Author Topic: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.  (Read 1437 times)

Dresan

  • Posts: 1152
Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« on: September 20, 2017, 06:43:00 PM »
A couple moons ago, spice was changed so that it would be cheaper. I can only assume this was done to make it more tempting to use. I always wanted to see spice become the third staple, along with food and water. I'm curious if people feel spice is in a different state then it used to be before the change?

My main issue with spice is it has never been convenient to use. It should last at least a day, that way you can take it before you day begins and not have to worry about your high coming down in the middle of battle. My character wouldn't even mind paying more for a better type of spice that wasn't considered a re-recreational drug but a potent steroid, heck even if the additional benefit was that you didn't feel you need to RP foaming from the mouth soon after taking it.

Some additional ideas would be:
1. Usable spice should be created from the raw material found near the silt sea. It shouldn't be ready to use right off the ground.
2. The amount of spice you can smoke or snort should be govern by your initial endurance. A regular person should be able to snort one or two, with dwarves or above average folk hitting three and even four times before they pass out.  Only to wake when the spice they've snorted has passed through their system.  (Half-giants would be a special case, high endurance but also huge body to balance it.)
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gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 418
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #1 on: September 20, 2017, 07:25:23 PM »
Could we also get categories of spice addiction. I've heard horror stories of becoming useless overnight due to an insane stat reduction with zero warning.

I think spice could use an overhaul and would welcome it.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7458
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #2 on: September 20, 2017, 08:23:03 PM »
I'd like to see the use of raw spice treated codedly and culturally as "less civilized" as processed spice.

If you snort "x" times within "y" period of time, you run a risk of a nosebleed (HP loss).
If you snort "x+" times within "y" period of time, you will definitely get a nosebleed, with a risk of higher severity.
If you snort "x++" times, you get a really bad nosebleed, plus a temporary reduced HP max.
If you snort "x+++" within "y" time frame, really bad nosebleed, plus permanent reduced HP max.

Same with smoking - except you'd cough up blood.

Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

James de Monet

  • Posts: 3223
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #3 on: September 20, 2017, 08:29:51 PM »
Dresan, I assume you're already aware, but I can't quite tell from context, so just in case, I want to point out that there is already a difference (ICly and perhaps OOCly) between unprocessed (grain) spice and processed (pinch / shaved) spice.

Edited to add: I like Lizzie's idea of nosebleeds.  Simple, non-crippling reminder that grain spice is the crack equivalent of Zalanthas.  I put an RP random effect table in the Hardmode Armageddon Tables for using grain spice, if you feel like imposing those things on your own PCs with a random die roll as arbiter.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2017, 08:39:17 PM by James de Monet »
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 418
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #4 on: September 20, 2017, 08:36:51 PM »
I'd like to see the use of raw spice treated codedly and culturally as "less civilized" as processed spice.

If you snort "x" times within "y" period of time, you run a risk of a nosebleed (HP loss).
If you snort "x+" times within "y" period of time, you will definitely get a nosebleed, with a risk of higher severity.
If you snort "x++" times, you get a really bad nosebleed, plus a temporary reduced HP max.
If you snort "x+++" within "y" time frame, really bad nosebleed, plus permanent reduced HP max.

Same with smoking - except you'd cough up blood.

This seems a bit excessive for it to have a chance at reducing HP right off the bat. Perhaps a few emotes and other effects before it straight up equals a glancing stab. I do like the idea of chanced compounding effects.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1847
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2017, 09:18:27 PM »
Smoking raw spice could be messy and crude. It could leave black residue in pipes forever claiming them with its mark. Nosebleeds is a good idea for sniffing raw spice.

Smoking or sniffing refined spice could have the side effects reduced somehow.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7458
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #6 on: September 20, 2017, 09:19:26 PM »
I'd like to see the use of raw spice treated codedly and culturally as "less civilized" as processed spice.

If you snort "x" times within "y" period of time, you run a risk of a nosebleed (HP loss).
If you snort "x+" times within "y" period of time, you will definitely get a nosebleed, with a risk of higher severity.
If you snort "x++" times, you get a really bad nosebleed, plus a temporary reduced HP max.
If you snort "x+++" within "y" time frame, really bad nosebleed, plus permanent reduced HP max.

Same with smoking - except you'd cough up blood.

This seems a bit excessive for it to have a chance at reducing HP right off the bat. Perhaps a few emotes and other effects before it straight up equals a glancing stab. I do like the idea of chanced compounding effects.

It's not "right off the bat." As I said - After "x" snorts within "y" period of time. I didn't specify, because it'd be up to the staff to figure out what's reasonable or not. But if you want a hypothetical of the hypothetical..

After you've had your 5th consecutive snort of raw, unprocessed spice within a 48-hour real-time period of time..you'd run a 40% chance of a nosebleed with a 5-point hp loss.

If you've had your 6th-10th consecutive snort of raw, unprocessed spice within the same 48-hour real-time period of time, you'd have a 100% chance of a nosebleed, with a 5-point HP loss, plus a 40% chance of additional HP loss of 5-10 more HP.

And so on and so forth, with stacking penalties for longer durations.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2564
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #7 on: September 20, 2017, 09:29:17 PM »
I don't think a permanent hp loss would be fine, otherwise drinking too much should incur perma wisdom loss or something.

I do like the idea of it starting to hurt you.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1843
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #8 on: September 20, 2017, 10:02:53 PM »
i don't know if you've ever drank, but i don't know of many cases where drinking all the time would permanently damage your brain. it can damage your brain, sure, but if you stop drinking these effects will eventually (most likely) go away.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2564
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2017, 10:13:07 PM »
i don't know if you've ever drank, but i don't know of many cases where drinking all the time would permanently damage your brain. it can damage your brain, sure, but if you stop drinking these effects will eventually (most likely) go away.
(I actually don't know much about fucking one's self up on alcohol/drugs but it was mostly an example pls sir)

I still don't like 'perma fucked' effects.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

Delirium

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2017, 10:18:40 PM »
If your aim is to get more PCs to use spice, the risk of permanent damage is probably not gonna do it. ;)
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gotdamnmiracle

  • Posts: 418
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #11 on: September 21, 2017, 12:21:06 AM »
If your aim is to get more PCs to use spice, the risk of permanent damage is probably not gonna do it. ;)

I agree.
He is an individual cool cat. A cat who has taken more than nine lives.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7458
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #12 on: September 21, 2017, 06:54:09 AM »
I was actually thinking of giving spice more of a down-side than it has, to make people who use it regularly and rely on it to boost their stats, to have consequences for those stat boosts other than having to sit in a bar for an hour while the wearing-off period occurs.

It's pretty common from my perspective to see people who get ready for a simple hunt, or patrol, or fun ride around their turf, by snorting " a few of each" before leaving their tents/camp/gates. They don't even think about it. They don't even know if they'll need it at any point during their ride/walk.

I don't think it should be that commonplace, that it becomes an expected and practically required part of a journey. It should ever get to the point where if you do NOT spice up for a trip, people want to know why.

Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Delirium

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Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #13 on: September 21, 2017, 08:36:08 AM »
Sounds like working as intended. I don't want to get into code specifics too much but if they're really using it every day like that they absolutely will get addicted over time.
"Our whole lives are just stories." - Vikings

I get wherever I'm going, I get whatever I need
while my blood's still flowing and my heart still beats

Riev

  • Posts: 4728
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #14 on: September 21, 2017, 09:19:52 AM »
My only issue with ever trying to sling spice, is that unless it has a coded effect, many of the code-focused players are not interested. The RP-effect spices are pretty great, but you have to be like 'in the mood' to RP it out and run the risk of being caught in Allanak, for doing something that just makes you feel happy.

So when you try to tell someone you can help them sleep at night, or have better dreams, etc etc... nobody cares, because PCs don't sleep. The RP-focused players tend to already have a 'connection', and the code-focused ones don't want boosted stats until they are MasterCombatWow.
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Harmless

  • Posts: 2628
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #15 on: September 21, 2017, 09:43:08 AM »
Once played a PC who would regularly smoke before a hunt. Didnt take long before stats were tanking. No need to make more negative effects of spice or to change code to make them happen sooner. Nosebleeds sound mostly cosmetic so no problem there.

Spice should wear off while logged off.
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nauta

  • Posts: 2188
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #16 on: September 21, 2017, 09:46:26 AM »
My main issue with spice is it has never been convenient to use.

Two elephants in the room:

1. Spice is illegal in Allanak.  This likely won't ever change.  However, the crimcode being what it is at the gates (vague and when it is triggered swift and brutal), coupled with the fact that it is very easy to forget you had a tube of spice on you, has lead me to avoid that complication.

Solution: Be explicit in documentation about what the crimcode response is if you are caught with X amount of spice coming into the gates.

2. PC delivery mechanism.  In Allanak (outside the rinth), the only way to get spice is to ask a PC.  As with any PC-based mechanism, your chance of finding one, finding one that wants to talk to you, and then coordinating your playtimes will be a kind of mileage may vary type of thing.

Solution: Provide access to a spice vendor southside or access to the one that is northside.  This vendor should charge a lot more than the PC would charge.

While my Luir's-based and tribal PCs have smoked a lot, (1) and (2) combined have made it pretty daunting to RP a spice addict (or even casual user) in southside Allanak.
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Inks

  • Posts: 1081
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2017, 10:19:12 AM »
I've been a heavy addict in the past...ig that is. It is fine, but it will mess you up more and more. Spice is good as is, codedly and rply, there are spices without the horrific comedowns if you use heavily and want to do that spice addict thing without major repercussions (you softie twink). TL:DR = Spice is great both rp and codedly already, real heroes don't do drugs. Keep it as is.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2017, 10:44:12 AM by Inks »
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FamousAmos

  • Posts: 209
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2017, 10:52:19 AM »
I suggest to use the hungry code. Like what happens when you're famished, but then used when one smokes too much spice in a short amount of time. But perhaps a combo of increased Stun and decreased Stam for x amount of time.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1847
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2017, 12:06:52 PM »
It'd be cool if addicts received messages like. "You are dying for some spice!" Or other appropriate messages to communicate to the player the level of their character's coded addiction.

Vex

  • Posts: 19
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2017, 05:57:03 PM »
It's pretty common from my perspective to see people who get ready for a simple hunt, or patrol, or fun ride around their turf, by snorting " a few of each" before leaving their tents/camp/gates. They don't even think about it. They don't even know if they'll need it at any point during their ride/walk.

I don't think it should be that commonplace, that it becomes an expected and practically required part of a journey. It should ever get to the point where if you do NOT spice up for a trip, people want to know why.

There is no way people are using "a few of each", every time they go out.

With how spice works, and how long it takes for the residual effect to wear off, if they were to take a few of each stat spice, they would be so deep in stat loss, as to be crippled for extensive periods of RL time. Really, it seems coded in a way that prevents anyone, from using spice to run around with buffed stats all the time.

And even rolling around, with the clans who have spice to burn, for basically nothing, I have never seen spice used in the way you describe. To me, it sounds completely made up.
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Dar

  • Posts: 1168
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #21 on: September 22, 2017, 12:45:55 AM »
The unfortunate fact is that spice lasts such a short time that any use for improving oneself across the entire hunt/patrol/etc is impractical and is simply not done. I've employed spice to ... help myself carry things when moving places. Or before an important theft, or before an important backstab. But only when the target was stationary and I've had my pick of the correct time. The moment 'time' becomes an unknown variable, I strike the use of spice out completely. The length of spice duration is so short, that in my experience, I was more often left stuck with its side effects, when the RPT finally approached the risky part and all in all, in my general experience, out of 100 situations where spice would've been useful, I used t once.

All in all, in my general rp, the only way I value spice is for it's entertainment value. Tho during private conversations in other words and that is very situational. I've lost count to situations when I was a part of a group that thrived on rough and tumble and I made sure that our hide out had a healthy supply of every warspice and ... it's never ever EVER used, because nobody wants to use it, even when it's free to take.

So judge for yourself, whether or not it should be used.

PS: The situation that was described higher in the thread? About people snorting some spice before each hunt? Never happens. I'm sorry.

Veselka

  • Posts: 179
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #22 on: September 22, 2017, 01:53:11 AM »
Only Sith speak in absolutes. While I don't think it happens 'never' or 'always', it certainly happens sometimes. I don't think that's a bad thing -- I think people with access to drugs and who are drug users should be using drugs. But I do think the effects could be more tilted. Stronger strongs, lower lows. Longer length of time on the high, but maybe a period of recovery where you aren't so useful. Already kind of reflected with stat reductions.

Definitely think you should sober up while offline, same as booze.

Doublepalli

  • Posts: 259
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #23 on: September 22, 2017, 01:24:21 PM »
Let's be honest. No one but nobles buy spice in allanak!

Riev

  • Posts: 4728
Re: Spice: Be better than what the Highlord intended.
« Reply #24 on: September 22, 2017, 01:33:51 PM »
Let's be honest. No one but nobles buy spice in allanak!

There was a time, LONG ago under different staff, where I was told by an entire clan (with a wagon/argosy) that they "didn't need to buy from me" because they "just put it in some trunks and stuffed it away in the wagon after a trip to the Outpost". Like, in character, they told me they were doing the smuggling themselves. Then staff said "No they don't because they're not allowed to do that anymore."

I never did get to sell spice to them.
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