Author Topic: Whats the deal with locks?  (Read 1125 times)

Jarvis

  • Posts: 86
Whats the deal with locks?
« on: August 04, 2017, 11:21:31 PM »
For around three years I've been among your lovely crowd, but there are things that leave me awake at night with a bottle of whiskey by my side thinking and wondering. And this is simply the only one of them. Its not a complicated question, but one that drives me insane. More specifically, when I roleplay people with lockpicks, I'm always unsure of this.

What the fuck is the deal with locks?
  • Metal is a no-no, what are they made out of?
  • How do they work? Are they pinlocks or turnlocks
  • If they are turnlocks, how do we pick them? If they're pinlocks, what are they made out of seeing as springs are made out of metal?

As you can see, this is a most distressing matter (seriously though, I can't figure this shit out)

So yeah. Whats the deal with locks?
The man puts his tongued, grotesque, translucent groin rig on over his eyes.

Malken

  • Posts: 9045
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2017, 11:28:08 PM »


The first wooden lock was discovered in Persia as Khorsabad in security gate in the palace of Sargon II, who reigned from 722 to 705 B.C. In appearance and operation, it was very similar to this wooden cane-tumbler locks. The pegs at the bit end of the key correspond to the bars, or the tumblers, in the bolt. When inserted, the pegs lifted the tumblers so that the bolt could be retracted and the door or gate could opened.

Something like that I would think.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

Cind

  • Posts: 1297
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2017, 05:54:48 AM »
Burglars are goddamn witches
Look, a petting tregil.  So silky...Feel him.

nauta

  • Posts: 2237
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #3 on: August 05, 2017, 10:30:49 AM »
Burglars are goddamn witches

Nowadays, some are!

You know... what if your apartment become virtual when you weren't logged in?  (I guess that'd be a way of telling if someone was or wasn't logged in.)
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

solera

  • Posts: 1759
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #4 on: August 05, 2017, 05:46:03 PM »
Burglars are goddamn witches

Nowadays, some are!

You know... what if your apartment become virtual when you weren't logged in?  (I guess that'd be a way of telling if someone was or wasn't logged in.)

First thought, I like that idea. Apart from someones, for multi owners. But then. Chasing ooc times seems like a pain in the butt.

Jarvis

  • Posts: 86
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2017, 09:02:50 PM »
Burglars are goddamn witches

Nowadays, some are!

You know... what if your apartment become virtual when you weren't logged in?  (I guess that'd be a way of telling if someone was or wasn't logged in.)

First thought, I like that idea. Apart from someones, for multi owners. But then. Chasing ooc times seems like a pain in the butt.

As someone who plays a thief a lot of times, this'd be a nightmare
The man puts his tongued, grotesque, translucent groin rig on over his eyes.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7508
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2017, 09:30:11 PM »
Even worse -
You rent an apartment. You're not home, but you're logged in when someone breaks into it. You log out.  Your apartment becomes virtual - and - what happens to the guy who's in it? I can think of other scenarios, such as rents expiring on the same day someone else shows up to rent it, or someone else picks the lock and burgles it, and a different person shows up and walks through the opened door - and goes linkdead - then the game crashes - so you're now logged out - the game goes back up - the door is now locked, and the guy logs back in thinking he'll be in an open apartment - but the apartment is virtual since you're not logged in..that actually happened to me when I was renting a place once (except for the virtual part, which would just make things SO much more complicated)..
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Jarvis

  • Posts: 86
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2017, 09:39:57 PM »
It'd be pretty weird having to send a request to staff because my character is in the literal Drov
The man puts his tongued, grotesque, translucent groin rig on over his eyes.

solera

  • Posts: 1759
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #8 on: August 06, 2017, 12:25:20 AM »
Is burglaring out of whack? Does it need to be Fixed? Can it be fixed?

Miradus

  • Posts: 1765
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2017, 08:36:54 AM »
Is burglaring out of whack? Does it need to be Fixed? Can it be fixed?

No, it's fine. It's like pickpockets. When one of them manages to survive all the obstacles and the boredom and get skilled up, they can be very successful and suddenly everyone thinks there's 5,000 pickpockets running around and the game is ruined. When actually it's just one operating in the fishbowl that is Nak.


Lizzie

  • Posts: 7508
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2017, 09:04:12 AM »
Is burglaring out of whack? Does it need to be Fixed? Can it be fixed?

No, it's fine. It's like pickpockets. When one of them manages to survive all the obstacles and the boredom and get skilled up, they can be very successful and suddenly everyone thinks there's 5,000 pickpockets running around and the game is ruined. When actually it's just one operating in the fishbowl that is Nak.

Theoretically [some salt-covered sarcasm here] this is the result of players playing their characters as if they were their main guild, rather than people. Rangers range, warriors beat shit up, merchants craft and sell, burglers burgle, assassins murder, mages cast spells. If you're not happy with that, instead of submitting a player complaint about a specific character, just start a thread and complain about the entire class. Eventually the staff will retcon it and turn it all into subguilds, so you won't be able to play any of those other main guilds anymore, either.[/salt-covered sarcasm]
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Miradus

  • Posts: 1765
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2017, 10:19:48 AM »

Your sarcasm is my very real concern.

A pickpocket or a burglar, played specifically to their skills, can wreak a lot of havoc amongst the materialistic community (i.e. those who want to keep their shit) but they don't add a lot of intrigue.

But one who does that AND with a creative bend towards creating plots is a real fun thing to see.

One of my best characters was a simple pickpocket, and he was absolutely epic in terms of plots, blood, and mayhem. And I rarely ever stuck my hands in someone else's pockets.

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7508
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2017, 10:52:13 AM »

Your sarcasm is my very real concern.

A pickpocket or a burglar, played specifically to their skills, can wreak a lot of havoc amongst the materialistic community (i.e. those who want to keep their shit) but they don't add a lot of intrigue.

But one who does that AND with a creative bend towards creating plots is a real fun thing to see.

One of my best characters was a simple pickpocket, and he was absolutely epic in terms of plots, blood, and mayhem. And I rarely ever stuck my hands in someone else's pockets.

That's why I'd prefer to see individual specific incidents checked by staff, than sweeping changes to entire guilds based on the actions of the few. Yes - playing your coded guild without regard for the virtual world is poor roleplaying. And that should absolutely be addressed. But playing your coded guild - because it's your coded guild and you picked it because you planned on making use of those skills as the coded aspect of your character's background, goals, lifestyle, environment, should be totally acceptable, encouraged, and considered "the point of this being a MUD rather than a MUSH."

I don't think there's anything wrong with lockpicking that needs anyone to nerf it or make it harder. If people really are going around picking locks left and right, robbing entire apartments completely because they play off-peak and no PC is around to stop them, and basically just throwing code into the game without considering that VNPCs are watching, or the desert has lots of sand, or they're trying to hide in the middle of the salt flats with nothing to hide UNDER/BEHIND...or whatever else people do that makes no sense and spits in the face of believability - then that deserves a player complaint. Not a code nerf.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Jarvis

  • Posts: 86
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2017, 03:33:47 PM »
I agree with all of this and all, but I'm genuinely curious on how the locks function in game and the material they're made out of, aswell as keys.
Why? Why not?
The man puts his tongued, grotesque, translucent groin rig on over his eyes.

Molten Heart

  • Posts: 1874
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #14 on: August 07, 2017, 01:54:29 AM »
To some degree I think some suspension of disbelief is required. There are many questions like this:

How can someone use a sword made out of obsidian and not have it shatter when it hits some guys armor when you're in a fight?
How can someone sustain a massive wound to the chest and walk away/not die?
How can someone call upon any kind of magick and cast spells?
How does Nenyuk keep track of everyone in the Known's bank accounts and know that people really are who they say they are?
How do all of the soldiers in the city all know that I tried to steal some schmoe's dagger and now they all want to arrest me?

So there are many more questions like this that exist and many times the best answer is "Just because". It may not be realistic but it's necessary for the game and the setting. Okay, while it may not be necessary, someone just decided it's okay. I wouldn't worry about it too much, but needless to say I'd think that the best locks in the game probably do have metal components in them (just a guess but who knows, all I can do is speculate). The other locks just work because they're just a useful game mechanic that helps further plots somehow. I can understand the desire to know, but for me I'm okay without an explanation, and maybe there is a good one for the locks, and all the other things that seem weird.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 08:59:23 AM by Molten Heart »

Jarvis

  • Posts: 86
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #15 on: August 07, 2017, 03:19:01 AM »
You make a pretty excellent point.  Thank you!
The man puts his tongued, grotesque, translucent groin rig on over his eyes.

valeria

  • Posts: 5555
    • I have a writing blog.
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #16 on: August 07, 2017, 10:34:21 AM »
I always picture the locks as much bigger and more clunky than your average door lock.  Something like this:


Armaddict

  • Posts: 5958
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #17 on: August 07, 2017, 02:06:09 PM »
Oh good lord.

Burglars are fine.  Pickpockets are fine.  Locks are cool and we could certainly change some things about them if we wanted them to be more neato, but that's entirely a 'feature' update and not one of necessity or content creation.
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Kryos

  • Posts: 878
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2017, 01:43:17 PM »
Oh good lord.

Burglars are fine.  Pickpockets are fine.  Locks are cool and we could certainly change some things about them if we wanted them to be more neato, but that's entirely a 'feature' update and not one of necessity or content creation.

I do not agree at all that Burglars and Pickpockets are fine, nor stealth skills.  Not on the macro, design and identity level nor implementation level.  Its a many times beaten dead horse though, and hopefully addressed in upcoming guild changes.

Riev

  • Posts: 4825
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2017, 02:03:13 PM »
I can't... I cant...

every time this topic gets updated, and I see "Whats the deal w-" on the main page, I want so badly for there to be an RP Discussion about the "deal" with caravan food, done in a Seinfeld manner.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Rokal

  • Posts: 412
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #20 on: August 13, 2017, 12:03:58 PM »
Oh good lord.

Burglars are fine.  Pickpockets are fine.  Locks are cool and we could certainly change some things about them if we wanted them to be more neato, but that's entirely a 'feature' update and not one of necessity or content creation.

I do not agree at all that Burglars and Pickpockets are fine, nor stealth skills.  Not on the macro, design and identity level nor implementation level.  Its a many times beaten dead horse though, and hopefully addressed in upcoming guild changes.

Couldn't agree more, a pickpocket was my most longest lived character, after all, and while they're _very good_ at the pickpocket part, they're just way too specialized compared to other current main guilds!

it doesn't help the hair-trigger freak out when someone gets stolen from. You could steal a cheap 20 sid dagger and someone would be trying to call down the fury of the whole city and spreading rumors about a bounty. To me that just shatters any form of immersion in playing a thiefy character.

Armaddict

  • Posts: 5958
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2017, 01:35:11 PM »
Pickpockets and Burglars serve as the single most 'natural' content creators, by nature, for the rest of the game.  Their 'overspecialization' (which isn't really true) literally serves as antagonism to some and ultimate benefit to others purely by skillsets that are both niche and almost completely incomparable (i.e. unfindable) in the mass-created form of the game.

In other words, you're naturally special by virtue of choosing the class alone, and naturally drawn into content just by 'doing what you do'.

Tying in complaints about stealth is not related to burglary, and while stealth could certainly be 'revised', so could just about every other breadth mechanic we have in the game (e.g. combat).  The mechanics of it are in keeping with how the rest of the game works.  The class 'doing what it does' seems to irritate a lot of people, but that's because of some overwhelmingly overemphasized idea that everything that happens to your character that is bad or not 'pleasing' to you, the player, has to be part of some enormous story arc rather than just a side-project in someone else's life where they're surviving and trying to thrive and, perhaps, make a name for themselves to be useful to someone other than you.  There is nothing unthemed or lacking in design for the classes; they're simply doing -exactly- what they were designed for.

That's mostly in response to the idea of virtual apartments/burglary being too easy/they shouldn't be able to do it while I'm not logged in (HOWEVER:  I did submit an idea for a door bar that is turned on from the inside only that prevents the door from being opened even while unlocked, as incentive to actually -live- in your apartment rather than just use it as a storage stop).  That's...just the completely wrong direction in terms of promoting conflicting relationships (again, based around the idea that 'conflict' has to be some long drawn story arc based like a novel.  Go play a MUSH.)

Edited to add:  This is not to say 'NO CHANGE NOTHING', but it is to say that I think some of the reflections on these classes are based solely off of 'That was inconvenient and I didn't like it, make it stop happening because I didn't enjoy it.'  Which is what I consistently get as the underlying drive for discussions about those particular topics.
« Last Edit: August 13, 2017, 01:44:18 PM by Armaddict »
She wasn't doing a thing that I could see, except standing there leaning on the balcony railing, holding the universe together. --J.D. Salinger

Vox

  • Posts: 323
Re: Whats the deal with locks?
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2017, 01:38:47 AM »
Edited to add:  This is not to say 'NO CHANGE NOTHING', but it is to say that I think some of the reflections on these classes are based solely off of 'That was inconvenient and I didn't like it, make it stop happening because I didn't enjoy it.'  Which is what I consistently get as the underlying drive for discussions about those particular topics.

+1