Author Topic: Weapons in your inventory  (Read 1811 times)

nauta

  • Posts: 2206
Weapons in your inventory
« on: September 12, 2017, 12:59:38 PM »
So, this is a code discussion, but I want to first put it out there that this isn't an RP police type of thing.  I do feel that we shouldn't be (codedly) able to have a weapon in our inventory, but I think this is for gameplay reasons, not RP reasons -- the inventory is a mysterious thing, and you can RP stuff in your inventory as hanging off a belt or tied to a string or tucked under an arm or however you please.

Now I haven't thought through the coded implications of all this, which is why I'm tossing it out to folks for criticism / thoughts on it.

So the suggestion: Disable the ability to have weapons in your inventory. Anything that is a weapon type.  If you 'get' a weapon, you'll have to have one hand free to do so, and it'll automatically equip to that hand.

Why?

1. Disarm and combat.  When you disarm someone in combat, they have to actually reach down and get the weapon again which costs them a combat round, or draw a new one (sheathed or on their belt). 

2. Hiding a weapon in plain sight.  If they can store weapons in their inventory, this would mean that they can just have extra weapons on their inventory which you can't 'see' with the 'look' command.

I really like that removing a weapon 'drops' it during combat, thus costing you an extra round to recover it.  I think this creates a much more exciting and dynamic combat system.

Thoughts?

ETA:

'rs' and 'rp' also should behave just like 'remove': it drops the weapon if you are in combat.  You should have to use the sheath command to change weapons.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 01:21:26 PM by nauta »
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Riev

  • Posts: 4796
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2017, 01:13:41 PM »
Having to "draw" a weapon attaches a bit of coded lag to it specifically to address the time it takes to ready a weapon.

"ep" from inventory takes 0 lag time in any way.

That's all I have to contribute.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

lostinspace

  • Posts: 520
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #2 on: September 12, 2017, 01:29:59 PM »
I've RP'd a sap as up my sleeve before while it was in my inventory, to account for it being non-visible and readily accessible.

Also for the hiding weapons in inventory I never had a problem with. Maybe they have a sheath between their shoulder blades with a dagger under their shirt, or up a sleeve. There is a skill for identifying things hidden in the inventory, so there is counter play.

I agree 100% for 2 handed weapons though.
3/21/16 Never Forget

nauta

  • Posts: 2206
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #3 on: September 12, 2017, 01:47:31 PM »
Having to "draw" a weapon attaches a bit of coded lag to it specifically to address the time it takes to ready a weapon.

"ep" from inventory takes 0 lag time in any way.

That's all I have to contribute.

Definitely, ep and es should give a lag just like draw.

Actually, this suggests a much better way to implement the idea: if you are in combat, you can't es or ep, period.  The only way to equip a weapon into your hand while in combat is to draw it or get it (adding code to force get to automatically equip the weapon --- otherwise disarm would be deadly).

Slightly related: I haven't ever really noticed a lag to 'draw' and I used to think that there was a further lag to draw while you have your cloak closed, but I haven't noticed one either.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Delirium

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #4 on: September 12, 2017, 01:51:13 PM »
There is a lag to draw. There is also a slight lag to ep and es.

If you feel that a specific player is abusing the code somehow, then I suggest you submit a player complaint.
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Riev

  • Posts: 4796
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2017, 02:10:30 PM »
There is a skill for identifying things hidden in the inventory, so there is counter play.

Especially when they get you with the INHUMAN REACTIONS. /LoL

Being able to view someone's inventory is a potential way to balance it out, but I've definitely noticed in terms of lag its:

ep < draw < draw with closed cloak

The lag isn't SIGNIFICANT even with a closed cloak, its about 4-5 seconds.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

lostinspace

  • Posts: 520
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2017, 02:18:08 PM »
There is a skill for identifying things hidden in the inventory, so there is counter play.

Especially when they get you with the INHUMAN REACTIONS. /LoL

Being able to view someone's inventory is a potential way to balance it out, but I've definitely noticed in terms of lag its:

Not sure I follow.
3/21/16 Never Forget

Riev

  • Posts: 4796
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2017, 02:25:52 PM »
I don't hear the term "Counter Play" so often as I hear it in people talking about League of Legends. "OH MAN THATS SO UNBALANCED THERE IS NO COUNTER PLAY".

The skill that lets you view someone else's inventory (or a portion of it) isn't really a "counter play" to someone holding a weapon in their inventory, because there may be nothing you can do about it
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

lostinspace

  • Posts: 520
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2017, 02:31:11 PM »
Ah, haven't played League since college, probably why I was confused. At the very least seeing the weapnn in their inventory lets you know it's there. If you know they have items in their inventory, I'm not sure how it differs from knowing they have weapons on their belt.
3/21/16 Never Forget

Riev

  • Posts: 4796
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2017, 02:39:06 PM »
Especially considering that TYPICALLY, the ones who can relieve you of the weapons in your hand, aren't often capable of relieving them from your belt.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1255
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2017, 05:16:25 PM »
I find it annoying, when you disarm someone, and they instantly have the weapon in their hand again, because being disarmed has no lag, simply adding a few seconds of delay, longer than disarm-doing delay would be nice to balance out the fact very few people I have played with, pause to emote grabbing their weapon, and even when they do, most people do it after rewielding. As it currently stands, disarming someone just about penalizes the person who disarms.

650Booger

  • Posts: 379
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #11 on: September 12, 2017, 05:32:01 PM »
As it currently stands, disarming someone just about penalizes the person who disarms.

unless you play the dirty trick of disarming and immediately grabbing the opponents weapon off the floor yourself.
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

Jihelu

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #12 on: September 12, 2017, 05:38:31 PM »
As it currently stands, disarming someone just about penalizes the person who disarms.

unless you play the dirty trick of disarming and immediately grabbing the opponents weapon off the floor yourself.
Follow it up with junking the weapon.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1255
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #13 on: September 12, 2017, 05:39:51 PM »
The lag is too great to do that on the disarmer side. Ive even emoted having grabbed the weapon out of the persons hand to disarm the person and still had folks pick up their weapon.

On a funny side, junking their weapon would be funny, could emote standing on it.

lostinspace

  • Posts: 520
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2017, 05:54:16 PM »
You can also disarm someone's weapon into another room, that prevents them from picking it up immediately.

3/21/16 Never Forget

650Booger

  • Posts: 379
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2017, 07:45:36 PM »
You can also disarm someone's weapon into another room, that prevents them from picking it up immediately.

noob here... you can?
"Historical analogy is the last refuge of people who can't grasp the current situation."
-Kim Stanley Robinson

Jihelu

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2017, 07:58:21 PM »
You can also disarm someone's weapon into another room, that prevents them from picking it up immediately.

noob here... you can?
Yes. It rarely happens at lower levels, and may be tied to strength (I think).
It's like how at high levels you can counter disarm.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

Riev

  • Posts: 4796
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2017, 08:41:25 PM »
Its one of those rare things that happens to people who do not have the skill, in order to counter it. Reversing kicks, bashes, etc etc

However, the disarmer can't pick up the opponent's dropped weapon in time, most of the time.

At least if the opponent has to circle around to get their weapon, you can get in an Attack of Opportunity.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Cabooze

  • Posts: 141
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2017, 03:29:51 AM »
I think an easier solution to this, is to attach a extra attack for your opponent if you attempt to draw, ep hammer, chan h ep es, etc., rather than making it so that the inventory has to be reworked to not allow any weapons. That would get complicated, when foraging for rocks.

valeria

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2017, 08:08:44 AM »
You can see things in people's inventory with 'peek.'  You can see the weapon itself without any need to put in commands at all if it's heavy.  Where might they have it if it's not in actively being held?

The same place we have anything that we aren't actively 'ep' or 'es'ing.  Tucked in with an elbow under the fold of a cloak, setting on their lap under a table, on top of their head.  Things already encumber you more if you wander around with them in your inventory so you're already taking one coded penalty.  I agree that if you think that a specific player is abusing weapons somehow.  A change so that you can have anything in your inventory other than weapons seems bizarre. 

But here's one for you: how about having a character drop everything in their inventory when they're attacked.  Help inventory describes these items as "in your hands" and it doesn't make much sense to have things in your hands when you're fighting for your life.  Then someone has to bend down to pick up whatever before they run, suffering the attack of opportunity.  I would be more happy with this than some rule that you can carry anything else anywhere you want except weapons for... some reason.

Lizzie

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2017, 08:27:21 AM »
You can see things in people's inventory with 'peek.'  You can see the weapon itself without any need to put in commands at all if it's heavy.  Where might they have it if it's not in actively being held?

The same place we have anything that we aren't actively 'ep' or 'es'ing.  Tucked in with an elbow under the fold of a cloak, setting on their lap under a table, on top of their head.  Things already encumber you more if you wander around with them in your inventory so you're already taking one coded penalty.  I agree that if you think that a specific player is abusing weapons somehow.  A change so that you can have anything in your inventory other than weapons seems bizarre. 

But here's one for you: how about having a character drop everything in their inventory when they're attacked.  Help inventory describes these items as "in your hands" and it doesn't make much sense to have things in your hands when you're fighting for your life.  Then someone has to bend down to pick up whatever before they run, suffering the attack of opportunity.  I would be more happy with this than some rule that you can carry anything else anywhere you want except weapons for... some reason.

I really like this - and had once wondered why it wasn't the case, years ago. If you have something loose in your inventory and engage in combat, you drop whatever is loose. Possible arguments against:
1) NPC that auto-takes anything on the ground.
Solution: Stop carrying stuff loose in your inventory, and there will be nothing for the NPC to take.
2) New player who doesn't know about #1:
Solution: He's about to find out.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
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evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1881
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #21 on: September 13, 2017, 08:40:28 AM »
what about half-giants who are carrying a bunch of stuff in chests because they can't wear enough packs to hold everything?!

I could give a shit about wholesome.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7490
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #22 on: September 13, 2017, 09:11:34 AM »
what about half-giants who are carrying a bunch of stuff in chests because they can't wear enough packs to hold everything?!

What about the massive collection of stuff they carry, is necessary for a half-giant, that isn't necessary for anyone else? Solution: Stop carrying so much shit. There are oversized backpacks made specifically for half-giants, that will hold more than humans can hold in their normal-sized backpacks. There's no reason for half-giants to carry so much stuff, and the only reason players of HGs do have their PCs carry so much stuff, is because they have the coded strength to do so. Not because they actually need it all.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1870
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #23 on: September 13, 2017, 10:07:37 AM »
what about half-giants who are carrying a bunch of stuff in chests because they can't wear enough packs to hold everything?!

Off topic: I always thought half-giants should be able to wear trunks and chests on their backs/over their shoulders.

Jihelu

  • Posts: 2580
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #24 on: September 13, 2017, 10:40:18 AM »
what about half-giants who are carrying a bunch of stuff in chests because they can't wear enough packs to hold everything?!

Off topic: I always thought half-giants should be able to wear trunks and chests on their backs/over their shoulders.
I suggest mcing a chest with straps on it for better transportation...and for wearing.
Shade, profits, and George Bush did 9/11

nauta

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #25 on: September 13, 2017, 11:11:25 AM »
But here's one for you: how about having a character drop everything in their inventory when they're attacked.  Help inventory describes these items as "in your hands" and it doesn't make much sense to have things in your hands when you're fighting for your life.  Then someone has to bend down to pick up whatever before they run, suffering the attack of opportunity.  I would be more happy with this than some rule that you can carry anything else anywhere you want except weapons for... some reason.

I like this idea too.  But there's still the ability to grab a weapon on the ground (or all of them) and hold them in your inventory after the battle starts.  Hence, I'd even go so far as to suggest that the code combine the above with:

1. You can't ep/es while fighting.  You have to draw or...
2. You can get something from the ground while fighting but you must have one hand free and it automatically will equip the item you grab.
3. The same is true if someone 'gives' you something while you are fighting: if your equipped hand slots are full, you can't receive it; if you have one hand free, it will automatically equip it.
4. rs/rp will also drop the item while you are fighting (just like remove does).

An alternative to #2 and #3 would be to allow people to get items from the ground or receive them from others, but make the lag on es and ep (while fighting) much larger than it currently is.

If you feel that a specific player is abusing the code somehow, then I suggest you submit a player complaint.

None of my post was a reflection on other people's play: I was playing around with the combinations recently, and what the code suggestion is is my reflection on what might improve the gameplay experience in combat, without hopefully introducing arbitrary annoyances.

Personally, I've done the sap in inventory thing before, and I've done the weapons in the inventory thing before too.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:18:32 AM by nauta »
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Veselka

  • Posts: 219
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #26 on: September 13, 2017, 11:22:26 AM »
I personally think there should just be a greater delay and penalty to using weapons from your inventory. So EP/ES incurs the same attack of opportunity that picking a weapon up from the ground does, or getting a weapon from your pack.

I also think there should be a delay added to those who have been disarmed, so they can't instantly pick up their weapons. It seems that those with higher agility don't incur the attack of opportunity as often as others, so I see some people able to 9/10 pick up a weapon without any penalty. That doesn't seem realistic or as intended.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1870
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #27 on: September 13, 2017, 11:41:41 AM »
I once played a mud that had no inventory. When someone picked something up, it went directly into their hand. Even though one could only hold two items (one in each hand), inventory was handled very intuitively. Getting new objects would automatically send things already in the hands into a backpack or other worn container before picking up new objects, or the held objects would go on to the ground around the person and this was their sort of "inventory" (people couldn't just pick these objects up without the owner first allowing them two or leaving the area.)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:44:20 AM by Molten Heart »

nauta

  • Posts: 2206
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #28 on: September 13, 2017, 11:45:11 AM »
I once played a mud that had no inventory. When someone picked something up, it went directly into their hand. Even though one could only hold two items (one in each hand), inventory was handled very intuitively. Getting new objects would automatically send things already in the hands into a backpack or another worn container when the hands were needed, or they would go on the ground around a person and this was their sort of inventory (people couldn't just pick these objects up without the owner first allowing them two or leaving the area.)

SoI was like that last I played it.  I actually found it so OOCly annoying.  In my humble opinion, the inventory in Arm is a great invention/feature, but it should be taken with a bit of suspension of disbelief: it is there as an OOC convenience more than anything, and probably should be taken with a lot of grains of salt and suspension of disbelief.  (I use it when an item doesn't actually equip on me when it really should, e.g., a shield slung over a shoulder, a helmet clipped to my belt, or because there's a two item limit on belts, but you got this one little pouch, so why the heck can't that go on your belt, etc.)
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 11:48:34 AM by nauta »
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

WithSprinkles

  • Posts: 315
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #29 on: September 13, 2017, 12:34:06 PM »
Item weight and bulkiness could be taken into account if a person wants to think on it that. I mean..

Yeah, a person could hold something in either hand and technically have their hands full, but in real life, I can hold several small items in my hands just fine. And cradle more items against my chest. When I'm carrying in groceries, it's laughable because I'm draping bags along my arms (and holding my keys in my teeth). My boyfriend can carry more because he's taller, so he teases me about the fact he's got more in his arms.

I can see myself turning my shield over if I'm a warrior or if I'm a crafter, a plank of wood, and balancing my work on that, and carrying more on that, which is how I think sometimes of people carrying things in inventory and especially crafting with them.

In a fight, yeah, there could be a chance of people shedding items like a pinata if they're holding them as the fight goes on, but not always, because if I'm clutching something I wanna keep hold of and someone hits me, my immediate focus might not be attack but defense and extraction from the situation. If the person stands there and slugs it out, then yeah, let the items fall.
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valeria

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #30 on: September 13, 2017, 01:16:09 PM »
stuff

...  But there's still the ability to grab a weapon on the ground (or all of them) and hold them in your inventory after the battle starts. 

Since you get attacked every time you bend to pick something up, I guess they could do that?  But they would be playing with fire.  And then I presume if they didn't get it in a hand/in a container (if you even could during combat) quick enough, it would just drop again on the next tick that someone swings a weapon at them.  (At least, that's how I pictured it.)

I don't agree with there being some kind of penalty to ep/es a weapon you just picked up.  You had to take a penalty to pick it up, after all.  You probably picked it up with your hand.  And you're definitely suffering existing combat penalties if you're not armed.

As far as people with high agility being able to pick things up from the ground goes, since they have high agility, that would seem to be working as intended.

This is all just one woman's opinion, though!

James de Monet

  • Posts: 3235
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #31 on: September 13, 2017, 01:28:48 PM »
3. The same is true if someone 'gives' you something while you are fighting: if your equipped hand slots are full, you can't receive it; if you have one hand free, it will automatically equip it.

There's nothing specifically wrong with this idea, but it would cause so much code abuse.

Code: [Select]
>disarm amos
>give spoon amos
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

Veselka

  • Posts: 219
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #32 on: September 13, 2017, 01:56:08 PM »
stuff

...  But there's still the ability to grab a weapon on the ground (or all of them) and hold them in your inventory after the battle starts. 

Since you get attacked every time you bend to pick something up, I guess they could do that?  But they would be playing with fire.  And then I presume if they didn't get it in a hand/in a container (if you even could during combat) quick enough, it would just drop again on the next tick that someone swings a weapon at them.  (At least, that's how I pictured it.)

I don't agree with there being some kind of penalty to ep/es a weapon you just picked up.  You had to take a penalty to pick it up, after all.  You probably picked it up with your hand.  And you're definitely suffering existing combat penalties if you're not armed.

As far as people with high agility being able to pick things up from the ground goes, since they have high agility, that would seem to be working as intended.

This is all just one woman's opinion, though!

It doesn't appear to incur an attack of opportunity every time, or even most of the time.

Cabooze

  • Posts: 141
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #33 on: September 13, 2017, 02:05:29 PM »
stuff

...  But there's still the ability to grab a weapon on the ground (or all of them) and hold them in your inventory after the battle starts. 

Since you get attacked every time you bend to pick something up, I guess they could do that?  But they would be playing with fire.  And then I presume if they didn't get it in a hand/in a container (if you even could during combat) quick enough, it would just drop again on the next tick that someone swings a weapon at them.  (At least, that's how I pictured it.)

I don't agree with there being some kind of penalty to ep/es a weapon you just picked up.  You had to take a penalty to pick it up, after all.  You probably picked it up with your hand.  And you're definitely suffering existing combat penalties if you're not armed.

As far as people with high agility being able to pick things up from the ground goes, since they have high agility, that would seem to be working as intended.

This is all just one woman's opinion, though!

It doesn't appear to incur an attack of opportunity every time, or even most of the time.


'mercy' affects this

nauta

  • Posts: 2206
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #34 on: September 13, 2017, 02:12:31 PM »
3. The same is true if someone 'gives' you something while you are fighting: if your equipped hand slots are full, you can't receive it; if you have one hand free, it will automatically equip it.

There's nothing specifically wrong with this idea, but it would cause so much code abuse.

Code: [Select]
>disarm amos
>give spoon amos

Ha ha.  Good point. 

I really love the idea of fight forcing you to drop everything in your inventory.  And Valeria is right about the 'picking up' counter -- it opens you to a free attack -- so if I had to summarize things so far (good discussion):

1. Being attacked or attacking forces you to dump everything in your inventory. (It's probably worth thinking about what negative gameplay consequences this would have more carefully -- beyond NPC thieves...)

2. rs/rp being just like remove.

3. es/ep having somewhat more lag to it than currently -- at least it should have as much lag as the draw command (which I think could have a little more lag added to it, since I haven't ever really noticed lag to draw).

That seems the simplest in terms of code.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

lostinspace

  • Posts: 520
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #35 on: September 13, 2017, 06:13:01 PM »
I'm against penalizing people for carrying things in their inventory, pickpockets have to start somewhere :p

As for code abuse with passing people items to fill their hands, the same is true currently of inventory no? If someone completely gave up on RP and was just playing code, they could totally give you a bunch of rocks until your inventory was full, then disarm you. If anything the delay on disarm would make Disarm -> Give Spoon less abuseable.
3/21/16 Never Forget

James de Monet

  • Posts: 3235
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #36 on: September 13, 2017, 06:16:23 PM »
It's a good idea.  To my mind, an ideal implementation would look like this (with any less complicated implementation still being beneficial):

The lag should probably be based on the weight and the weapon (knives and curved swords are faster to draw then straight swords, maces, warhammers, etc.).  Sheathed weapons should be faster to draw than ep/es (due to muscle memory and advantageous positioning), with belt sheathes being faster to draw from than back, boot, or wrist sheathes.

A check against the character's hands would be done every round of combat.  Any time BOTH hands were occupied (dual wield, etwo, sword and board, etc.) the character would dump their inventory.  This allows for a few things.  One, it means you can pick up a disarmed weapon during combat without auto-equipping, but more importantly, it allows the player to prioritize their aims.  If the character is just trying to run away with their armload of jewels and not fight, they can still do that.  If you're carrying a body, you could still try to fight with one hand.  If things get out of hand, you can make the choice to draw that second weapon.

I think it just gives the player more control without ditching the realism of it.  There's a lot of situations where being forced to drop things that mattered at the start of combat could be unredeemably damaging (flying, climbing, silt, if you already had your weapons in your inv, torches, bribe money, hiding something, ersatz baby objects, etc.)
You know I think if James simply retitled his thread "Cheese" and apologized for his first post being off-topic, all problems would be solved.

TheGoose

  • Posts: 127
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #37 on: September 18, 2017, 03:39:24 PM »
Gonna just point out that these 'solutions' seem to make problems where there were none. This thread seems to be, 'let's take a non-issue and make it an issue.' 0/10, please do not implement.

Riev

  • Posts: 4796
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #38 on: September 18, 2017, 04:00:32 PM »
Not understanding, misunderstanding, or not generally being affecting by an issue does not make it a non-issue.

I don't personally find it gamebreaking, but its an interesting discussion about what "inventory" is and how it affects us codedly.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1881
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #39 on: September 18, 2017, 06:15:40 PM »
or, make it a chance on a reel.

every time you get reeled, there's a chance you drop a random number of items in your inventory.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Cind

  • Posts: 1291
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #40 on: September 19, 2017, 04:06:19 AM »
With heavier items more likely to drop.
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

Dresan

  • Posts: 1156
Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #41 on: September 20, 2017, 07:37:15 PM »
I think the point of having a proper sheathe and drawing your weapon from it, is that it is prepared and ready to use. This is should be quicker than using a weapon that isn't as properly prepared, you need to make sure you are grip a weapons properly after picking it up for example, even shifting your grip can take a valuable moment. Therefore, I think equipping using es/ep during battle should cause a bit more of a delay than drawing from a sheathe. Maybe shield being the exception since there is no way to draw it.

If a person becomes unconscious they should drop their inventory.

As for dropping parts of your inventory during reel and/or battle, it really sounds interesting, but feel it would become more of an annoyance than feature after a while.

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Harmless

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #42 on: September 21, 2017, 08:58:47 PM »
A slight chance of anything happening, like on critical fails or what have you, is a common mechanic in pen and paper games. Crit fail, roll a dice, look at a small table nearby and X happens -- drop your weapon, take extra damage to armor, get stunned, etc.

If there were a chance that I would drop shit I was carrying while fighting for my life, as the mud tells you when trying to do non-combat things while in combat, I'd like that; a chance, a realistic one. I dont know about a clownish complete loss of the entire inventory immediately on combat. What if it's a damn snake just trying to bite you -- is Amos really gonna lose all his fucking shit every time a snake in the Red Desert tried to nip him?


The simple change of making the delay much longer when wielding from inventory sounds like a simultaneous fix to Nauta's concern that some players are hoarding backup weapons in their inventory with no downside, as well as a boost to Disarm which I agree is underpowered, except for when it finally sends the damn weapon to the next room over, which is its best feature. So, my +1 goes to that simple change; make the delay for wielding from inventory much longer.
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Inks

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #43 on: September 23, 2017, 04:42:44 AM »
I would be happy if wielding from inventory caused an attack of opportunity.
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Hauwke

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #44 on: September 23, 2017, 06:01:09 AM »
I would be happy if wielding from inventory caused an attack of opportunity.
Thats actually not a terrible idea.

Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #45 on: September 23, 2017, 06:02:46 AM »
I would be happy if wielding from inventory caused an attack of opportunity.
Thats actually not a terrible idea.

Wouldn't picking up and wielding a dropped/disarmed weapon then result in two attacks of opportunity on you, though?
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Riev

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #46 on: September 23, 2017, 11:31:11 AM »
It would. I'm kind of intrigued at the idea that you have to decide if your sword is worth picking up and grabbing, causing the potential for two AOs, or if you want to draw a different less-skilled weapon, or if you just want to run.
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Inks

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #47 on: September 23, 2017, 01:51:47 PM »
Yes, it would cause two attacks of opportunity, I think that is cool.
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Pretentious

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #48 on: September 24, 2017, 02:33:02 AM »
Gonna just point out that these 'solutions' seem to make problems where there were none. This thread seems to be, 'let's take a non-issue and make it an issue.' 0/10, please do not implement.

Agree +100. I think most people use and RP around their inventory responsibly. Trying to make it codedly inconvenient across the board for most legitimate uses in order to target a very small set of circumstances is unnecessarily punishing and painful. Let's just trust people to RP around what they're doing responsibly, and make fun of them (or file player complaints, if things are serious enough) when they aren't. There are tons of legitimate use cases for having multiple weapons in your inventory. It's arbitrary to say that you can have an armful of wooden poles but not an armful of spears, or arrows.

There are already sensible checks in place to penalize the blatantly ridiculous uses of inventory. Let's have some faith in the player base rather than stomping on the lowest common denominator to all our detriment and pain.

Delirium

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #49 on: September 24, 2017, 09:33:33 AM »
Let's have some faith in the player base rather than stomping on the lowest common denominator to all our detriment and pain.
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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #50 on: September 24, 2017, 05:25:32 PM »
Gonna just point out that these 'solutions' seem to make problems where there were none.

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Jihelu

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #51 on: September 24, 2017, 10:43:03 PM »
What I feel like the only real problem I've seen in this thread is:
People can pick up weapons that were disarmed very fast. Though there is an attack of opportunity, it's still a bit fast.

How would this be fixed?

Make the chance to hit them greater or make the person have a lag on picking things up, but not for actions like drawing weapons.

Or just don't fix it, they still get a chance to hit them.
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Vex

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #52 on: September 25, 2017, 02:06:34 AM »
Disarm is, I think, the most powerful skill in a warriors repertoire.

It takes one, maybe two, disarms, for my warrior to decimate an opponent, because of how the code treats people who are unarmed during combat. If there were even more penalties imposed on the victim, it would be completely untenable, in a permadeath game running H&S combat mechanics.
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Hauwke

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #53 on: September 25, 2017, 02:26:43 AM »
Thats only applicable if your guy even manages to swing while the guy is disarmed. Which wont take long for them to pick it up. And even then, most hits dont do nearly enough damage to matter for the single attack of opportunity. (unless its a mul/strong dwarf or halfgiant obviously.)

Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #54 on: September 25, 2017, 06:28:07 AM »
I've had attacks of opportunity wound and even knock out characters who otherwise would have decimated their opponents. I think it's fine as it is, and reporting folk who end up carrying 50 weapons is still an option.
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Riev

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #55 on: September 25, 2017, 09:26:40 AM »
Gonna just point out that these 'solutions' seem to make problems where there were none.

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Grapes

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #56 on: September 25, 2017, 03:19:37 PM »
Agreed, disarm is already pretty brutal, and when the super-gith RNG abomination creeps up on you, or Dumb F--in' Runner the RNG gods blessed with confounding strength and dexterity in the sparring ring, you tend to discover just how much.
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Harmless

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #57 on: September 26, 2017, 02:11:45 PM »
I can understand a distaste of small tweaks to a system that already works pretty well, but I have thought for a long while that sheathes and the like really only carry a cosmetic quality without many coded bonuses (exceptions palming knives from sheaths with appropriate skill), and it irked me that I can just carry my 2-handed weapons in my inventory and easily, with no apparent penalty, swap to the next one with my high-strength warriors and just be wielding another full-sized weapon off the bat. Of course I never really did this, but I DID do it with a shield, which was weird. Why can't I 'draw' my shield from my back?
 Maybe I should be able to, but get a AO penalty. Or maybe holding your shield from inventory should cost an AO. Otherwise, it codedly benefits you to hold a shield in your inventory, which just doesn't seem right when I'm sure people just wore the fucking things on a strap or on their back.

If something irks me, it's generally because I don't think it meets my expectations for an immersive gaming experience. Things don't have to be realistic, but they should have logic to them, and I like combat most when every decision made has pros and cons. Finding out that the code better supports you if you do X every time is usually not a very interesting code mechanic.

Therefore I still like the idea of penalizing equipping items from inventory, be it with an AO or a greater delay or whatever is felt is most balanced by staff. I want wearing my weapons in sheaths and straps as well as on my belt to be useful.
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 02:16:13 PM by Harmless »
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Molten Heart

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #58 on: September 26, 2017, 02:45:09 PM »
I'm okay with people wielding things from their inventory. It shouldn't be the standard but sometimes it's the best way because the coders don't think of everything. Sometimes rather than making the code define every aspect of the game it's fun to be allowed to use our own creativity to do things the coders may not have thought of and allowed for.

If a problem situation arises where abuse is involved, I'm okay with referring it to staff trough a player complaint or what have you, so staff can handle the situation to the level staff feels is appropriate.

HavokBlue

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #59 on: September 26, 2017, 04:43:09 PM »
I don't know if it's been mentioned yet but limiting weapon carrying to open hands would make playing a Salarri/crafter/merchant/sergeant/anyone-who-wants-the-barracks-to-stay-neat very difficult.
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lostinspace

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #60 on: September 27, 2017, 04:27:14 PM »
II can just carry my 2-handed weapons in my inventory and easily, with no apparent penalty, swap to the next one with my high-strength warriors and just be wielding another full-sized weapon off the bat.

In my experience items in inventory incur a higher weight penalty than those equiped/in equiped sheaths.

Although for my higher strength characters, the penalty was marginal.
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Riev

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #61 on: September 28, 2017, 12:42:27 PM »
II can just carry my 2-handed weapons in my inventory and easily, with no apparent penalty, swap to the next one with my high-strength warriors and just be wielding another full-sized weapon off the bat.

In my experience items in inventory incur a higher weight penalty than those equiped/in equiped sheaths.

Although for my higher strength characters, the penalty was marginal.

Especially considering the game doesn't care about 20 stone vs 30 stone, unless it brings you to a different encumbrance category.

Would people be complaining if there was code that called the "not while fighting" when trying to wield/ep/es/hold anything while fighting? Would THAT be going too far?
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evilcabbage

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #62 on: September 28, 2017, 01:03:44 PM »
way too far
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Harmless

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #63 on: September 28, 2017, 02:03:57 PM »
I'm okay with people wielding things from their inventory. It shouldn't be the standard but sometimes it's the best way because the coders don't think of everything. Sometimes rather than making the code define every aspect of the game it's fun to be allowed to use our own creativity to do things the coders may not have thought of and allowed for.

If a problem situation arises where abuse is involved, I'm okay with referring it to staff trough a player complaint or what have you, so staff can handle the situation to the level staff feels is appropriate.

Hey, I know this is a RPI, and I love arm still despite..well, RL mainly becoming a problem for its proper enjoyment, but I like to discuss possible improvements to all the code in the game. Moreover, having played combative roles so many times, it is more enjoyable as the system is modified and tweaked. I have generally appreciated the many tweaks to combat code that have been made, some of which did come up in discussion here before being modified. I have no huge investment in this particular change, really, because as is the combat system has worked well for years and still does. I like sharing my two sids for what they're worth.
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The7DeadlyVenomz

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Re: Weapons in your inventory
« Reply #64 on: October 11, 2017, 12:45:49 AM »
... uh, why not just add the same delay for ep/es weapon as you do for drawing it? The code knows whether its a weapon or not.
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