They're not going to build you a new city.  ::)
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Heade

  • Posts: 500
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #52 on: September 13, 2018, 08:29:11 PM »
You know, that's one thing I really liked about accursed lands..they actually had code implemented to allow for building of stuff in wild zones of the game, so you could build a cabin in the woods or something. I think that would be a great addition to Arm.
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

Cind

  • Posts: 1598
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #53 on: September 14, 2018, 02:38:39 AM »
I believe that at the very end Tuluk was changed to have some more grit and less smiling, but I don't think people remember what is essentially its last two weeks. Was a bit late to do much but bite the bullet and watch the gates close.

Having only one noble house and the militia open in both cities and keep both cities open would solve it, I think. Only noble Houses can really call their bluffs against the militia, from the little I've seen at least. The merchant houses are at the militia's mercy in the end, because they are not technically part of the power structure as they comprise partially of foreigners and do business with both sides.

It'd be bare-bones, but we'd have enemies again. (I don't really know what to say about the GMHs, keep them open so crafters can have options? Although something tells me that's not really the way to go; perhaps just having one open would suffice, change which one's open every few years.) The enemy city would loom beyond the horizon the way it should, and if you worked hard enough, were a jackass, or were a nice person not doing anything you'd also have enemies again in the city proper. Remember, Houses and the militia are just warring elf tribes without the ragged clothes and the beautiful faces.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Aruven

  • Posts: 2444
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #54 on: September 14, 2018, 06:02:05 AM »
Opening tuluk spikes the player base a bit. Fite me if this is untrue, but if its broadcast its real. Not that I have a particular need to see it spiked, I just remember when it was average to have like 60 - 70 folks on because always a portion of those loved the north and would play there.

Taking Tuluk out was essentially a George R.R Martin move in the end. Create a world with lore, conflicts, cultures, then cave into the HBO studios for the instant gratification and michael bay explosions and action -- never finish the actual books because its a little harder to figure out how to do it. My suspicion is some of the writers and visionary folks that could really craft the story left; both staff and player side, and its not really possible to get the same caliber of continuation (Not because they CAN'T, but simply they don't have any desire to do so), so they closed it among other things. I could dig up my logs with staff where months out it was clear they were over the shit and it was all mostly operation clean up to get it closed.

At any rate, I spent some time trying to find the Armageddon reborn BS. They had a cool idea about how cities would work in a thread and I couldn't find it.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 08:25:24 AM by Aruven »

Boogerbear

  • Posts: 37
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #55 on: September 14, 2018, 01:23:19 PM »
I never understood the gender outcry of two divided orders. I thought it was unique, and their was a great story arc for tension, culture, and competition.

Everyone that played their was fine with potentially nerf'ing the one order type thing with the proclaimed "plot ruining powers."

I was tuluki fan o #1 for a long time, but the winds shifted and the ship sailed south, as did all the staff. Id say about a third of the players I know left the game at the time and a good deal havent come back. I dont know anything for sure, especially regarding staff decisions, but im fairly confident it will not ever be a thing again outside of an hrpt or extended plotline.

I like another city over the silt sea. Lets make that a real thing!

Even if 70 players were regularly logging in during the week, it is still a lot of work to support two sets of great merchant houses, two sets of templars, two sets of noble houses... and all of the minions those PCs require.  Different sets of players for other clans, too, like city elf/Bard's Circle.  That there's a lotta roles to fill.

after all that, you have to set new staff members to those individual groups, too.

it's neat to think about a way to open Tuluk for trade/travel only, while not allowing anyone to play actual PCs based there, but I have no idea about the IC events leading to Tuluk's closure... so, I won't speculate.

At the end of the day, there is still Morin's.  In a way, it mirrors what Tuluk was like when I started playing:  when Freil's Rest was an enterable village, when there were no clans available in the North except Kadius, the Rebellion, very infrequent southern nobles/templars (like a Borsail who found a hidden tunnel, facepalm).  I mean, Morin's is self-sustaining, and the game has basically come full circle by it acting as the new Freil's Rest.

There are solid reasons for why Tuluk has closed twice, and it's unfortunate that players left solely because it closed.  Maybe they had never played the game before Tuluk was rebuilt? At any rate, 1/3 of the playerbase leaving just because of Tuluk's closure doesn't add up to me.  Over the past 5 RL years, lots of players have left or were banned for reasons completely unrelated to IC events or Tuluk's closure.
"Some days you get the bear. Some days, the bear gets you."

number13

  • Posts: 994
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #56 on: September 22, 2018, 02:57:21 PM »
Tuluk closing didn't cause the player base to shrink. Tuluk was closed *because* the player base shrunk.

Heade

  • Posts: 500
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #57 on: September 22, 2018, 04:30:32 PM »
Tuluk closing didn't cause the player base to shrink. Tuluk was closed *because* the player base shrunk.

There's a very real possibility of a negative feedback loop there, as well. Playerbase shrinks>Tuluk is Closed>Playerbase further shrinks.
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.

Veselka

  • Posts: 730
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #58 on: September 22, 2018, 05:40:08 PM »
I think more accurately, Staff's ability to oversee both areas of the world shrunk. Keeping two GMH branches open, overseeing two Templar orders, and generally 'two player bases' was not sustainable for them considering Staff burnout.

At least from what I gathered in the announcement from Staff at the time, it was something that was a slow-burn happening for quite a while. Tuluk when it was closed was probably the most populous/happening that it had been since 2006. But this was trying to address a systemic issue for Staff, not necessarily because the player base was shrinking. They were trying to consolidate the player base, but this in effect consolidates the Staff and their realms of influence.

Four Staffers that would have been assigned to Tuluk are instead assigned to GMH, Southern Staff, and Indies, which in theory would increase their ability to oversee those areas, and also allow for wiggle room when a Staffer goes AWOL or has to suddenly take a leave of absence. There were times when Tuluk was open where there would be two Storytellers and one Admin active -- If one of those Storytellers went AWOL or had to take a leave of absence, you had one Storyteller, and possibly one Admin overseeing an entire area of the game. The same was true of Indies, definitely.

So, I always saw it as a way for Staff to operate more efficiently, regardless of player interest in the area or the current population, or of a 'shrinking player base'. That wasn't a reason that was cited as far as I remember.
Live your life as though your every act were to become a universal law.

--Immanuel Kant

Heade

  • Posts: 500
Re: What You Liked About Tuluk
« Reply #59 on: September 22, 2018, 09:53:45 PM »
That sort of goes into the whole negative feedback loop thing, though. Since staff are drawn from the playerbase, a larger choice of potential staff members results from more players, with the opposite also being true. So, losing players by making the available game smaller also loses potential staffers who could have staffed those areas.
I used to have a funny signature, but I felt like no one took me seriously, so it's time to put on my serious face.