Author Topic: Keeping it IC when possible  (Read 1290 times)

The Lonely Hunter

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Keeping it IC when possible
« on: August 03, 2017, 10:52:02 PM »
Heya folks!

I just wanted to kick up thoughts and ideas about creative ways to keep something IC instead of having to go OOC. I know that this has been discussed before but how about some fresh thoughts and collaboration.

For example, if you need a 10 minutes RL for something instead of "OOC 10 min quick, need cig break!" how about something like "I need an hour to prepare, pardon me." or "Gimme an' hour to sharpen my blades."?

Ideas, examples, flames?
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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #1 on: August 03, 2017, 10:56:05 PM »
I've seen something similar for when people need to quit - they say they have "gate duty" and such. There seems to be an understanding by the players that sometimes IRL stuff interrupts things. Hence the adoption of the term "krathstruck", too.
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Lizzie

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #2 on: August 03, 2017, 11:02:29 PM »
The OOC/GONE commands are useful but I see them used in a way I personally feel is inappropriate. For instance - I really don't care WHY you are AFK for a moment. The more information you include, the more out of the scene you draw everyone else. Simply "afk a few minutes" suffices.

I'll admit I use the OOC command to say "AFK a few" instead of the GONE command, but with very few coded exceptions, the result is the same. Short and sweet, and hopefully not too scene-wrecking.

If you need to be gone for more than a few minutes, if you're in a place where you can safely log out, I'd rather see you just log out, and log back in when you're done doing whatever you're doing.

I'm more nitpicky about that, than I am about coming up with IC explanations for an OOC situation.
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Kankfly

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #3 on: August 03, 2017, 11:03:55 PM »
I try keeping it as IC as possible.

If I need to handle something RL, 'help time' helps a lot. Since 1 IG hour = 10 RL mins, 1 IG day = 1 RL hour etc, I normally just go: I gotta handle something for an hour/a day/a couple of hours/half a day/a couple of days/etc. Get in touch with you later. Same with logging off.

Then if I get dced from the game, I normally go: Shit, sorry! I went krathstruck! Did you say anything to me? Usually, the other player gets it, and will repeat whatever he/she/it said back at me.

There's moments where you -have- to OOC though, such as when you need to set up time with the other player, or if there's questions about syntax, etc. Otherwise, I keep it as IC as possible.

Sometimes, there are new players to the gamet, so you can always gently remind them to keep the OOCing as little as possible.
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Samoa

  • Posts: 666
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #4 on: August 03, 2017, 11:39:59 PM »
Just don't ooc. Like, at all. Ever. Just pretend the command does not even exist. If someone says, "When are you available (OOC: I'm available 8-10 EST)" you read the time helpfile and you break it down into days and hours.

If someone asks you a question OOC, don't answer it. If someone asks you anything, ignore it.

The only case in which I might make an exception would be IF it was a newbie, AND you were alone with them. Otherwise, point them to helper chat or extract them from an area in which they are around others.

Past that, you can OOC if you are about to skin someone alive and need permission.
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chrisdcoulombe

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #5 on: August 03, 2017, 11:54:51 PM »
I used to keep it super in game, but then I waste a bunch of time explaining myself when I really need to go.   To the point it makes it more jarring than if I just ooc, or gone afk.    "I need to take care of some things, be back in an hour or two."...'What things?'..."You know stuff for the house"...'That can wait.'

I've had lots of in game conversations that went like that.   I still try to keep it ic usually, but it depends on how intrusive the people with me are.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 04:53:23 AM by chrisdcoulombe »
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path

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #6 on: August 04, 2017, 12:03:25 AM »
I agree with Samoa. The less said the better.

Also, to those of you who decide to correct minor typos through OOC, I wish you would not. It just makes you look self conscious and persnickety. Also, I rarely notice the typo until you take the time to point it out.

nauta

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #7 on: August 04, 2017, 12:05:44 AM »
It doesn't bother me one way or the other, but what does bother me is when someone does an IC thing and I'm left wondering if it is code for I have to log out or if they are just ditching my PC.

This isn't a big deal, except when you have situations where you can't ditch.  To that end, I always try to think of some very explicit way of signalling the other player that, yes, I am logging out right now because of RL.

So in the military clans, you have Gate Sarge, who trumps all other PCs.  That's simple.

Shady types I just type 'hide'.

Tribals/elves: it's /mother/ and she wants me home /now/.

More awkward are aides.  I've never thought of a good way of telling my Lord/Lady that I have to leave.  One suggestion was to appeal to another Lord/Lady in the House, but... you know... I'm not /their/ aide.  Maybe I should join the Atrium and find out how to log out as an aide.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

path

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #8 on: August 04, 2017, 12:08:28 AM »
Excusing aides:

One way I've handled that in the past is to come up with a code phrase with the noble through PM on the GDB. So once when I was a whatsit for Fale, I would explain that there was some dramatic gossip I simply had to look into and the noble would swiftly excuse my aide from any social gathering, regardless of circumstance.

Another time I worked with a noble who had children, and we agreed privately that just about any reference to them would be reason to excuse my aide.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 12:11:17 AM by path »

WithSprinkles

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #9 on: August 04, 2017, 12:13:25 AM »
I would think that asking to be excused would work too as a base thing. If they ask why, as an aide, you should have tasks they have set for you, so you could very vaguely refer to having to deal with one of them in some way or some made up thing.
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Kankfly

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #10 on: August 04, 2017, 12:14:48 AM »
Just don't ooc. Like, at all. Ever. Just pretend the command does not even exist. If someone says, "When are you available (OOC: I'm available 8-10 EST)" you read the time helpfile and you break it down into days and hours.

If someone asks you a question OOC, don't answer it. If someone asks you anything, ignore it.

The only case in which I might make an exception would be IF it was a newbie, AND you were alone with them. Otherwise, point them to helper chat or extract them from an area in which they are around others.

Past that, you can OOC if you are about to skin someone alive and need permission.


Actually, for RPTs, I don't think that's a really good idea. I like confirming time OOC just to be sure since time conversion from OOC to IC is hard - especially for someone bad at math like me. If there's something scheduled an RL week from now, and you don't know who is the player playing that character, it will be extremely hard to coordinate.

There are times when you just have to use OOC IG. But how can you tell if it's excessive use of OOC or not?

Here are examples of the excessive use of OOC:

Example One:

ooc I'll brb. I gotta water those plants. Those plants aren't going to water themselves you know! I mean especially the roses. It's so hard to tend roses in winter! Does anyone know any good tips on that? But lololol don't tell me that yet! Let me brb first.

Example Two:

ooc Omg did anyone SEE THAT? It's a BIG GIANT ROC WITH GREEN AND RED FEATHERS! Am I seeing things? Is this a game bug? Seriously am I the only one that sees this thing? What's going on, guys? SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME!

Example Three:

ooc Lol oops I mean the OTHER GUY!

ooc sry not shit, I mean shift***

Example Four:

ooc soz guys, gotta go. nice rping with you guys.


For example one, I'm not saying that typing 'gone afk' or 'ooc afk' is too oocly excessive, but I don't think people are interested in knowing why you're going afk, especially since it's unrelated to IC.

It's sad to say that I've also witnessed example two. If you think it's a bug, the best way to go about it is use the 'bug' command (help bug), wish up, or put in a request to the imms. In the meantime, RP out your PC's reactions, unless someone tells you to cut it out.

Example three can be easily fixed by redoing the emote with the correct spelling/target. Whenever I see 'so and so says out of character', my mind automatically hits the pause button on the RP, and it's now switched to OOC zone. This is just a small thing, but little tweaks like that all contribute to the RP atmosphere. There really isn't anything more jarring than when you are in an intense scene and someone oocs: "LOL! Wrong target/Oops, I mean assassin**" or just plain "loses*".

Example four can be easily translated to IC, like what some have suggested before me. "Going to gate"/"need some rest"/"Wall duty"/etc are all great IC excuses for logging off.

I ruin immershunz.

nauta

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #11 on: August 04, 2017, 12:22:56 AM »
Favorite gone message:

ooc omg guys gtg a tent just flew up onto my roof

then they quit

as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Insigne

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #12 on: August 04, 2017, 01:38:21 AM »
The best IC excuse for AFK-ness is needing to take a nice, long shit.
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Kialae

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #13 on: August 04, 2017, 06:47:48 AM »
If I have to go, I'm OOCing it for the most part. If I try to make an IC excuse that I have to leave I can be held accountable IC for something I can't control OOC.

Miradus

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #14 on: August 04, 2017, 08:44:25 AM »

I don't get hung up about this. And I try not to play repeatedly with people who do get hung up on it. They're going to already freak out when I get caught up in the moment and say something. This game has more than enough roleplay police without the self-appointed ones.

I'm really only going to draw the line if someone wants to spend 20 minutes using OOC to tell me about their dog's birthday party or something.


Riev

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #15 on: August 04, 2017, 09:26:34 AM »
If I have to leave a scene, and its intense/emotional/important (especially behind closed doors), I'm OOCing that I need to leave.

If I'm alone at the bar, I'm not putting in a gone message.

If we're trying to plan time together, I'm going to OOC tomorrow at 8pm. I'm not going to say "ON THIS DAY, BUT IN ONE WEEK, EXCEPT SUBTRACT A DAY OR TWO, AND THEN.. MAYBE AN HOUR AFTER". It sounds stupid, and its more jarring to have to interpret the meaning than get the information you're supposed to have.

This is a game. I have a life that occasionally gets in the way of my playing it. Sometimes I get a phone call, or a sudden meeting, or I'm told we're going out for dinner. I feel I owe it to the people in the scene I'm engaged in to know that I, the player, am leaving. It isn't the PC who got bored, or has things to do, there's nothing to worry on. If I, the player, had the time to continue the PC would still be engaged in the scene.
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valeria

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #16 on: August 04, 2017, 10:51:52 AM »
I mostly try to keep it IC except for dates/times.  Times are that one thing that the work arounds are too complicated, awkward, and open to misinterpretation.  What is "late in the week"?  What is "every third week but once or twice every fourth week early in the week"?
 Does early mean 1 am or 7 am?  It's just too confusing and it kicks me out more trying to pin down details than a brief OOC.

I also can't recall a time that I was ever penalized IC for giving an IC excuse to leave, and I'm pretty sure that most players understand that "urgent business/gotta poo" is just handwavium for having to log out.

 I've found that most people's use of OOC is sparing and doesn't grind my gears.  Typo correction makes me roll my eyes but it doesn't take me out of the game.  Knowing that you're AFK to smoke versus knowing that you're AFK generally doesn't take me out of the game more one way than another, but it does give me an idea of how long I can expect you to be gone.  I think most people are pretty responsible about not overly using OOC.  But I find that the tried and true AFK excuses work the best. Krathstruck, wall duty, dizzy a minute, etc.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 10:53:45 AM by valeria »

Riev

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #17 on: August 04, 2017, 10:59:53 AM »
I HAVE been prone to minor OOC conversations, depending on the scene and the comfort level of the characters involved, but sometimes its bordered on unnecessary.

Keeping it simple, is fine, but because of my playstyle and level of immersion, I'm not broken up by someone using an OOC channel for something. Some of you are great at being IN your character, into your thinks and feels and story, and sometimes having to think in OOC terms is jarring. Its a curse, I'm sure.

I honestly don't care whether you care if I'm OOC walking the dog or "gone bathroom". I'm letting you know the time its going to take before I respond, so you don't take time out of YOUR playtime waiting on my ass to finish with RL things. If I'm in an apartment or in a scene where I could reasonably be attacked? I'm going to let them know I'm away from the keyboard for <x> time so I can properly RP the scene when I'm back.

And if someone is using it too much? Just send in a player complaint, and let staff bring it up to them (IN A NICE, CORDIAL MANNER, PLEASE). Staff are great with complaints, and its less of a 'complaint' and more of a "neighborhood watch". We don't need GDB threads complaining about how people use OOC communication.
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valeria

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #18 on: August 04, 2017, 11:02:06 AM »
To be fair to the OP, I don't think this was intended to be a complaint thread, I think it just went that way.

nauta

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2017, 11:16:01 AM »
As for correcting a typo, instead of ooc (which doesn't bother me), you might try just doing something like:

say So there I was with my rock in my hand...
say (coughing into a fist) I meant sock, not rock.

Although for the most part, I leave it alone unless it's a /very/ jarring mistake, more jarring than the correction.

On emotes, I will sometimes redo the whole emote (rarely), and sometimes do:

em said that to ~bob not ~george, obviously
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Riev

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #20 on: August 04, 2017, 11:38:09 AM »
To be fair to the OP, I don't think this was intended to be a complaint thread, I think it just went that way.

Its an early, angry morning. I was just meaning more of "A reminder is great, but if its actually a problem, letting staff have the opportunity to check in is much better than vague-booking".

I also do like Nauta does, if the typo is glaring, or targeting the wrong person/object.
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Yam

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #21 on: August 04, 2017, 03:45:53 PM »
I tend to find contrived excuses for something that's blatantly an OOC issue more jarring than an actual simple OOC.

RogueGunslinger

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #22 on: August 04, 2017, 04:19:57 PM »

An OOC newbie channel would solve a lot of problems. 90% of the time I see an OOC it's newer players needing help or getting the hang of things or feeling the need to apologize for something. They aren't used to the very IC nature of the game yet.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 04:21:59 PM by RogueGunslinger »

nauta

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2017, 04:26:05 PM »
Also: Nothing wrong with a good old OOC whisper now and then.

Code: [Select]
whi newbie (OOCly) What's your number?

But I gotta agree, sometimes working things out in IC terms is more jarring than a simple and judicious OOC.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Samoa

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2017, 04:40:45 PM »
If I wanted to talk to anyone OOC, I'd be in IRC/Discord talking to them OOC. Barring staff members interacting with one another, the in-game is not a vehicle for learning about one another, it's a vehicle for learning about one another's characters.

I have never, in just barely under two decades on and off of playing this game, not even once, seen someone penalised for making up an excuse for having to go.

Furthermore, I don't think 'gone' is appropriate in most cases either. I would only use it if I was (ostensibly) alone and wanted to inform staff. It's jarring and disruptive and I don't want to see it.
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Samoa

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #25 on: August 04, 2017, 04:41:38 PM »

An OOC newbie channel would solve a lot of problems. 90% of the time I see an OOC it's newer players needing help or getting the hang of things or feeling the need to apologize for something. They aren't used to the very IC nature of the game yet.

There is an OOC newbie channel, and it's located on the front page of the website with a golden mantis offering help.
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[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?

Samoa

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2017, 04:42:34 PM »
Also: Nothing wrong with a good old OOC whisper now and then.

Code: [Select]
whi newbie (OOCly) What's your number?

But I gotta agree, sometimes working things out in IC terms is more jarring than a simple and judicious OOC.

Also, sorry to just shotgun posts, but yes, there is something wrong with it. It's not using the OOC command. Do not use psi, whisper, tell, or anything else to communicate things OOC. You use the OOC command.
<SanveanArmageddon> d00d
---
[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?

Lizzie

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2017, 05:42:10 PM »
Also: Nothing wrong with a good old OOC whisper now and then.

Code: [Select]
whi newbie (OOCly) What's your number?

But I gotta agree, sometimes working things out in IC terms is more jarring than a simple and judicious OOC.

Also, sorry to just shotgun posts, but yes, there is something wrong with it. It's not using the OOC command. Do not use psi, whisper, tell, or anything else to communicate things OOC. You use the OOC command.

You can't use the OOC command when your non-clan boss is waying you from another part of the game world, asking you to arrange a meeting with a bunch of other people and his player only has a few available login timeframes for the meeting. You don't have access to clan boards - since you're not in a clan that has clan boards. You don't know the player, so you can't PM them. OOC doesn't work remote, and you, the player, need to know what that timeframe is. Tuesdays or Thursdays starting 7, or Saturday any time afternoon - doesn't translate well over the Way, nor should it. This is time for *players* to coordinate a login, to determine *player* availability. Because virtually, our characters don't log out.
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RogueGunslinger

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2017, 05:44:47 PM »

An OOC newbie channel would solve a lot of problems. 90% of the time I see an OOC it's newer players needing help or getting the hang of things or feeling the need to apologize for something. They aren't used to the very IC nature of the game yet.

There is an OOC newbie channel, and it's located on the front page of the website with a golden mantis offering help.

It's a great tool. It would be even better if it was tied to the in-game client. Have it default to off if you're past your first character if you find the idea bothersome.

nauta

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2017, 05:51:49 PM »
Along the same theme as OP, you can also try to not break into ooc even when helping newbs.
 Here's what I tend to do if it's clear they don't know the command:

say You might consider -scanning- the horizon for dangers.

say I'd recommend that you -hitch- your mount when you unstable them, and make sure you -rent- that mount back up.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Samoa

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2017, 05:59:24 PM »
Also: Nothing wrong with a good old OOC whisper now and then.

Code: [Select]
whi newbie (OOCly) What's your number?

But I gotta agree, sometimes working things out in IC terms is more jarring than a simple and judicious OOC.

Also, sorry to just shotgun posts, but yes, there is something wrong with it. It's not using the OOC command. Do not use psi, whisper, tell, or anything else to communicate things OOC. You use the OOC command.

You can't use the OOC command when your non-clan boss is waying you from another part of the game world, asking you to arrange a meeting with a bunch of other people and his player only has a few available login timeframes for the meeting. You don't have access to clan boards - since you're not in a clan that has clan boards. You don't know the player, so you can't PM them. OOC doesn't work remote, and you, the player, need to know what that timeframe is. Tuesdays or Thursdays starting 7, or Saturday any time afternoon - doesn't translate well over the Way, nor should it. This is time for *players* to coordinate a login, to determine *player* availability. Because virtually, our characters don't log out.

No clan boards, no PM'ing, and no OOC'ing sounds ideal.
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boog

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2017, 06:45:18 PM »
Sorry. I have kids who routinely break stuff or themselves. My character isn't spacy, so she wouldn't doze off and stare at nothing, and you only get one ooc emergency quit until you log off in a quit room again.

I love keeping shit IC. But i also need a scene to pause if I have to tend to something in real life. I guess if you don't like that, you can opt not to play with me.
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sleepyhead

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #32 on: August 04, 2017, 07:06:29 PM »
I'm not sorry for using gone or ooc. Sometimes I don't have time to come up with an excuse. Sometimes the excuse that does pop into my head is worse than ooc or gone. I would rather see a quick "gone afk" than "I need to stand here and be krath-struck for a while" or "I must rest my mind."

I'm also not sorry for doing ooc psis. I'd use the ooc command if you were in the room with me, but you aren't.

I have seen a couple jarring oocs over the years, and maybe been jarring myself a few times. But telling someone you need to go afk isn't an example of that. If we're in the mood for cracking down, let's crack down on something that actually matters.

Samoa

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #33 on: August 04, 2017, 07:26:40 PM »
But telling someone you need to go afk isn't an example of that.

It isn't an example of that to you. You have multiple other responses in this thread with people telling you in clear terms that, yes, they do find that jarring and disruptive.
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Kialae

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #34 on: August 04, 2017, 07:54:07 PM »
If someone is 'abusing' the OOC command in-game, you file a player complaint.

It's kind of like the healthy snack test: if you want to snack on something, but it's not like, celery or something, then you're not hungry, you're just bored. If you want to complain about someone but don't feel like reporting it, it's not a complaint, you're just annoyed about something reasonable.

sleepyhead

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #35 on: August 04, 2017, 08:08:10 PM »
Okay. And some people, like me, find "I have to be krath-struck for a while" jarring and disruptive. (Yes, better IC excuses can be made, but often there isn't time.) Since it's a matter of opinion which is worse, maybe we should both just accept that picking one of these things is a necessary evil and sometimes things can't be ideal.

Kankfly

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #36 on: August 04, 2017, 08:17:05 PM »
If someone is 'abusing' the OOC command in-game, you file a player complaint.

It's kind of like the healthy snack test: if you want to snack on something, but it's not like, celery or something, then you're not hungry, you're just bored. If you want to complain about someone but don't feel like reporting it, it's not a complaint, you're just annoyed about something reasonable.

Except, you know, player complaints are taken super seriously, and you don't really want to file a complaint over something like that. I've witnessed worse behavior than that and I haven't filed a player complaint about any of them. At least, I'd file a complaint something like: Omg this guy is stalking me! Staff, help!

Anyway, the point of this thread isn't to complain. I think some people posting here are getting the wrong idea of it. The point of this thread is to discuss OOC usage - what counts as excessive OOC and what doesn't. Obviously, everyone has different ideas on what type of OOC is kosher and what type isn't. So I think it's a good place to discuss this topic.
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Kialae

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #37 on: August 04, 2017, 08:20:16 PM »
Sadly, threads like these come and go and have always devolved into elitism and passive-aggressive remarks about how one person's method is superior to another's, and then it eventually gets locked or whittles away into obscurity.

Hauwke

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Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #38 on: August 04, 2017, 08:31:12 PM »
If you cant handle a little OOC with your IC?
You arent as good a Roleplayer as you think.

If you cant handle staying as IC as possible?
Same thing dude.

You just need to keep it reasonable is all.

Akariel

  • Storyteller
  • Posts: 434
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #39 on: August 04, 2017, 08:37:03 PM »
If someone is 'abusing' the OOC command in-game, you file a player complaint.

It's kind of like the healthy snack test: if you want to snack on something, but it's not like, celery or something, then you're not hungry, you're just bored. If you want to complain about someone but don't feel like reporting it, it's not a complaint, you're just annoyed about something reasonable.

Except, you know, player complaints are taken super seriously, and you don't really want to file a complaint over something like that. I've witnessed worse behavior than that and I haven't filed a player complaint about any of them. At least, I'd file a complaint something like: Omg this guy is stalking me! Staff, help!

Anyway, the point of this thread isn't to complain. I think some people posting here are getting the wrong idea of it. The point of this thread is to discuss OOC usage - what counts as excessive OOC and what doesn't. Obviously, everyone has different ideas on what type of OOC is kosher and what type isn't. So I think it's a good place to discuss this topic.

If someone is abusing the OOC functions of the game, please do send in a player complaint. Player complaints don't always have to be the end of the world, sometimes we just ask the player kindly to lay off doing something.

ale six

  • Posts: 1222
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #40 on: August 04, 2017, 11:09:13 PM »
I always imagined that staff* could see every single ooc command anyone ever said in the whole game world, and would frown on anyone using it too liberally. Sometimes you have to go there! But that rule helps to know when it might feel justified vs. being superfluous.

*You could also replace "staff" with your friendly neighborhood sneaky elf of choice, or whatever, if that's more your thing.

Malken

  • Posts: 9000
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #41 on: August 04, 2017, 11:20:15 PM »
When keeping it IC goes wrong

“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

tiptoe

  • Posts: 844
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2017, 09:29:00 AM »
Like several others, I prefer a quick 'AFK' instead of an IC excuse that isn't necessarily IC. The majority of the time, I don't play characters that would randomly space off or slack on duties to sit and do nothing for 10 minutes. So, for me, it's more IC for me as a player to say 'gone 10 min' rather than make up an excuse.

It would be nice if we could completely disconnect from the OOC world. But, we are human after all. We all live in different places and if you're clanned you need access to docs and playtimes of other players and RPTs.

My suggestions for limiting OOC communication regarding 'gone' and logging off:

1. Have an AFK function, rather than gone, where the only information you give is the number of minutes you anticipate being AFK. That way, you don't have to give a jarring excuse or communicate in any way other than how long you're going to be gone.

2. Have a 'GTG' function that works similarly, where you input how many minutes until you need to log off. (this one is less necessary, but might be beneficial for those that want to make it clear they're not skirting duties or giving someone the cold shoulder).


I also would be interested in seeing clan boards and staff announcements separated from the GDB, or also posted to a separate forum where you don't have to access the bulk of the GDB. I think the boards tend to be the most jarring form of OOC communication for me, and I really only read the announcements, non-Arm discussions, and clan boards for the most part. Threads like this I just tend to ignore because they have a tendency to devolve rather quickly (which is sad because they do have merit).

nauta

  • Posts: 2147
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2017, 10:14:29 AM »
What about something like this (in line with OPs suggestion for ideas).  So in this case, you are a minion at attention or whatever and you just HAVE to go, but you don't want to break the scene going on with some silly IC excuse or an OOC.

Code: [Select]
em while remaining at attention, me sort of just blends into the background, becoming one of the virtual soldiers standing at attention in the room.
s (oocly)
quit ooc the roof, the roof, the roof is on fiyah

I dunno if that's /too/ much of a stretch though.
as IF you didn't just have them unconscious, naked, and helpless in the street 4 minutes ago

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7409
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #44 on: August 05, 2017, 11:10:44 AM »
What about something like this (in line with OPs suggestion for ideas).  So in this case, you are a minion at attention or whatever and you just HAVE to go, but you don't want to break the scene going on with some silly IC excuse or an OOC.

Code: [Select]
em while remaining at attention, me sort of just blends into the background, becoming one of the virtual soldiers standing at attention in the room.
[b][u]s (oocly)[/u][/b]
quit ooc the roof, the roof, the roof is on fiyah

I feel that it's better to just ooc gotta go, then quit ooc. Otherwise you're just drawing even more attention to the fact that you're about to log out. I disagree with the idea of using "oocly" as you suggested above in the bold and underlined line. Movement, emotes, talks, says, are all IC activities for your character, not an opportunity to remind everyone that you're being ooc.

I think the Way is pretty much the ONLY exception to that, and that's only because there exists no other way to OOC someone who isn't standing in the same room or in shouting distance as you. And even then - using the way for OOC is awkward, at best. If you -do- determine that you need to use OOC over the Way, just assume that there's at least one mindbender being subjected to your psis. Do you really think it's fair to them, to have an entire ooc conversation in front of them?

I wish there were a way for players to [send] remote oocs to other people in the game, as long as they are already in psionic contact with them.

Basically, I'm suggesting to keep ALL reference to OOC to an absolute minimum, avoid it entirely if you can.
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Dar

  • Posts: 1136
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #45 on: August 05, 2017, 11:43:58 AM »
My personal opinion in that as long as OOC keeps to staments, its fine. Its when it turns into a back and forth conversation, does it feel jarring.  But actual statements? I myself am just fine.  Ooc: gtg. Bye. Ooc:the event starts in 2 hours. X pm est.

I personally am fine with that.

boog

  • Posts: 10407
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #46 on: August 05, 2017, 12:02:51 PM »
Yep.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
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Samoa

  • Posts: 666
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #47 on: August 05, 2017, 01:58:22 PM »
While I am still hardline against OOC being used at all, I could compromise on supporting a targeted OOC command that only the two people involved can see happened - like 'oocto' or something - in hopes that it would result in less visible OOC use in general.
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---
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Bushranger

  • Posts: 1773
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #48 on: August 05, 2017, 04:19:07 PM »
Keeping it IC when possible
Keeping it IC when possible
Keeping it IC when possible

If you really want to hardline 0% tolerance on any OOC under any circumstances then you're more than welcome to go play alone where no one can ever interact with you. You're more than welcome to also say things like "We will deliver this silk shirt to you in one year, two months and nine days so make sure you are outside the House Dvorak gates at dawn then."  I'm still going to quickly OOC What is that in server time? Thank you.
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Samoa

  • Posts: 666
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #49 on: August 05, 2017, 04:40:28 PM »
The helpfile seems to be under the impression that such usage is extraneous and unnecessary:

Quote
Try to use the ooc command as little as possible, preferably never. Imagine what a movie would be like if the actors and actresses kept breaking out of their roles all the time--the movie would be awful.

You're over-exaggerating your example in order to make an intentionally ludicrous mock-up, when I know you've been here plenty long enough to know that that isn't how it works or gets used.

Will it be RL tomorrow? Great. "I'll have your shirt next week."
Will it be an RL week? Also no problem. "I'll have your shirt in a half-month or so, the crafters will need some time for the finer detailing."
Will it be an RL month? Also no issue. "I should have that shirt for you in just about two months or so, we're waiting on some finer dyes to arrive in the warehouse and our crafters are a bit backed up."

Not only have these conventions been in place for as long as both of us have been playing, they're now even outlined in the helpfile for time:

Code: [Select]
          Real Time -> Zalanthan Time 
          10 RL mins      = 1 ZT hour
          1 RL day        = 16 ZT days
          1 RL week       = ~0.5 ZT month
          1 RL month      = ~2 ZT months
          1 RL year       = ~8.5 ZT years
          Zalanthan Time -> Real Time 
          1 ZT hour       = 10 RL mins
          1 ZT day        = 90 RL mins
          1 ZT week       = 16.5 RL hours
          1 ZT month      = ~2 RL weeks
          1 ZT year       = ~43 RL days

They're readily accessible to everyone. If we're going to just shrug our shoulders and let people ignore IC terminology in favour of OOC convenience, why don't we go ahead and soften things up for new players and start renaming all the plants and animals to more-easily-parsed equivalents, too? Do we not do that because it's jarring? This is no different.
<SanveanArmageddon> d00d
---
[Laeris] (11:52:53 AM): If penicillin started spilling out of your butt, what would you do with it?

Lizzie

  • Posts: 7409
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #50 on: August 05, 2017, 05:04:44 PM »
(ready some time next week, and right this moment it's 9PM pacific time) I'll have your shirt in a half-month or so.
(...except next week I have RL appointments most of the day - however I will be available between 7 & 8 PM that evening) = Oh I can pick it up hm - in a half month, except two days earlier than today, and no later than one day earlier than now.
(can't be logged in during that particular hour to deliver the shirt but the next RL day I'm open): Hm, what about the following week?
(only between noon and 3, pacific time) Uh...actually...
ooc Sunday between noon-3 pacific
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CodeMaster

  • Posts: 1031
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2017, 05:08:09 PM »
The limited use of OOC is one of the things I like most about Arm.  Sometimes people use it unnecessarily, but I figure they just don't know better.  Here's my opinion on some of the OOC's I've seen in game:

(names removed to protect the innocent)

Code: [Select]
"can't use speach in emotes here,  :)"
"Use "say" or "tell" for speech. You can yse Say (emote stuff here) to say stuff

This stuff is obviously newbie help.  Often it can't be helped and shouldn' tbe discouraged.  But when I'm with newbies who are screwing up and I'm in a position where I can give OOC help, I try to pull them out of the room to cut off the disruptions.  ("Hey, come here a second.")  My use of OOC went through the roof in leadership roles, but I always tried to insulate other clannies from it when possible.

Code: [Select]
"you be around later?  I need to log for a couple of hours"
Stuff like this you can wrap with IC language.  Be consistent with it and people will figure out what you mean.  "You going to be around later?  I need to do X for a couple days."

Code: [Select]
"Gotta plug in my comp one sec."
"Just a moment."

If it's going to be super brief, you could emote bending down and retying a bootlace or something.  No OOC required.

If it'll be a couple minutes, sparing use of gone works.  But I prefer to use gone when I'm alone but someone could stumble upon me (like I'm idling in a tavern or something).

Code: [Select]
"FYI I'm pretty much gone until June 17th."
This one is trickier, but my call is to come up with an IC excuse (taking care of a sick relative or something) and then say, OOC, 'gone until June 17th'.

Code: [Select]
"urgh lag"
"think I should log or want to keep playing?"

I don't know if it's still the case, but the T'zai Byn docs used to say if you're lagging, then to say you've got a headache or a sore foot or something. Some people don't like conflating IC with OOC in this way, but I prefer it.

Code: [Select]
"omg my computer battery died!"
I sympathize, but I don't need to know why you lost link (or why it looks like you just reconnected).  Simply ICly blinking yourself back to awareness gives us a place from which to pick things back up.

Code: [Select]
"I forget the syntax it's make tube spice papers or some crud but I can't
Try to check the help files before you OOC -- even veterans get this one wrong.  Or, come up with an IC excuse: "I can't do this right now.  Can you roll me a smoke?"

Code: [Select]
"sorry for ooc"
The beatings will continue until morale improves.

Code: [Select]
"OOPS redo."
"directed at ~lissome"
"*too"
"*we're"

If you did a typo but what you emoted is still comprehensible, don't bother.  I understand!

In situations where you mistargeted and it makes no sense, it can be less disruptive to just splice in the correction and do it again(without the OOC).  Or, if you just nodded to the wrong person, you could emote actually shook %black.haired.man hand)

Code: [Select]
"Stupid pickpockets don't start with <skill>. Its like they just...
Totally unnecessary!  Everyone knows not to do this.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 05:10:40 PM by CodeMaster »
The neat, clean-shaven man sends you a telepathic message:
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boog

  • Posts: 10407
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2017, 05:19:44 PM »
Oh. I loathe the typo fixes in OOC. Or the mistargets. Just redo the emote or something. Please.

Anyway, again, I'm gonna use gone. It's just easier to pause a scene, imho, if I'm only going to be less than a few minutes.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2017, 05:21:24 PM by boog »
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
Quote from: Tuannon
There is only one boog.

Veselka

  • Posts: 59
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2017, 05:42:53 PM »
Oh I guess a lot of posts happened. Never mind.

Unoei

  • Posts: 21
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #54 on: August 06, 2017, 12:52:57 AM »
I feel terrible because I've done a few of these recently.  I promise to do better, folks!
Collect as precious pearls the words of the wise and virtuous. –Abd-el-Kadar

FamousAmos

  • Posts: 159
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #55 on: August 06, 2017, 02:11:40 AM »
Yeah I use OOC when I make a terrible typo. Or in confusing cases when mis-targeted, or when a newbie has no idea what they're doing. And to make OOC appointments. I have little time to play so I'd rather not try to decipher.

And I use the 'gone' command.

I don't feel bad or guilty about using them. They're there for a reason.

Synthesis

  • Posts: 9365
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #56 on: August 06, 2017, 11:27:42 AM »
I feel terrible because I've done a few of these recently.  I promise to do better, folks!

Don't get upset about some folks' pet peeves, dude.

If a Staff member hasn't descended from on high to bitch-slap you about abusing OOC, you're probably well within what is generally deemed reasonable enough.

Some of you guys seriously need to chill.
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FamousAmos

  • Posts: 159
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #57 on: August 06, 2017, 02:23:17 PM »

Some of you guys seriously need to chill.

That.

boog

  • Posts: 10407
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #58 on: August 06, 2017, 02:51:48 PM »
Well, ooc is supposed to be used sparingly. Sparingly isn't when you typo every emote and go to correct it via ooc, lol. For needing to go afk or an ooc factor affecting your ability to be present? I think it's fine.
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
Quote from: Tuannon
There is only one boog.

tapas

  • Posts: 128
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #59 on: August 06, 2017, 04:15:20 PM »
One time I had an extended back and forth with a player IC. Trying to explain that I wouldn't be online in the next 3 days.

Then I realized it was just going to be 2600% easier to ooc it.

boog

  • Posts: 10407
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #60 on: August 06, 2017, 06:09:58 PM »
One time I had an extended back and forth with a player IC. Trying to explain that I wouldn't be online in the next 3 days.

Then I realized it was just going to be 2600% easier to ooc it.

Yeah. Like Lizzie's (I think) example above, sometimes OOCing it if it's going to be complex in game is okay to me.

"I'm going to be away taking care of my mother for a few weeks."
"Oh, I'll come help."

Uhh...
Case: he's more likely to shoot up a mcdonalds for selling secret obama sauce on its big macs
Kismet: didn't see you in GQ homey
BadSkeelz: Whatever you say, Kim Jong Boog
Quote from: Tuannon
There is only one boog.

chrisdcoulombe

  • Posts: 974
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #61 on: August 06, 2017, 07:49:42 PM »
Eats popcorn.
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Hauwke

  • Posts: 1039
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #62 on: August 06, 2017, 09:05:22 PM »
eat popcorn (getting buttery goodness all over his mouth and fingers)

TheGoose

  • Posts: 90
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #63 on: August 07, 2017, 05:13:13 PM »
Personally, I find environments where I can't have OOC banter with other players to be dry and joyless. Everyone likes different things. Avoid players who play ways you don't like I guess, and they'll hopefully do the same.

The Lonely Hunter

  • Posts: 741
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #64 on: August 07, 2017, 06:53:54 PM »
You can't have ooc banter anywhere in Armageddon.

Edit to add:

http://armageddon.org/help/view/OOC

Try to use the ooc command as little as possible, preferably never. Imagine what a movie would be like if the actors and actresses kept breaking out of their roles all the time--the movie would be awful. Never ever use the ooc command to convey IC information. This is looked upon very poorly by staff members.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2017, 06:57:46 PM by The Lonely Hunter »
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Lizzie

  • Posts: 7409
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #65 on: August 07, 2017, 07:01:52 PM »
Personally, I find environments where I can't have OOC banter with other players to be dry and joyless. Everyone likes different things. Avoid players who play ways you don't like I guess, and they'll hopefully do the same.

OOC "banter" is not allowed in Armageddon. It's against the rules, and this game is an RPI, as opposed to a H&S in part because of this rule.
Talia said: Notice to all: Do not mess with Lizzie's GDB. She will cut you.
Delirium said: Notice to all: do not mess with Lizzie's soap. She will cut you.

Riev

  • Posts: 4553
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #66 on: August 08, 2017, 03:12:18 PM »
Personally, I find environments where I can't have OOC banter with other players to be dry and joyless. Everyone likes different things. Avoid players who play ways you don't like I guess, and they'll hopefully do the same.

OOC "banter" is not allowed in Armageddon. It's against the rules, and this game is an RPI, as opposed to a H&S in part because of this rule.

Which is why nothing stops you from communicating OOCly if you like that kind of banter back and forth. Outside of the game.

I've been known to put "too many details" in an OOC away message before, but this is making it sound like a number of people are having full blown conversations in OOC with other PCs in the room. Which if that was the case, its a Player Complaint so staff can gently remind. If its not happening... are we... literally making a mountain out of a displaced rock?
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Malken

  • Posts: 9000
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #67 on: August 08, 2017, 03:19:34 PM »
If its not happening... are we... literally making a mountain out of a displaced rock?

It's the GDB, of course you are.
“When I was a fighting man, the kettle-drums they beat;
The people scattered gold-dust before my horse’s feet;
But now I am a great king, the people hound my track
With poison in my wine-cup, and daggers at my back.”

LucildaHunta

  • Posts: 201
Re: Keeping it IC when possible
« Reply #68 on: August 08, 2017, 03:26:10 PM »
I'd prefer brief ooc or gone messages because things happen. I consider it a courtesy to me as a person whether my pc should be standing around waiting or not. If I get a gone bathroom, I probably should stick around. If I get OOC My son got bit by a dog! I probably should go do something else. I thought it was implied that's what these things are for.

I think players are doing a good job of letting other players know something's up ooc'ly and ic'ly though.
Just like the white winged dove,
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Sounds like she's singing
Oooo,ooo, ooo