Author Topic: Newest Karma Discussion  (Read 416 times)

seidhr

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Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #75 on: October 17, 2017, 12:24:35 PM »
Armageddon staff IN GENERAL are known for being dicks
Super constructive post dude.

Quote from: TheWanderer
The majority of you have never been closer to a psion or a sorcerer role than you are now, so it's just kind of odd to me to see so much ado about nothing. This is ultimately a good change.
The first sentence is 100% true.  Whether it's good or not, we don't know yet.  ;-)

ShaLeah

  • Posts: 4994
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #76 on: October 17, 2017, 12:40:27 PM »
The majority of you have never been closer to a psion or a sorcerer role than you are now

https://media.giphy.com/media/ndKWMoPb2jSlG/giphy.gif

A good way to think about these things is to tell yourself, if the shoe fits wear it but if it's YOUR shoe in the lost and found someone up there in Immland  TheWanderer is gonna let you know.
Quote from: Ourla
I would slather you in sin and roll you out the other side.
Quote from: Oryx
Shal is on point.
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And ShaLeah's evil, by the way.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5940
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #77 on: October 17, 2017, 12:41:01 PM »
When did the game become about special apps and karma anyway? This segment of discussion makes it seem like it is.

That was my concern with the earlier posts before the derail.  But I wasn't posting until all this shummigub (made up word, pretty cool huh) about mean people.

Quote
Go read the reviews on TMC and try to visualize the new player who has read those reviews but then decided to give the game a try anyway stumbling across these "joking" posts. It's going to validate everything negative they've heard before they ever get a chance to see you for a good guy and they're going to leave.

Those reviews, and things similar, have been there for 20 years.  Staff has always been the number one complaint of the game.  Sure, there was a several year period where staff were more actively trying to combat that, but it got thrown in their face...though arguably, that was because some staff had a really messed up vision of exclusion for the game to move towards.  Exclusion bad...not in terms of what you can and can't play (again, this has always been an imposed limit; it's not a personal one, it's a game oriented one.  Those roles simply require more.)  Any new player is going to have the same staff complaint the moment they ask for a few things and get turned down on them, just like everyone else does.

Armageddon staff IN GENERAL are known for being dicks
Super constructive post dude.

#worldssmallestfiddle
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #78 on: October 17, 2017, 12:52:32 PM »
It's a thread about the changes that have specifically been made to special apps (and indirectly, karma.) Of course people are going to be expressing their opinions about that, especially those who hold strong opinions about them. That doesn't mean they think that's all there is to the game.

LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 256
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #79 on: October 17, 2017, 01:18:22 PM »
I know what the thread is about and I know what strong opinions are. Iím pointing out that when people have strong opinions and strong opinions are based on things people care about. So it begs the question.
Just like the white winged dove,
Sings a song
Sounds like she's singing
Oooo,ooo, ooo

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #80 on: October 17, 2017, 01:20:57 PM »
I didn't mean to be condescending. My point is that that there are plenty of people who don't care about this. You are hearing from those that do care, and there are always bound to be some. That doesn't mean that the general perception is that the game is about karma and special apps. It doesn't even mean that we who are discussing this think that the game is about karma and special apps.

LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 256
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #81 on: October 17, 2017, 01:48:33 PM »
It was food for thought, not really directed at you. Although a ďfewĒ people feeling that way out of a pkayerbase....sorry, playerbase of roughly 30-40 numerically is a large portion of players. That actually makes me kind of sad when I think about it. 30-40% of the players at any given time couldnít possibly only care about playing the most powerful coded options possible could they?
Just like the white winged dove,
Sings a song
Sounds like she's singing
Oooo,ooo, ooo

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #82 on: October 17, 2017, 01:52:58 PM »
Is the playerbase really that low? I thought that was just the amount of people that tend to be logged in at a given time. And again, no, I don't "only" care about karma or special apps, and no one else has given me that impression, either. I would be SHOCKED if anyone here discussing this matter only cared about that. Even people who say they're discouraged enough to feel like they don't really want to play have other issues with the game besides just this. Your assessment is a huge exaggeration. "I'm upset about this" doesn't mean "This is literally the only thing I care about and the game is trash to me without it."

seidhr

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Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #83 on: October 17, 2017, 02:20:25 PM »
There's closer to 150 or 200 active players I think.  Naturally they aren't online all at the same time.

LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 256
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #84 on: October 17, 2017, 03:47:49 PM »
Iím upset about this, which in this case means not being able to play codedly powerful characters, kinda does mean what I care about the most in this game is karma and special apps. Damned near nakedly too just saying, if you want to go in circles about that, I can do it all day too. Nobody is going to admit they only play the game to play codedly powerful characters are they?

And again, Iím not directing this at you. Itís food for thought about the game and how weíre playing it, but I can only give my opinion based on other peopleís opinion because thatís what a discussion board is for. But if itís a Iím the vocal minority board, donít disagree with me because Iím entitled to my opinion board STFU!!! Iíll bow back out and go back to posting only in the clan forums and occasionally the ooc forum.
Just like the white winged dove,
Sings a song
Sounds like she's singing
Oooo,ooo, ooo

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #85 on: October 17, 2017, 03:57:57 PM »
OK, I feel like this is kind of fruitless, but I just don't see how being upset about a change means that's all you care about. Some people were upset about food spoilage code but I doubt they play the game just to hoard food.

Miradus

  • Posts: 1758
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #86 on: October 17, 2017, 04:07:11 PM »
OK, I feel like this is kind of fruitless, but I just don't see how being upset about a change means that's all you care about. Some people were upset about food spoilage code but I doubt they play the game just to hoard food.

Don't even try to defend your position. It's not worth it.

It's a completely bullshit statement to claim that because we're upset about one aspect then that's all we care about. It's a combination of ad hominem and ad absurdum in an attempt to shut down the discussion.

How about I counter that with my own bullshit statement?

The people who are telling us to relax about this are the ones who have enough karma to do anything in the game already and just want to control the access to their own special snowflake options.

Better?

WanderingOoze

  • Posts: 634
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #87 on: October 17, 2017, 04:07:33 PM »
.....I doubt they play the game just to hoard food.

There are other reasons to play?
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Hauwke

  • Posts: 1241
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #88 on: October 17, 2017, 04:14:39 PM »
Im telling you to relax and I have 1 karma. So eat it.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5940
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #89 on: October 17, 2017, 04:27:47 PM »
That's a mischaracterization, again.  We were talking about how important it was to you, as was easily gained through reading the posts.

The flattening of karma makes things more accessible than they were.  There are very few, percentage-wise, who gained the karma before to just be able to play this or that willy-nilly.  A goodly portion of those higher-level roles were special application only, usually after some amount of discussion to insure it was a good basis that would make the role contribute something to the game.

The tone is not 'This is all that's important to me'.  It's 'I should be able to look forward to being able to play whatever I want'.  It's a historically inaccurate portrayal of how karma has ever worked, and is being used to push for more progress despite this newest change actually making things easier to access.

Stop getting up in arms over everything.  You'll be able to play things just fine, you'll probably just have to go through the same process the rest of us had to, but with a better baseline to push off of.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Malken

  • Posts: 9037
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #90 on: October 17, 2017, 04:34:40 PM »
Nobody is going to admit they only play the game to play codedly powerful characters are they?

Pretty sure I never tried to hide that fact.
ďWhen I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horseís feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.Ē

chrisdcoulombe

  • Posts: 1051
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #91 on: October 17, 2017, 04:37:34 PM »
I'd like to see way more sorcerers in the game.  We need the villainy.
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Miradus

  • Posts: 1758
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #92 on: October 17, 2017, 04:45:07 PM »
Im telling you to relax and I have 1 karma. So eat it.

You're a fucking nobody.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5940
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #93 on: October 17, 2017, 04:47:40 PM »
Let me try to elaborate better, if you've got the patience to read through it.  You don't have to agree, but you should realize that the assertion/assumption wasn't a personal attack, more of a lamentation.

Karma, historically, was a static number, but with a lot of tiers.  Some people naturally developed their way up the karma ladder because -every- role they played, whether it be magickal, mundane, city or wilderness, they found a way to greatly impact the game in positive ways.  Some of the rest of us never got high up in the karma ladder because we didn't exhibit that quality; it isn't that I -can't- contribute greatly to the game, it's that sometimes my roles aren't meant to do anything more than podunk around and do my own thing.

This didn't limit me from playing higher karma roles; it just made it so that I needed to give a short presentation on why I should be able to.  That didn't put me below others, it just meant I had to express the interest in them.  Even people with 8 karma still got rejected applications based on current populations of things, because there is a balance to maintain in the game world to insure things don't get out of control; this is why they added in expenditures of karma instead of the static number, I assume, in order to make it more automated and require less attention to how long people are living, etc.  The announcement that there was a huge queue for these roles is telling, because that wasn't normally the case before even with more active players.

Now, the reason why some are disappointed with the view that was being vaguely alluded to wasn't because we're calling anyone lower-quality players.  It's just not a full understanding of that balance and what karma has been referenced as in the past.  In essence, the viewpoint of it as an all out blockade on you is going to be a -constant- hurdle for you until such a point that you have it all, and then you'll likely be dissatisfied with expenditures and the two special-app only roles.

The outline for what earns you karma was meant to demonstrate what it takes to 'consistently enrich the game' in a way that removes limitation of those roles, not what it takes to be a good roleplayer.  Things have now been shifted to make karma options more accessible, not less accessible, and so seeing that some are still viewing it as a ranking system to be climbed is a little bit worrying as to -why- someone wants to be able to play certain things consistently enough that the special application process isn't enough.  The special application process is just...how many, if not most, of us got to play those more powerful things, and it was always, -always- a time investment.  This new setup isn't alarming, it's...kinda relaxing things, by that standard.  Relaxing things to a point that I'm actually a little concerned about that balance maintenance, so I'd like to see how this plays out before everyone starts ragging on it as putting things out of reach.

Some things are necessarily out of reach the majority of the time.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1241
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #94 on: October 17, 2017, 04:53:43 PM »
Im telling you to relax and I have 1 karma. So eat it.

You're a fucking nobody.

Sure, in a sea of other nobodies.

Akariel

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 459
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #95 on: October 17, 2017, 04:57:50 PM »
Because I didn't want to go through the last three pages to pick through all the flames, this thread is now locked. Please stop flaming each other, we are all members of the same community that enjoys a text-based game.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5940
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #96 on: October 17, 2017, 05:06:26 PM »
You guys locked the wrong one. XD
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Nathvaan

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Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #97 on: October 17, 2017, 05:10:34 PM »
Newp. You posted between the spit and when we got them locked the right way!