Author Topic: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.  (Read 1760 times)

Dresan

  • Posts: 1159
Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« on: September 20, 2017, 06:43:00 PM »
A couple moons ago, spice was changed so that it would be cheaper. I can only assume this was done to make it more tempting to use. I always wanted to see spice become the third staple, along with food and water. I'm curious if people feel spice is in a different state then it used to be before the change?

My main issue with spice is it has never been convenient to use. It should last at least a day, that way you can take it before you day begins and not have to worry about your high coming down in the middle of battle. My character wouldn't even mind paying more for a better type of spice that wasn't considered a re-recreational drug but a potent steroid, heck even if the additional benefit was that you didn't feel you need to RP foaming from the mouth soon after taking it.

Some additional ideas would be:
1. Usable spice should be created from the raw material found near the silt sea. It shouldn't be ready to use right off the ground.
2. The amount of spice you can smoke or snort should be govern by your initial endurance. A regular person should be able to snort one or two, with dwarves or above average folk hitting three and even four times before they pass out.  Only to wake when the spice they've snorted has passed through their system.  (Half-giants would be a special case, high endurance but also huge body to balance it.)
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gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 446
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 07:25:23 PM »
Could we also get categories of spice addiction. I've heard horror stories of becoming useless overnight due to an insane stat reduction with zero warning.

I think spice could use an overhaul and would welcome it.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7510
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 08:23:03 PM »
I'd like to see the use of raw spice treated codedly and culturally as "less civilized" as processed spice.

If you snort "x" times within "y" period of time, you run a risk of a nosebleed (HP loss).
If you snort "x+" times within "y" period of time, you will definitely get a nosebleed, with a risk of higher severity.
If you snort "x++" times, you get a really bad nosebleed, plus a temporary reduced HP max.
If you snort "x+++" within "y" time frame, really bad nosebleed, plus permanent reduced HP max.

Same with smoking - except you'd cough up blood.

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James de Monet

  • Posts: 3252
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 08:29:51 PM »
Dresan, I assume you're already aware, but I can't quite tell from context, so just in case, I want to point out that there is already a difference (ICly and perhaps OOCly) between unprocessed (grain) spice and processed (pinch / shaved) spice.

Edited to add: I like Lizzie's idea of nosebleeds.  Simple, non-crippling reminder that grain spice is the crack equivalent of Zalanthas.  I put an RP random effect table in the Hardmode Armageddon Tables for using grain spice, if you feel like imposing those things on your own PCs with a random die roll as arbiter.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 08:39:17 PM by James de Monet »
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 446
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 08:36:51 PM »
I'd like to see the use of raw spice treated codedly and culturally as "less civilized" as processed spice.

If you snort "x" times within "y" period of time, you run a risk of a nosebleed (HP loss).
If you snort "x+" times within "y" period of time, you will definitely get a nosebleed, with a risk of higher severity.
If you snort "x++" times, you get a really bad nosebleed, plus a temporary reduced HP max.
If you snort "x+++" within "y" time frame, really bad nosebleed, plus permanent reduced HP max.

Same with smoking - except you'd cough up blood.

This seems a bit excessive for it to have a chance at reducing HP right off the bat. Perhaps a few emotes and other effects before it straight up equals a glancing stab. I do like the idea of chanced compounding effects.
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Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1875
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 09:18:27 PM »
Smoking raw spice could be messy and crude. It could leave black residue in pipes forever claiming them with its mark. Nosebleeds is a good idea for sniffing raw spice.

Smoking or sniffing refined spice could have the side effects reduced somehow.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7510
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 09:19:26 PM »
I'd like to see the use of raw spice treated codedly and culturally as "less civilized" as processed spice.

If you snort "x" times within "y" period of time, you run a risk of a nosebleed (HP loss).
If you snort "x+" times within "y" period of time, you will definitely get a nosebleed, with a risk of higher severity.
If you snort "x++" times, you get a really bad nosebleed, plus a temporary reduced HP max.
If you snort "x+++" within "y" time frame, really bad nosebleed, plus permanent reduced HP max.

Same with smoking - except you'd cough up blood.

This seems a bit excessive for it to have a chance at reducing HP right off the bat. Perhaps a few emotes and other effects before it straight up equals a glancing stab. I do like the idea of chanced compounding effects.

It's not "right off the bat." As I said - After "x" snorts within "y" period of time. I didn't specify, because it'd be up to the staff to figure out what's reasonable or not. But if you want a hypothetical of the hypothetical..

After you've had your 5th consecutive snort of raw, unprocessed spice within a 48-hour real-time period of time..you'd run a 40% chance of a nosebleed with a 5-point hp loss.

If you've had your 6th-10th consecutive snort of raw, unprocessed spice within the same 48-hour real-time period of time, you'd have a 100% chance of a nosebleed, with a 5-point HP loss, plus a 40% chance of additional HP loss of 5-10 more HP.

And so on and so forth, with stacking penalties for longer durations.
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Jihelu

  • Posts: 2581
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 09:29:17 PM »
I don't think a permanent hp loss would be fine, otherwise drinking too much should incur perma wisdom loss or something.

I do like the idea of it starting to hurt you.
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evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1897
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 10:02:53 PM »
i don't know if you've ever drank, but i don't know of many cases where drinking all the time would permanently damage your brain. it can damage your brain, sure, but if you stop drinking these effects will eventually (most likely) go away.
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Jihelu

  • Posts: 2581
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 10:13:07 PM »
i don't know if you've ever drank, but i don't know of many cases where drinking all the time would permanently damage your brain. it can damage your brain, sure, but if you stop drinking these effects will eventually (most likely) go away.
(I actually don't know much about fucking one's self up on alcohol/drugs but it was mostly an example pls sir)

I still don't like 'perma fucked' effects.
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Delirium

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 10:18:40 PM »
If your aim is to get more PCs to use spice, the risk of permanent damage is probably not gonna do it. ;)
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gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 446
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 12:21:06 AM »
If your aim is to get more PCs to use spice, the risk of permanent damage is probably not gonna do it. ;)

I agree.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7510
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 06:54:09 AM »
I was actually thinking of giving spice more of a down-side than it has, to make people who use it regularly and rely on it to boost their stats, to have consequences for those stat boosts other than having to sit in a bar for an hour while the wearing-off period occurs.

It's pretty common from my perspective to see people who get ready for a simple hunt, or patrol, or fun ride around their turf, by snorting " a few of each" before leaving their tents/camp/gates. They don't even think about it. They don't even know if they'll need it at any point during their ride/walk.

I don't think it should be that commonplace, that it becomes an expected and practically required part of a journey. It should ever get to the point where if you do NOT spice up for a trip, people want to know why.

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Delirium

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 08:36:08 AM »
Sounds like working as intended. I don't want to get into code specifics too much but if they're really using it every day like that they absolutely will get addicted over time.
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Riev

  • Posts: 4827
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 09:19:52 AM »
My only issue with ever trying to sling spice, is that unless it has a coded effect, many of the code-focused players are not interested. The RP-effect spices are pretty great, but you have to be like 'in the mood' to RP it out and run the risk of being caught in Allanak, for doing something that just makes you feel happy.

So when you try to tell someone you can help them sleep at night, or have better dreams, etc etc... nobody cares, because PCs don't sleep. The RP-focused players tend to already have a 'connection', and the code-focused ones don't want boosted stats until they are MasterCombatWow.
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Harmless

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 09:43:08 AM »
Once played a PC who would regularly smoke before a hunt. Didnt take long before stats were tanking. No need to make more negative effects of spice or to change code to make them happen sooner. Nosebleeds sound mostly cosmetic so no problem there.

Spice should wear off while logged off.
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nauta

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 09:46:26 AM »
My main issue with spice is it has never been convenient to use.

Two elephants in the room:

1. Spice is illegal in Allanak.  This likely won't ever change.  However, the crimcode being what it is at the gates (vague and when it is triggered swift and brutal), coupled with the fact that it is very easy to forget you had a tube of spice on you, has lead me to avoid that complication.

Solution: Be explicit in documentation about what the crimcode response is if you are caught with X amount of spice coming into the gates.

2. PC delivery mechanism.  In Allanak (outside the rinth), the only way to get spice is to ask a PC.  As with any PC-based mechanism, your chance of finding one, finding one that wants to talk to you, and then coordinating your playtimes will be a kind of mileage may vary type of thing.

Solution: Provide access to a spice vendor southside or access to the one that is northside.  This vendor should charge a lot more than the PC would charge.

While my Luir's-based and tribal PCs have smoked a lot, (1) and (2) combined have made it pretty daunting to RP a spice addict (or even casual user) in southside Allanak.
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Inks

  • Posts: 1098
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 10:19:12 AM »
I've been a heavy addict in the past...ig that is. It is fine, but it will mess you up more and more. Spice is good as is, codedly and rply, there are spices without the horrific comedowns if you use heavily and want to do that spice addict thing without major repercussions (you softie twink). TL:DR = Spice is great both rp and codedly already, real heroes don't do drugs. Keep it as is.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 10:44:12 AM by Inks »
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FamousAmos

  • Posts: 247
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2017, 10:52:19 AM »
I suggest to use the hungry code. Like what happens when you're famished, but then used when one smokes too much spice in a short amount of time. But perhaps a combo of increased Stun and decreased Stam for x amount of time.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1875
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2017, 12:06:52 PM »
It'd be cool if addicts received messages like. "You are dying for some spice!" Or other appropriate messages to communicate to the player the level of their character's coded addiction.

Vex

  • Posts: 36
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2017, 05:57:03 PM »
It's pretty common from my perspective to see people who get ready for a simple hunt, or patrol, or fun ride around their turf, by snorting " a few of each" before leaving their tents/camp/gates. They don't even think about it. They don't even know if they'll need it at any point during their ride/walk.

I don't think it should be that commonplace, that it becomes an expected and practically required part of a journey. It should ever get to the point where if you do NOT spice up for a trip, people want to know why.

There is no way people are using "a few of each", every time they go out.

With how spice works, and how long it takes for the residual effect to wear off, if they were to take a few of each stat spice, they would be so deep in stat loss, as to be crippled for extensive periods of RL time. Really, it seems coded in a way that prevents anyone, from using spice to run around with buffed stats all the time.

And even rolling around, with the clans who have spice to burn, for basically nothing, I have never seen spice used in the way you describe. To me, it sounds completely made up.
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Dar

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2017, 12:45:55 AM »
The unfortunate fact is that spice lasts such a short time that any use for improving oneself across the entire hunt/patrol/etc is impractical and is simply not done. I've employed spice to ... help myself carry things when moving places. Or before an important theft, or before an important backstab. But only when the target was stationary and I've had my pick of the correct time. The moment 'time' becomes an unknown variable, I strike the use of spice out completely. The length of spice duration is so short, that in my experience, I was more often left stuck with its side effects, when the RPT finally approached the risky part and all in all, in my general experience, out of 100 situations where spice would've been useful, I used t once.

All in all, in my general rp, the only way I value spice is for it's entertainment value. Tho during private conversations in other words and that is very situational. I've lost count to situations when I was a part of a group that thrived on rough and tumble and I made sure that our hide out had a healthy supply of every warspice and ... it's never ever EVER used, because nobody wants to use it, even when it's free to take.

So judge for yourself, whether or not it should be used.

PS: The situation that was described higher in the thread? About people snorting some spice before each hunt? Never happens. I'm sorry.

Veselka

  • Posts: 302
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2017, 01:53:11 AM »
Only Sith speak in absolutes. While I don't think it happens 'never' or 'always', it certainly happens sometimes. I don't think that's a bad thing -- I think people with access to drugs and who are drug users should be using drugs. But I do think the effects could be more tilted. Stronger strongs, lower lows. Longer length of time on the high, but maybe a period of recovery where you aren't so useful. Already kind of reflected with stat reductions.

Definitely think you should sober up while offline, same as booze.

Doublepalli

  • Posts: 262
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2017, 01:24:21 PM »
Let's be honest. No one but nobles buy spice in allanak!

Riev

  • Posts: 4827
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 01:33:51 PM »
Let's be honest. No one but nobles buy spice in allanak!

There was a time, LONG ago under different staff, where I was told by an entire clan (with a wagon/argosy) that they "didn't need to buy from me" because they "just put it in some trunks and stuffed it away in the wagon after a trip to the Outpost". Like, in character, they told me they were doing the smuggling themselves. Then staff said "No they don't because they're not allowed to do that anymore."

I never did get to sell spice to them.
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nauta

  • Posts: 2239
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #25 on: September 22, 2017, 01:40:42 PM »
PS: The situation that was described higher in the thread? About people snorting some spice before each hunt? Never happens. I'm sorry.

I haven't yet learned the coded benefits of spice, although I can guess at them from the help files.  However, that said, in the last two years I've had three occasions where the group I was with spiced up with war spice before heading out to war (or battle) -- and it made perfect IC sense to do so.

So it does happen.  Now whether the spice had an effect on our stats or it was just RP, or whether we all tanked in our stats afterwards, I have no idea about since I wasn't paying close enough attention.  But there's nothing more fun than snorting a bunch of spice and sallying ho!

(Outside those cases, I've mostly played my spice use as coping and not warring - it is a harsh desert planet, so spice and booze your way through life.)
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Riev

  • Posts: 4827
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #26 on: September 22, 2017, 02:02:02 PM »
I feel like that is part of the struggle, that even the coded effects of spice aren't "gud enuff" to warrant using because of the harsh comedowns and people who are code-focused not wanting to voluntarily 'lose stats'.

On the flipside, its an RP prop, and Kadius is FULL of RP props that nobody buys.
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Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1875
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2017, 02:45:51 PM »
Let's be honest. No one but nobles buy spice in allanak!

There was a time, LONG ago under different staff, where I was told by an entire clan (with a wagon/argosy) that they "didn't need to buy from me" because they "just put it in some trunks and stuffed it away in the wagon after a trip to the Outpost". Like, in character, they told me they were doing the smuggling themselves. Then staff said "No they don't because they're not allowed to do that anymore."

I never did get to sell spice to them.

It'd be cool if the militia stopped the occasional player's wagon and searched it for spice (or use it as a pretense to otherwise hassle someone).

Riev

  • Posts: 4827
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #28 on: September 22, 2017, 02:57:31 PM »
Its happened before but that usually requires someone of high enough rank to be ABLE to stop an entire Argosy worth of materials at the gate for inspection.

I like to think it happens virtually, or that there are echos.

I would love to see occasional wagon-yard inspections. Arm of the Dragon just raiding some Kadian wagon because they heard the new "Plushie Gwoshie" toys are smuggling in spice.
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Doublepalli

  • Posts: 262
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #29 on: September 22, 2017, 03:26:12 PM »
Let's be honest. No one but nobles buy spice in allanak!

There was a time, LONG ago under different staff, where I was told by an entire clan (with a wagon/argosy) that they "didn't need to buy from me" because they "just put it in some trunks and stuffed it away in the wagon after a trip to the Outpost". Like, in character, they told me they were doing the smuggling themselves. Then staff said "No they don't because they're not allowed to do that anymore."

I never did get to sell spice to them.

I actually remember this..

Dresan

  • Posts: 1159
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #30 on: September 22, 2017, 09:32:43 PM »
I have no problem seeing raw spice become even less desirable to use. However, I still would have loved to see kuraci spice be more tempting to use.

Unless you are playing a character specifically with an spice addiction (instead of drinking, sex addiction,etc) there is no real temptation to use spice except for recreational fun once in a while.This especially  true in allanak since the short duration usually means it wears out before it is even useful. 


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Hauwke

  • Posts: 1335
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #31 on: September 22, 2017, 10:28:50 PM »
The only reason people dont use spice frequantly in Allanak, is because it is illegal. Everyone uses heaps of booze, to the point where some people are codedly able to outdrink a halfgiant (which is absurd).

TheGoose

  • Posts: 127
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #32 on: September 26, 2017, 03:08:52 PM »
...Oh geeze. Okay. I haven't caught up with the comments here, but please do keep in mind that most people's understanding of Real Life drug use is heavily colored by propaganda and the unfortunate consequences of prohibition.

It is very difficult to do permanent damage to yourself with drugs. Certainly not impossible, but you're not going to drive yourself perma nuts binging meth for a month. Seriously. Sleep a few days and stop doing meth, you'll be fine.

You have to be doing an insane amount of most drugs to do anything permanent to yourself, and spice should probably reflect that.

650Booger

  • Posts: 397
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #33 on: September 26, 2017, 04:51:18 PM »
...Oh geeze. Okay. I haven't caught up with the comments here, but please do keep in mind that most people's understanding of Real Life drug use is heavily colored by propaganda and the unfortunate consequences of prohibition.

It is very difficult to do permanent damage to yourself with drugs. Certainly not impossible, but you're not going to drive yourself perma nuts binging meth for a month. Seriously. Sleep a few days and stop doing meth, you'll be fine.

You have to be doing an insane amount of most drugs to do anything permanent to yourself, and spice should probably reflect that.

sorry but this is really bad advice!

don't do drugs, kids.

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WarriorPoet

  • Posts: 4487
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #34 on: September 26, 2017, 04:59:08 PM »
I am a casual and sometimes not so casual drug addict.

Despite being hideously ugly I am pretty high functioning despite thoroughly abusing myself or 20 years.
We were somewhere near the Shield Wall, on the edge of the Red Desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

650Booger

  • Posts: 397
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #35 on: September 26, 2017, 05:02:40 PM »
are we talking about meth?  the quote was about meth.  if you've been a heavy meth user for 20 years and are still high functioning, you are the extreme exception to the rule.
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tapas

  • Posts: 160
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #36 on: September 26, 2017, 09:57:26 PM »
The reason street meth is considered dangerous is that the potential for abuse is huge and the drug is often laced with impurities from the meth lab that is just bad for you.

But there are millions of people that use a similar product at smaller doses to either enhance performance or curb the symptoms of ADHD. And they do it for years without suffering addictive symptoms.

The difference between the two is basically dosage, temperance, and social stigma.

chrisdcoulombe

  • Posts: 1068
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #37 on: September 27, 2017, 01:04:25 PM »
There are significant coded effects from spice and after coming down there are some temporary coded defects with certain types.  It would be cool to have addiction code though.   
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650Booger

  • Posts: 397
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #38 on: September 27, 2017, 06:26:37 PM »
The reason street meth is considered dangerous is that the potential for abuse is huge and the drug is often laced with impurities from the meth lab that is just bad for you.

But there are millions of people that use a similar product at smaller doses to either enhance performance or curb the symptoms of ADHD. And they do it for years without suffering addictive symptoms.

The difference between the two is basically dosage, temperance, and social stigma.

I can see I've lost this debate.  fine.  meth is awesome.  smoke dat ice brah.
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boog

  • Posts: 10499
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #39 on: September 27, 2017, 09:43:54 PM »
The reason street meth is considered dangerous is that the potential for abuse is huge and the drug is often laced with impurities from the meth lab that is just bad for you.

But there are millions of people that use a similar product at smaller doses to either enhance performance or curb the symptoms of ADHD. And they do it for years without suffering addictive symptoms.

The difference between the two is basically dosage, temperance, and social stigma.

I can see I've lost this debate.  fine.  meth is awesome.  smoke dat ice brah.

Hyuck, okay.

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manipura

  • Posts: 1504
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #40 on: September 27, 2017, 10:17:48 PM »
Laying off the meth and getting a few days of some really decent sleep will fix that person up, good as new!  ;D

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1335
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #41 on: September 27, 2017, 10:22:42 PM »
In all fairness, those teeth dont even look like teeth. The hell is a molar doing where an incisor should be?

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 446
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #42 on: September 27, 2017, 10:44:17 PM »
I don't really understand this derail. Spice =/= Meth. Arm =/= real life. If they coded in soothing that made spice permanently fuck your character no one would use it. Doesn't lashing cause permanent HP loss after a while, but most PC store after that happens so it's somewhat of a rarity?

I really wish this community would get over this "But it's not realistic" kick. I play a fantasy game because it isn't realistic, and so do you. Realism is not equal to fun, but often in video games translates into tedium.

I imagine if we made spice more useful to players in the game people would use it more. Yes, the argument that drugs aren't "necessarily" useful IRL is valid, however you're not running around and chopping up giant bugs with hunks of stone, so as far as I can tell your point is moot.
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James de Monet

  • Posts: 3252
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #43 on: September 28, 2017, 05:23:43 AM »
I'm far from an expert, and this excerpt is from drugabuse.gov (which is to say, if an article was going to include propaganda, this would be it), but....FWIW (emphasis mine)

Quote
Some of the neurobiological effects of chronic methamphetamine abuse appear to be at least partially reversible. In the aforementioned study, abstinence from methamphetamine resulted in less excess microglial activation over time, and abusers who had remained methamphetamine- free for 2 years exhibited microglial activation levels similar to the studyís control subjects. Another neuroimaging study showed neuronal recovery in some brain regions following prolonged abstinence (14 but not 6 months). This recovery was associated with improved performance on motor and verbal memory tests. But function in other brain regions did not recover even after 14 months of abstinence, indicating that some methamphetamine induced changes are very long lasting. Moreover, methamphetamine use can increase oneís risk of stroke, which can cause irreversible damage to the brain. A recent study even showed higher incidence of Parkinsonís disease among past users of methamphetamine.

Meth isn't a "sleep it off" kind of drug.  And dopamine transporters are your friends.  Those are how you experience pleasure.  If I was going to violently assault part of my brain with a chemical hammer, it wouldn't be that part.
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1875
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #44 on: September 28, 2017, 09:27:34 AM »
Is spice based on RL substances, or is it based on spice from Dune?

I want spice to let my character see the future, if it makes his/her teeth fall out, I guess they'll have to deal with that.

I figure no matter what, spice in Zalanthas is a fictional substance in a fantasy setting and hope the authors of the game world don't limit themselves (and the game) with real world constraints.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 09:34:09 AM by Molten Heart »

evilcabbage

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #45 on: September 28, 2017, 10:32:39 AM »
i believe it's more like dune spice.

afaik your teeth won't fall out.

but you won't see the future either, unless staff intervenes a bit.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

WarriorPoet

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #46 on: September 28, 2017, 07:18:28 PM »
I just want gnarly blue eyes.

Score.
We were somewhere near the Shield Wall, on the edge of the Red Desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

Marc

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #47 on: September 28, 2017, 07:43:32 PM »
Glowing blue eyes require a spec app.  White walker

Edited to add:  why not remove the gate search?  More casual usage if you wonít be disemboweled for carrying some spice to devotions
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 07:45:06 PM by Marc »
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I don't really have a problem with drugs OR sex
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gotdamnmiracle

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #48 on: September 28, 2017, 09:02:21 PM »
Glowing blue eyes require a spec app.  White walker

Edited to add:  why not remove the gate search?  More casual usage if you wonít be disemboweled for carrying some spice to devotions

Eh. I think the gate search is fine. As it stands you can slip past with a good chunk, so long as you have the coin to pay it forward.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Vex

  • Posts: 36
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #49 on: September 28, 2017, 09:06:38 PM »
If we wanted spice to be more common, the best incentive, I think, is to eliminate the NPC script at the gates, in Allanak. The guards there will find your spice, make you wanted in all Allanaki holdings, and then jump you with 4-8 NPCs, which includes half-giants, INSANTLY, making you dead.

It isn't that most PCs think drugs are bad, or care about prohibition, or that there are other IC factors that keep them from away from spice, as a vice. It's that there is a mechanic at the gates, a highly lethal and unrealistically efficient mechanic, that makes using spice as a coin dump, or character facet, an extremely risky and tedious prospect.

The high risk combined with the coded detriment, in the form of stacking stat degradation that lasts a very long time, means that no one who comes and goes from Allanak, with any regularity, will ever include spice as part of their character concept. The risk vs reward is, imo, too skewed, especially with how brutally punishing the grind here is. It just isn't worth it, not even a little bit.

I think that, if people could come through the gates in Allanak with spice, and the threat of being busted came from the soldier PCs, instead of death by scripted NPCs, because you're exhausted from school/work and totally forgot your character had a few grains in their pocket, there would be MUCH more interest in casually owning, using and peddling spice.

Allanak is, atm, the heart of the game world, and those scripts make sure, spice, as a thing, has almost no chance of lasting plot relevance, or impact, because of how those scripts work, and how they impact the people who need to come and go from Allanak, to do their thing.
"Mortals do drown so."

Dar

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #50 on: September 28, 2017, 09:57:49 PM »
There is plenty of infrastructure, entire clans even, that will smuggle spice for you into Allanak. For them the gate search is an obstacle that have long been overcome and neutralized.  The criminals are not doing a good enough job, if it is difficult to procure spice. The problem is not the difficulty of procurement, but the fact that ... it's not worth the effort. Even for clans which get spice for free and in any amounts, it's not worth the effort in 9/10 of Arm situations. There is always the '10th' situation. You're moving apartments and you cant pick up that wardrobe. Snort it up. You're about to walk into a cave of spiders and you know you'll either beat it, or you'll have to escape in minutes, snort it up. But RPTs? Long rides? Arena games? Anything with abnormal, unpredictable time factors? Forget it.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 446
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #51 on: September 28, 2017, 10:13:46 PM »
I agree with the above. I loved trying to use it as a Delf for RP as preparation for a big hunt or something, toking Krelez and then dancing around, painting myself up, etc. But the sad fact about RPTs is that they require a LONG time to get to the gore. By the time you've encountered the silt wizard or ash Vampyre then all the benefits are gone, and if you're really unlucky your coasting on the Spice crash at that point.

It'd be great if different intake had vastly differing time affects. Snorting had a more pronounced effect that only lasted at most half of a day, while smoking, though less potent, can make the high last over the course of one or two days (roughly an hour and a half to three hours IRL). Suddenly, I WANT to have a stock of war spice handy and I don't look like an idiot for stopping outside the ankheg cave and saying "Hold on. I need to toke up." because no one wants to put their RPT on hold like that.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Veselka

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #52 on: September 29, 2017, 01:41:15 AM »
I agree that making the effects last longer might make them more lucrative, when it comes to war spice for sure. Having larger +/- would also make it less...Reliable? Or something that you would want to do every time. So instead of a strain of spice always boosting a certain stat, if it were a few stats, a lesser amount, and perhaps lowering another stat, or a chance of it.

I also agree that the NPC scripts in Allanak are...Draconian. It might be a really fun thing for soldiers to have to coordinate/do (actually track the smugglers/sources of spice).

James de Monet

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #53 on: September 29, 2017, 05:25:00 AM »
I think some of you may be opining based on old information.  Getting caught smuggling at the gates of Nak has more scripted outcomes now than I was aware of before.  Arrest/Death is not a certainty.
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

Cind

  • Posts: 1297
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #54 on: September 29, 2017, 05:59:23 AM »
The reason I usually don't casually use spice on my non-naki pcs is because there is nothing in the docs stating, "Hey, this isn't the worst kind of drug you could possibly imagine, and is more like Dune spice," and some people are really dead-set on treating folks as addicts with one foot in the grave if they see a pipe in their hand, a passing interest in spice, residence in the village, etc. I've seen all kinds of pretty stupid causes for that reaction. I've never used narcotics in real life and never will, so I don't draw resemblances between the effects of spice and real-life drugs. This has always been jarring to me, and is an OOC thing which I avoid through IC actions. I'm kind of hoping someday someone will add on a tack to the end of the spice doc so I can have casual spice-users again (or avoid spice, if they decide to go the other way.)
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Cind

  • Posts: 1297
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #55 on: September 29, 2017, 06:02:21 AM »
I say make the soldiers less effective, but keep the chance that they will catch a spice smuggler.

That way, it'll give the Arm something to do (track down spicers and smugglers, or find a reliable one to obtain from) and not every Johnny and Jenny at the bar will have a tube hidden in their inventory.
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nauta

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #56 on: September 29, 2017, 09:50:40 AM »
I think some of you may be opining based on old information.  Getting caught smuggling at the gates of Nak has more scripted outcomes now than I was aware of before.  Arrest/Death is not a certainty.

This is why I'd like the scripted response to be more perspicuous to the player.  It's just not the sort of thing you want to find out IC again, especially if the first time you did so it was ganksquad.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Riev

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #57 on: September 29, 2017, 10:18:50 AM »
5 years ago, this meant insta-kill on a PC.

Things were changed. We asked what was changed.

Find out, they said.

Find out if the room that kills you instantly, still does. Go ahead. We dare you.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Veselka

  • Posts: 302
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #58 on: September 29, 2017, 11:39:39 AM »
I think some of you may be opining based on old information.  Getting caught smuggling at the gates of Nak has more scripted outcomes now than I was aware of before.  Arrest/Death is not a certainty.

As others have said...It's not exactly the kind of thing you want to test out on your PC.

I'd love it if on top of arresting or even fining (because I think that's a part of the new script, taking a 'bribe' from the PC), the PC's sdesc is reported to the Sergeant of the Arm. They can choose to follow up on it (shake down, arrest, get in on the action) or not.

I don't think spice is broken per se. Like many of the good things in this game, they could be made great if the opportunity presented itself, but all the changes around Red Storm with spice sifting and delivery and a plethora of other changes makes it seem sort of alright now.

It'd be cool if addiction code were more blatantly obvious, rather than blasting you with the come down message over and over again. It'd encourage more RP and less player despondence/annoyance that way, I think. It'd also be cool if it wasn't 'you aren't addicted' and 'you are addicted', and if there were a process inbetween where someone started getting cravings, similar to hunger.

Miradus

  • Posts: 1765
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #59 on: September 30, 2017, 09:20:10 PM »
It does not instakill you, at least not for smallish amounts. I've accidentally smuggled spice through there so many times. If you've hidden it well on your person (I won't reveal those details) then the guards won't catch it, but if they do catch a small amount you're not going to be instakilled. If you've got five bricks in your bag and a thal in the pipe in your hand, then I don't know what they do. You can test that part. :)

As far as who should be policing spice, I've always felt the Guild should be more concerned about that than the Arm. Someone's bringing spice in and the Guild didn't sanction it? Find them! Deploy the bag peekers to the Gaj! Send the burglars to the rooftops! Get the hitters on stand by.

tapas

  • Posts: 160
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #60 on: October 01, 2017, 08:50:59 PM »
The reason street meth is considered dangerous is that the potential for abuse is huge and the drug is often laced with impurities from the meth lab that is just bad for you.

But there are millions of people that use a similar product at smaller doses to either enhance performance or curb the symptoms of ADHD. And they do it for years without suffering addictive symptoms.

The difference between the two is basically dosage, temperance, and social stigma.

I can see I've lost this debate.  fine.  meth is awesome.  smoke dat ice brah.

Or pop an addy.

We can both be right?

Molten Heart

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #61 on: October 01, 2017, 10:04:47 PM »
Just freebase that Adderall.

WarriorPoet

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #62 on: October 01, 2017, 10:15:50 PM »
All drugs are better when you poke 'em in your butt.

Mild toothache? Sawbones says cram some aspirin in your ass.
We were somewhere near the Shield Wall, on the edge of the Red Desert, when the drugs began to take hold...

Dar

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #63 on: October 01, 2017, 11:47:22 PM »
All drugs are better when you poke 'em in your butt.

Mild toothache? Sawbones says cram some aspirin in your ass.

That's actually true. If you stick it deep enough for the drugs to get absorbed into the intestine. Much better then swallowing it anyway.

Also, why the heck are we discussing RL drugs, when we're supposed to discuss spice.

Inks

  • Posts: 1098
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #64 on: October 02, 2017, 12:52:42 AM »
Smoke spice
Sniff spice
Shelf spice

Idea :Allow shelving of spice.
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TheGoose

  • Posts: 127
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #65 on: October 02, 2017, 11:13:51 AM »
I rode into Allanak with a tube behind my ear.

Gate guards charged me 50 'sid and took the roll.