Author Topic: Keeping it IC when possible  (Read 3585 times)

Samoa

  • Posts: 671
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2017, 04:41:38 PM »

An OOC newbie channel would solve a lot of problems. 90% of the time I see an OOC it's newer players needing help or getting the hang of things or feeling the need to apologize for something. They aren't used to the very IC nature of the game yet.

There is an OOC newbie channel, and it's located on the front page of the website with a golden mantis offering help.
<SanveanArmageddon> d00d
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[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?

Samoa

  • Posts: 671
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2017, 04:42:34 PM »
Also: Nothing wrong with a good old OOC whisper now and then.

Code: [Select]
whi newbie (OOCly) What's your number?

But I gotta agree, sometimes working things out in IC terms is more jarring than a simple and judicious OOC.

Also, sorry to just shotgun posts, but yes, there is something wrong with it. It's not using the OOC command. Do not use psi, whisper, tell, or anything else to communicate things OOC. You use the OOC command.
<SanveanArmageddon> d00d
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[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7511
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2017, 05:42:10 PM »
Also: Nothing wrong with a good old OOC whisper now and then.

Code: [Select]
whi newbie (OOCly) What's your number?

But I gotta agree, sometimes working things out in IC terms is more jarring than a simple and judicious OOC.

Also, sorry to just shotgun posts, but yes, there is something wrong with it. It's not using the OOC command. Do not use psi, whisper, tell, or anything else to communicate things OOC. You use the OOC command.

You can't use the OOC command when your non-clan boss is waying you from another part of the game world, asking you to arrange a meeting with a bunch of other people and his player only has a few available login timeframes for the meeting. You don't have access to clan boards - since you're not in a clan that has clan boards. You don't know the player, so you can't PM them. OOC doesn't work remote, and you, the player, need to know what that timeframe is. Tuesdays or Thursdays starting 7, or Saturday any time afternoon - doesn't translate well over the Way, nor should it. This is time for *players* to coordinate a login, to determine *player* availability. Because virtually, our characters don't log out.
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RogueGunslinger

  • Posts: 18786
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2017, 05:44:47 PM »

An OOC newbie channel would solve a lot of problems. 90% of the time I see an OOC it's newer players needing help or getting the hang of things or feeling the need to apologize for something. They aren't used to the very IC nature of the game yet.

There is an OOC newbie channel, and it's located on the front page of the website with a golden mantis offering help.

It's a great tool. It would be even better if it was tied to the in-game client. Have it default to off if you're past your first character if you find the idea bothersome.

nauta

  • Posts: 2243
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2017, 05:51:49 PM »
Along the same theme as OP, you can also try to not break into ooc even when helping newbs.
 Here's what I tend to do if it's clear they don't know the command:

say You might consider -scanning- the horizon for dangers.

say I'd recommend that you -hitch- your mount when you unstable them, and make sure you -rent- that mount back up.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Samoa

  • Posts: 671
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2017, 05:59:24 PM »
Also: Nothing wrong with a good old OOC whisper now and then.

Code: [Select]
whi newbie (OOCly) What's your number?

But I gotta agree, sometimes working things out in IC terms is more jarring than a simple and judicious OOC.

Also, sorry to just shotgun posts, but yes, there is something wrong with it. It's not using the OOC command. Do not use psi, whisper, tell, or anything else to communicate things OOC. You use the OOC command.

You can't use the OOC command when your non-clan boss is waying you from another part of the game world, asking you to arrange a meeting with a bunch of other people and his player only has a few available login timeframes for the meeting. You don't have access to clan boards - since you're not in a clan that has clan boards. You don't know the player, so you can't PM them. OOC doesn't work remote, and you, the player, need to know what that timeframe is. Tuesdays or Thursdays starting 7, or Saturday any time afternoon - doesn't translate well over the Way, nor should it. This is time for *players* to coordinate a login, to determine *player* availability. Because virtually, our characters don't log out.

No clan boards, no PM'ing, and no OOC'ing sounds ideal.
<SanveanArmageddon> d00d
---
[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?

boog

  • Posts: 10500
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2017, 06:45:18 PM »
Sorry. I have kids who routinely break stuff or themselves. My character isn't spacy, so she wouldn't doze off and stare at nothing, and you only get one ooc emergency quit until you log off in a quit room again.

I love keeping shit IC. But i also need a scene to pause if I have to tend to something in real life. I guess if you don't like that, you can opt not to play with me.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
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sleepyhead

  • Posts: 247
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2017, 07:06:29 PM »
I'm not sorry for using gone or ooc. Sometimes I don't have time to come up with an excuse. Sometimes the excuse that does pop into my head is worse than ooc or gone. I would rather see a quick "gone afk" than "I need to stand here and be krath-struck for a while" or "I must rest my mind."

I'm also not sorry for doing ooc psis. I'd use the ooc command if you were in the room with me, but you aren't.

I have seen a couple jarring oocs over the years, and maybe been jarring myself a few times. But telling someone you need to go afk isn't an example of that. If we're in the mood for cracking down, let's crack down on something that actually matters.

Samoa

  • Posts: 671
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2017, 07:26:40 PM »
But telling someone you need to go afk isn't an example of that.

It isn't an example of that to you. You have multiple other responses in this thread with people telling you in clear terms that, yes, they do find that jarring and disruptive.
<SanveanArmageddon> d00d
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[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?

Kialae

  • Publicity Coordinator
  • Posts: 138
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2017, 07:54:07 PM »
If someone is 'abusing' the OOC command in-game, you file a player complaint.

It's kind of like the healthy snack test: if you want to snack on something, but it's not like, celery or something, then you're not hungry, you're just bored. If you want to complain about someone but don't feel like reporting it, it's not a complaint, you're just annoyed about something reasonable.

sleepyhead

  • Posts: 247
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2017, 08:08:10 PM »
Okay. And some people, like me, find "I have to be krath-struck for a while" jarring and disruptive. (Yes, better IC excuses can be made, but often there isn't time.) Since it's a matter of opinion which is worse, maybe we should both just accept that picking one of these things is a necessary evil and sometimes things can't be ideal.

Kankfly

  • Posts: 1201
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2017, 08:17:05 PM »
If someone is 'abusing' the OOC command in-game, you file a player complaint.

It's kind of like the healthy snack test: if you want to snack on something, but it's not like, celery or something, then you're not hungry, you're just bored. If you want to complain about someone but don't feel like reporting it, it's not a complaint, you're just annoyed about something reasonable.

Except, you know, player complaints are taken super seriously, and you don't really want to file a complaint over something like that. I've witnessed worse behavior than that and I haven't filed a player complaint about any of them. At least, I'd file a complaint something like: Omg this guy is stalking me! Staff, help!

Anyway, the point of this thread isn't to complain. I think some people posting here are getting the wrong idea of it. The point of this thread is to discuss OOC usage - what counts as excessive OOC and what doesn't. Obviously, everyone has different ideas on what type of OOC is kosher and what type isn't. So I think it's a good place to discuss this topic.
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Kialae

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2017, 08:20:16 PM »
Sadly, threads like these come and go and have always devolved into elitism and passive-aggressive remarks about how one person's method is superior to another's, and then it eventually gets locked or whittles away into obscurity.

Hauwke

  • Posts: 1342
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2017, 08:31:12 PM »
If you cant handle a little OOC with your IC?
You arent as good a Roleplayer as you think.

If you cant handle staying as IC as possible?
Same thing dude.

You just need to keep it reasonable is all.

Akariel

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 488
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2017, 08:37:03 PM »
If someone is 'abusing' the OOC command in-game, you file a player complaint.

It's kind of like the healthy snack test: if you want to snack on something, but it's not like, celery or something, then you're not hungry, you're just bored. If you want to complain about someone but don't feel like reporting it, it's not a complaint, you're just annoyed about something reasonable.

Except, you know, player complaints are taken super seriously, and you don't really want to file a complaint over something like that. I've witnessed worse behavior than that and I haven't filed a player complaint about any of them. At least, I'd file a complaint something like: Omg this guy is stalking me! Staff, help!

Anyway, the point of this thread isn't to complain. I think some people posting here are getting the wrong idea of it. The point of this thread is to discuss OOC usage - what counts as excessive OOC and what doesn't. Obviously, everyone has different ideas on what type of OOC is kosher and what type isn't. So I think it's a good place to discuss this topic.

If someone is abusing the OOC functions of the game, please do send in a player complaint. Player complaints don't always have to be the end of the world, sometimes we just ask the player kindly to lay off doing something.

ale six

  • Posts: 1222
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2017, 11:09:13 PM »
I always imagined that staff* could see every single ooc command anyone ever said in the whole game world, and would frown on anyone using it too liberally. Sometimes you have to go there! But that rule helps to know when it might feel justified vs. being superfluous.

*You could also replace "staff" with your friendly neighborhood sneaky elf of choice, or whatever, if that's more your thing.

Malken

  • Posts: 9045
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2017, 11:20:15 PM »
When keeping it IC goes wrong

“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

tiptoe

  • Posts: 850
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2017, 09:29:00 AM »
Like several others, I prefer a quick 'AFK' instead of an IC excuse that isn't necessarily IC. The majority of the time, I don't play characters that would randomly space off or slack on duties to sit and do nothing for 10 minutes. So, for me, it's more IC for me as a player to say 'gone 10 min' rather than make up an excuse.

It would be nice if we could completely disconnect from the OOC world. But, we are human after all. We all live in different places and if you're clanned you need access to docs and playtimes of other players and RPTs.

My suggestions for limiting OOC communication regarding 'gone' and logging off:

1. Have an AFK function, rather than gone, where the only information you give is the number of minutes you anticipate being AFK. That way, you don't have to give a jarring excuse or communicate in any way other than how long you're going to be gone.

2. Have a 'GTG' function that works similarly, where you input how many minutes until you need to log off. (this one is less necessary, but might be beneficial for those that want to make it clear they're not skirting duties or giving someone the cold shoulder).


I also would be interested in seeing clan boards and staff announcements separated from the GDB, or also posted to a separate forum where you don't have to access the bulk of the GDB. I think the boards tend to be the most jarring form of OOC communication for me, and I really only read the announcements, non-Arm discussions, and clan boards for the most part. Threads like this I just tend to ignore because they have a tendency to devolve rather quickly (which is sad because they do have merit).

nauta

  • Posts: 2243
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2017, 10:14:29 AM »
What about something like this (in line with OPs suggestion for ideas).  So in this case, you are a minion at attention or whatever and you just HAVE to go, but you don't want to break the scene going on with some silly IC excuse or an OOC.

Code: [Select]
em while remaining at attention, me sort of just blends into the background, becoming one of the virtual soldiers standing at attention in the room.
s (oocly)
quit ooc the roof, the roof, the roof is on fiyah

I dunno if that's /too/ much of a stretch though.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7511
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2017, 11:10:44 AM »
What about something like this (in line with OPs suggestion for ideas).  So in this case, you are a minion at attention or whatever and you just HAVE to go, but you don't want to break the scene going on with some silly IC excuse or an OOC.

Code: [Select]
em while remaining at attention, me sort of just blends into the background, becoming one of the virtual soldiers standing at attention in the room.
[b][u]s (oocly)[/u][/b]
quit ooc the roof, the roof, the roof is on fiyah

I feel that it's better to just ooc gotta go, then quit ooc. Otherwise you're just drawing even more attention to the fact that you're about to log out. I disagree with the idea of using "oocly" as you suggested above in the bold and underlined line. Movement, emotes, talks, says, are all IC activities for your character, not an opportunity to remind everyone that you're being ooc.

I think the Way is pretty much the ONLY exception to that, and that's only because there exists no other way to OOC someone who isn't standing in the same room or in shouting distance as you. And even then - using the way for OOC is awkward, at best. If you -do- determine that you need to use OOC over the Way, just assume that there's at least one mindbender being subjected to your psis. Do you really think it's fair to them, to have an entire ooc conversation in front of them?

I wish there were a way for players to [send] remote oocs to other people in the game, as long as they are already in psionic contact with them.

Basically, I'm suggesting to keep ALL reference to OOC to an absolute minimum, avoid it entirely if you can.
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Dar

  • Posts: 1169
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2017, 11:43:58 AM »
My personal opinion in that as long as OOC keeps to staments, its fine. Its when it turns into a back and forth conversation, does it feel jarring.  But actual statements? I myself am just fine.  Ooc: gtg. Bye. Ooc:the event starts in 2 hours. X pm est.

I personally am fine with that.

boog

  • Posts: 10500
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2017, 12:02:51 PM »
Yep.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
Quote from: Tuannon
There is only one boog.

Samoa

  • Posts: 671
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2017, 01:58:22 PM »
While I am still hardline against OOC being used at all, I could compromise on supporting a targeted OOC command that only the two people involved can see happened - like 'oocto' or something - in hopes that it would result in less visible OOC use in general.
<SanveanArmageddon> d00d
---
[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?

Bushranger

  • Posts: 1789
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2017, 04:19:07 PM »
Keeping it IC when possible
Keeping it IC when possible
Keeping it IC when possible

If you really want to hardline 0% tolerance on any OOC under any circumstances then you're more than welcome to go play alone where no one can ever interact with you. You're more than welcome to also say things like "We will deliver this silk shirt to you in one year, two months and nine days so make sure you are outside the House Dvorak gates at dawn then."  I'm still going to quickly OOC What is that in server time? Thank you.
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Samoa

  • Posts: 671
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2017, 04:40:28 PM »
The helpfile seems to be under the impression that such usage is extraneous and unnecessary:

Quote
Try to use the ooc command as little as possible, preferably never. Imagine what a movie would be like if the actors and actresses kept breaking out of their roles all the time--the movie would be awful.

You're over-exaggerating your example in order to make an intentionally ludicrous mock-up, when I know you've been here plenty long enough to know that that isn't how it works or gets used.

Will it be RL tomorrow? Great. "I'll have your shirt next week."
Will it be an RL week? Also no problem. "I'll have your shirt in a half-month or so, the crafters will need some time for the finer detailing."
Will it be an RL month? Also no issue. "I should have that shirt for you in just about two months or so, we're waiting on some finer dyes to arrive in the warehouse and our crafters are a bit backed up."

Not only have these conventions been in place for as long as both of us have been playing, they're now even outlined in the helpfile for time:

Code: [Select]
          Real Time -> Zalanthan Time 
          10 RL mins      = 1 ZT hour
          1 RL day        = 16 ZT days
          1 RL week       = ~0.5 ZT month
          1 RL month      = ~2 ZT months
          1 RL year       = ~8.5 ZT years
          Zalanthan Time -> Real Time 
          1 ZT hour       = 10 RL mins
          1 ZT day        = 90 RL mins
          1 ZT week       = 16.5 RL hours
          1 ZT month      = ~2 RL weeks
          1 ZT year       = ~43 RL days

They're readily accessible to everyone. If we're going to just shrug our shoulders and let people ignore IC terminology in favour of OOC convenience, why don't we go ahead and soften things up for new players and start renaming all the plants and animals to more-easily-parsed equivalents, too? Do we not do that because it's jarring? This is no different.
<SanveanArmageddon> d00d
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[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?