Author Topic: IDEA: Nerf Skin  (Read 1535 times)

Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #25 on: August 03, 2017, 02:23:19 PM »
Finished products like belts having a quality value seems like going to far. Having quality variations for raw materials that are otherwise pretty much all identical seems like a good idea. It'd be a lot of work, but it's still a good idea, one that would provide good results with the right implementation.

Currently all diamonds are the same, I don't think there is anything like low grade rubies, or high grade rubies. It'd be a way to make high grade craftables less coming because they'd require a higher quality of raw material which would be more rare.

Well, in that case, I think that'd require adding in new objects for the database, and creating/updating crafting recipes.

I mean, we have "a green stone" and "a polished green stone", and each one belongs in its own crafts.

If you had a craft that required a "high quality" scrab shell... I don't know. Why would you? What makes it high quality? Can it be a craft from an EXISTING scrab shell, where someone skilled in skinning or tanning can 'create' a high quality resource?

It seems we're heading into thread derailment territory. When I find more time I'll work up another thread.

valeria

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2017, 11:12:21 AM »
As the builder who went through every single tool in the game to assign a bunch of the preexisting tools a quality, I can tell you that it was time consuming and tedious.  I would volunteer again if staff needed that done again.  But we have a couple hundred tools and I'd guess around five to seven thousand craft component items, to put that in perspective. Every shell, every stone, every bone,  everywhere.  It would also require some coding, since quality is ONLY an attribute of tool-typed items, and changing all those items to tool items would screw up other aspects.  Ie, you can craft with a slingstone, but you can't sling a tool-typed stone.

Anyway, I'm not digging on the idea, just offering a perspective that it would be a MAJOR undertaking and would require at least some coding.

Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2017, 11:37:23 AM »
As the builder who went through every single tool in the game to assign a bunch of the preexisting tools a quality, I can tell you that it was time consuming and tedious.  I would volunteer again if staff needed that done again.  But we have a couple hundred tools and I'd guess around five to seven thousand craft component items, to put that in perspective. Every shell, every stone, every bone,  everywhere.  It would also require some coding, since quality is ONLY an attribute of tool-typed items, and changing all those items to tool items would screw up other aspects.  Ie, you can craft with a slingstone, but you can't sling a tool-typed stone.

Anyway, I'm not digging on the idea, just offering a perspective that it would be a MAJOR undertaking and would require at least some coding.

The tool change is a good one. It seems to be working out well, I really like it. Thank you for doing the work that the project needed done. It is appreciated.

And yeah, anything worth doing takes some work but think about the end result. If done right, would the work be worth a more complex crafting system?

I think worry about how it could be done is a different problem with management and I'm not suggesting someone would be forced to do the work needed, only if someone likes the idea and wanted to take up the project.

After all, it's not a proposal, just an idea for how things might be better.
« Last Edit: August 04, 2017, 11:48:10 AM by Molten Heart »

Miradus

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #28 on: August 04, 2017, 12:27:22 PM »

Anyway, I'm not digging on the idea, just offering a perspective that it would be a MAJOR undertaking and would require at least some coding.

I get it. I know the base DIKU code and I've coded many muds from scratch. It's a HUGE undertaking both in value assignment and code rewrite.

That said, it'd still be cool.

Riev

  • Posts: 4728
Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #29 on: August 04, 2017, 12:34:13 PM »
I still think I'm more down for crafting a skinned scrab shell into a 'quality' scrab shell with a craft skill that checks skinning. If you fail, the shell wasn't good enough, but if you succeed, you manage to ... I don't know. Cut away any of the rougher, thinner looking areas to create a "lustrous chitinous shell" that now is included in all its own crafts.

It could be time consuming, but a Merchant PC could do all this themselves. Rather than assigning quality to every skinned object in the database, and then expect effects on crafted items.
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WithSprinkles

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #30 on: August 04, 2017, 02:13:04 PM »
I still think I'm more down for crafting a skinned scrab shell into a 'quality' scrab shell with a craft skill that checks skinning. If you fail, the shell wasn't good enough, but if you succeed, you manage to ... I don't know. Cut away any of the rougher, thinner looking areas to create a "lustrous chitinous shell" that now is included in all its own crafts.

It could be time consuming, but a Merchant PC could do all this themselves. Rather than assigning quality to every skinned object in the database, and then expect effects on crafted items.

Rather than hauling kills back to merchant PCs to butcher, processing top tier quality pelts and skins might have been an interesting thing for hunters employed by merchant houses to be able to do. Of course the merchants would still have to tan them, but... Maybe the expert skinning ability would have been something that could even have persisted if hunters left the house. More likely it would have been restricted to a certain way of cutting like "brew" is different than "craft" under the brew and so could be lost if someone bailed, but just tossing out that wild thought. It's moot now. (shrugs)
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Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #31 on: August 04, 2017, 02:32:06 PM »
Its still a valid idea, but it wouldn't have given hunters the 'purpose' you'd think.

I'm still thinking +1 on carcass/resources off skinning, so you can bury the carcass whole if you want just the hide/claws...

If there's too much meat, I say chaltons don't need to drop as much meat as they do, or they should be FAR less aggressive to each other/far less numerous. Its expensive to eat in Allanak, hunters/grebbers provide sustenance at sustainable prices, but since a raw chalton steak and a cooked scrab steak are so similar, may as well eat the one you can get 6 of for no effort.
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Synthesis

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #32 on: August 05, 2017, 03:51:43 AM »
The underlying problem of "lots of junk items lying around" is the fact that these items are, indeed junk (most of the time).  If they were actually valuable (most of the time), they wouldn't be lying there.
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Doublepalli

  • Posts: 256
Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #33 on: August 05, 2017, 01:34:45 PM »
I think Skin is just fine as is. If you have master skinning you should be able to salvage most if not all of a corpse, meat included. Considering meat rots, and you have to eat it's really not so bad.

It becomes a problem when; you are in a clan and get free food.

Hauwke

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #34 on: August 05, 2017, 07:25:45 PM »
Simple solution to that. Cook the food you cut and eat it or spread it around instead of the clan food. Its a thing I do on just about every character that is clanned because it makes sense to do.

Oh you have 15 scrab steaks? Spread the scrab steak love!

edit to add: You can even make a scene out of dinner or breakfast. Probably dinner because you have plenty of time for that, get your guy slaving over a hot oven and such.

Yam

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2017, 04:11:01 PM »
This would have to go in with a buff to cooking to make it so advanced/master chefs still don't drop food in the dust 20+% of the time. Even so, I don't think this would be a very useful change. If you were so inclined you could still go spamhunt the Known. If you were a more restrained hunter, you'd HAVE to overhunt just to keep yourself fed (or make enough money to buy water, etc).

Bottom line, I think this would harm low-playtime players and wouldn't significantly impact high playtime players. It's already ridiculous enough that a moose-sized carru only yields two pieces of meat (which only fill up a PC for a day or two).

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2017, 04:15:39 PM »
It's already ridiculous enough that a moose-sized carru only yields two pieces of meat (which only fill up a PC for a day or two).

This is absolutely not the case. Those two "pieces" of meat end up being enough for like 6 services, which should last you longer than a RL hour and a half.

However, I do agree with the rest of your sentiment. It wouldn't affect the high-playtime "Its morning I should kill ALL the things" people, but the "I have time to play for 2 hours tonight, and my PC can't afford 50 coins for a steak, so I guess a-hunting I will go" will struggle even more.

But I'm still totes behind carcass/skinnables
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Yam

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2017, 04:18:28 PM »
It's already ridiculous enough that a moose-sized carru only yields two pieces of meat (which only fill up a PC for a day or two).

This is absolutely not the case. Those two "pieces" of meat end up being enough for like 6 services, which should last you longer than a RL hour and a half.

Might be misremembering which animal, but some of the big ones definitely don't yield a sane amount of meat. It also depends on what you cook things into.

Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2017, 04:26:35 PM »
Skinning a carru seems to produce much more meat than it has in the past. It's seems like a recent change, in the last year or so (maybe it was a part of the meat project.)

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2017, 04:31:20 PM »
Akariel's MeatCraft project has definitely evened the playing field on a lot of the Northern animals.

I still would rather see skinning be a crafting check on a body in the room/in inventory, but I don't think crafting recipes can have two different outputs (I might be wrong on that). Maybe if skinning gave you a carcass with RELATIVE ease, but then horns/skulls/piles of bones are harder to get at? Or maybe have Carcass Object + a collection of body parts on the side, that THEN needs to be crafted?
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Synthesis

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #40 on: August 08, 2017, 02:46:27 AM »
Akariel's MeatCraft project has definitely evened the playing field on a lot of the Northern animals.

I still would rather see skinning be a crafting check on a body in the room/in inventory, but I don't think crafting recipes can have two different outputs (I might be wrong on that). Maybe if skinning gave you a carcass with RELATIVE ease, but then horns/skulls/piles of bones are harder to get at? Or maybe have Carcass Object + a collection of body parts on the side, that THEN needs to be crafted?

Crafting scrab guts yields 4 different objects, so obviously it's possible.
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I come to the GDB to roleplay being deep and wise.
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Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #41 on: August 08, 2017, 09:14:15 AM »
.... oh god you're right.

I'm so bad at this game.
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Akariel

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #42 on: August 08, 2017, 03:52:55 PM »
The problem with carcass objects is that it would take a literally decade to set everything up and get it approved. Not only would making a new carcass object for every creature be mind-numbingly boring, we can only put a certain amount of crafts up for approval at any one time. I would rather fill my craft tool with new, interesting objects than load it down with a ton of more complex ways to have very similar results (with a time delay) to skinning.

That said, I am all for putting a delay on the skin command and have tried to push for it before - and will push for it again.

Yam

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #43 on: August 08, 2017, 07:06:35 PM »
The problem with carcass objects is that it would take a literally decade to set everything up and get it approved. Not only would making a new carcass object for every creature be mind-numbingly boring, we can only put a certain amount of crafts up for approval at any one time. I would rather fill my craft tool with new, interesting objects than load it down with a ton of more complex ways to have very similar results (with a time delay) to skinning.

That said, I am all for putting a delay on the skin command and have tried to push for it before - and will push for it again.

A sane delay would be great.

Delirium

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #44 on: August 08, 2017, 07:08:18 PM »
The problem with carcass objects is that it would take a literally decade to set everything up and get it approved. Not only would making a new carcass object for every creature be mind-numbingly boring, we can only put a certain amount of crafts up for approval at any one time. I would rather fill my craft tool with new, interesting objects than load it down with a ton of more complex ways to have very similar results (with a time delay) to skinning.

That said, I am all for putting a delay on the skin command and have tried to push for it before - and will push for it again.

A sane delay would be great.

+1, but please make it a -pre- delay so that it can be interrupted if, say, a giant mekillot comes wandering in.
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Yam

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #45 on: August 08, 2017, 07:31:26 PM »
yuuuuuuuuuup

TheGoose

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #46 on: August 09, 2017, 10:20:39 AM »
Could we maybe just not? Does everything have to take a fucking IRL hour? It takes long enough to get around.

valeria

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #47 on: August 09, 2017, 11:03:08 AM »
In an ideal world, there would be a delay between each item you pull off the corpse that depends on what you're pulling off. Before, of course.

Riev

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #48 on: August 09, 2017, 11:30:57 AM »
Could we maybe just not? Does everything have to take a fucking IRL hour? It takes long enough to get around.

Nothing stops you from packing the corpse beforehand, and doing it later, either.

And it doesn't have to be longer than 10-15 seconds. Its just that you can go in and skin corpse x10 in under five seconds, which is pretty ridiculous.
Masks are the Armageddon equivalent of Ed Hardy shirts.

Molten Heart

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Re: IDEA: Nerf Skin
« Reply #49 on: August 09, 2017, 12:13:50 PM »
Skinning could just modify the existing corpse object, leaving data on it about what has and hasn't been skinned, changing the description accordingly.This would mean changing the way skinning works but probably easier than creating a bunch of new objects to be skinned.

I like the idea of a delay for each item skinned, maybe take 2-15 seconds based on the difficulty vs skill level? Maybe size would also be a factor. It's reasonable to think that skinning a mekillot might take a little longer.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 12:15:49 PM by Molten Heart »