Author Topic: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?  (Read 733 times)

Eyeball

  • Posts: 704
Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« on: December 15, 2017, 01:39:28 AM »
Red Storm isn't a "city state" after all.

Is Friday

  • Posts: 6200
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2017, 02:03:24 AM »
Sounds like a good way to attract too much attention.
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sleepyhead

  • Posts: 274
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2017, 02:16:28 AM »
"Illegal" or not, no one in Red Storm is going to want to be known as someone who can do that.

Grapes

  • Posts: 239
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #3 on: December 15, 2017, 03:17:23 AM »
But Red Storm is a place where you don't ask questions, and snitching is probably a bad idea as well. So I'd assume, anything's legal as long as you don't get caught.
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Patuk

  • Posts: 4152
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #4 on: December 15, 2017, 03:22:52 AM »
But Red Storm is a place where you don't ask questions, and snitching is probably a bad idea as well. So I'd assume, anything's legal as long as you don't get caught.

That's true of anywhere, though.
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Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1884
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #5 on: December 15, 2017, 08:24:56 AM »
I believe people live in Red Storm generally for two basic reasons:

1) They are just poor shmucks who are stuck and can't get out. Often times merchant house punish employees by transferring them to Red Storm. Unless someone works for the Storm Lord the opportunities there are few and far between and what's available for the average Amos is slim pickings. Life long residents risk getting the silt lung and dying a slow painful death. There are just better places to live with more opportunities.

2)They are hiding something (being a secret magicker or a secret librarian) or from someone (run away slaves) and can't really go anywhere else. Don't ask questions and don't tell anyone your secrets and you'll get along fine. With no active law enforcement (Templars, soldiers PCs) unless someone goes around telling people they are magicker/bandit/librarian they'll probably get along fine.

As I understand it, Red Storm takes all comers as long as they can go along and get along, while maintaining that the Storm Lord's business continues to go smoothly.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 08:30:07 AM by Molten Heart »

Akariel

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 498
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2017, 10:34:34 AM »
Legality for reading and writing are coded into the game. If you would like to test it out, please attempt to read text near a guard of Red Storm.

Hint: They'll murder you just as fast as a Templar in Tuluk or Allanak would.

stark

  • Posts: 388
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2017, 11:09:03 AM »
Having seen the guards break into an apartment and kill someone they saw practicing majik through the windows... I've had a VERY healthy respect for the Sand Lord's justice.
What kind of jerkoff shakes a tent in the dark? Go out there and see who or what that is.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 704
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2017, 11:38:18 AM »
Legality for reading and writing are coded into the game. If you would like to test it out, please attempt to read text near a guard of Red Storm.

Hint: They'll murder you just as fast as a Templar in Tuluk or Allanak would.

Which leads to the question as to why the Sand Lord seems to be an enlightened sort (no slavery, no templar-equivalents extorting people), yet still is a harsh tyrant about this one. Or is he concerned Allanak will stomp his village if word gets out that people are starting to create a library.

Anyhow, ok, so it is.
« Last Edit: December 15, 2017, 11:40:15 AM by Eyeball »

deskoft

  • Posts: 163
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #9 on: December 15, 2017, 11:46:18 AM »
Legality for reading and writing are coded into the game. If you would like to test it out, please attempt to read text near a guard of Red Storm.

Hint: They'll murder you just as fast as a Templar in Tuluk or Allanak would.

Which leads to the question as to why the Sand Lord seems to be an enlightened sort (no slavery, no templar-equivalents extorting people), yet still is a harsh tyrant about this one. Or is he concerned Allanak will stomp his village if word gets out that people are starting to create a library.

Anyhow, ok, so it is.

I wonder that too!

Riev

  • Posts: 4858
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2017, 11:47:55 AM »
Legality for reading and writing are coded into the game. If you would like to test it out, please attempt to read text near a guard of Red Storm.

Hint: They'll murder you just as fast as a Templar in Tuluk or Allanak would.

Which leads to the question as to why the Sand Lord seems to be an enlightened sort (no slavery, no templar-equivalents extorting people), yet still is a harsh tyrant about this one. Or is he concerned Allanak will stomp his village if word gets out that people are starting to create a library.

Anyhow, ok, so it is.

Because only educated Nobles who control 99% of the Knowns wealth and commodities can read and write, and if you're not one of those elites... you're probably some magicker with a secret book that tells you secrets and gives you ways to kill the Sandlord.

Better keep that shit under wraps.

My concern is... how do guards know the difference between some guy drawing some sketches of eyes and lizards and such, and someone trying to decipher their own attempt at language?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 274
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2017, 11:51:54 AM »
It would be pretty dumb for someone to try to read or write in public in Red Storm anyway. You should never find out that it'll get you immediately executed because if you are smart enough to be literate you should be smart enough to realize that one way or another, flaunting this kind of knowledge WILL get you killed.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 704
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2017, 12:06:06 PM »
It would be pretty dumb for someone to try to read or write in public in Red Storm anyway. You should never find out that it'll get you immediately executed because if you are smart enough to be literate you should be smart enough to realize that one way or another, flaunting this kind of knowledge WILL get you killed.

I would expect it to be made public knowledge, rather than something you have to sacrifice a character for and then carry the knowledge on OOCly to the next character as Akariel suggested.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 274
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #13 on: December 15, 2017, 12:24:59 PM »
You are right. The coded side of things should be well-known.

However, what you are saying is kind of separate from what I'm saying, which is that with or without the crimcode element, it would still be extremely unwise for your character to do this in a public place. It'd be kind of like announcing publicly that you are a sorcerer. The crimcode will not get you for that, but it's still incredibly irresponsible and very likely to get you killed. People spec apping for rogue literates are likely to be reminded of what a dangerous secret it is, no matter where one goes in the world.

Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2017, 12:27:07 PM »
Attempting to decipher or recreate language without the help of a nobleborn or someone who can read/write will be met with 'do not attempt to do that' from staff side, in my experience. I've had PCs who for various reasons wanted to do things that broached this line, and while I felt it within reason (and history in our reality suggests it should be easily accomplished given the amount of near self-taught individuals who managed a hold on certain things) staff do not want the game to go that direction, according to someone who spoke with me at that time. I welcome everybody to try though and maybe you will be the one to get through.

There are some methods by which you may learn to read and write, though.

As to why Red Storm may or may not enforce certain laws that 'could' potentially have little effect on -that- population, and large effect on others...well, ask yourself why you never see templars assaulting the Red Storm gates. Why Red Storm exists, so near Allanak despite being full of criminals. No one seriously thinks Allanak just saw a rise of a village on the edge of the sea full of property of nobleborn and criminals and farmers and everything between, and just decided, 'We don't care about that at all!'...do you? I have no access to further documents than any of you on the matter, but I think it's pretty blatant that someone somewhere high is working out big deals with the big 'A'. Red Storm wouldn't survive a serious assault by Allanak. I always assumed they were kept around because whether the muls/criminals think they're free or not, they're generating revenue for Allanak through grain or spice indirectly. Somewhere far back, no doubt in various dealings for Trade, some amount of mandates were passed between some Black/Red robe and the Sand Lord, to allow a reasonable degree of division and separation without outright war. You'd see this among city-states in our own world, too.

'No reading or writing' would be pretty high up on the list of powerful red/black robes to mandate, given you wouldn't want people...you know, managing to come across ancient texts full of the secrets to immortality and turning people into combustible intestine splatter and risking the rise of a third Sorcerer-King.
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effectively was murdered.<- Rulebook on how to politick. -My Anonymous Staffer

Blur

  • Posts: 215
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2017, 12:08:25 AM »
It  does seems a little strange have the legality of reading and writing coded into any guards especially in a place like redstorm. I might understand Templar NPCs might trigger crimcode but even that is a stretch. You might as well, make paper with any random scribbles illegal instead as far as anyone is concerned.

I think reading and writing should be treated like languages in game. In that some commoners know how to read/write in a very primitive way. While all the important books and reading resources are written in a more complex and advance writing style that only highborn are able to learn. Similar to how commoners speak Sirihish, while only Templars are allowed to learn and speak Tatlum.

Tatlum from the help files:
Code: [Select]
This is the oldest of the known human languages, some claiming that humanity learned it from the dragon, others insisting that it was given to humans by powerful elementals. The truth would be impossible to determine amid so many legends.

In current times, Tatlum is spoken only by templars. It is not that only templars bother to study the language, but that the law forbids commoners to know it, in either its spoken or written form. This holds true for both of the city-states, Allanak and Tuluk, today.

The spoken version of this language closely resembles Mirukkim, and the two languages hold a number of words in common. Little else is known about this language, or if it is, people will not reveal it for fear of punishment from the templarate.

Kankfly

  • Posts: 1204
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #16 on: December 17, 2017, 01:33:00 AM »
It  does seems a little strange have the legality of reading and writing coded into any guards especially in a place like redstorm. I might understand Templar NPCs might trigger crimcode but even that is a stretch. You might as well, make paper with any random scribbles illegal instead as far as anyone is concerned.

I think reading and writing should be treated like languages in game. In that some commoners know how to read/write in a very primitive way. While all the important books and reading resources are written in a more complex and advance writing style that only highborn are able to learn. Similar to how commoners speak Sirihish, while only Templars are allowed to learn and speak Tatlum.

Tatlum from the help files:
Code: [Select]
This is the oldest of the known human languages, some claiming that humanity learned it from the dragon, others insisting that it was given to humans by powerful elementals. The truth would be impossible to determine amid so many legends.

In current times, Tatlum is spoken only by templars. It is not that only templars bother to study the language, but that the law forbids commoners to know it, in either its spoken or written form. This holds true for both of the city-states, Allanak and Tuluk, today.

The spoken version of this language closely resembles Mirukkim, and the two languages hold a number of words in common. Little else is known about this language, or if it is, people will not reveal it for fear of punishment from the templarate.

That's interesting. Actually, I think now that the drawing skill is IG, it's entirely possible to play out some form of primitive 'writing' (aka drawing) to pass some sort of knowledge down to other people. I don't think that would be considered 'writings' or 'reading' either, since they're just drawings, and so might not even be considered illegal.
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Riev

  • Posts: 4858
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #17 on: December 17, 2017, 01:41:49 AM »
Any attempt at using drawing/illustrations as a crude form of communication is probably going to be found out REAL quick, if staff even allow it in the first place.

However, I'd love to see a "So whats the situation, Informant? Report." and then just get handed a sheet of paper that illustrates half a dozen Soldiers on a street corner or something.

Illustrate could be so cool.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 274
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #18 on: December 17, 2017, 01:46:53 AM »
I did this recently, which is to say I used drawing as a crude method of communication. I depicted a threatening situation as a warning. It wasn't anything close to written text and I'm quite certain staff had no problem with it.

Kankfly

  • Posts: 1204
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2017, 02:09:05 AM »
Any attempt at using drawing/illustrations as a crude form of communication is probably going to be found out REAL quick, if staff even allow it in the first place.

However, I'd love to see a "So whats the situation, Informant? Report." and then just get handed a sheet of paper that illustrates half a dozen Soldiers on a street corner or something.

Illustrate could be so cool.

I don't see why not. It's not considered reading/writing, so why can't it be used to convey information?
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Hauwke

  • Posts: 1375
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #20 on: December 17, 2017, 06:56:07 AM »
If you draw a hand with the middle finger up, its pretty clear what it is even without the ability to read.

stark

  • Posts: 388
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #21 on: December 17, 2017, 08:46:02 AM »
There has been a huge amount of people wanting to make "illustrated books" and I'm not entirely certain anymore of what the staff rule is for this. I remember many years ago that things like that were dangerous and kept squirreled away on compounds away from low-level players that might carry them off into a tavern and end up dead. Is this now something that is rather common and no longer dangerous to possess?
What kind of jerkoff shakes a tent in the dark? Go out there and see who or what that is.

Grogerif

  • Posts: 49
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #22 on: December 17, 2017, 09:24:11 AM »
If you draw a hand with the middle finger up, its pretty clear what it is even without the ability to read.

Obviously they were trying to draw Allanak.  A tower rising from a group of buildings, but why all the naked body parts on the rest of the page?  Maybe they are trying to convey a party at House Fale?

Grapes

  • Posts: 239
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #23 on: December 17, 2017, 09:28:10 AM »
I imagine it's not just the crimcode, but even if they "fixed" it, the cost to players of testing it, just always what I assumed it was, I could be vastly incorrect... read/write code, to my understanding, is so wonky you don't want to play with it.

EDIT: Whatever, poorly worded, but that there's ancient, pervasive crim-code in effect, um, I'd pay a breed to test it;
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 09:31:10 AM by Grapes »
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 274
Re: Legal for commoners to read and write in Red Storm?
« Reply #24 on: December 17, 2017, 09:29:30 AM »
There has been a huge amount of people wanting to make "illustrated books" and I'm not entirely certain anymore of what the staff rule is for this. I remember many years ago that things like that were dangerous and kept squirreled away on compounds away from low-level players that might carry them off into a tavern and end up dead. Is this now something that is rather common and no longer dangerous to possess?

The 'draw' and 'look' commands won't get anyone roflstomped. In the past, people have done illustrations with the 'write' command, which was not ideal because people who could not read that language would not even know there was supposed to be an illustration there, much less what it was of. Now that 'draw' is the standard for illustrations, you can do illustrated books without any kind of literacy.

So if it really is just a book of illustrations, you don't have anything to worry about, codedly at least. If someone present gets the wrong impression and starts spreading around that you look at books, though, you might still end up in hot water.