Author Topic: Newest Karma Discussion  (Read 417 times)

650Booger

  • Posts: 376
Newest Karma Discussion
« on: October 14, 2017, 04:39:32 PM »
Forward momentum on the Karma front.  I like these changes, although I see my chances of ever getting to play the coveted sorc and psion roles probably even further diminished.  Thanks to staff for volunteering their time and energy redoing the system, its probably not as fun as other things they might be doing.

hopefully soon karma reviews open back up!  amirite?
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2017, 04:47:00 PM »
Not that I'm able to apply for such roles, but I hope that when they say you can't play a psion or sorcerer without using their specific skills, they don't mean you have to immediately jump in and start using them. I like the idea of discovering/learning abilities over time, especially with sorcs, since according to the lore sorcery is learned rather than innate. The quest to learn sorcery could be an amazing plot, but I don't imagine it would be a quick process.

Since you can't actually have a non-sorc PC learn sorcery through IC events anymore as far as I know, I've always wanted to have a PC who technically has a sorcery subguild but ICly has to unlock that potential, since that seems to be the only path to learning sorcery IG. Now I'm afraid it's impossible to do even that :/ although maybe that could be set up with staff as well?

I'm also really eager to get karma reviews set up again. I know there's going to be a huge rush of karma review requests that come in and staff is probably none too eager to start sorting through them, but I've been trying for a long time to prove that I deserve my recently lost karma point back and I reeeeeally want the opportunity to inquire about it.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2579
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2017, 10:11:09 PM »
Not that I'm able to apply for such roles, but I hope that when they say you can't play a psion or sorcerer without using their specific skills, they don't mean you have to immediately jump in and start using them. I like the idea of discovering/learning abilities over time, especially with sorcs, since according to the lore sorcery is learned rather than innate. The quest to learn sorcery could be an amazing plot, but I don't imagine it would be a quick process.

Since you can't actually have a non-sorc PC learn sorcery through IC events anymore as far as I know, I've always wanted to have a PC who technically has a sorcery subguild but ICly has to unlock that potential, since that seems to be the only path to learning sorcery IG. Now I'm afraid it's impossible to do even that :/ although maybe that could be set up with staff as well?

I'm also really eager to get karma reviews set up again. I know there's going to be a huge rush of karma review requests that come in and staff is probably none too eager to start sorting through them, but I've been trying for a long time to prove that I deserve my recently lost karma point back and I reeeeeally want the opportunity to inquire about it.

Sorcerers start with their magick. So I'm guessing it's implied that either through:
A: Cosmic power/random events that are super magick (I've heard of this working as a background before)
B: You are an apprentice to another sorcerer.

"Since you can't actually have a non-sorc PC learn sorcery through IC events anymore as far as I know,"
I'm pretty sure you can try and get results if you find a sorcerer and learn from them.

But if you made a "I want to learn sorcery" character and made them a sorcerer you'd have the same problem elementalists who haven't manifested have. (removed to protect the innocent - seidhr)
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 12:08:00 AM by seidhr »
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

seidhr

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 452
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2017, 12:07:17 AM »
Yeah you guys are on the right track with why the decision was made on that front.

It was a discussion between allowing for that (sometimes) cool buildup RP to happen about an individual's magick or psionic abilities becoming awakened - or giving the entire world a potential adversary, while also respecting that when we have tons of people wanting to play these roles and keep having to turn them away because Joe-Blow-Sorc is sitting around in taverns and holding one of the coveted spots while also not really much with the role beyond what they could do as a vanilla character.

@Jihelu that's IC stuff, don't talk about it.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2579
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #4 on: October 15, 2017, 12:32:51 AM »
Yeah you guys are on the right track with why the decision was made on that front.

It was a discussion between allowing for that (sometimes) cool buildup RP to happen about an individual's magick or psionic abilities becoming awakened - or giving the entire world a potential adversary, while also respecting that when we have tons of people wanting to play these roles and keep having to turn them away because Joe-Blow-Sorc is sitting around in taverns and holding one of the coveted spots while also not really much with the role beyond what they could do as a vanilla character.

@Jihelu that's IC stuff, don't talk about it.
Sorry!
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #5 on: October 15, 2017, 12:38:36 AM »
Well, could a short build-up still be allowed?

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2579
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #6 on: October 15, 2017, 12:39:15 AM »
Well, could a short build-up still be allowed?
I'm going to guess that they work somewhat closer to the way elementalists work in which case they don't have all their spells at start, not sure if this is meta info I imagine not basic skills work the same way, so there is a build up.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #7 on: October 15, 2017, 12:40:42 AM »
Yeah, of course, but that's not what I mean.  I mean are you allowed to wait just a little bit before discovering your powers, even if you're not allowed to wait very long? Maybe players could be given a deadline to begin using them.

EDIT: Maybe this could even be set up with staff ahead of time, if they'd allow it. You could spec app this concept and be approved as an "extra" sorc or psi with the understanding that your PC is technically capable of developing these powers, but they won't be granted to you until there's another open slot, when and IF that happens. Then suddenly you wake up and they're on your skill list and you know you have a couple of weeks to figure out how to start working them into your RP. I dunno, it's kind of a clumsy and probably unnecessary solution, but I'm just looking for ways to make more interesting plot options available without the squatting issue.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 12:50:48 AM by sleepyhead »

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2579
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #8 on: October 15, 2017, 12:48:18 AM »
Yeah, of course, but that's not what I mean.  I mean are you allowed to wait just a little bit before discovering your powers, even if you're not allowed to wait very long? Maybe players could be given a deadline to begin using them.
I imagine staff means more about people who would play a sorcerer like someone plays an unmanifested elementalist.

Going on years and years before manifesting and the like.
I'm sure if you start off knowing 'yer a wizard harry' they'll be fine, even if you 'suck' at it and go through your own ic learning.
Then again I'm not staff. I'm sure they'll comment on what they mean.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #9 on: October 15, 2017, 12:52:23 AM »
Well, it's probably never going to affect me because I'm not sure if I'll ever have 3 karma, but I prefer playing out the "yer a wizard harry" thing IG and wish there was a way to figure out how to do that without having people greedily hogging coveted, limited roles they're not actually using.

seidhr

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 452
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #10 on: October 15, 2017, 01:43:19 AM »
A short build up would probably be okay, but yes the gist of the rule change is that you should not not sit around unmanifested.  We'd rather have our sorcs be sorcs and our benders be benders.  Notice that the announcement does say that if you have something in mind, you can mention it in your special app.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #11 on: October 15, 2017, 01:54:00 AM »
Thanks for all the answers!

Just one more:

If someone asked for say, a single psi skill in a spec app, would that be something that would require 3 karma? Would it count as far as the hard limit goes? Might it depend on the skill?

seidhr

  • Administrator
  • Posts: 452
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2017, 03:35:29 AM »
Thanks for all the answers!

Just one more:

If someone asked for say, a single psi skill in a spec app, would that be something that would require 3 karma? Would it count as far as the hard limit goes? Might it depend on the skill?

That's not a question I can answer, it would have to be discussed amongst the staff.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 212
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2017, 09:14:55 AM »
Understood. Thanks

Miradus

  • Posts: 1758
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2017, 10:14:49 AM »
Forward momentum on the Karma front. 

Yeah. Like watching the bus you wanted to be on gain forward momentum as you chase after it.

Since I started this game it's been a constant procession of rolled back potential. You can play this in 2 more years ... oh wait ... we have completely redesigned everything and put you back at the bottom. And now we've pushed things back yet further. You're welcome.


palomar

  • Posts: 2145
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2017, 03:08:20 PM »
Forward momentum on the Karma front. 

Yeah. Like watching the bus you wanted to be on gain forward momentum as you chase after it.

Since I started this game it's been a constant procession of rolled back potential. You can play this in 2 more years ... oh wait ... we have completely redesigned everything and put you back at the bottom. And now we've pushed things back yet further. You're welcome.

You need 2 Karma (3 Karma in the old system) to be able to play every available race/guild except psionicist and sorcerer. I don't see how that's rolled back potential? Removal of full magicker guilds, Nilazi, Elkrans and Drovians have nothing to do with the Karma system as such (and yes, I miss them too).

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1877
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2017, 03:53:04 PM »
since when did you start back at the bottom?
I could give a shit about wholesome.

tapas

  • Posts: 149
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2017, 04:00:17 PM »
Please respect players who want to play the role their way.

Insisting players use skills that are dangerous and difficult to use is pointless and silly. Getting sniffed is already easy enough.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2017, 04:03:11 PM by tapas »

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1877
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2017, 04:05:47 PM »
sure, respect them if they want to play the role their way, but if they're -just- playing a mundane who's sitting on a bunch of super special skills that other people want to use, i think it's within staff's right to draw a line and go "play a mundane if you're going to play a mundane".
I could give a shit about wholesome.

tapas

  • Posts: 149
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2017, 04:13:14 PM »
I'd be fine with a rule that means I need to manifest and be active by 3 months. But this policy just means I'm going to get ragged on by staff because they don't like how I play.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1877
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2017, 04:13:57 PM »
then play a mundane.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

ghanima

  • Posts: 52
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2017, 04:31:52 PM »
I'd be fine with a rule that means I need to manifest and be active by 3 months. But this policy just means I'm going to get ragged on by staff because they don't like how I play.

Yeah like the cabbage says just play a mundane, problem solved.

Or take a step back, chillax, and understand that staff aren't going to jump down your throat for not casting a spell in your first week or some other super arbitrary super short period of time. We don't need to institute strict guidelines that dictate the exact moment you've "crossed the line", be it 2 weeks, 3 weeks etc. It's simple enough to me. Don't sit in the role and leave it unused for months on end.

650Booger

  • Posts: 376
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2017, 04:41:01 PM »
i think the psion/sorc should be given enough time to develop a cover story, like joining the arm or getting an aide job or something, before beginning use of their skills.  that should't take longer than a week or two.
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

Vex

  • Posts: 29
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2017, 04:54:10 PM »
Forward momentum on the Karma front. 

Yeah. Like watching the bus you wanted to be on gain forward momentum as you chase after it.

Since I started this game it's been a constant procession of rolled back potential. You can play this in 2 more years ... oh wait ... we have completely redesigned everything and put you back at the bottom. And now we've pushed things back yet further. You're welcome.

This is the only game I have ever played, where you're required to sit around and do things that barely interest you, for RL years, before you're even considered good enough for the things, that are actually interesting to you. Now, you can't even ask for karma, because that was closed down, for an indeterminate time, so some people enjoy all the toys in the toy box, while anyone new, gets nothing.

The whole thing, it stinks, it really does.
"Mortals do drown so."

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1241
Re: Newest Karma Discussion
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2017, 05:48:54 PM »
If it takes you an RL year to get good enough to be even slightly useful. You are doing things horrendously wrong. Join the Byn, be useful in less than a month of decent playtimes.

Want to be useful socially? Oh, there is this thing called the Atrium you can now join. Oh, but you rolled an elf. Yeah who wanted to be useful anyway because you are scum.


Things take a scope of weeks in this game folks. Not years.