Author Topic: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?  (Read 2762 times)

LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 274
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #25 on: November 30, 2017, 07:08:24 PM »
I agree with Lizzie. The simplest solution is to just whore more; there would have to be a conscious choice on the player's part to engage in those kinds of activities, but that goes with most things. You can fade the sex part, but engage in the activity and RP. Spend those hoarded coins!
Just like the white winged dove,
Sings a song
Sounds like she's singing
Oooo,ooo, ooo

James de Monet

  • Posts: 3252
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #26 on: November 30, 2017, 07:33:36 PM »
Thatís great.  Now, what if you want to be an independent whore?  Or a dentist?  Or a florist?  Or a mural painter?  There are a thousand possible roles people might want to play in this role playing game that arenít feasible under the current conditions (without becoming a dentist/salter/occasional poopsmith).  Would you like to help them play those roles?

Edit: I was responding to Cabbage.
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

Narf

  • Posts: 812
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #27 on: November 30, 2017, 07:38:09 PM »
How about:

Subclass: Professional

Description: You have skills that earn you enough coin to get by, but that aren't represented in the coded reality of the game. You might be in construction, whoring, cleaning, farming or any number of other occupations that have no coded skill attached to them.

Skills: Scant, maybe none at all.
Special Abilities: You do not need to eat or drink while you are in a populated  area.

Veselka

  • Posts: 300
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #28 on: November 30, 2017, 07:54:42 PM »
How about:

Subclass: Professional

Description: You have skills that earn you enough coin to get by, but that aren't represented in the coded reality of the game. You might be in construction, whoring, cleaning, farming or any number of other occupations that have no coded skill attached to them.

Skills: Scant, maybe none at all.
Special Abilities: You do not need to eat or drink while you are in a populated  area.

These are the creative solutions i'm looking for. I think even reducing this allows for people to struggle to survive in a more RP centric way (despite what Lizzie may assert).

Grogerif

  • Posts: 36
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #29 on: November 30, 2017, 09:25:23 PM »
Imagine if PC soldiers only got paid when they made an arrest. 

Bad example, as you don't get paid for an IG year in many soldier and merc jobs.

Narf

  • Posts: 812
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2017, 09:39:58 PM »
Imagine if PC soldiers only got paid when they made an arrest. 

Bad example, as you don't get paid for an IG year in many soldier and merc jobs.

You get paid in food and water, which is really all a laborer would need since they don't have much requirement for fancy armor.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 693
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2017, 10:07:01 PM »
How about:

Subclass: Professional

Description: You have skills that earn you enough coin to get by, but that aren't represented in the coded reality of the game. You might be in construction, whoring, cleaning, farming or any number of other occupations that have no coded skill attached to them.

Skills: Scant, maybe none at all.
Special Abilities: You do not need to eat or drink while you are in a populated  area.

I like this. Maybe modify Special Abilities to "You do not need to eat or drink while you are in a populated area so long as you're not a member of a clan". On the assumption that once you're employed by a clan, your work will go toward them.

James de Monet

  • Posts: 3252
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2017, 10:28:30 PM »
Imagine if PC soldiers only got paid when they made an arrest. 

Bad example, as you don't get paid for an IG year in many soldier and merc jobs.

That isnít a situation where the character is only recompensed for non-virtual work.  They are indeed being paid, just not in coin initially (as Narf points out), and it is only temporary.
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1897
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2017, 10:29:24 PM »
yeah, but they still have to go to a pc, or an npc in extreme cases, to get hired like that.

what i'm saying is that what you're doing is creating a situation where a pc does not have to approach someone to find gainful employment, or rp, for something that is inherently based on rp.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

James de Monet

  • Posts: 3252
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2017, 11:31:46 PM »
Once again, the intent being advanced is not for the susbsistence amount to be their whole income.  It is intended to bridge the gap between what an average PC service worker makes, and what it actually takes for a PC to live.  It is intended to allow them MORE opportunities to RP with other PCs in their chosen role (by obviating their need to maintain a second career to live), not fewer.
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

Grogerif

  • Posts: 36
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2017, 11:44:23 PM »
Add a subguild with the skill Sex. Command fade or sex.
Use on Npcs, they pay you for sex.  Only usable on some Npcs. (not all npcs are interested in paying for sex) And vary the difficulty, failure means no payment or less.   Npcs will also only do it every couple of days, or even longer.  No substitute for Pcs, but maybe just enough to get by. 

Likely a bit of work, but it's an idea.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7510
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #36 on: December 01, 2017, 06:32:23 AM »
Once again - the VNPC whores are visiting VNPC customers and getting paid virtual pay for virtual work. VNPC whores -never- visit PC customers, don't interfere or compete with the business of PC whores.

If your whore isn't getting paid by other PCs, it's because whoring isn't a very attractive profession for either the whore or the other PCs. That doesn't mean anyone needs to create a whole set of code just to accommodate the few players who want to play virtual whores who get paid coded sids for performing work for virtual customers. It just means players need to either a) suddenly find hiring PC whores to be a more attractive option or b) stop playing PC whores.

It's on the players, not the coders, to "find a need and fill it." Obviously there isn't much of a need, because if there were the players of whores wouldn't be complaining that they can't find a non-virtual customer base that can sustain them with non-virtual coins.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Eyeball

  • Posts: 693
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #37 on: December 01, 2017, 07:47:27 AM »
I really don't see much difference at all between someone typing 'forage', 'forage', 'forage' ad infinitum, someone typing 'use axe tree', 'use axe tree', ad infinitum, and someone typing 'solicit', 'solicit', ad infinitum in a designated bawdy house or tavern. Except that 'solicit' would allow a would-be whore play a whore instead of a lumberjack or grebber or dung collector that happens to whore out on the side once in a while.

Make 'solicit' a whore subguild skill if there's concern everyone would start doing it. Make the outcome contingent on age and location as well as skill (which represents self-presentation and an eye for client selection). Have the character be rejected and thrown out if his or her clothing isn't fine enough (e.g. in the Red's). Have some drunken mercenary throw a mug at the whore if failing the skill check (takes some damage or clothing gets stained). Have there be a risk soldiers will haul the whore to jail if she or he doesn't have a merchant's token. Have the solicit code choose from a number of different little stories upon success. Have the whore learn it's a good idea to carry some spare clothing in case the client is the sort that likes to tear clothing away rather than undo buttons.

There's potential for this to be fun and novel here, not just support for a tricky role play choice.
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 08:03:51 AM by Eyeball »

deskoft

  • Posts: 148
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #38 on: December 01, 2017, 09:40:24 AM »
Removing the need to eat for these PCs would mean they can avoid poisoning. It would be a massive benefit imho.

Refugee

  • Posts: 1592
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #39 on: December 01, 2017, 10:15:41 AM »
There would have to be an greatly increased chance for bad consequences, like disease.

nauta

  • Posts: 2239
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #40 on: December 01, 2017, 10:35:42 AM »
Subclass: Professional

Description: You have skills that earn you enough coin to get by, but that aren't represented in the coded reality of the game. You might be in construction, whoring, cleaning, farming or any number of other occupations that have no coded skill attached to them.

Skills: Scant, maybe none at all.

I like this proposal.  In light of some of the objections (about poisoning, etc.), you might have the Special Abilities be simply:

"Receives [RANGE] coins per IG month from a virtual source, provided you have not joined a clan." 

The RANGE would have to be something to fuss about (less than what a clanned member on the payroll makes, enough to get by, mostly).  I want it to be a range so that there are good months and bad months.   If you have coins you can then get robbed or poisoned.  If you join a clan, you cannot double dip.

The neat thing about making this a 'subguild' option is that it would be a trade-off: instead of getting skills you basically get a minimal income.  For those who want to play flavor roles like this, that might be exactly the trade off you are looking for.

You could require people who choose this subguild to include in their background the specifics of how they are making money (working at a virtual bar, working at a virtual cheese stall, etc.), but I don't think it would need to be policed, a room you have to stand in and type a command in over and over, or even that there need to be an NPC you go to to receive your pay-out: it just goes to your account.  (Or at least it would work like current clan paymasters, if that is codedly easier.)
« Last Edit: December 01, 2017, 10:39:31 AM by nauta »
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 274
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #41 on: December 01, 2017, 10:39:32 AM »
Iím tempted to play a prostitute or a courtesan just to see how doable it is. I feel like supporting yourself in one of these roles comes down to RP though.

Rather than supporting this with code that will only lead to players doing random time wasting task #8, why not push for a brothel? Hello MMH idea! No, seriously why isnít there a brothel space in Allanak? A brothel with some kind of STRUCTURE that facilitates that kind of RP, one with a madame or whatever a male manager of a cat house is called. That way if you want to play that kind of role, you have a real space that facilitates it, a space that provides for food and shelter.

See, to me the game could use a money sink like that. It has to be a thing that players consciously decide to support though.

Iíd rather see an addition like that.

Just like the white winged dove,
Sings a song
Sounds like she's singing
Oooo,ooo, ooo

Refugee

  • Posts: 1592
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #42 on: December 01, 2017, 11:02:05 AM »
I think the reality of this sort of role is that most players of lower ranking PCs aren't willing to let their few sid go for it, and most the wealthier PCs have enough sex RP for free.  I've seen a lot of good whore PCs get started but not stick around long, I've seen a couple make it work for awhile.  I've seen efforts to start a bordello/pimp network on several occasions but those also don't seem to succeed.  It's inherently a dangerous job, going places alone with strangers, as it should be. 


LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 274
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #43 on: December 01, 2017, 11:52:54 AM »
I donít think code can fix any of those problems.
Just like the white winged dove,
Sings a song
Sounds like she's singing
Oooo,ooo, ooo

James de Monet

  • Posts: 3252
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #44 on: December 01, 2017, 02:19:29 PM »
There isnít a city PC in the game who does not benefit in a non-virtual way from the virtual economy.  Nobles?  Where does all that money come from?  They certainly arenít generating that much wealth.  It has to do with virtual value created by their house.  Crafters?  You really think PCs are buying every ivory hair needle theyíre creating?  No.  But NPCs still buy them, because they sell to other, virtual customers.  Clanned people?  Where do those salaries come from?  From virtual customers, tax payers, shops, trade deals, etc.  And every salaried, clanned individual is getting paid directly for virtual work they did.  You can tell, because one guy is logged in 4 hours a day and another 4 hours a week.  They get paid the same.  So either one guy gets paid more, ICly, or heís getting paid for virtually being there.  Until you are logged in 24/7, you would always be getting paid for virtual work, because somebody else could be doing more non-virtual work than you, and get paid the same.  Why is it so offensive to suggest that RP-based service jobs should maybe get to dip their hand in that pot also?
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

Riev

  • Posts: 4826
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #45 on: December 01, 2017, 02:46:54 PM »
There isnít a city PC in the game who does not benefit in a non-virtual way from the virtual economy.  Nobles?  Where does all that money come from?  They certainly arenít generating that much wealth.  It has to do with virtual value created by their house.  Crafters?  You really think PCs are buying every ivory hair needle theyíre creating?  No.  But NPCs still buy them, because they sell to other, virtual customers.  Clanned people?  Where do those salaries come from?  From virtual customers, tax payers, shops, trade deals, etc.  And every salaried, clanned individual is getting paid directly for virtual work they did.  You can tell, because one guy is logged in 4 hours a day and another 4 hours a week.  They get paid the same.  So either one guy gets paid more, ICly, or heís getting paid for virtually being there.  Until you are logged in 24/7, you would always be getting paid for virtual work, because somebody else could be doing more non-virtual work than you, and get paid the same.  Why is it so offensive to suggest that RP-based service jobs should maybe get to dip their hand in that pot also?

I think it is part of the same blowback that these coded jobs created initially. Adding in methods to generate currency without PC interaction is "bad". It detracts from PC-on-PC roleplay. Why would they allow people to be "solo"?

Its all been heard before. Its alright to be questioning about it, but the simple point is there is a role in the game that is considered "almost too hard" because it requires solely on an active playerbase interested in your roleplay offerings.

Once again - the VNPC whores are visiting VNPC customers and getting paid virtual pay for virtual work. VNPC whores -never- visit PC customers, don't interfere or compete with the business of PC whores.

I will say that I wholly disagree with this. My PCs tend to visit virtual whores, and pay virtual (or sometimes real) coin for their efforts, and thus doesn't have a dire need to have sex with anything vaguely hole-shaped. So. Virtual whores are absolutely taking work.

Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11533
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #46 on: December 01, 2017, 02:56:43 PM »
Once again - the VNPC whores are visiting VNPC customers and getting paid virtual pay for virtual work. VNPC whores -never- visit PC customers, don't interfere or compete with the business of PC whores.

I will say that I wholly disagree with this. My PCs tend to visit virtual whores, and pay virtual (or sometimes real) coin for their efforts, and thus doesn't have a dire need to have sex with anything vaguely hole-shaped. So. Virtual whores are absolutely taking work.

There isn't some sort of hard line between the virtual and the PC world, Lizzie. PCs are allowed to - and should - incorporate vNPCs into their story.
do you remember
when you were young and you wanted to set the world on fire?

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7510
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #47 on: December 01, 2017, 03:45:04 PM »
If all these players are sending their PCs to virtual whores instead of PC whores, then there's the solution to the "problem" that doesn't exist. Or maybe that's the problem. If you think playing a PC whore is hard and needs a solution, then stop sending your PCs to virtual whores.

I still don't see a problem that needs to be fixed, and I don't see creating a virtual customer base for a PC whore with coded pay is a solution to anything at all.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

satine

  • Posts: 292
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #48 on: December 01, 2017, 03:50:44 PM »
There are also organizations outside of kurac that will pay whores. You know the one.


I've played a prostitute in the past, and I suppose she was a fairly well known one while she was alive.
There are a number of IC ways to boost clientele.
1. offer deals for first time customers
2. hang out in taverns, be available for rp
3. go to events and give freebies to people that seem influential
4. hire people icly to spread rumors about how good you are
5. use the boards to publicize
6. offer many types of services
7. go to parties and gathering at taverns, be available
8. find in's with groups

there are infinite options, you just have to be creative.
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jmordetsky: so I reckon, before 1750, people were fuckin retarded

Malken

  • Posts: 9045
Re: Subsistence level work for courtesans, whores and the like?
« Reply #49 on: December 01, 2017, 04:08:36 PM »
TIL clown who do tricks with balloons and whores are not so different after all.
ďWhen I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horseís feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.Ē