Author Topic: Attention Walmart Shoppers;  (Read 1177 times)

Grapes

  • Posts: 161
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2017, 08:13:14 PM »
Simple solution.

Get two merchants. One on-peak. One off-peak.

If you cant catch at least one of them then thats your problem at that point, get a friend to get your order for you.

Oh I remember those days. Much fun.
Lord Templar Month-Away-From-Being-A-Red-Robe wants a particular diamond necklace. Needs to be ordered, not a stock item, and at the time, not craftable. So you order it. You know it'll probably be around 4 days before it shows up, because your staffer is amazing and loads shit up like a fucking boss.

So on the 5th day, you go to the warehouse to check the NPC merchant to see if it's loaded up yet. You don't see it. But you also know that it's not good manners to make a stink when it's only been 5 RL days since you requested something. So you wait another week. Still - nothing.

Then, Almost-Red finds your mind, asking wtf is your problem and why doesn't he have his necklace. You tell him it hasn't shown up yet from the Master Crafters, they're probably just backed up with special orders for the upcoming festival. He now wants to know why Junior Newble Noble Amos is now in possession of the EXACT SAME NECKLACE that he ordered two weeks ago, when Amos only showed up for public service a week ago?

That's when you find out that Malik, the night-Kadian, who you never met since you don't play off-peak, sold the necklace YOU special ordered, to the 1-week-new noble and didn't think to mention it to anyone, since it was just sitting there on the NPC's 400-item list of stuff.

That kind of thing happened a few times. You don't know that it WAS loaded up, and sold by someone else, until the person you ordered it FOR - wants to know why someone else is in possession of it. Meanwhile you're secretly cussing out the staff for being so damned slow, because it's really very rude (I mean that sincerely) to pester the staff every few days for a load-up, and there doesn't seem to be any consistency in "when to drop a line if you don't get the item by [date]" staff-side.

That said -

It'd be really awesome if the staff came up with a more consistent, specific timeline on when it's considered "acceptable" to ask "Is there an ETA on Lord Templar Hardnose's fidget spinner?"

Some kind of hard rule on it. Two weeks? 10 RL days? A week? A month? I'm not asking for a hard rule on how long to expect a thing to get loaded. I'm asking how long to wait before it's acceptable to send a reminder request.

It can be made less wonky by utilizing clan boards with a rumors or special order thread, but you're kind of SOL if someone doesn't check it or forgets. Also, unsure how things were whenever you experienced these incidents.
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1246
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2017, 08:17:56 PM »
I understand how frustrating that situation is, dont get me wrong.

Its also a thing that happened IC and should be handled IC, even though, as you said the two merchants have never met. Thats one of those things where clan-boards. And also an irate templar can go a long, long way.

Still, the solution of two merchants is better than just about anything else, its how Clans like the T'zai Byn should be run, one guy doing peak, and one guy doing off-peak, which is how it was going for a little while a while ago.

WithSprinkles

  • Posts: 315
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2017, 08:24:34 PM »
We had a policy when I was working in the warehouses that if you didn't order it, keep your mitts off unless you asked everyone who had access to the warehouse if it belonged to them first. Only after THAT, was anything up for grabs. Only snatch up things that had been specifically been loaded for YOU.

Because.. you know.. that's a good way to get cut and I'm not being cute when I say that. Get cut fast if it becomes a habit.


I've seen three people dance around each other in a warehouse with no issues. (shrugs)
"Let's get started! Ready, Steady, Go!" - L'Arc~en~Ciel

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1246
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2017, 08:38:10 PM »
See, entire problem solved, if you touch what isnt yours, expect a good knifing in the hand.

Grapes

  • Posts: 161
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2017, 09:01:53 PM »
Word to the wise, one simply does not fuck around with Merchant Big Worm's money.
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7490
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2017, 09:23:46 PM »
See, entire problem solved, if you touch what isnt yours, expect a good knifing in the hand.

Er, no, doesn't work that way. That's not how GMH NPCs work. GMH NPCs don't load up ONLY things that PCs have specifically ordered. MOST of what's loaded on them are up for grabs.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

WithSprinkles

  • Posts: 315
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #31 on: September 01, 2017, 09:37:08 PM »
It's all in the general arena, yeah, but when I was working for one, I knew exactly what had been loaded for me specifically. If it wasn't there, I knew who had access to the warehouse and who to talk to (hunt down) ICly. Unless things have very recently changed, I know one merchant house that worked that way, at least. The things in the warehouse are NOT up for grabs and people before your new merchant may have plans for what is in there or be storing stuff and if you take it, you will piss them off.

Each GM handles things differently when they take over as far as how often things are loaded, but staff had a pretty good rhythm and timing down with orders in the almost three RL years I was doing it, which is why I started insisting that people try to get on my schedule. It was to give me spare time AND try and make it so I just had to submit the ONE order slip each time.

Edit: Something else I thought of, though there is lots more going on behind the scenes that folk who haven't played GMH merchants don't know. One thing that is bad about taking from the warehouse that could get someone to want to hurt you is.. if you see a nice item and you think.. WOW, I could make a GREAT sale from that! SOMETIMES, a GM might have refused to even load that for someone else unless they paid for it first. Either in coins or, more likely in materials. So if you see that amazeballs fidget spinner and it looks really neat and pretty, think before you grab, newbie Merchant because it really, really, REALLY belongs to someone else.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2017, 10:31:13 PM by WithSprinkles »
"Let's get started! Ready, Steady, Go!" - L'Arc~en~Ciel

senseofeven

  • Posts: 332
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2017, 01:17:53 AM »
Quite a lot of good points and I am glad there are players who understand that ordered items for your semi-custom/in the database items are at the mercy of a staffer who is free to dig out the item and load it in game for you. I do notice a lot of players who bug merchants PC of where is their item and icly complain over an ooc thing.

Now what if the merchant actually tried to suggest alternatives that is available yet the consumer PC out rightly refused because they just want the new shiny thing? Is that the fault still of the merchant?

There is a couple of unfair and helplessness that a merchant pc or any GMH might experience and only wish that players behind the consumer PC understand and don't piss off the player behind the merchant that is trying to help everyone to get their loot. Is that very difficult?

Is that justified because you signed up to be a merchant, this is what you must do because you are playing such a role?

Like I said, there is a lot of RL consumerism that is seeping into the game and becoming the "expectations" of the GMH. To me, if I was a commoner who had the money to place an order with A GMH then I'm more than rabble but less of a noble which would make me a rich person. If I was a noble who have multiple orders with Kadius that would feed into my nobles ego because it screams affluent.

So why players getting angsty of their items taking longer to load? Why are there some players who want to "in the name of conflict" annoy the GMH at hand just because? I feel that is pretty poor RP because it based off something beyond the characters control.

Grapes

  • Posts: 161
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #33 on: September 02, 2017, 01:33:41 AM »
TBH, nobody has to sell you a freaking thing. You are one PC, common or noble, in a city full of people wanting things. As a GMH employee, saying "no" to a noble COULD get you in a lot of hot water, but indefinitely delaying their orders with false apologies is not out of the question. There are no rules against lying. Nobody is obligated to do business just because someone else has sid. If people want to get pushy, just be like, um, the distribution center is under siege from gith in the red desert, they want a labor union and are picketing, and the wagon can't just run over them because you want silky drawers and a gem encrusted whip yesterday.

Just clear it with your superiors before resorting to vengeful measures, and all should be ok. Sometimes, you need to remind people that this is Zalanthas, not OOC unicorn and rainbow land. GMHs have a lot of pull, don't stress it, get to it when you get to it, it's just another day, another pile of sid.
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

Veselka

  • Posts: 219
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #34 on: September 02, 2017, 02:38:22 AM »
I've never seen value in custom gear. I don't see any consistency between 'more custom = better gear'. Some of the starter gear seems to be better (combat wise) and more fitting with the theme of the world, especially Allanak Starter Gear.

As far as fancy clothes go, i guess the fancier the better, but do fancy people really need to be defined by their fancy clothes? Looking 'dapper' or 'beautiful' often has more to do with how you are, not how you dress.

Grapes

  • Posts: 161
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #35 on: September 02, 2017, 03:30:05 AM »
I've never seen value in custom gear. I don't see any consistency between 'more custom = better gear'. Some of the starter gear seems to be better (combat wise) and more fitting with the theme of the world, especially Allanak Starter Gear.

As far as fancy clothes go, i guess the fancier the better, but do fancy people really need to be defined by their fancy clothes? Looking 'dapper' or 'beautiful' often has more to do with how you are, not how you dress.

And people forget how gussied up you can get in the Kadian shop in the Bazarr. Shop Smart. Shop S-Mart.
Quote from: Is Friday
If you ever hassle me IC for not playing much that means that I'm going to play even less or I'll forever write you off as a neckbeard chained to his computer. So don't be a dick.

evilcabbage

  • Posts: 1879
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #36 on: September 02, 2017, 03:38:27 AM »
which kadian shop? the fineries or the luxury goods?

because luxury goods can REALLY gussy you up in a big way.
I could give a shit about wholesome.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7490
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #37 on: September 02, 2017, 09:30:49 AM »
Quite a lot of good points and I am glad there are players who understand that ordered items for your semi-custom/in the database items are at the mercy of a staffer who is free to dig out the item and load it in game for you. I do notice a lot of players who bug merchants PC of where is their item and icly complain over an ooc thing.

Now what if the merchant actually tried to suggest alternatives that is available yet the consumer PC out rightly refused because they just want the new shiny thing? Is that the fault still of the merchant?

There is a couple of unfair and helplessness that a merchant pc or any GMH might experience and only wish that players behind the consumer PC understand and don't piss off the player behind the merchant that is trying to help everyone to get their loot. Is that very difficult?

Is that justified because you signed up to be a merchant, this is what you must do because you are playing such a role?

Like I said, there is a lot of RL consumerism that is seeping into the game and becoming the "expectations" of the GMH. To me, if I was a commoner who had the money to place an order with A GMH then I'm more than rabble but less of a noble which would make me a rich person. If I was a noble who have multiple orders with Kadius that would feed into my nobles ego because it screams affluent.

So why players getting angsty of their items taking longer to load? Why are there some players who want to "in the name of conflict" annoy the GMH at hand just because? I feel that is pretty poor RP because it based off something beyond the characters control.

You're running on the assumption that "things people want" are all pricey valueable things that only rich people can afford. This is - categorically untrue. Sometimes people just want something that isn't available that week in the shop's rotation, and the NPC merchant in the warehouse doesn't keep one of every color on its list, and the color you want - is one of those that isn't there. So the PC has to order it. Something as simple and unpretentious and unassuming as a 40-sid blue shirt. Because y'know - you're NOT rich, and you can't afford anything better, but you want something pretty to go with the rest of your outfit.

There's no reason why it -should- have to take weeks to get this thing. Theoretically it's not anything all that fancy. Theoretically, any full-guild crafter can make it. But currently, your clan only has mage-jewelry-subguild crafters, and you, the PC Merchant, happens to be full-guild burglar so you can't make it either. And therefore you have to order it.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

senseofeven

  • Posts: 332
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #38 on: September 02, 2017, 11:20:07 AM »
@ Lizzie,

Yeap that's reasonable but I'm setting the stage up in a controlled environment where there are people who can easily make that 40 sid blue shirt, even so, the bazaar shops do have items that are within that cost. So we are here in this discussion with the setting of high pricey ordered items that would need an OOC coordination with staff to pull out.

If it is craftable, then there's no issue.

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11497
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #39 on: September 02, 2017, 11:25:34 AM »
Here's your IC explanation: the House crafters are busy making more expensive items for more important clients and aren't particularly worried about some 40 sid shirt that some nobody commoner wants.
"Our whole lives are just stories." - Vikings

I get wherever I'm going, I get whatever I need
while my blood's still flowing and my heart still beats

Miradus

  • Posts: 1758
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #40 on: September 02, 2017, 11:31:36 AM »
Why did you go to the fanciest house for your 40 sid blue shirt instead of one of the independent shirtmakers who would have treated you better and probably wouldn't have made you wait?

Oh. Because all the 40 sid indy shirtmakers are in Red Storm pumping out thousands of sid to NPC buyers.


Veselka

  • Posts: 219
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #41 on: September 02, 2017, 11:33:25 AM »
Why did you go to the fanciest house for your 40 sid blue shirt instead of one of the independent shirtmakers who would have treated you better and probably wouldn't have made you wait?

Oh. Because all the 40 sid indy shirtmakers are in Red Storm pumping out thousands of sid to NPC buyers.

This strikes me as a sort of 'anti-vax' news story. Is that even actually remotely true and based in fact, or just idle speculation?

Miradus

  • Posts: 1758
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #42 on: September 02, 2017, 11:43:03 AM »

It's partly true. Yes, you can make bajillions of sid in Red Storm making shirts and undies.

Do any tailors do this? I don't know. Red Storm is almost always empty.

But where are the indies? I know my indie merchants didn't much bother with customer orders because the NPC merchants pay so much more for so much less work. Why should I fuck around with your 40 sid shirt when I can go craft 20 wooden chests and make 5k or more in Luir's? (And that's before haggling).

The economy is borked. Money is a nonfactor when it comes to motivation for any activity. Even for the crafters in the noble houses.

Offer sex, threaten violence, or give a favor if you want your shirt faster.

WithSprinkles

  • Posts: 315
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #43 on: September 02, 2017, 12:14:13 PM »

Tongue in cheek, but sometimes the struggle is real.
"Let's get started! Ready, Steady, Go!" - L'Arc~en~Ciel

flurry

  • Posts: 3312
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #44 on: September 02, 2017, 02:09:07 PM »
I have some thoughts on this based on my two stints as GMH family members as well as some sales duties as another GMH employee.

One of the best aspects of the role is also one of the hardest, which is that there are always demands on your time. There are always things to do and people who need to speak with you. There are also a lot of potential sources of frustration, and I suspect the turnover often results from burnout.

I think it helps to separate the idea of IC responsibilities from OOC responsibilities. IC, your character is expected to make money, though sales, for the GMH. In my experience, on an OOC level, that's not super important to the GMH staff. If you're playing a sponsored GMH family member, you're there to be a PC representative of the house. It's not like your priority is expected to be putting all your effort into being a diligent salesperson for the house, satisfying every would-be PC customer's every need. You can do that if you want, and you might enjoy it, but you don't have to be good at that part of your job.

What I've seen from some other GMH characters is that they can become preoccupied with filling orders or padding the House bank account. I'm not saying that's wrong, at all, but I think there's some comfort in understanding that this is only as important as you make it.

As for criticism, especially about "never being around," I think you have to take this with a huge grain of salt. You need to have thick skin about stuff like this. My first experience as a sponsored GMH role had, almost immediately, a templar fuming at my employees because I was "never around." In reality, our playtimes were just rarely overlapping. After a month or two, my character got transferred to another city, I think largely because of this templar drama brewing because I didn't play at the times he played. That's probably unusual, but it was an illustration to me that perception and reality don't always line up when it comes to playtimes. I think players need to understand that around-the-clock availability isn't realistic.

If I had more time to play these days, I would app for a GMH role again, but with the knowledge that it can be a more stressful role than some others. The presence of GMH characters is good for the game, though, even if they aren't living up to everyone's various, and not always realistic, expectations of them.
Be the change you want to see in Zalanthas.

senseofeven

  • Posts: 332
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #45 on: September 02, 2017, 02:20:25 PM »
@ Tailors making millions of sids in Red Storm -- nerf the coins they make through the sale. Then indie merchants would take care of people wanting commonly crafted items. So there's no need to place an order. A coin would become meaningful again.

In reference of @ flurry's post;

Yep, I think such players who initiate such conflict over something OOC should take a chill pill. :/


Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1870
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #46 on: September 02, 2017, 02:29:39 PM »
@ Tailors making millions of sids in Red Storm -- nerf the coins they make through the sale. Then indie merchants would take care of people wanting commonly crafted items. So there's no need to place an order. A coin would become meaningful again.

Just remove the bank in Red Storm so the tailors there either have to invest their money or sew clothes with bigger pockets to carry it all.

Delirium

  • Helper
  • Posts: 11497
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #47 on: September 02, 2017, 03:38:31 PM »
There is no bank in Red Storm. Or maybe that was your point.
"Our whole lives are just stories." - Vikings

I get wherever I'm going, I get whatever I need
while my blood's still flowing and my heart still beats

Grogerif

  • Posts: 23
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2017, 03:44:04 PM »
Ten years, in RL, ago I looked into a pack a noble handed me to carry, and I saw 5 large in it.  That's the most liquid assets any of my characters has every carried.  But then, I like playing the poor people, and don't often do sponsored roles.  But just letting you know that there are always going to be characters that actually have problems with sid.  Either because they are unaware of the tricks to get more, or that they just ooc don't want to use them.   I like when getting 1 large saved up makes one feel rich. 

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1870
Re: Attention Walmart Shoppers;
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2017, 03:59:51 PM »
There is no bank in Red Storm. Or maybe that was your point.

Are you kidding me?!? I guess I shouldn't have given my money to the guy there claiming to be a banker with the first bank of Red Storm. I should have taken out a loan instead. ;-)

(Yes, Red Storm having no bank was my point all along.)